Is consciousness a miracle?

[Gadfly]

Reminds me so much of my favorite scene in "The Bladerunner" where Rutger Hauer's character is about to die.

I've done the same thing so many times.

It's weird how we have come to consider being wet in clothing as something to desperately avoid. You watch people huddled at the doors of stores when the rain comes pouring down, afraid to go out. It's so silly.

I just walk out, thinking, "Ahhh, how wonderful! We need this stuff to sustain life."

And thunder! Wow!

In martial arts training, we used to sit in very cold water to help develop chi and to transcend the body's resistance. Our considerations of "pain" and "discomfort" give them dominance over us.

It's funny that you mention the thing about "avoiding getting wet", because my own socially-defined and created "natural inclination" is to "get out of the rain". I am one of these people who "watches myself" like I might watch a movie or complete strangers. The same with this thing about "getting out of the rain, and remaining dry", as if to not do so is "uncomfortable" or at least is somewhat of a nuisance because you have to change into dry clothes at some point (or get cold, or mess up the clean floors or carpet, or . . . ). Part of it IS "practical", but like anything, context changes everything!

I don't know if we actually "need this stuff to sustain life", but ONE most certainly MUST ADD THESE MOMENTS OF INNER DEPTH AND MEANING to whatever is "out there", if you want to "enjoy a happy life". It seems that when people cease "adding to life", and "filling it with meaning and value" - that they fade away and die. That might be part of why some elderly people suddenly take a turn for the worse, and die. They stop "creating life" for themselves. :confused2:

One thing that hooked me into Scientology right in the very beginning was the first chapter of "A New Slant on Life". Hubbard talked about how "a little child derives all of his HOW of life from the grace he puts upon life". Hubbard added, "one's attitude toward life (or some aspect of life) makes every difference in ones living". Hubbard gave examples, some dumb, but his point was valid.

Hubbard was 100% spot-on correct. Life is for you, life unravels for you, and life is experienced by you, based largely on HOW YOU first conceive of it. There ARE tidbits of brilliance within the larger inane subject of Scientology - this is one of them.

This notion exist all throughout New Age literature, that YOUR mental world CREATES a PATTERN for the universe to enact and bring about. In a very real sense ones experience of any aspect of the universe is determined greatly or possibly completely by HOW one conceives of it in the first place. The world you see, feel and experience is largely determined BY YOU (by your beliefs, your attitudes about certain things, by your fixed ideas, by your values, by your considerations about a great many things, etc.). This is as true for the things you like as for the things you don't. The world, as you experience it IS an "illusion". It is a "fiction" of your own creation, but THAT is NOT necessarily a bad thing, once one becomes aware of how it all works.

I worked for a great part of my life to get rid of all mental things, such as considerations, agreements, opinion, and I do now see them as the arbitrary creations that they are. BUT, also, knowing that, I can also choose a set of considerations, agreements and opinions that "work for me", and that define and determine a DIFFERENT experience of reality. Changing sets of considerations and beliefs can be sort of like changing sets of glasses. As they change, your perceptions and expereinces change.

See, since considerations, agreements, attitudes and opinions do minimally "greatly color" ones experiences of reality, it behooves one to become aware of this mechanism, and also to adjust ones own set of considerations, agreements, attitudes and opinions so that the "new pattern" results in a "more desirable, peaceful, or better" experience of all-that-is for you (for whatever THAT means for you at this moment). To add complexity to the mix, it is also true that these personal considerations, agreements, attitudes and opinions are always CHANGING!

Any experience of reality is relative. The only experience free of that restraint is the pure experience of awareness itself, where awareness is the only object of perception and experience. But otherwise, just as with Einstein's Theory of Relativity, ANY experience of some aspect of the Universe is WHOLLY DETERMINED by the (mental/spiritual) STATE OF THE OBSERVER (in this case "you"). When Einstein was asked about, "well then what is objectively real?", he answered that as far as ANY OBSERVER (conscious entity) is concerned, there can be no such thing, because any finite experience of the Universe is patterned after and determined by the STATE OF THE OBSERVER. The same is quite true for consciousness.

This whole "psychology of consciousness" has not been much studied in the west, and is not viewed as having much value or importance in the modern world of consumerism, capitalism and materialsim (not that it has been ever valued much by ANY earlier versions of civilization and/or societies). Also, the main organized religions find such studies a great threat, because a true psychology of consciousness would "see through" and often act to tear apart "beliefs". That is partially why some versions of Christianity and Islam have such negative attitudes towards all things "New Age".

