Is consciousness expansion dead?

JustSheila

Crusader
I read and watch videos on a variety of subjects - it is an area of interest. For instance - I have a lot of interest in what happened during the Younger Dryas. It's a big mystery. Places like Göbeklitepe are reported to be that old. There was a massive cataclysm that wiped out almost all living things over 100 lbs on the North American continent but no one is certain what caused it. Asteroid? The Carolina Bays were ( believed) to be caused at the same time - a theory is that an asteroid hit the ice sheet and massive ice berg sized ice boulders were blasted into suborbital trajectories and hit the eastern sea board, and in Nebraska. If you plot the axis of the oval shaped craters they point to Saginaw Bay in the great lakes.

The theory is that there was a civilization there - advanced enough to create all the megalithic structures left scattered around the globe. The cataclysm wiped them out and whoever survived was left with a stone age existence.

It's very interesting to me - as are a number of subjects. Right now I am interested in stem cell therapy. Particularly umbilical stem cells. I'd like to try it if I can find a place that has some semblance of ethics and won't inject me with dead cellular material. Some people get off on going to Vegas and doing whatever they do there. To each his own.

Mimsey

Mimsey
That's terrific. :) All of that is fascinating to me, too. We know relatively little about ancient civilizations and the events that actually happened in the distant past and are learning more every year. There are (or at least used to be) a lot of history buffs on exscn besides me, too.

You don't have to answer of course if this is too private, but is stem cell therapy just a random interest, or do you have a health issue motivating you ? It's pretty cutting edge, but the risks increase significantly with age, too.

I also like nanotechnology (though it scares me, it really does) and all the new advances in neuroscience and neurosurgery. Biology and anatomy have always fascinated me. And animals. Animals are the best. <3
 

JustSheila

Crusader
It was too real. Also it happened in 1967 - long before I was really well studied in scientology - I was on the DAC, I think, in the NY Academy at the Martinique hotel ball room. I had had some auditing, but I had prior experiences to Scientology of a para-scientific nature, such as when I was in college, running down a flight of stairs - I reached my hand out and caught my Exacta VXIIb camera - I was unaware it's strap snapped. That was a minor premonition. Some stuff with my mom - knowing when she was going to get me from work, going exterior in my college dorm room, a prior life recall, etc.

Mimsey
Thanks, Mimsey.

Of course I've also experienced all sorts of things before Scn, while in Scn, and after Scn. After I left the Sea Org (nine years in, if you remember), I saw how real things can seem in one environment but then just fade again in another. The mind and our ability to believe are powerful things. Our ability to imagine is incredible. Have you ever seen a professional hypnotist show live? I have - and saw a family member who was with me get chosen from the audience and put completely under. Wow!

I once took a drug called Chantix (bupropion, aka Wellbutrin) to quit smoking and had this alarming negative effect with it where daydreams became more and more real and sleep became less and less differentiated from being awake. It happens to a lot of people, which is why it is banned in a lot of countries. I only took it for about four weeks, but I was terrified when I realized my imagination and daydreams were becoming mixed up with reality. Something similar happened to one of my brothers when he tried to take it to quit smoking. It also happened to two other people I knew.

The way I felt on Chantix was something like I felt when I was in Scientology. It sure felt good to be certain of what was real vs. what was in my imagination after I left! Like BTs and concepts of zooming around space and things like that. These days, I can entertain those ideas if I want to do so and even imagine them as real if I want, but I know it's not the same as talking to a friend, either. It all seemed so real at the time, but in another environment, not. It's not real to me anymore and I'm awfully glad I don't think that way now.

When I took drama classes years ago, there was a rule that we should always keep one foot on the stage. I think of it this way, Mimsey - If life is a stage, no matter what, keep a foot grounded in reality, in the shared physical universe that is agreed as real and always remember there is a line between what is real and what is - other stuff. There have been terrible consequences and falls from the stage for those who don't.

Love ya Mims.
 
Thanks, Mimsey.

Of course I've also experienced all sorts of things before Scn, while in Scn, and after Scn. After I left the Sea Org (nine years in, if you remember), I saw how real things can seem in one environment but then just fade again in another. The mind and our ability to believe are powerful things. Our ability to imagine is incredible. Have you ever seen a professional hypnotist show live? I have - and saw a family member who was with me get chosen from the audience and put completely under. Wow!

I once took a drug called Chantix (bupropion, aka Wellbutrin) to quit smoking and had this alarming negative effect with it where daydreams became more and more real and sleep became less and less differentiated from being awake. It happens to a lot of people, which is why it is banned in a lot of countries. I only took it for about four weeks, but I was terrified when I realized my imagination and daydreams were becoming mixed up with reality. Something similar happened to one of my brothers when he tried to take it to quit smoking. It also happened to two other people I knew.

