INT Base and Jonestown

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
I used to think the comparision was silly.
I got into $cn. in the 70's and my "wog" friends wore my ears out about it.
But while watching a youtube on another thread tonight, I came across this.

The red flags are...well, red.
I see a LOT of similarities to INT base and Jonestown.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-jHTZc5hGHE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=-jHTZc5hGHE

Go about halfway in, to really get the specifics of how the two compare.
I will type them up tomorrow.
Wow, The "history" channel is weird.
However, there were some keypoints that stand out like a sore thumb at a Flag graduation.
 
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LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
I used to think the comparision was silly.
I got into $cn. in the 70's and my "wog" friends wore my ears out about it.
But while watching a youtube on another thread tonight, I came across this.

The red flags are...well, red.
I see a LOT of similarities to INT base and Jonestown.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-jHTZc5hGHE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=-jHTZc5hGHE

Go about halfway in, to really get the specifics of how the two compare.

No doubts here. Hubbard (through the Dwarf) says we need more $$ and damn if financial suicide is not OODs for many rank and file scilons.
 

rich

Silver Meritorious Patron
Jones town /scientology,same same.
Except the dianetics technology is better than the Jim Jones tech.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Personally i always thought this comparison was a bit off. Oh sure there are all sorts of cult similarities, but mass suicidings thingies? Nah, CoS, the koolaid don't kill you right away, death of a thousand poisonings, Jimmy's trip, not so much.
Jim J was always there right in the middle of things, pushing his shit. Hubbard is dead, but when alive he moved further and further away from his comfy circle, dying ultimately by himself, in delusion and sickness, with a pack of vultures ready to pick up the remains. Nobody wished to continue Jim's madness, and hasn't, though there are, I believe, some fundy cults in the US that have strikingly similar charisma.
Jim's world ended in a singular tragedy, albeit repercussions that will echo for many generations.
Hubbard's tragedy is still being played, and the echos of the drums are still reaching further ears.

Just a wee thought of opinion here, no disrespect to anyone meant or inferred.

:cheers:
 

Sindy

Crusader
Another good comparison (at least as far as Miscavige is concerned) is the final days of Hitler.

Sam Domingo posted this the other day on FB and I thought it interesting -- especially the part about the Bunker Mentality:

Despite the hopeless situation he was now in, visitors to the bunker were amazed that Hitler was still able to work himself up into a megalomaniacal frenzy in which Berlin would be saved and the Nazi dream fulfilled. While in one of these moods, Hitler would pore over maps, moving buttons to represent military units. In truth, the divisions he imagined himself to be directing were broken remnants. What was left of Berlin was defended by old men and teenagers hurriedly conscripted from the Hitler Youth.

http://uktv.co.uk/yesterday/item/aid/528437

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4486379.stm
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Personally i always thought this comparison was a bit off. Oh sure there are all sorts of cult similarities, but mass suicidings thingies?


It wouldn't be pitched as a "mass suicide" but rather a chance to join Ron on Target Two; and SOME would jump at the chance to volunteer if the 'opportunity' were offered.

I don't expect this to happen. :no: But given the craziness of DM and how deep the cult programming goes, it IS a possibility imo.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I know this has been posted before but it does have a place in this thread. I think that whoever put this together did a good job showing the similarities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQxSuC9hqhY


Profoundly disturbing, because the comparisons are true.

Whether Scientologists would ever allow themselves to be steered by its fanatical cult leaders into killing themselves (mass suicide) is uncertain.

What is certain, however, is Scientologists willingness to be manipulated into the disposal and killing of others without sorrow, because they have been "declared enemies of mankind"--for no more reason that speaking or writing their opinions. Especially when their free speech might rise to whistleblowing or or anything which could theoretically threaten or reduce the rivers of money fraudulently pouring into the cult.

Examples?

What was Paulette Cooper's great crime for which Hubbard sentenced her to death? Writing a book. A true book, unlike Hubbard's psuedo-scientific hoax, DMSMH.

