Independent Scientology blog Milestone Two attacks critic Chris Shelton

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I knew Tom Martiniano quite well from when he joined staff in Detroit in the seventies and then when he joined the Sea Argh. I left the Sea Argh in 1991 and Tom was still a member.

Tom wasn't a bad guy. He was always very gung ho about Scientology like all of us were when we were in. He just needs to research a little bit more and find out the truth about what he is still gung ho about.

You can always ask him. https://www.facebook.com/tom.martiniano
 

Gib

Crusader
So, I just went over to that blog and read as many of the comments as I could stomach without hurling and all I have to say is that I forgot that people still thought this way. After being out for as long as they have, it takes a huge concerted effort to keep coloring within the lines like that. Holy shit. If it weren't so vindictive it would just be horribly sad. :ohmy: WOW!!!

Here's one of the latest:

"remoteviewed says:July 12, 2014 at 6:03 am

Bravo Tom!

Haven’t had a chance to read all the comments because there are so many insightful responses. So pardon me if I seem redundant here but like you I’ve had a beef with ol’ Chris Shelton and took him on personally when he posted an article and video on the SA Blog.

Too bad Chris is not an isolated case of a former SO Exec calling themselves or being incorrectly labeled a “whistle blower” when in fact they are nothing but carping critics.

Not only that but they *blame* Miscavige for everything that has gone wrong with the Church.
Let’s look at “Blame” in the Technical Dictionary:

BLAME, 1 . it’s simply punishing other bodies. (5904C08) 2 . when one individual assigns cause to another entity, he delivers power to that entity. This assignment may be called blame, the arbitrary election of cause. (DAB, Vol. II, p. 233) 3 . bl e is the negation of your responsibility. You can blame self, that’s the last stage, or you can blame somebody else. That’s an effort not to be responsible. (5112CM28B)

As we can see to a large degree it is negating one’s responsibility but most importantly per definition 2) …he delivers power to that entity.

So basically what I see is that even though they left the Church they continue to flow power to Miscavige.

Just like they did when they were part of the original power push.


Reply"

:omg:

Talk about circular logic. :laugh:

All Chris Shelton is doing is say'in get on your critical thinking hat. :thumbsup:

The fishbowl around these folks is pretty thick.

First, Tom ad homs Chris Shelton (and Tom doesn't even know this, Tom is just applying Hubbard's use of Rhetoric, ad hom),

"ad hominem- attacking the person instead of the argument. The goal is to discredit the argument by discrediting the person advocating the argument. Ad hominem attacks are popular in online discussions, especially when tempers flare. “Well, you’re wrong because you’re clearly an idiot!” That sort of blatant insult is easy to spot. Harder to detect are arguments that go something like, “Well, I don’t believe what Politician X has to say about the tax plan because he has said some absolutely crazy things in the past.” It may be true that Politician X has proven himself to be a nut job on a variety of issues, and this may affect his ethos, but it does not logically disprove what he has to say about the tax plan. He might be wrong on everything but this one issue."

Then Remoteviewed is stuck in Hubbard's use of "Post hoc ergo propter hoc":

"Latin for “after this, therefore because of this.” A fallacy that occurs when someone reaches a conclusion of causation because an event followed another event. Example: “It started to rain after my ice cream cone fell on the ground. Therefore, my ice cream falling on the ground caused it to rain.”

And, of course, they are all stuck in Hubbard's use of "appeal to authority":

"Appeal to authority- concluding an argument is true because a person holding authority asserts it is true. “Doctor [STRIKE]Who[/STRIKE] Hubbard is an expert in quantum physics. If he says time travel is possible, then it must be true!”

reference I'm using:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/05/26/classical-rhetoric-101-logical-fallacies/


I'm :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Chris, your silence on this thread speaks well of you.