The way I felt on Chantix was something like I felt when I was in Scientology. It sure felt good to be certain of what was real vs. what was in my imagination after I left! Like BTs and concepts of zooming around space and things like that. These days, I can entertain those ideas if I want to do so and even imagine them as real if I want, but I know it's not the same as talking to a friend, either. It all seemed so real at the time, but in another environment, not. It's not real to me anymore and I'm awfully glad I don't think that way now.

When I took drama classes years ago, there was a rule that we should always keep one foot on the stage. I think of it this way, Mimsey - If life is a stage, no matter what, keep a foot grounded in reality, in the shared physical universe that is agreed as real and always remember there is a line between what is real and what is - other stuff. There have been terrible consequences and falls from the stage for those who don't.

Love ya Mims.
Arnie had some intense dreams - he was taking some supplement that gave him lucid dreams and he said (in a post somewhere on ESMB) that he was able to manipulate his dreams. In a way I am glad I fall asleep rather than be awake all night while the body sleeps and be cause over them - they are interesting enough being a minor player in them. I would not like daydreaming taking over my waking awareness. Did you ever see the movie Inception - you make me think of that.

Low back, joints that are stiff mainly sort of pre-emtive on my part - I am going on 71. What it does, if I correctly understand it, is this: The umbilical stem cells reproduce much more rapidly than your own stem cells. They harvest them from donors after they delivered their child. The mom is screened intensely and the tissue is rigoursly tested for disease etc. When they inject the umbilical cells into your knee, for instance, the cells have a lot of repair vectors ( I don't recall the exact terminology) that stimulate the body to fix the area. New tissue can be grown. The new tissue is not the umbilical tissue but yours.

The reason they know this is - they took rats, cut their spinal cord - held it apart, gave the rat injections of human stem cells. The tissue regenerated, and the spinal cord was repaired -it had grown together, but except for some random cells, the new tissue was not human cells, but rat cells.

It sounds really cool, but it is too easy for some sleazy operator to inject who knows what in you. So finding a reputable company is on a par with finding a honest used car dealer. In the below video - Mel Gibson discusses the procedure his dad went through - they typically charge $25K. I'd like to find a cheaper place but not so cheap I "open the door to incorrect technology".:bleh:

If you like animals - try the book: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home. In the google link you can read more about what it covers - it's a fun read.

"How do cats know when it's time to go to the vet, even before the cat carrier comes out? How do dogs know when their owners are returning home at unexpected times? How can horses find their way back to the stable over completely unfamiliar terrain?
After five years of extensive research involving thousands of people who have pets and work with animals, Dr. Sheldrake proves conclusively what many pet owners already know: there is a strong connection between humans and animals that defies present-day scientific understanding. Sheldrake compellingly demonstrates that we and our pets are social animals linked together by invisible bonds connecting animals to each other, to their owners, and to their homes in powerful ways. His provocative ideas about these social, or morphic, fields explain the uncanny behavior often observed in pets and help provide an explanation for amazing animal behavior in the wild, such as migration and homing.
Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home not only provides fascinating insight into animal, and human, behavior, but also teaches us to question the boundaries of conventional scientific thought, and shows that the very animals who are closest to us have much to teach us about biology, nature, and consciousness."

https://www.amazon.com/Dogs-That-Their-Owners-Coming/dp/0307885968

Mimsey


 
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Veda

Sponsor
41CtGDO9-7L._SX346_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Stanford Research Institute experimental psychologist Keith Harary, and Russell Targ, a physicist also from Stanford, wrote a book titled 'Mind Race' (as in 'space race'). It contains a section on the exploitation of psychic phenomena, or the promise of psychic phenomena, by cults.

Both were well aware of Scientology, and had worked with Ingo Swann, who had done Scientology's "OT levels," and later (after leaving) described them as "disappointing." Swann claims to have been a natural psychic since childhood.