 

[auntpat]

I am currently studying "I AM THAT I AM'. It begins with realizing that your parents gave you a body. but God gave you life. He gave you a piece of himself. I am working to make that small piece grow. My first step was to become self actualized, which was not difficult as I have been half way there all my life. Now I am working on unconditional Love. This is a bit harder because I have so many considerations in the way.

I want to acheive alinement with God. I want the abilities that are already mine but because of doubt and other barriers of my own making I am not able to utilize them.

The truth is "I AM GOD" and so are you and every other living thing in the universe.
If we all realized this, just think of what we could accomplish.

One of the biggest barriers to acheiving allinement to God is ego, the false self. This is what man has used to define a false god who isn't very likable and has turned many people away from God and the power that is ours.

I am doing this work so that I may help myself and others to reach their potenttial as God. My purpose is the love, power, health, wisdom, and aall that is God, or good as we state it, will be the norm rather than a miracle.

I invite you to join me on this quest if you like, and if not pray for me. Thank you !

With Love and Light,
Aunt Pat

 

[Smilla]

How lucky you are to have had such a perceptive mother.

I see this flow of wisdom passing through the generations.

She's quite an amazing person. Something she taught me as a kid that I still do today is to just 'stop' whatever I'm doing, and just notice the way my body feels, and where I am. It's like saying hello to oneself. I like it.

 

[Veda]

I am currently studying "I AM THAT I AM'. It begins with realizing that your parents gave you a body. but God gave you life. He gave you a piece of himself. I am working to make that small piece grow. My first step was to become self actualized, which was not difficult as I have been half way there all my life. Now I am working on unconditional Love. This is a bit harder because I have so many considerations in the way.

I want to acheive alinement with God. I want the abilities that are already mine but because of doubt and other barriers of my own making I am not able to utilize them.

The truth is "I AM GOD" and so are you and every other living thing in the universe.
If we all realized this, just think of what we could accomplish.

One of the biggest barriers to acheiving allinement to God is ego, the false self. This is what man has used to define a false god who isn't very likable and has turned many people away from God and the power that is ours.

I am doing this work so that I may help myself and others to reach their potenttial as God. My purpose is the love, power, health, wisdom, and aall that is God, or good as we state it, will be the norm rather than a miracle.

I invite you to join me on this quest if you like, and if not pray for me. Thank you !

With Love and Light,
Aunt Pat

Love and Light, Aunt Pat

 

[guanoloco]

Reminds me so much of my favorite scene in "The Bladerunner" where Rutger Hauer's character is about to die.

I've done the same thing so many times.

It's weird how we have come to consider being wet in clothing as something to desperately avoid. You watch people huddled at the doors of stores when the rain comes pouring down, afraid to go out. It's so silly.

I just walk out, thinking, "Ahhh, how wonderful! We need this stuff to sustain life."

And thunder! Wow!

In martial arts training, we used to sit in very cold water to help develop chi and to transcend the body's resistance. Our considerations of "pain" and "discomfort" give them dominance over us.

Singing In The Rain...one of my favs.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Below is the post to which I was responding. I should have quoted it.

With his "Jesus and God doing cartwheels on our rooftops," comment, Roland demonstrated that he missed the point. Roland, old chap, the ultimate miracle is not a grand display of the extraordinary, but simple ordinary being.

Lol, I very much doubt that Roland 'missed the point' anymore than I did ... a sense of the absurd is a wonderful and fairly rare thing, miraculous if you like ... and along with some ordinary humour it certainly makes me joyous.

​

 

[degraded being]

.
.
.
If consciousness is in everything, or if god is in everything, then it, or he, or she, must be in our anus and our shit and in terrorists, and in their bombs and in nuclear waste and in dirt and in everything 'bad' and nasty, not just in lovely things.
That's not right. I didn't ask to be born. I want a refund of life, and a better product sent to me as compensation. Something more nicer.

 

[Veda]

Lol, I very much doubt that Roland 'missed the point' anymore than I did ... a sense of the absurd is a wonderful and fairly rare thing, miraculous if you like ... and along with some ordinary humour it certainly makes me joyous.

