Independent Scientology Scientologists Back in Comm Responds to Going Clear

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@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Independent Scientology Scientologists Back in Comm Responds to Going Clear.

Note, again, that in Independent Scientology RCS is an acronym for "Radical Church of Scientology," which refers to the corporate Church of Scientology.

A bridge over troubled waters

https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/a-bridge-over-troubled-waters/#more-3338

* * * * * BEGIN QUOTATION * * * * *

The build-up to the much anticipated documentary Going Clear which aired on HBO yesterday (29th March 2015) took on epic proportions. Now that the show has aired, the media feeding frenzy is in full swing.

Certainly this event deserves it’s place among other crucial milestones in “project expose RCS” – right up there with The Truth Rundown and Debbie Cook’s email.

BIC has, up until this point, not joined in the fray.

This has not been due to our indifference – conversely so. In view of how broadly and comprehensively this has been covered by numerous other blogs, facebook groups and other forums, we felt it not necessary to add our voice to the many out there who have done a wonderful job of keeping us updated. We acknowledge all the efforts in this regard.

There has been much speculation about the effect this will have on the Church – the predictions have been wide and varied.

So far the Church has risen to the bait predictably by coming out swinging blindly at all and sundry. It seems they never learned their lesson after the fallout created with their riposte to the Truth Rundown in the form of a Freedom Magazine containing confidential ethics and PC data of those who heroically came out with the truth. These people were utterly denigrated, nullified and branded as a “posse of lunatics”. Many people have repeatedly stated that it was not so much the Truth Rundown as the Church’s reaction to this which got them alarmed. “Where there is smoke, there is fire”. This, together with the Debbie Cook email, ultimately paved the way for yet another mass exodus from the fold.

What has been somewhat troubling is the extreme reaction of some ex-Church members to this saga. The baying for “last blood” accompanied by expressed wishes of the total destruction/decimation of everything to do with LRH, the Church of Scientology and his technology. A “scorched Earth” policy if you will. On the other side of the spectrum sits the Church with an equally troubling (albeit predictable) reaction of defiant negation, absolute refusal to take ANY responsibility and instead playing their old tune of “deny deny deny -attack attack attack”.

We predict that while devastating in the extreme and certainly delivering another few nails in the proverbial RCS coffin, this will not result in the deck of cards suddenly crumbling and we’re not likely to see the Church folding it’s tent any time soon. It is hard to predict exactly what effect this is going to have, and only time will tell as this all unfolds.

Neither of the above stances (hate/attack) will achieve anything other than hate, one for the other. Nothing positive has ever come from the single and bloody-minded intention to “destroy one’s opponent/s entirely”. No peaceful resolution will be met with these attitudes in play. The above views engender only more hate and ultimately a bloody war – as has played out time and time again. This is not a healthy situation.

In a recent blog post, Marty Rathbun described this phenomena thusly:

“Scientology’s instilled ‘ethical’ values can be summed up in two clauses:

Whatever or whoever supports and forwards scientology is good; whatever or whoever detracts from scientology is evil.

Similarly, the anti-scientologists’ creed could read: Whatever or whoever supports and forwards scientology (or, in extreme cases, is even neutral on the subject) is evil; whatever or whoever detracts from or attacks scientology is good.”

_________



That stormy waters lay ahead for everyone connected to this saga is without question.

Unfortunately, this is going to result in an unavoidably negative ripple effect for those SCN’s outside RCS who have acknowledged the corruption within the Church and unequivocally agreed that although this behaviour has no place in today’s world, they still hold the view that “not all is bad”, and have firm belief in the workability in LRH’s tech. These people are working diligently to apply this philosophy to the benefit of themselves and others of like-minded view. Their job is going to be a big tougher now.

To those who are continuing to practice Scientology and stoically refuse to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, now is the time for you to be vigilant and continue flourishing in the face of adversity. By all accounts, the revelations in the HBO documentary are not pretty. Any Independent Group or auditor/practitioner worth their salt would be well advised to watch and confront this show carefully, as well as keep a finger on the pulse of the current media frenzy. You will encounter people who have seen this show or read/heard about it somewhere – and these folk will have some rather uncomfortable questions needing answers. You are going to need a good strategy in place to deal with this.

