Introduction to the Group

[voldemorte]

Hi everyone.

I've been checking out this site for a few months, as well as really investigating the COS on the web lately, and decided to join in.

A brief history, I have been in the COS for over 30 years, but am now completely disaffected from the group. To clarify the disaffection, it is with the organization, not the Tech, but not how the tech is applied by current management.

I am a Class IV auditor (pre-gat), and up until a short while auditing on OT7, and had been for many years, all "golden age"

I have come to the conclusion, that as much as I feel there is value in the tech, there is more damage that is being done by the group to others, and I have experienced it first hand for many years, and have seen it continually occurring, both in application of tech, application and misapplication of ethics.

My experiences cover Flag, RTC, Int terminals, IJC, local orgs, and field groups.

I have family still in as participants, as well as SO members, so I'll still be staying anonymous for the time being.

I thought I'd join, as I do actually see a value to sharing the stories, with the hope they can be avoided by others.

As I have been able to decompress for a while, I'm hopefully not going to ramble all over, but I'd like to share a few experiences that cover getting on and through the OT levels, experiences with other OT (mostly new OT8's, and many many people now off the level), Sea Org terminals, and others.

I also have experiences working through Flag MAAs, Qual, and Tech departments that, in truth, are truly appalling in the application of the Tech.

Sooo, hopefully my addition will be of value to the group, and also serve to help others realize that there is another way out, and that when you do change the viewpoint, life can actually be unbelievably enjoyable without constant pressure, threat, fear, and other misemotions.

I did receive the exact thing above by reading other posts, and when I realized that my experiences were not unique, and I was not the "only one" it in itself, was very freeing.

To get in comm with the group, what would be of the most interest to hear first?
Out-Tech?
Auditing on 7?
Non-OT OT stories? e.g. what is really wrong with the new OT's? How can they allow criminals on the level?
MAA fiascos? (how did I get comm-ev'd unnecessarily?)
How bad can a divorce cycle run through the church actually become? Can they really let someone disconnect from their children, become a felon due to child support, and continue to audit on OT7?
Others?????

I look forward to hearing back your thoughts.

 

[uncle sam]

To Voldemorte

Thanks for introducing yourself and welcome to the esmb. Start telling your stories with the "funniest one"- any story will do-we love stories! And your history indicates that you have lots of "good stories to be told". We wait---

 

[Good twin]

Voldemorte, let er rip....................
We love em all.

GT

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Hi everyone.

Welcome.

A brief history, I have been in the COS for over 30 years, but am now completely disaffected from the group. To clarify the disaffection, it is with the organization, not the Tech, but not how the tech is applied by current management.

You are not alone. Especially as regards your views on tech, although you are apt to discover there are more than a few on ESMB who don't share them.

If you haven't already, be sure you check out Alan Walter's & Dart Smohen's posts in re working with Hubbard & developing the tech. Fascinating stuff. Some real gems there.

Also, depending on the precise nature of your interest in the tech, I might be able to introduce you to some freezone scientology sites/practitioners with similar ideas. Feel free to pm me about that.


Mark A. Baker

 

[nexus100]

Welcome! I'd love to read anything you have to say.

 

[voldemorte]

Thanks

Hi,

Thanks for the comments.

I realize that I'll run into different views of the tech, and that's OK. In fact, it's kind of nice to be able to discuss it. It shouldn't be something that is always forced as a success. I did some good things, and also did some stuff that I went "what the hell" and "that was a waste of money"

The fact is is that I am a better person now than I was 20 years ago. I did learn stuff about myself, had gains, and despite everything, am happy with who I am. . . but I'm much happier now being out.

It was always funny to me that one thing that the COS pushes is "if it's not true for you, it's not true," but in fact they CANNOT apply it. There are a lot of good people in the group, but in fact they are truly suppressed. The count on the value of the group, but in fact the group has totally betrayed them, and then uses fear to keep them quiet. That is one of the reasons that I decided to start communicating.

I decided to start at the beginning

 

[Axiom142]

And a very warm welcome to you voldemort!

I can't keep up with so many newbies, and another OTVII!

I feel like I am witnessing an avalanche and the CoS is right in it's path.

I am almost starting to feel sorry for them, them haven't got a clue, have they?

I would love to hear any of your stories, but I particularly like the salacious ones.

You know, the ones where person A, has just completed OT whatever and are busy telling everyone how much more ethical they have become, all the while running a business scam fleecing trusting customers out of huge amounts of money and bonking their business partner's wife.

I totally agree with you that there are very many really good people in the CoS. So many are slogging their guts out to make a difference, but can achieve very little because of the institutional insanities so prevalent in the CoS.

If you stay in comm with your family and friends who are still in, you can work on giving them the truth so that they can save themselves as well. Also, an ‘insider’ can be very useful in telling the outside world what is actually happening inside the CoS right now.

I look forward to hearing more from you soon.