​

Ah... how can I say this. Roland genuinely doesn't understand what I'm saying. And that's not a crime, and it doesn't make him stupid. What I was saying is not reaching him.

It may be my fault. Perhaps the word "miracle" is problematic.

Astounding might be a better word, but that doesn't quite say it.

Mmmm...

Oh well.

 

[Smilla]

.
.
.
If consciousness is in everything, or if god is in everything, then it, or he, or she, must be in our anus and our shit and in terrorists, and in their bombs and in nuclear waste and in dirt and in everything 'bad' and nasty, not just in lovely things.
That's not right. I didn't ask to be born. I want a refund of life, and a better product sent to me as compensation. Something more nicer.

I honestly think that needed to be said. I'm going to sit and think about it, and will get back to you in a few decade's time

 

[BardoThodol]

It's funny that you mention the thing about "avoiding getting wet", because my own socially-defined and created "natural inclination" is to "get out of the rain". I am one of these people who "watches myself" like I might watch a movie or complete strangers. The same with this thing about "getting out of the rain, and remaining dry", as if to not do so is "uncomfortable" or at least is somewhat of a nuisance because you have to change into dry clothes at some point (or get cold, or mess up the clean floors or carpet, or . . . ). Part of it IS "practical", but like anything, context changes everything!

I don't know if we actually "need this stuff to sustain life", but ONE most certainly MUST ADD THESE MOMENTS OF INNER DEPTH AND MEANING to whatever is "out there", if you want to "enjoy a happy life". It seems that when people cease "adding to life", and "filling it with meaning and value" - that they fade away and die. That might be part of why some elderly people suddenly take a turn for the worse, and die. They stop "creating life" for themselves. :confused2:

One thing that hooked me into Scientology right in the very beginning was the first chapter of "A New Slant on Life". Hubbard talked about how "a little child derives all of his HOW of life from the grace he puts upon life". Hubbard added, "one's attitude toward life (or some aspect of life) makes every difference in ones living". Hubbard gave examples, some dumb, but his point was valid.

Hubbard was 100% spot-on correct. Life is for you, life unravels for you, and life is experienced by you, based largely on HOW YOU first conceive of it. There ARE tidbits of brilliance within the larger inane subject of Scientology - this is one of them.

This notion exist all throughout New Age literature, that YOUR mental world CREATES a PATTERN for the universe to enact and bring about. In a very real sense ones experience of any aspect of the universe is determined greatly or possibly completely by HOW one conceives of it in the first place. The world you see, feel and experience is largely determined BY YOU (by your beliefs, your attitudes about certain things, by your fixed ideas, by your values, by your considerations about a great many things, etc.). This is as true for the things you like as for the things you don't. The world, as you experience it IS an "illusion". It is a "fiction" of your own creation, but THAT is NOT necessarily a bad thing, once one becomes aware of how it all works.

I worked for a great part of my life to get rid of all mental things, such as considerations, agreements, opinion, and I do now see them as the arbitrary creations that they are. BUT, also, knowing that, I can also choose a set of considerations, agreements and opinions that "work for me", and that define and determine a DIFFERENT experience of reality. Changing sets of considerations and beliefs can be sort of like changing sets of glasses. As they change, your perceptions and expereinces change.

See, since considerations, agreements, attitudes and opinions do minimally "greatly color" ones experiences of reality, it behooves one to become aware of this mechanism, and also to adjust ones own set of considerations, agreements, attitudes and opinions so that the "new pattern" results in a "more desirable, peaceful, or better" experience of all-that-is for you (for whatever THAT means for you at this moment). To add complexity to the mix, it is also true that these personal considerations, agreements, attitudes and opinions are always CHANGING!

Any experience of reality is relative. The only experience free of that restraint is the pure experience of awareness itself, where awareness is the only object of perception and experience. But otherwise, just as with Einstein's Theory of Relativity, ANY experience of some aspect of the Universe is WHOLLY DETERMINED by the (mental/spiritual) STATE OF THE OBSERVER (in this case "you"). When Einstein was asked about, "well then what is objectively real?", he answered that as far as ANY OBSERVER (conscious entity) is concerned, there can be no such thing, because any finite experience of the Universe is patterned after and determined by the STATE OF THE OBSERVER. The same is quite true for consciousness.