And then there are those brave souls who have literally put their lives on the line to bring this epic event to fruition. Now, more than ever you are in the cross-hairs of the Church and in danger of further onslaught – like never before. BIC salutes you all. Were it not for you and others who came before you, many people would still be entrapped, blindly oblivious to what has become of the Church under the tyrannical rule of DM and his cohorts.

Which brings us back to the title of this article and the role BIC has to play in this unfolding scene.

Our last few articles have been met with hugely positive response, the last one clocking up 132 published comments. It has been wonderful to see the BIC family engaged in healthy discussion and debate, exchanging of viewpoints and the interchange of ideas with each other.

BIC stands firm in our belief that the solution to all of this is COMMUNICATION. Hence our title “A bridge over troubled waters”. This is not only a “scientology” datum. Yes, LRH posited that “communication is the universal solvent” but many other great leaders have extolled similar views.

A few examples:

“Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding”.- Albert Einstein

“If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner”. - Nelson Mandela

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly”. – Martin Luther King Jr.

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.” – Romain Rolland

“The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” - George Bernard Shaw

“Peace does not mean an absence of conflicts; differences will always be there. Peace means solving these differences through peaceful means; through dialogue, education, knowledge; and through humane ways.” - Dalai Lama XIV



Regardless of what occurs from hereon out, it is a given that Independent Scientology will continue to survive into the future. This is based on the premise that people have been breaking away from the Church and “going it alone” for decades. It has recently been surmised that more auditing and bridge progress is now occurring outside the Church than in.

With this mind, BIC wants to hear our readers’ views on the following:

Should this recent HBO or some similar future event finally result in the ultimate dismantling and destruction of the Corporate Church as it stands today, what positive effects, changes or outcomes would you like to see rising from the smouldering embers?

* * * * * END QUOTATION * * * * *
 

Veda

Sponsor
Independent Scientology Scientologists Back in Comm Responds to Going Clear.

Note, again, that in Independent Scientology RCS is an acronym for "Radical Church of Scientology," which refers to the corporate Church of Scientology.

A bridge over troubled waters

https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/a-bridge-over-troubled-waters/#more-3338

* * * * * BEGIN QUOTATION * * * * *

-snip-

Unfortunately, this is going to result in an unavoidably negative ripple effect for those SCN’s outside RCS who have acknowledged the corruption within the Church and unequivocally agreed that although this behaviour has no place in today’s world, they still hold the view that “not all is bad”, and have firm belief in the workability in LRH’s tech. These people are working diligently to apply this philosophy to the benefit of themselves and others of like-minded view. Their job is going to be a big tougher now.

To those who are continuing to practice Scientology and stoically refuse to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, now is the time for you to be vigilant and continue flourishing in the face of adversity. By all accounts, the revelations in the HBO documentary are not pretty. Any Independent Group or auditor/practitioner worth their salt would be well advised to watch and confront this show carefully, as well as keep a finger on the pulse of the current media frenzy. You will encounter people who have seen this show or read/heard about it somewhere – and these folk will have some rather uncomfortable questions needing answers. You are going to need a good strategy in place to deal with this.

-snip-

* * * * * END QUOTATION * * * * *

Yes, it's going to be harder than ever to convince people that their next endless trillions of years depends on making it through the Wall of Fire with LRH tech.

Bummer. :bigcry:
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, it's going to be harder than ever to convince people that their next endless trillions of years depends on making it through the Wall of Fire with LRH tech.