The fundies have taken away so much of the church with them it is surprising they haven't taken the "the more we are attacked the more we are winning" belief as well.
Oh wait.
They are doing the attacking. It is only true for them when it is true for them. Got it now.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
I love the conspiracy theory of large corporate dark entities threatened by Scientology that pay to squash it when "they" figure out Scientology provides freedom which will cause the stranglehold of these nefarious groups who are all greedy to lose their criminal monopolies.

If something came along that actually did raise the awareness and set people free Scientology and Scientologists would be the first to brand whatever it was as a suppressive squirrel operation and would do all it could to drive it out of existence.

What would Ron do?
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Okay

We criticized the critics who criticized the critics who speaks in favor of critical thinking!

When do we get paid????
 

TrevAnon

Big List researcher
Xenu damn it! People are getting paid? When do I get my check?

Um...is anyone else's check late this week? Getting just a little nervous over here...

I would appreciate to get the info, can we get paid even though anonymous ???

I'm still waiting for my check.:(

We should be getting time and a half for having to read this stuff. :melodramatic:

Someone get Pfizer on the line! :grouch:

When do we get paid????


I really don't see what the problem is. I have been part of criticizing CO$ and all its derivatives for a few years and I have been paid so much so I can retire in luxury now. And I'm only 46!

:coolwink:


I learn a new world

''astounding''

Like in "Astounding science fiction" :biggrin:

Lana sounds like she needs to get uhhh, you know....

Laid? :biggrin:
 

Jump

Operating teatime
I don't know what you're talking about. :unsure:

parking-tight+space.jpg



Wassup wogs, it was Thursday 1.55pm and I realised I had the number of a card that still $2 of credit on it!

Praise be to Ron :clap:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Chris, your silence on this thread speaks well of you.


I agree.

What bothers me the most about this whole rant is 1) that it was directed specifically at Chris 2) Chris and Tom knew/know each other and worked together and 3) Tom's writing in the comments that PAC Execs (which Chris was one of) were "NCG" and that was "the reason for the failure of AOLA and ASHO".

I don't care about Indies complaining in generalities that exes are scum. They're Scientologists. It's to be expected.

But this thing with Tom regarding Chris comes off as a very personal and very nasty attack against someone he actually knows in real life. Who did nothing to Tom to provoke it.

Not cool at all.
 
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sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree.

What bothers me the most about this whole rant is 1) that it was directed specifically at Chris 2) Chris and Tom knew/know each other and worked together and 3) Tom's writing in the comments that PAC Execs (which Chris was one of) were "NCG" and that was "the reason for the failure of AOLA and ASHO".

I don't care about Indies complaining in generalities that exes are scum. They're Scientologists. It's to be expected.

But this thing with Tom regarding Chris comes off as a very personal and very nasty attack against someone he actually knows in real life. Who did nothing to Tom to provoke it.

Not cool at all.

Very true, not even close to cool.

But, isn't this the typical way that a scientologist fanatic is trained to function? Attack the person, viciously. Distract from the content/issues by using vile cruel personal comments about the individual who dares to challenge, dissect, etc, Hubbard's faulty work. The true believer, fanatic, is unable to enter into respectful discussion or even retain a dignified silence. Unable to see the "big picture", the fanatic must lash out, thrashing and bashing out vitriolic commentary (personal attacks) in an attempt to, somehow, retain/defend their own small twisted reality - which is based on the constructed all-things-Hubbard filtered view of everything (synthetic cult identity).

It is a very regressed way of behaving. Not unlike how young children carry on. They name-call, make nasty comments, etc, instead of entering respectful discussion - or retaining dignified silence.

Chris has challenged/dissected some very core aspects of Hubbard's faulty works. That threatens the hell out of the synthetic construct of the true fanatic. So they lash out.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
I'd like to note that Michael Hobson came to Chris's defense:

https://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/idee-fixe/comment-page-1/#comment-1924

Mike Hobson says:
July 2, 2014 at 1:46 pm

Mr. Martiniano & You All,

Allow me to remind you – without giving offense – of this from the Creed of the Church:

“We of the Church Believe… That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.”