This whole "psychology of consciousness" has not been much studied in the west, and is not viewed as having much value or importance in the modern world of consumerism, capitalism and materialsim (not that it has been ever valued much by ANY earlier versions of civilization and/or societies). Also, the main organized religions find such studies a great threat, because a true psychology of consciousness would "see through" and often act to tear apart "beliefs". That is partially why some versions of Christianity and Islam have such negative attitudes towards all things "New Age".

The "stuff needed to sustain life" was rain. I'm an avid gardener, so I keep some attention on the weather just to keep the plants alive. Since I spend hundreds on plants each year, keeping them alive has some importance.

I watch myself all the time. Well, not all the time. I'm too lazy to do anything all the time. But, for the most part, I view my human self as a character in life's play, which keeps me amused.

This morning, I was at a Westlake's, looking at new varieties of heuchera to fill out the border along a shaded pathway in the garden. A Common Yellowthroat landed about four feet from me. I looked at him. He looked at me. Both of us curious about the other. Both comfortable with the experience. We were communicating about what a wonderful thing life is.

Well, that's how I viewed it. And viewing it that way made me happy. Someone who truly speaks Yellowthroat will have to ask the bird for his experience--if he even remembers.

If I were still in the church I'd write a success story about how amazing it is to be in touch with so many dynamics. Just another view within another context.

This thread reminds me of why I visit here for a few minutes most days. Those moments of shared realization about how cool it is to be alive. That sense of being exterior. Of being spiritual.

As an aside, when I first came to this site, I was mostly curious about the bad PR and wanted to see for myself, considering the unwillingness of the sources of that bad pr to actually include all information in their analysis.

After a slightly stormy beginning, I was amusing myself here, but wondering if those fifteen minute stints might be better spent elsewhere.

Your posts certainly make me glad I persisted a bit longer. I don't read all you write, not even in a single post--some I do, some I don't. I'm just lazy that way. But, what I read I really enjoy.

Otherwise, I guess, I just wouldn't read it.

 

[BardoThodol]

.
.
.
If consciousness is in everything, or if god is in everything, then it, or he, or she, must be in our anus and our shit and in terrorists, and in their bombs and in nuclear waste and in dirt and in everything 'bad' and nasty, not just in lovely things.
That's not right. I didn't ask to be born. I want a refund of life, and a better product sent to me as compensation. Something more nicer.

DB,

I just talked to God, who authorized a refund. If you still have your receipt. We don't have a record of you actually paying anything for your life. Perhaps, it's an oversight on our part. Perhaps a missed entry on our ledgers.

Be that as it may, if you would kindly submit proof of purchase, we will gladly refund what you paid or allow you to use that for an exchange. We have some beautiful new Sequoia growing if you'd like something with more longevity and less economic hassle. After a mere hundred years, the view is spectacular.

 

[BardoThodol]

Lol, I very much doubt that Roland 'missed the point' anymore than I did ... a sense of the absurd is a wonderful and fairly rare thing, miraculous if you like ... and along with some ordinary humour it certainly makes me joyous.

​

Dear,

If you persist with encouraging misbehavior you will be sent back for...uh...back for...well, correction. That's it, correction. We want you to be a better person.

Disorder will not be allowed. (I was about to say that disorder would not be tolerated, but because we are such powerful beings, we can "tolerate" anything.)

But, toleration differs greatly from appreciation. And what we do not appreciate, we condemn. And what we condemn...well, it's sort of like giving a mouse a cookie.

And if you give an organization an ethics officer, it's gonna want to use him/her.

 

[Gadfly]

.

If consciousness is in everything, or if god is in everything, then it, or he, or she, must be in our anus and our shit and in terrorists, and in their bombs and in nuclear waste and in dirt and in everything 'bad' and nasty, not just in lovely things.
That's not right. I didn't ask to be born. I want a refund of life, and a better product sent to me as compensation. Something more nicer.

I honestly think that needed to be said. I'm going to sit and think about it, and will get back to you in a few decade's time

The problem of EVIL in a universe created by some all-knowing, all-powerful, and basically GOOD God has always been a problem from the understanding of Man.

In Chistianity the problem is solved by manufacturing Satan, who along with some other angels, rebelled against God's authority. And then, Adam and Eve got suckered by the same devil, and were "punished" for questioning God's authority. Thus, hunger, pain, suffering, etc. At best I have to read this all as allegory and symbolism.