Bummer. :bigcry:

Yeah that pistol whipping your wife and evading taxes and culling PC folders for blackmail
and breaking into federal buldings stealing files and popping pills and breaking up familys
LRH tech might be a hardsell now :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

imSPecial

Patron with Honors
BIC may think that any ex who [inexplicably] now does not love LRH and his "tech" (not synonymous with the word "technology") is a hater, just like "RCS" is a hater. My answer is, "You know nothing." Has anyone else seen a protracted campaign to disembowel the freezone? I haven't.
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't care for cross posted stuff from BIC because just like Marty Rathbun post
he's not here to answer even the simplest question about what he says and he don't
give a damn what anyone on ESMB thinks or he would be here.so its waste of time and good keyboard strokes :duh:

back to :music::music:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
We predict that while devastating in the extreme and certainly delivering another few nails in the proverbial RCS coffin, this will not result in the deck of cards suddenly crumbling and we’re not likely to see the Church folding it’s tent any time soon. It is hard to predict exactly what effect this is going to have, and only time will tell as this all unfolds.


I actually don't disagree with this.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't care for cross posted stuff from BIC because just like Marty Rathbun post
he's not here to answer even the simplest question about what he says and he don't
give a damn what anyone on ESMB thinks or he would be here.so its waste of time and good keyboard strokes :duh:

back to :music::music:
I like seeing it here bc I would not otherwise. I barely have enough time to read a few threads a day here, most time none :bigcry:.. I miss yall! But this long ass statement from"we" left me with a ton of questions and I almost wrote them out! (But then I got sidetracked) so, thank you EoM for reminding me that the author is not here to answer! :hifive:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
BIC may think that any ex who [inexplicably] now does not love LRH and his "tech" (not synonymous with the word "technology") is a hater, just like "RCS" is a hater. My answer is, "You know nothing." Has anyone else seen a protracted campaign to disembowel the freezone? I haven't.


Serious actions against Ron's Orgs.

10 year legal haseling of Mayo. Edith Vien attacked by lawyers.

https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/osas-war-against-independence/

Then attacks on Marty Rathbun? You been asleep?
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Neither of the above stances (hate/attack) will achieve anything other than hate, one for the other. Nothing positive has ever come from the single and bloody-minded intention to “destroy one’s opponent/s entirely”. No peaceful resolution will be met with these attitudes in play. The above views engender only more hate and ultimately a bloody war – as has played out time and time again. This is not a healthy situation.

I have some agreement with this concept.

You have two sides who each will not rest until the enemy is defeated. Each side believes that good and right is on their side, and each side assigns evil intent to the other side.

We are witnessing polarization and escalation in the two camps.

Is it possible that both sides are a MIX of good and evil? Look at the conflict in the Middle East... which has gone on for centuries and no resolution, only casualties and atrocities, never-ending war.

Wanting to right the wrongs or get justice is one thing. Wanting to "destroy the enemy completely" is something else.

I never wanted to see Scientology destroyed, and I wouldn't ask any government to "ban" it. You can't ban an idea or a belief, and I don't want a government that is so powerful or invasive that it could do that.

I DO, however, want to see the abuses stopped, and I do want to see the tax exemption reversed. I think these are attainable goals.
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
I have some agreement with this concept.

You have two sides who each will not rest until the enemy is defeated. Each side believes that good and right is on their side, and each side assigns evil intent to the other side.

We are witnessing polarization and escalation in the two camps.

Is it possible that both sides are a MIX of good and evil? Look at the conflict in the Middle East... which has gone on for centuries and no resolution, only casualties and atrocities, never-ending war.

Wanting to right the wrongs or get justice is one thing. Wanting to "destroy the enemy completely" is something else.

I never wanted to see Scientology destroyed, and I wouldn't ask any government to "ban" it. You can't ban an idea or a belief, and I don't want a government that is so powerful or invasive that it could do that.

I DO, however, want to see the abuses stopped, and I do want to see the tax exemption reversed. I think these are attainable goals.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: and I'll add that I think Scientology will fall under the weight of the loss those two things.

But destroy it no, I don't think there is anything to destroy it's all smoke and mirrors and bullshit.

I'm not an antiscientologist and don't even think of myself as an Exscientologist just a former student of the subject
who saw it as a con and still does.
 

imSPecial

Patron with Honors
Serious actions against Ron's Orgs.