Axiom142

 

[Jakadak]

Hi,

It was always funny to me that one thing that the COS pushes is "if it's not true for you, it's not true," but in fact they CANNOT apply it.

Hi Voldermorte

When I was in Scn ( only for 5 years) I used to come across things that I didn't have reality on and used to ask lots of questions. I would use this quote above on several occasions. I thought it was pretty cool that LRH said this.

I thought that meant that you could have a choice.... that you didn't have to believe everything that LRH said. ( which I didn't ) But I was wrong !!

I would be told that I have a Misunderstood word etc and eventually when I cleared the word the thing I was questioning would then be real to me. IMO that was a load of rubbish. I didn't believe that, I just didn't agree with what I had just read, and misunderstood or not I wouldn't change my mind.

A big warm welcome to the group. I am waiting eagerly for your stories as they are of great interest to me.
Cheers Jakadak

 

[Feral]

Welcome (Lord) Voldemorte,

There are several of us that were on Solo nots now on the board, we might have been running into the same sort of thing!

I look forward to your story. If you want to compare notes mine is on the board already

 

[voldemorte]

Protect your Kids

I'm trying to figure out the best way to share some of my stories without clearly identifying who I am. As much as I'd like to be fully open, I'm not quite ready, so I'll work out how to share some of the more bizarre things I experienced, but here is one that should be brought to light.

One of the most disgusting practices that is now going on, which I don't see much about is the recruitment of children.

We just went through pulling my son out of a recruitment process that was the most insane thing I ever saw.

Recruiters started grabbing him from where he was on course. They started slowly and then escalated.

The recruiter from Los Angeles used every dirty tactic that I could imagine, including taking my son to restaurants, and refusing to tell us where they were to scaring the hell out of him with confidential data on how if he didn't join, the world would end. He was only 14.

They would take him off course and spend 4-6 hours with him and 2 or three SO members and pound him to join. All of this was being done without our knowledge or consent. I would estimate that they spent 20-30 hours in one week alone indoctrinating him, pushing buttons, invalidating his purposes so nothing was important but the SO and many other things. They also LIED consistently about everything about the SO.

Finally, when I found out what was occurring, we found where he was (he was so confused, he sent us to the wrong restaurant) and picked him up. We asked him what was going on and he broke down completely. He couldn't stop them, he was scared that the world was ending, he couldn't get away from them and he was scared to death.

That's when it got bad. They had to find a target for why they couldn't get their stat.

My wife was then ordered in for meter checks. She was told she had no right to interrupt their cycle. She was ordered to a senior org for sec checking, she was black Pr'd to others about her having CI on the Sea Org, she was threatened if she got in their way and many other things.

We had people showing up at all hours, old friends of my son who had joined the SO and he never heard from were suddenly calling him to "say hi" SO members he knew would show up and boldly lie that they just wanted to hang out. They manipulated this every way they could to trap him.

It kept escalating until we got in contact with a RTC Rep. In a quick phone call, they acknowledged what was happening, and immediately got the terminal to call and apologize and stop it.

We thought it was over, but guess what, we were wrong. It continued. More orders for sec checks, black PR to other parents by the SO members. Finally, we changed our home phone, refused to let anyone in and had my son refuse to answer his phone.

In retrospect, I appreciate what they did for this one fact: They so freaked my son out that he would NEVER join. They caused this, not anyone else. Their practices, methods and behavior are so self destructive that they can't help themselves.

This should be stopped. We later found out that this recruiter has a track record of this, and, here is the kicker. . . Everyone Knows. He's been doing it for 10+ years. They just don't care, but he produces new SO members. What is really funny, is that his stat is new members, but members that STAY. Perhaps that is the problem. Selecting the wrong people, the gullible to join, and then abusing them. Most children, let alone teenagers are not clear enough in their life goals to even decide who they are, let alone what they want to become. It is our job as parents to protect them and help them develop them. THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO JOIN, just based on this fact, and the church pressures and threatens parents.

A few months later, I heard about this same cycle happening again, so obviously Snr Mgmt and RTC agree with the process.

 

[Div6]

Welcome He-who-must-not-be-named,

I think you will find all houses of Hogwarts represented here: so put no restraint on offending anyone here. If they feel strongly enough about something they will let you know about it. But do take whatever measures necessary to protect you and yours.

When I left the CoS a while back, I had attested "clear". I have since done up through OT IV and all 3 L's on the outside. I do find much value in "the tech". I rabidly oppose the popery of DM and his tech faggotry.

I look forward to reading your stories...

 

[Human Again]

This should be stopped. We later found out that this recruiter has a track record of this, and, here is the kicker. . . Everyone Knows. He's been doing it for 10+ years. They just don't care, but he produces new SO members. What is really funny, is that his stat is new members, but members that STAY. Perhaps that is the problem. Selecting the wrong people, the gullible to join, and then abusing them. Most children, let alone teenagers are not clear enough in their life goals to even decide who they are, let alone what they want to become. It is our job as parents to protect them and help them develop them. THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO JOIN, just based on this fact, and the church pressures and threatens parents.