This must apply to dissenters and those who became ARC-Broken after extreme and severe mauling in the Church of (Black) Scientology or we are no better than they.

Efforts to shut people up are not Scientology to my mind.

“Communication is the universal solvent”, somebody once said.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Michael was savaged for it:

https://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/idee-fixe/comment-page-1/#comment-1926

Tom Martiniano says:
July 2, 2014 at 2:51 pm

So what are you saying? That they can utter but I cannot utter on their utterings? Talk to me about this Mr. Hobson.
ML Tom
Reply

Tom Martiniano says:
July 2, 2014 at 3:09 pm

And to add to that, Mr. Hobson, I don’t believe in your airy-fairy kumbaya everybody has a right to natter. Maybe they do, but I am just pointing out to them why they natter. And you’re full of crap pointing out that people have the right to say what they want to say because your comm is a covert attempt to stifle my comm. Here’s the deal: My whole point is this; Get Scientology in use and start helping people or shut up. I have a real disdain for people who sit back in their easy chair on find fault and natter rather than get the show on the road.

I audit daily, and I work at reforming the Phoenix VA along with Senator Mccain and Congresswoman Sinema. I also work with the Wounded Warrior Project, using Scientology, Mr. Hobson. What do you do to make this planet a better place to live?

ML Tom
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Formost says:
July 2, 2014 at 3:21 pm

Hear, hear …
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thetaclear says:
July 2, 2014 at 7:34 pm

Very well said Tom !
I particularly loved this point :

“My whole point is this; Get Scientology in use and start helping people or shut up. “
Reply

Chris Black says:
July 2, 2014 at 4:00 pm

Same goes here, too, Michael. It actually cuts both ways. And while I didn’t get that Tom was trying to shut anybody up, that quote and your comment apply just as well to trying to shut up those who comment on those “ARC-broken” or otherwise hurt individuals that harp on and on about how bad it all was. I think that same somebody had much to say about that, too. More harm is being done to Scientology – not CoS – than good by these people, IMO. Rail against the CoS and DM and the atrocities worked on well-meaning people helping a noble cause, but that’s no justification for running down the old man or his tech and philosophy.

I’ve posted this on Indie Scientology as well, in response to your comment there.
Reply
Chris Black says:
July 2, 2014 at 4:02 pm

Same goes here, too, Michael. It actually cuts both ways. And while I didn’t get that Tom was trying to shut anybody up, that quote and your comment apply just as well to trying to shut up those who comment on those “ARC-broken” or otherwise hurt individuals that harp on and on about how bad it all was. I think that same somebody had much to say about that, too. More harm is being done to Scientology – not CoS – than good by these people, IMO. Rail against the CoS and DM and the atrocities worked on well-meaning people helping a noble cause, but that’s no justification for running down the old man or his tech and philosophy.

I’ve posted this on Indie Scientology FB as well, in response to your post there.
Reply

thetaclear says:
July 2, 2014 at 7:38 pm

” More harm is being done to Scientology – not CoS – than good by these people, IMO. Rail against the CoS and DM and the atrocities worked on well-meaning people helping a noble cause, but that’s no justification for running down the old man or his tech and philosophy ”

Nicely said Chris !!!
Reply

Richard Roberts says:
July 2, 2014 at 6:27 pm

Still trying to enturbulate Hobson? Funny how every group you join you try to stir things up.
Reply

Chris Black says:
July 2, 2014 at 11:13 pm

LOL. Yup, you nailed it, Richard.
Reply
racingintheblood39 says:
July 5, 2014 at 6:58 am

Yep. Michael Hobson and I go back. ( some interesting dramatizations on Marty’s blog..when I still frequented that place.) I heard he was a “nanny” on board the ship? ..That figures.
Reply