It seems to come down to "free will". I can grasp how Man's own screwed up exhibitions of greedy and power-hungry "free will" lead to wars, chaos and other man-made catastrophes. I can understand how Man's distorted enactment of "free will" results in robbery, rape, abuse, and murder. I can understand how Man's obsession with self, personal survival, and ego, lead to all sorts of problems and pain for self and others. I can understand, from a Buddhist perspective, how attachment and identification lead to MANY of any person's "problems in life" (for self and others).

And, even with mass catastrophes like earthquakes and tsunamis, I can sort of grasp how it is possible that the "mass combined fucked up mental energy of whole populations or an entire planet" might result in energy imbalances on "other planes" that get sorted out "here" and manifest as these catastrophes. These result from some combined negative Karmic effects of a great many people whose "free will" has been grossly misplaced while living their lives on Earth. But, even that is quite hypothetical for me. I don't "know with certainty" or believe that.

But then, I lose it past a certain point. What about the beautiful 6 year old kid who is diagnosed with terminal brain cancer? Or, the 8 year old girl who is abducted, tortured, raped and then murdered? Or the single mom who is hit and killed by a drunk driver as she is carrying groceries home, and whose 7 year old boy is now left to the state and foster care?

I end up with an attitude that no matter who you are, or how "good" you are, that SHIT STILL CAN HAPPEN (and does). Why? I have no idea. Personally, I cannot make sense of some of the SHIT that happens to seemingly good and decent people here on Earth. The model of overts and motivators, coupled with past lives, does NOT answer it for me.

In the end, IF we are a part of some larger basic "spirit", it seems to me that we each are "here" to "learn lessons", and to "grow" and "evolve" individually and as a group. Why? Again, I have no idea. And, as I pointed out abovr, for the life of me, I really cannot imagine WHAT these lessons might be with some of these tragedies.

Whatever is REALLY going on, I have no doubt that it might be NOTHING at all like ANY model provided by ANY religion or science currently on Earth. :confused2:

I am LESS "certain" than ever in my life. And THAT at least is HONEST. And, strangely, I don't mind it or feel the need "to know".

 

[BardoThodol]

She's quite an amazing person. Something she taught me as a kid that I still do today is to just 'stop' whatever I'm doing, and just notice the way my body feels, and where I am. It's like saying hello to oneself. I like it.

Thanks. I like that. I've got two kids and I'll pass it along, giving credit to you and your mom. They both consider me an insufferable moron, so I always have to attribute useful knowledge to someone else.

 

[Gadfly]

She's quite an amazing person. Something she taught me as a kid that I still do today is to just 'stop' whatever I'm doing, and just notice the way my body feels, and where I am. It's like saying hello to oneself. I like it.

Sort of like the Confusion Formula:

Find out WHERE you are!

(Not meant to degrade your mom's excellent advice - I have read similar recommendations in other non-Scientology New Age literature)

I have found "locationals" to be a useful practice that I do to this day. A locational easily allows me to expand my space and "get my anchor points out" - by spotting spots or looking at things (usually in the distance).

My brother hates Scientology ever since I gave them all the money I had when I was 25 years old. But, I taught him "locationals" some 35 years ago, and he still does one from time to time to "get into PT" or whatever. Obviously it does something for him - and he is no sort of "believer".

Heck, I walk out onto my front porch every morning, and I spend a few minutes spotting the tips of trees in the distance, flying birds, etc. I stop when I am "F/Ning" (no meter required).

 

[Smilla]

Sort of like the Confusion Formula:

Find out WHERE you are!

(Not meant to degrade your mom's excellent advice - I have read similar recommendations in other non-Scientology New Age literature)

I have found "locationals" to be a useful practice that I do to this day. A locational easily allows me to expand my space and "get my anchor points out" - by spotting spots or looking at things (usually in the distance).

My brother hates Scientology ever since I gave them all the money I had when I was 25 years old. But, I taught him "locationals" some 35 years ago, and he still does one from time to time to "get into PT" or whatever. Obviously it does something for him - and he is no sort of "believer".

Heck, I walk out onto my front porch every morning, and I spend a few minutes spotting the tips of trees in the distance, flying birds, etc. I stop when I am "F/Ning" (no meter required).

I was sat on a bus the other day and decided to really be with the people on the bus - a couple with their arms around each other - I could really feel their love, a tired guy glad to be on his way home to his family after a hard day at work, the bus driver concentrating on his driving, After a few moments I just felt a lot of love and reverence for us all.