What was Lisa McPherson's crime? That she went crazy from the "tech"--and it might be "bad PR" to let anyone talk to her. So they imprisoned and killed her instead.

There are others.

"Oh, but that's not the real Scientology!" exclaim zealous believers of Hubbard's "tech".

Yet it is. And the denial itself, whether intentional or delusional, is part of the real Scientology too.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was in $cn in the late 60's and 70's... got to OTIII (u-huh)...
Yes it was delusional. yes it didn't make sense, but when I was last
in Clearwater.. (2002?) for a picket. I asked an old guy I saw wearing a boiler suit, on Cleveland Street, whom I assumed was in the sea org, the following question, his answer troubled me a great deal, I like to believe this answer wouldn't have been possible in the 70's..which also begs the question what the hell are they planning now, ten years after...

Question: What plans are you making for retirement in your old age?

Answer: (without a pause): I plan on doing a walk in, and taking over someone else's body when I get to OT...
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I was in $cn in the late 60's and 70's... got to OTIII (u-huh)...
Yes it was delusional. yes it didn't make sense, but when I was last
in Clearwater.. (2002?) for a picket. I asked an old guy I saw wearing a boiler suit, on Cleveland Street, whom I assumed was in the sea org, the following question, his answer troubled me a great deal, I like to believe this answer wouldn't have been possible in the 70's..which also begs the question what the hell are they planning now, ten years after...

Question: What plans are you making for retirement in your old age?

Answer: (without a pause): I plan on doing a walk in, and taking over someone else's body when I get to OT...


Having been in the Sea Org, this makes good sense to me.

If you looked more carefully at his clipboard, you would have noticed that his dog-eared Battle Plan included an action-target where he will write a CSW seeking approval of performing the "Walk-In" during his Saturday morning 3 hour personal cleaning time.

That's his "bright idea" to avoid DevT, making it go right to report back on post promptly after lunch.
 

Sindy

Crusader
I was in $cn in the late 60's and 70's... got to OTIII (u-huh)...
Yes it was delusional. yes it didn't make sense, but when I was last
in Clearwater.. (2002?) for a picket. I asked an old guy I saw wearing a boiler suit, on Cleveland Street, whom I assumed was in the sea org, the following question, his answer troubled me a great deal, I like to believe this answer wouldn't have been possible in the 70's..which also begs the question what the hell are they planning now, ten years after...

Question: What plans are you making for retirement in your old age?

Answer: (without a pause): I plan on doing a walk in, and taking over someone else's body when I get to OT...

Yeah, a Scientologist is entitled to take anybody's body as long as the Scientologist is OT. Otherwise, it's totally out-ethics and frowned upon.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Yeah, a Scientologist is entitled to take anybody's body as long as the Scientologist is OT. Otherwise, it's totally out-ethics and frowned upon.


LOL

Isn't Hubbard's and Miscavige's fanatical reign over cult members a de facto mass-scale 3rd Dynamic "Walk In", where they have taken (control of) anybody's body who is a Scientologist?

Kind of a joke, but actually……..
 
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iHateDuplicity

Patron with Honors
Wow. I never would have imagined I'd be saying this, but after seeing what those People's Temple folks were saying, I have to acknowledge that yes, something like that could happen at the Int Base. It really could.
 

Tamlin

Patron

Answer: (without a pause): I plan on doing a walk in, and taking over someone else's body when I get to OT...

Wow, this is so strange. Just this afternoon, I had a random thought about walk-ins and wondered if such an idea ever appeared in Scientology. Guess that answers my question...

I never imagined Scientology going the way of Jonestown, mainly because each group attracted different types of people. Mostly I've worried about the people left behind should DM flee the scene. What about the folks in the hole, who believe they deserve to be there? That's usually what haunts my mind.

The last few days though, I've been having the worst nightmares, as if something bad is going to happen. I don't know Scientology's beliefs on these things either, but I believe that events can produce reverberations that can be felt back into the past (yeah, I'm weird, so sue me.) I have no real-life involvement with Scn. There's no good reason why I'm waking up in a cold sweat about something happening in the church. My intuition tells me that something is going very wrong, though.