A few months later, I heard about this same cycle happening again, so obviously Snr Mgmt and RTC agree with the process.

I am enjoying your story Voldemorte and appreciate that you can see how it does help.

My recruitment cycle started when I was 15. My Mum refused to sign the papers. My dad said, "Let her go. Despite what they say it is very hard in the SO, she'll be back in a couple of weeks."

I went up with two adults. Both of whom went "no way let me out" within a week of seeing what was expected of them. I had stars inmy eyes about saving this sector of the galaxy and would have put up with anything.

I disconnected from my Mum and Dad within a year at the MAA's insistance and didn't see or speak to my family for a decade.

I am not surprised they are stepping up the pressure to bring in adolescents as they are easily manipulated and moulded into "loyal and steadfast SO members and execs". 14 year olds are also always "HCO Qualified" and thus much in demand.

Your son may never know the deep truth of what you saved him from, but we do. Big hugs


Almost Human

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Welcome Voldemorte.

"She was told she had no right to interrupt their cycle."

This is what irks me the most about the scientology organization. The members are trained into hoodwinked slaves who act and think as kidnapping, mind raping criminals who think the world belongs to them.

Doing this to a fully grown adult is bad enough, but doing it to a 14 year old then telling the parents to butt out, ......don't know what to say, except keep exposing the organization and it's barbaric culture and close them down fast.

I'm too livid to say anymore right now

 

[HappyGirl]

...I also have experiences working through Flag MAAs, Qual, and Tech departments that, in truth, are truly appalling in the application of the Tech.

Hi voldemorte,
Welcome! I relate to everything you have said so far, and am very glad you started telling us some of your stories. In answer to what I would love to hear about, your statement quoted above really intrigued me. I would particularly love to hear Flag MAA/Qual stories. (I, personally, spent many happy moments in those areas being handled ad nauseum, thinking I was the "only one." Do you know Suzi? She was my hero!! Is she still there?) But ANY stories are great.

 

[gomorrhan]

Glad you're hear, and I find your situation extremely interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing more posts from you, and will pay particular attention to any posts regarding your considerations about the tech.

 

[Carmel]

Hey Voldemort,

Glad to have you on the board!

I can certainly identify with what you say and your experiences. I'm still in a position where I find it healing and calming to hear and know that others have the same take on something. Feeling understood is a good thing and somehow when ya read something from another on the board, that ya can relate to or have experienced - ya feel understood. Hence, your input is appreciated this end.

I too was trained pre GAT, and have and am thankful for much of what I learned as tools for life. Fortunately for me, I stopped having auditing at 5 (pre GAT), and I avoided the 7 trip which has been so understandably horrid for so many.

I know what you mean in regard to the CofS putting your son off scn. The "church" has thankfully done the same to mine. My kids still have some very valuable relationships with a couple of "scn kids", but they are young men now, and they along with their friends, find the CofS actions and culture abhorrent purely from their own experiences.

Welcome to the board, you are among friends here. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Cheers,
Ceedia

 

[Power Change]

Hi Voldermorte

When I was in Scn ( only for 5 years) I used to come across things that I didn't have reality on and used to ask lots of questions. I would use this quote above on several occasions. I thought it was pretty cool that LRH said this.

I thought that meant that you could have a choice.... that you didn't have to believe everything that LRH said. ( which I didn't ) But I was wrong !!

I would be told that I have a Misunderstood word etc and eventually when I cleared the word the thing I was questioning would then be real to me. IMO that was a load of rubbish. I didn't believe that, I just didn't agree with what I had just read, and misunderstood or not I wouldn't change my mind.

Wow this sounds like me. I had the same feelings.

I would first try to argue the point with the sup and quickly learned that I would be there all night if I didnt quickly 'get it', accept that what was written was true. I used to watch this in the courseroom as I knew something was wrong with this...but I could not articulate or figure out what exactly wasnt right about it. I watched so many students argue with the sup... until they too yielded to the power of Oz Hubbard truth.

The part about what is true is true for you....absolutely right---not one scn could actually allow that to be practiced. You either yielded to their truth or your were sec checked, put on the meter for MU's or 'handled' by someone. I think I had a 'deer in the headlights' look most of the time as a public scn.

Once I realized through reading here that my gut instincts were totally right, I could replay instantly in my mind each time I would think to myself "I dont get that" or "why do they do that?" :confused2:

 

[FlunkedForLaughing]

Welcome Voldemorte.

I remember hearing once that a mother was getting signatures to rejoin the group, because she was put in lower ethics conditions for not signing the release form for her underage daughter to joing the SO. This was many years ago. I think it's gotten worse over the years.

I am interested in hearing any story that is safe for you to tell.

FFL

 

[KnightVision]

Hi Voldemort,



Welcome to the club!!!

 

[Anne Ominous]

Hi there Voldy Welcome to the board. Hope everything goes ok with your family.

Anon x