Brian says:
July 3, 2014 at 7:01 am

I agree with you Mike Hobsen. It seems to me, calling opinions about Scientology natter and OWs is the same blame and victim game that is prevalent in Scientology.
Instead of hearing your words with respect and simply disagreeing. You are accused of trying to suppress communication.
This is the very reason why exes are blowing off charge by being there and communicating.
Enemies, the need for enemies, the need to fight enemies, is the institutionalization of Ron’s victim complex.
That is truly my heartfelt opinion. Not from OWs or any other tech that deflects responsibility.
Scientology’s acceptance in the world will never happen if opinions about Scientology and it’s founder are relegated to the false dogmatic reasoning of OWs and SPs.
It will simply never happen.
These people are giving their views because they are courageous, needing healing and attempting to warn others.
Reply

Lana M. says:
July 3, 2014 at 7:20 am

Brian, there will be no peace, healing or case gain for any individual if they are unwilling to look at their own responsibilities and eternally trying to lay the blame on others. They can communicate till the cows come home but they will get no as-isness.

This is a Scientology blog and it is frequented by Scientologists who use and win with LRH daily. I too was an executive in the Sea Org and my days are spent applying the tech, not trashing it.

You are no longer a Scientologist and possibly never were. Try moving on Brian and maybe you too can have some peace.

Moderator policy won’t accept trashing the Founder, so consider this yr last warning.

This is our group here and you are well settled in at other locations where your views are shared by others of the same ilk. But not here. You are no enemy but you are certainly no friend.
Reply
Brian says:
July 3, 2014 at 7:30 am

Lana, the case can be made that this natter about the natter is from OWs, missed withholds etc.

He is doing the same thing that he is blaming people for.
That us really my only point.
He is nattering, using the justification of Scientology philosophy to claim to fully understand the motives of people.
And then there is another person on this blog who states”free speech be damned.”
Huston we have a problem.
Reply
thetaclear says:
July 3, 2014 at 8:23 am

Hey Brian, you have some
mis-understanding with the concept of “free speech” man. The way you put it would make it alright the cruel and savage verbal treatment (besides the physical atrocities, of course) the Jews received from Hitler and the whole Nazi Party. It would make it all right the verbal degradation the Afro-American were subjected to after the Civil War for many years to come. And all justified, acording to you, in the name of “free speech” ?

“These people are giving their views because they are courageous, needing healing and attempting to warn others”

Talking about redefinition of words to justify an agenda !!!

Oh man, you really need a lesson on History !!!

The right for free speech has to be coupled with the right not to be falsely accused by others as you guys do with LRH , W/out one iota of proof, by the way, just a bunch of service facky ideas.

The right for free speech has to be coupled with YOUR DUTY to refrain from falsely accusing others and from uttering “facts” that are indeed , generalities and perversions of Truth. Is has to be couple with your DUTY, yes, YOUR DUTY to help others live a better life and to guide them on the path to Truth.
Reply
Jim Logan says:
July 3, 2014 at 9:04 am

Hey Brian,
OK, fundamentally there is a mis-definition, a mistake, a mis-conception with what “natter” actually is. In Scientology it is has a technical meaning. That is, it isn’t just “criticism”, nor opining that something is no good, or poop, or any other pejorative.

Now, this isn’t the place for a thorough study of anything, including this technical point of what is “natter”, Scientologically, but I can provide some material here to differentiate on the area.

The first issue is really definitive:

“This does not say that all things are right and that no criticism anywhere is ever merited. Man is not happy. He is faced with total destruction unless we toughen up our postulates. And the overt act mechanism is simply a sordid game condition man has slipped into without knowing where he was going. So there are rightnesses and wrongnesses in conduct and society and life at large, but random, carping 1.1 criticism when not borne out in fact is only an effort to reduce the size of the target of the overt so that one can live (he hopes) with the overt. Of course to criticise unjustly and lower repute is itself an overt act and so this mechanism is not in fact workable.” HCOB 21 Jan 60, JUSTIFICATION.