10 year legal haseling of Mayo. Edith Vien attacked by lawyers.

https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/osas-war-against-independence/

Then attacks on Marty Rathbun? You been asleep?

No, you? :surrender:

I was talking about a protracted campaign from the exes to disembowel the freezone.

I was in OSA unfortunately. I know the shit OSA did/does against the freezone, don't worry.

PS: Sometimes I write things and I think my English is perfect but then a few readings later, or a comment later, I catch my errors.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
No, you? :surrender:

I was talking about a protracted campaign from the exes to disembowel the freezone.

I was in OSA unfortunately. I know the shit OSA did/does against the freezone, don't worry.

PS: Sometimes I write things and I think my English is perfect but then a few readings later, or a comment later, I catch my errors.
imSPecial,
Please don't slow down or over edit yourself! I understood what you said and (bless his indie heart) Terril changed the subject into persecution of the FreeZone.. I had a reply for him but thought better time spent elsewhere.. Then I saw your comment and wanted to spend my time telling you, you made a good comment. Put your white flag away until the day you really want to call a truce.

Terril,
The FZ is free..just enjoy it {hug}

**my never-in opinion and your mileage may rock slam**
 

Francois Tremblay

Patron with Honors
Is it possible that both sides are a MIX of good and evil? Look at the conflict in the Middle East... which has gone on for centuries and no resolution, only casualties and atrocities, never-ending war.

Can you point to evils that ex-Scientologists have committed in their communication or activism? What ex-Scientologist is committing human trafficking, false imprisonment, tax fraud, blackmail, etc?

Wanting to right the wrongs or get justice is one thing. Wanting to "destroy the enemy completely" is something else.

I never wanted to see Scientology destroyed, and I wouldn't ask any government to "ban" it. You can't ban an idea or a belief, and I don't want a government that is so powerful or invasive that it could do that.

I DO, however, want to see the abuses stopped, and I do want to see the tax exemption reversed. I think these are attainable goals.

This makes no sense to me. One point that people on ESMB hammer on, and which I happen to agree with, is that the abuses and the courses are both part of the same tech, and that you can't split the two. How can you "see the abuses stopped" if the organization still exists and still pushes the tech?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
No, you? :surrender:

I was talking about a protracted campaign from the exes to disembowel the freezone.

I was in OSA unfortunately. I know the shit OSA did/does against the freezone, don't worry.

PS: Sometimes I write things and I think my English is perfect but then a few readings later, or a comment later, I catch my errors.

You didn't communicate very well I'm afraid. Better luck next time :)

There hasn't really been a protracted campaign to disembowel the FZ by exes.

There has been a long term effort by a few to stop me posting
about the FZ with Success stories. I've been the main promoter of
the FZ on the net for 15 years. I used to post success stories on
just about all critical forums. [there are no scn forums that aren't
critical] Over the years all such forum owners were persuaded to
no longer allow such posts.
 

imSPecial

Patron with Honors
BIC may think that any ex who [inexplicably] now does not love LRH and his "tech" (not synonymous with the word "technology") is a hater, just like "RCS" is a hater. My answer is, "You know nothing." Has anyone else seen a protracted campaign to disembowel the freezone? I haven't.

Alright. This is what I said Terril. Poor reception (by exes, myself included) of your comments/freezone success stories on ESMB does not equal a protracted campaign to shut down the freezone by exes.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can you point to evils that ex-Scientologists have committed in their communication or activism? What ex-Scientologist is committing human trafficking, false imprisonment, tax fraud, blackmail, etc?

Some misguided "anti-Scn-ists" have engaged in deprogramming which involves kidnap, an illegal action in the misguided belief that it is for someone's own good. Some protesters have engaged in illegal activities while protesting - these were documented during the initial Anonymous activities. Examples: DDOS of websites, defacing of personal property, ordering a bunch of pizzas delivered to the cult (for the LULZ, etc). I don't know of tax fraud, human trafficking or blackmail. Those activities should definitely be stopped no matter who does them. But as the rhetoric heats up, someone who's never been in the cult could get so stirred up with hatred that they physically assault an "innocent Scientologist" thinking it's ok because "Scientology is all evil".