If it were in my power to do so, I would personally usher every person off the base myself. Just to make sure they were safe.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
--snipped--

It wouldn't be pitched as a "mass suicide" but rather a chance to join Ron on Target Two; and SOME would jump at the chance to volunteer if the 'opportunity' were offered.


QUESTION: How would dedicated Scientologists know how in the [STRIKE]world[/STRIKE] universe to even find Target Two?

ANSWER: That is fully detailed in the standard HSOTSC materials, which qualified Scientologists can advance pay now at a considerable discount!



HSOTSC: Hubbard Standard OT Suicide Course

Advance Discount: 50% off the suggested donation or only $50,000.

Qualifications: Any qualified Scientologist may enroll on the course if they have a) completed the student hat; b)attested to 100 hours of objectives and; c) been given ethics clearance, which includes a meter check verifying that all known MEST assets have been willed to the COS upon the parishioner's having successfully shedded their encumbrance.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Has anyone else been in one of those briefings where you were told that Jonestown was actually a total operation to discredit alternative religions? I was told that, seriously, do you think that someone would kill themselves like that?, and the whole Jonestown thing was a concerted effort to make other 'non-mainstream' beliefs, such as Scientology forbidden. I was briefed that the whole of Jonestown was a psych effort to make alternative religions seem dangerous.

But, what's just kind of strange, is that when Hubs died, they actually did the briefing that he causatively departed his body... his body was in perfect shape, but he was off to target 2 or whatever. So, yeah, he killed himself per what we were told....:unsure:

Honestly, I can't really see anything within the 'scripture' *cough* that would encourage mass-suicide, unless Davey issues an edict, but there have been enough people who have offed themselves because they felt they'd have a better chance going OT next lifetime, that it's an uncomfortable place.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
(snip)

Honestly, I can't really see anything within the 'scripture' *cough* that would encourage mass-suicide, unless Davey issues an edict, but there have been enough people who have offed themselves because they felt they'd have a better chance going OT next lifetime, that it's an uncomfortable place.

The end game of criminal organizations has the strong undertow, the hidden motive, to get rid of evidence, which includes those who could testify against the psychopath in charge. Perhaps this could be given a shore story of going to work with "Ron"...

And not having any 'scripture' never slowed them down....- and I challenge anyone here to cite where Hubbard stated that cremation was a part of $cientology as Earle C Cooley stated under oath to get the evidence of Hubbard's true death covered up by cremation In San Luis Obispo, AND This supposed tenet of $cientology was also cited under oath by Scientology's lawyers in order to get Lisa McPherson's body cremated...
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Has anyone else been in one of those briefings where you were told that Jonestown was actually a total operation to discredit alternative religions? I was told that, seriously, do you think that someone would kill themselves like that?, and the whole Jonestown thing was a concerted effort to make other 'non-mainstream' beliefs, such as Scientology forbidden. I was briefed that the whole of Jonestown was a psych effort to make alternative religions seem dangerous.


Yes, I was told that by a senior G.O. exec.

He was dorky and had a bit of a creepy grin-stare combo, so I didn't like him that much. Actually, at one time i thought he was a complete moron because he was asking me serious questions (from his lofty GO altitude) about my "intentions" towards a girl that I was dating. He seemed to be bent all out of shape because I was sleeping with her. Or maybe because she had big tits and he thought my exchange was out? LOL

 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, I was told that by a senior G.O. exec.

He was dorky and had a bit of a creepy grin-stare combo, so I didn't like him that much. Actually, at one time i thought he was a complete moron because he was asking me serious questions (from his lofty GO altitude) about my "intentions" towards a girl that I was dating. He seemed to be bent all out of shape because I was sleeping with her. Or maybe because she had big tits and he thought my exchange was out? LOL


My briefing was from OSA, so ... yeah, tell me OSA wasn't GO by another name.:p
 
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