 

[uniquemand]

"What disturbs people's minds is not events but their judgments on events"

“Some things are up to us and some things are not up to us. Our opinions are up to us, and our impulses, desires, aversions–in short, whatever is our own doing. Our bodies are not up to us, nor are our possessions, our reputations, or our public offices, or, that is, whatever is not our own doing."

"In the first place, do not allow yourself to be carried away by [the] intensity [of your impression]: but say, 'Impression, wait for me a little. Let me see what you are, and what you represent. Let me test you.' Then, afterwards, do not allow it to draw you on by picturing what may come next, for if you do, it will lead you wherever it pleases. But rather, you should introduce some fair and noble impression to replace it, and banish this base and sordid one.

Remember that foul words or blows in themselves are no outrage, but your judgement that they are so. So when any one makes you angry, know that it is your own thought that has angered you. Wherefore make it your endeavour not to let your impressions carry you away. For if once you gain time and delay, you will find it easier to control yourself.

Make it your study then to confront every harsh impression with the words, 'You are but an impression, and not at all what you seem to be'. Then test it by those rules that you possess; and first by this–the chief test of all–'Is it concerned with what is in our power or with what is not in our power?' And if it is concerned with what is not in our power, be ready with the answer that it is nothing to you." - Epictetus, (c.55 – c.135 C.E.)

 

[RolandRB]

I was sat on a bus the other day and decided to really be with the people on the bus - a couple with their arms around each other - I could really feel their love, a tired guy glad to be on his way home to his family after a hard day at work, the bus driver concentrating on his driving, After a few moments I just felt a lot of love and reverence for us all.

....... until the black guy mugged you for your smartphone.

 

[Smilla]

....... until the black guy mugged you for your smartphone.

No that didn't happen, but I was a bit taken aback by the burning Giraffe and the melting clock.

 

[Gadfly]

....... until the black guy mugged you for your smartphone.

While organized Scientology does not take this quote seriously, and surely does NOT apply it, since it is in direct contradiction to MANY other "policies & orders" written by Hubbard, it does apply to what you just said.

Hubbard wrote, in "What is Greatness":

"The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not."

I always liked that one isolated quote, as it resonates with other messages of love and compassion (i.e Buddha, Jesus).

Personally, I try to apply THAT ideas as a senior datum far above all others.

In Scientology, it is simply used as PR, and has no meaning within the larger scam.

In Christianity there is the idea:

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

Most people do "bad things", because they "know not what they do". They are simply ignorant, misled, misguided, poorly educated and/or the victims of nasty and/or brutal circumstances. This is just as true for the "intelligent criminal". Often the abused person acts out, dramatizes and perpetuates the same or similar abuses and/or crimes that were earlier aimed at him or her.

The Inquisition priests often truly believed that he was acting to "save souls" as he tightened the thumb screws on the heretic or burned the witch at the stake. Again, the horrors were perpetuated by people who "knew not what they were doing" (while imagining and believing that they WERE actually doing something useful and good).

I have no doubt that Hitler truly believed that he was ushering in a wonderful new version of a "advanced man", along with a grand new era (the coming Fourth Reich). He also "knew not what he was doing", as do so many oppressors, villians and brutes, and who actually believe that they are somehow making "things better" by their brutal actions. See, the SAME applies to THEM.

What if the Inquisition priest or the Nazi truly applied Hubbard's above datum, to the heretics and the Jews? In which case the SENIOR aim would be to love and extend compassion to all - no matter WHAT one believed or felt that might enocuorage them to do otherwise.

There are many reasons why people harm others. Agreement with various ideologies is not low on the list of such reasons. The content of various belief systems, whether religious, political or philosophical, have often led to horrendous actions perpetrated on others (in the NAME of some set of beliefs).

While most people respond well to kindness, love, and understanding, they can also become majorly screwed up (damaged mentally and emotionally) by a lack of, or worse, by the opposite of such things, especially if these occur in the early formative points of ones life.

No doubt, it can be difficult to extend tolerance and compassion to brutes and bullies. While I don't like what they do, or how they do it, and I will always do my best to stay away from or get quickly away from such situations, I do understand the many various external and internal circumstances that prod them to do so.

In the end, as I see it, they "know not what they do" (though granted, they truly believe and feel that they do). It is sad. The many injustices that occur here on Earth are sad. I wish it were otherwise.