Next are a couple of guides for a person to use, when observing behaviors:

“Sometimes pcs who have big overts become highly critical of the auditor and get in a lot of snide comments about the auditor. If the overt causing it is not pulled the pc will get no gains and may even get ARC broken. If the auditor doesn’t realize that such natter always indicates a real overt, when pcs do it, eventually over the years it makes an auditor shy of auditing.

“Auditors buy “critical thoughts” the pc “has had” as real overts, whereas a critical thought is a symptom of an overt, not the overt itself. Under these critical thoughts a real overt lies undetected.

“Also, I love these pcs who “have to get off a withhold about you. Last night Jim said you were awful ……..” An experienced auditor closes the right eye slightly, cocks his head a bit to the left and says, “What have you been doing to me I haven’t known about?” “I thought …..” begins the pc. “The question is”, says the old pro, “What have you been doing to me that I don’t know about. The word is doing. “ And off comes the overt like “I’ve been getting audited by Bessy Squirrel between sessions in the Coffee Shop.”

“Well, some auditors are so “reasonable” they never really learn the mechanism and go on getting criticized and getting no gains on pcs and all that.” HCOB 7 Sept 1964, Issue II, PTPs, OVERTS AND ARC BREAKS.

“The primary error one can make in ARC Break handling is to handle the pc with ARC Break procedure when the pc really has a missed withhold.

“As some auditors dislike pulling withholds (because they run into pcs who use it to carve the auditor up such as “I have a withhold that everybody thinks you are awful ——”) it is easier to confront the idea that a pc has an ARC Break than the idea that the pc has a withhold.

“In case of doubt one meter checks on a withhold to see if it is non-existent (“Am I demanding a withhold you haven’t got?”). If this is the case the TA will blow down. If it isn’t the case the needle and TA remain unchanged. If the pc’s nattery or ARC Breaky condition continues despite finding by-passed charge, then of course it is obviously a withhold.

“ARC Break finding does work. When the pc doesn’t change despite skillful ARC Break handling, locating and indicating, it was a withhold in the first place.

“The hardest pc to handle is the missed withhold pc. They ARC Break but you can’t get the pc out of it. The answer is, the pc had a withhold all the time that is at the bottom of all these ARC Breaks.
“Scientology auditing does not leave the pc in poor condition unless one goofs on ARC Breaks.

“ARC Breaks occur most frequently on people with missed withholds.

“Therefore if a pc can’t be patched up easily or won’t stay patched up on ARC Breaks, there must be basic withholds on the case. One then works hard on withholds with any and all the tools that we’ve got.” HCOB 4 Apr 65, ARC BREAKS AND MISSED WITHHOLDS.

Again, this isn’t a short course in Level II, but you will note two salient features of these materials; not ALL criticism is the symptom of an overt, there is a character to “natter” that one can be aware of in oneself, and others; a primary use of this technical point of “natter” is to help the person get gains.

“Natter” doesn’t do much, save fail to lessen the target of an overt and fail to ease one’s conscience thereby. So, yes, a trained Scientologist uses natter to discern what in the course of human interaction prior to this exact material, was sometimes perplexing.
Reply
Lana M. says:
July 3, 2014 at 9:14 am

Thanks Jim!

https://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2013/08/04/natter/

Reply
Formost says:
July 3, 2014 at 9:53 am

Lana, Jim’s post should be made into another thread topic, so beautifully and well laid out, it’s a special education in it’s own right, and something of a reference should others new to Scientology also have similar misconceptions.
Reply

Lana M. says:
July 3, 2014 at 10:28 am

agreed
smile.png

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thetaclear says:
July 3, 2014 at 11:05 am

I second that !!!
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pazooter says:
July 3, 2014 at 10:19 am