This makes no sense to me. One point that people on ESMB hammer on, and which I happen to agree with, is that the abuses and the courses are both part of the same tech, and that you can't split the two. How can you "see the abuses stopped" if the organization still exists and still pushes the tech?

There are already groups that pick and choose what part of Hub-Tek they want to use, they throw out the "evil bits" and continue on with using what they think will actually help people. Their basic intent is to help people. I wouldn't deny them that right. And I say this as a complete EX, I am not part of any kind of reformed Scn group.

Christianity is one example of a group which has splintered over the centuries, choosing not to apply the extremism of the Old Testament ("stone the sinners, etc.") instead focusing on love, forgiveness, etc. They still call themselves Christians.

Speaking from experience, I know there are plenty of Scn-ists who are there because they want to help people. Maybe they are misguided, but as long as they are not committing abuses I say leave them be.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..
Any Independent Group or auditor/practitioner worth their salt would be well advised to watch and confront this show carefully, as well as keep a finger on the pulse of the current media frenzy. You will encounter people who have seen this show or read/heard about it somewhere – and these folk will have some rather uncomfortable questions needing answers. You are going to need a good strategy in place to deal with this.
So? So what is the "good strategy"? How come they don't simply say what it is?

It must be because the author of that altitudinous article doesn't know. Thus, like Hubbard, the only advice rendered is "....um, well...just make it go right."

In short, straight out of the Dissemination Formula policy, the Scientologist is to detect and "handle" any "antagonism" that the prospective customer has about the subject Scientology.

Example:


PROSPECTIVE CUSTOMER
So, after seeing the HBO documentary, the only thing
"Clear" is that there are no "Clears". Hubbard lied about
all those abilities and nobody ever attained that state.

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
So, you are saying that HBO claims that Ron's
tech doesn't work--so now you don't think
that Ron's tech works?

PROSPECTIVE CUSTOMER
Exactly.

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
You're wrong! Ron's tech does work!
Does that handle it for you?
Do you feel good about Ron's tech now?

PROSPECTIVE CUSTOMER
Um. Not really. No.

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Thank you for that. I get it. What other
considerations do you have that Ron's
tech doesn't work?

PROSPECTIVE CUSTOMER
Wuttt? I just told you. Anyways, you're
an "OT" and you can't show me any OT
abilities, so that's pretty obviously bullshit, right?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Ohhh! Now I get it. You are confusing me with a
Church of Scientology OT. I'm not a Church of
Scientology OT, I'm an Indie Scientology OT.

PROSPECTIVE CUSTOMER
Oh? Really? What's the difference?

INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Well, unlike the Church of Scientology, we
never evaluate or try to convince you that
OT's have special powers. We let you convince
yourself that OT's have special powers.


 
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Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
No, you? :surrender:

I was talking about a protracted campaign from the exes to disembowel the freezone.

I was in OSA unfortunately. I know the shit OSA did/does against the freezone, don't worry.

PS: Sometimes I write things and I think my English is perfect but then a few readings later, or a comment later, I catch my errors.

Didn't think exes were engaged in such. Some people have discussed their opinions in which they thought the FZ shouldn't be there, but that's not a campaign.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
You didn't communicate very well I'm afraid. Better luck next time :)

There hasn't really been a protracted campaign to disembowel the FZ by exes.

There has been a long term effort by a few to stop me posting
about the FZ with Success stories. I've been the main promoter of
the FZ on the net for 15 years. I used to post success stories on
just about all critical forums. [there are no scn forums that aren't
critical] Over the years all such forum owners were persuaded to
no longer allow such posts.

I shan't cry any tears over how much harder it is for you to fish for [STRIKE]"clients"[/STRIKE] dupes on the internet, especially here at ESMB. :biggrin:
 
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