Jim, much impressed by that response. You seem to have a coolness that I lack. I do hope you got through to him with your, IMHO a short course in Level II, but as you also know, “Flying Ruds in Cramming” can be vital in order to accomplish correction. Still, thank you for saying how it is.
Reply

racingintheblood39 says:
July 5, 2014 at 7:08 am

Fab job, drummer extraordinaire! (though probably not much drumming being gigged these days?)
smile.png
At the end of your post, Jim, you mentioned a “trained Scientologist” I believe that right THERE, lays the solution!
Reply

Formost says:
July 3, 2014 at 9:43 am

Seems to me you haven’t much more than a surface understanding of Scientology, as if it were just a discussion topic, not anything that one confronts and applies. Get some training and into the auditor’s chair to get some reality on what is being discussed here.
Reply

Lana M. says:
July 3, 2014 at 9:48 am

Brian,
Please see Jim’s response to your earlier comment — clarifying the technical definition of natter, which is not the same as criticism.
Reply

thetaclear says:
July 3, 2014 at 7:32 am

Amen to that, Lana !!!
Reply
From my perspective as an outsider, the most inexplicable comment directed at Michael is, "Still trying to enturbulate Hobson?" In my experience, Mike has done everything possible to defend, protect and promote Independent Scientology and LRH. If Mike Hobson is too liberal for Milestone Two....
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sigh. The Kool-Aid is strong in these ones. What can be done against it? It's hard to see anything.

If what these people were advocating and practicing really were as wonderful as they think it is, then their whole attitude would simply be right, or at least understandable. If a land were being ravaged by an epidemic disease, and some small team of doctors had an effective vaccine, they would only be right to do everything they could to keep on injecting as many people as possible, regardless of any opposition or criticism whatever. If the group of doctors with the vaccine were fallible humans who also did some bad things, if some of them were even giving out fake vaccine that didn't work, then those would be bad things but they would have nothing to do with the far more important fact that the real vaccine really worked.

Nothing but a removal of the foundation — the belief that "the Tech" really does great things — can shake this house of cards. It is proof against irony, ridicule, humor.

So I suppose it doesn't really do much harm to mock these Milestone Two people for their fanaticism, but I can't really enjoy the game. Of course their fanaticism is ludicrous, if they're basically wrong about Scientology; but if they were right, their strong commitment would instead be admirable. So it's just sad, really. That much commitment could be so much better given to a better cause.

And yet perhaps that's really the point. For how can anyone intelligent enough to produce a website as slick as Milestone Two remain so deluded about the effects of auditing? How can they have failed to notice, after all their years of commitment, that "the Tech" has never really made a Clear?

Scientology is a role-playing game where you get to play the role of one of those few heroic doctors with the effective vaccine, nobly curing the world despite all opposition. That's exciting. It makes life meaningful. And the Scientology way, where it's mostly pretending, is so much easier than doing it the hard way, for real. You do have to put a lot of work in, to keep yourself distracted, busy with all the procedures, maintaining the cognitive dissonance. But doing any real good in the world is so very much harder. If all you really want is to believe that you're doing wonderful things, then Scientology is a much more workable strategy for achieving that goal than actually doing great things for real. It just needs this really solid commitment to the fantasy. As long as you just keep believing, you're a Level 90 Paladin. Let your faith falter, and suddenly you're just a schmuck who has wasted much of your life on a nasty con game, and not only did you not do anything like the amount of good that you thought you were doing, you may very well even have done more harm than good. A middle-aged Scientologist is walking a high wire. It's a long way down. You really don't want to slip.

I think that's what Milestone Two is really there for. It's a place where high-level Paladins can help each other stay balanced on that thin, high wire, by reassuring each other that the fantasy is real.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Sigh. The Kool-Aid is strong in these ones. What can be done against it? It's hard to see anything.

If what these people were advocating and practicing really were as wonderful as they think it is, then their whole attitude would simply be right, or at least understandable. If a land were being ravaged by an epidemic disease, and some small team of doctors had an effective vaccine, they would only be right to do everything they could to keep on injecting as many people as possible, regardless of any opposition or criticism whatever. If the group of doctors with the vaccine were fallible humans who also did some bad things, if some of them were even giving out fake vaccine that didn't work, then those would be bad things but they would have nothing to do with the far more important fact that the real vaccine really worked.

Nothing but a removal of the foundation — the belief that "the Tech" really does great things — can shake this house of cards. It is proof against irony, ridicule, humor.

So I suppose it doesn't really do much harm to mock these Milestone Two people for their fanaticism, but I can't really enjoy the game. Of course their fanaticism is ludicrous, if they're basically wrong about Scientology; but if they were right, their strong commitment would instead be admirable. So it's just sad, really. That much commitment could be so much better given to a better cause.

And yet perhaps that's really the point. For how can anyone intelligent enough to produce a website as slick as Milestone Two remain so deluded about the effects of auditing? How can they have failed to notice, after all their years of commitment, that "the Tech" has never really made a Clear?

Scientology is a role-playing game where you get to play the role of one of those few heroic doctors with the effective vaccine, nobly curing the world despite all opposition. That's exciting. It makes life meaningful. And the Scientology way, where it's mostly pretending, is so much easier than doing it the hard way, for real. You do have to put a lot of work in, to keep yourself distracted, busy with all the procedures, maintaining the cognitive dissonance. But doing any real good in the world is so very much harder. If all you really want is to believe that you're doing wonderful things, then Scientology is a much more workable strategy for achieving that goal than actually doing great things for real. It just needs this really solid commitment to the fantasy. As long as you just keep believing, you're a Level 90 Paladin. Let your faith falter, and suddenly you're just a schmuck who has wasted much of your life on a nasty con game, and not only did you not do anything like the amount of good that you thought you were doing, you may very well even have done more harm than good. A middle-aged Scientologist is walking a high wire. It's a long way down. You really don't want to slip.

I think that's what Milestone Two is really there for. It's a place where high-level Paladins can help each other stay balanced on that thin, high wire, by reassuring each other that the fantasy is real.


It's a mess, ain't it?

But perhaps it is helpful for me to mention that INSIDE the game of Scientology there are a lot of adrenaline producing gimmicks that closely parallel the thrills people get playing video games, gambling or even "flying" in the cockpit of a flight simulator.

Scientology, like video games, has a "dashboard", control panel and user interface with a lot of bells, buzzers, levers and gauges. The E-Meter is one of those devices which provides a large measure of "suspension of disbelief" that makes it seem like the game is really happening with whiz-bang needles falling against the pin and transcendentally serene "floating needles" and people laughing and "cogniting" left and right. And planet-clearin' too, folks, ya gotta come on down and join us, bring the family!

Scientology is quite good, like a casino, at staging their role playing games and the stakes are real because REAL money is in play at all times. And people seem to be winning extravagant jackpots here and there with lights and sound effects and jubilant winners cashing in their chips for total (financial) freedom.

Yeah, sure it's insane. But where else can you have as much fun as watching a movie star get a "freedom medal of valor" for saving the earth?
 
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Veda

Sponsor
I'd like to note that Michael Hobson came to Chris's defense:

https://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/idee-fixe/comment-page-1/#comment-1924

Michael was savaged for it:

https://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/idee-fixe/comment-page-1/#comment-1926

From my perspective as an outsider, the most inexplicable comment directed at Michael is, "Still trying to enturbulate Hobson?" In my experience, Mike has done everything possible to defend, protect and promote Independent Scientology and LRH. If Mike Hobson is too liberal for Milestone Two....

This is an example of the clash between inhabitants at two different depths of the deceptive Scientological Onion. http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html

Hobs seems to have settled down - for now - comfortably, at Layer One of the Onion: he thinks of Scientology as being about (the re-worked Yogic triad "Bliss, Knowledge, Being") "ARC"; being about (the 1966, concurrent with the establishing of the Guardian's Office, PR piece) "What is Greatness?"; and being about the (for-display wall decoration/accompanying the appearance of Hubbard's 1954 "religion angle") 'Creed of the Church of Scientology."

The Milestone Two people are deeper into the Onion, and there's a natural tension between dwellers at different levels of the deceptive Scientological Onion.

There always has been.

And each unsuspecting person at each level serves a function in the Scientological scheme of things. The well-intentioned, naive, namby-pamby public are needed just as the fixed-glare fanatics are needed.

There's no real reason for it anymore, but the players keep playing anyway, acting out their parts.

Kind of like wind-up toys that keep moving after being abandoned by the kid (Elron) who lost interest in them and went outside to play.

Little Elron is gone, but some of the wind-up toys, slowly winding down, are still moving about.

TOM_TOM_250.jpg
 
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HelluvaHoax!

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This is an example of the clash between inhabitants at two different depths of the deceptive Scientological Onion. http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html

Hobs seems to have settled down - for now - comfortably, at Layer One of the Onion: he thinks of Scientology as being about (the re-worked Yogic triad "Bliss, Knowledge, Being") "ARC"; being about (the 1966, concurrent with the establishing of the Guardian's Office, PR piece) "What is Greatness?"; and being about the (for-display wall decoration/accompanying the appearance of Hubbard's 1954 "religion angle") 'Creed of the Church of Scientology."

The Milestone Two people are deeper into the Onion, and there's a natural tension between dwellers at different levels of the deceptive Scientological Onion.

There always has been.

And each unsuspecting person at each layer serves a function in the Scientological scheme of things. The well-intentioned, naive, namby-pamby public are needed just as the fixed-glare fanatics are needed.

There's no real reason for it anymore, but the players keep playing anyway, acting out their parts.

Kind of like wind-up toys that keeps moving after being abandoned by the kid (Elron) who lost interest in it and went outside to play.

Little Elron is gone, but some of the wind-up toys, slowly winding down, are still moving about.

TOM_TOM_250.jpg



LOL

Scientology is a nicely balanced eco-system but with a slight flaw--a short-lived food chain due to cannibalism.

That's why 99% of their time and effort is spent on recruiting new members. Scientologists euphemistically call it "expansion". Wogs call it dinner.
 

Veda

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LOL

Scientology is a nicely balanced eco-system but with a slight flaw--a short-lived food chain due to cannibalism.

That's why 99% of their time and effort is spent on recruiting new members. Scientologists euphemistically call it "expansion". Wogs call it dinner.

I thinks Hobs is struggling to find a place for himself after Marty Rathbun's Independent Scientology movement & Reformation fizzled with Marty ceasing to be a Scientologist.
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
I knew Tom Martiniano quite well from when he joined staff in Detroit in the seventies and then when he joined the Sea Argh. I left the Sea Argh in 1991 and Tom was still a member. From reading his critique of Chris Shelton it is obvious that he is still a believer in the tech and L Ron Hubbard. I would suggest that he read Bent Corydon's book Madman or Messiah and find out a little bit more about his hero Hubbard.

Tom wasn't a bad guy. He was always very gung ho about Scientology like all of us were when we were in. He just needs to research a little bit more and find out the truth about what he is still gung ho about.

Well....it is time for me to clock out now. I got my forty hours in and need to pick up my check from Eli Lily on Friday. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Like Dean I knew Tom back in the 70s, 80s. He was a likable guy but the koolade he drank apparently has a life time effect. Last time I talked to him was a few years ago I believe he was living in Vegas. I'm sure all his kids and Carol (ex-wife) have disconnected from him. What he spouts today is pretty much how he has been one dedicated fool who is blind to really understanding what Scientology is truly about.

Dean, he has had time enough to research Hubbard and if he hasn't figured this out by now he never will. At least Tom's writings are very amusing and gives us SPs something to laugh/write about. Keep up the good work Tom!
 
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