From the book, 'Mind Race':

You won't find these groups listed under 'cults' in the Yellow pages. For income tax and public relations purposes, most refer to themselves as 'Churches'. But cults differ from traditional churches in several important ways...
In our society, a person who is beginning to experience emerging psychic abilities, or who is interested in doing so, has almost nowhere to turn for guidance. Anyone with a purely scholarly interest in Psi research can write to various laboratories or read the research reports. But this information probably will not be of much practical personal use...
This is the dilemma that leads many people to join cults in the first place. By accepting and exploiting psychic phenomena in a society that does not readily accept them, cults have effectively monopolized the subject of psi. They have exploited many people who are interested in learning about the area, and frightened many others away from ever considering the possibility...
People are often drawn into cults that claim to offer explanations for psychic functioning, but at great personal, emotional, and financial expense to their followers. We think that giving away your mind is too high a price to pay for psychic development...
For some people, the exposure to the possibility of developing their own psychic potential, which some cults appear to provide, may initially help certain individuals pay attention to areas of their own awareness that they might not otherwise consider exploring.
But prolonged exposure to any cult's treatment of psychic abilities may seriously restrict the way its initiates view psychic functioning. And it may keep them from fully developing their actual psychic potential...
Despite claims to the contrary by numerous factions, there is no evidence of an exclusive relationship between psychic functioning and any particular leader, doctrine , or way of life. Scientific evidence does strongly suggest that the ability to function psychically is a genuine human capacity which, for many people, seems to improve with practice.




 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
"That semi-conscious state, semi-dream state that is supposed to be so ideal for psychics is the same state that is ideal for imagination. If and until the two can be safely separated, you, me and everyone else really don't know which part is imagination, random fractions of memories, analytical evaluations and which parts are actual perceptions. Nobody has ever been able to separate that, control it and prove it conclusively."

You might read Russel Targ's book - the reality of ESP - he goes into that a bit. It is an interesting read - goes into his ESP and remote viewing research they did for the CIA - he describes the various remote viewing experiments.

In the book he describes how they would send a researcher to a location unknown to the test subject. For example, the test was arranged to start at 2 pm. The researcher would view a particular landmark, such as a colossal library or a tank farm. The test subject would then Tune in? Pick up on vibes? or however she / he did it, and make a drawing /description of what she/he observed.

Then when the researcher returned they would compare results. Pretty interesting - the book has the original drawings and photographs of the object the researcher took at the time. here's an example:

Targexample.jpg
1. You don't know what the protocols and controls were for that test. You blindly assume that the above graphics "must be" correct because they are in a book! Didn't you learn anything from your excellent adventure with L. Ron Hubbard? LOL

Here's something fun and informative to read about your source, Targ, regarding his "scientific" methodology.

Targ and Puthoff, whom Randi refers to as the Laurel and Hardy of psi research, were not put off by the fact that Swann claimed he saw a 30,000 ft. mountain range on Jupiter on his astral voyage when there is no such thing. It is hard to imagine why anyone would have faith in such claims. If I told you that I had been to your home town and had seen a 30,000 ft. high mountain there, and you knew there was no such mountain, would you think I had really visited your town even if I correctly pointed out that there is a river nearby and it sometimes floods? Swann, in a lovely ad hoc hypothesis, now claims that astral travel is so fast that he probably wasn't seeing Jupiter but another planet in another solar system! There really is a big mountain out there on some planet in some solar system in some galaxy.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
No, but one time I exteriorized and then interiorized into a stapler - it's tone level is total effect. It was quite an experience, brief though it was. Why a stapler? I was on course and holding one in my hand wondered what it would be like to be a stapler - I was quite surprised when I did it. Never suspected that depth of feeling it had.

Mimsey
please tell us you are trolling.

for god's sake, please be trolling and not actually believing the crap you are writing. lol

if you were trolling would you actually admit it? Maybe we can get an OT to telepathically read your mind and let us know.
 
1. You don't know what the protocols and controls were for that test. You blindly assume that the above graphics "must be" correct because they are in a book! Didn't you learn anything from your excellent adventure with L. Ron Hubbard? LOL

Here's something fun and informative to read about your source, Targ, regarding his "scientific" methodology.
As usual you attack something you didn't bother to read. Instead you looked for some debunking post.

That, my friend is - L A Z Y. You have no basis to evaluate their comments because you won't deign to read / watch the source material.

Next...

Mimsey
 
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please tell us you are trolling.

for god's sake, please be trolling and not actually believing the crap you are writing. lol

if you were trolling would you actually admit it? Maybe we can get an OT to telepathically read your mind and let us know.
You see, that is precisely my point in my earlier post about you (#16) you are blind to the possibility it happened.

As long as you hold on to your fixed ideas, you will be as relevant as Hubbard's tech, the buggy whip, the _______ fill in the blank.

I like you but, if you refuse to look beyond your prison of belief - your posts will continue to miss their mark. They won't contribute. They will detract. Is that your goal?

Mimsey
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You see, that is precisely my point in my earlier post about you (#16) you are blind to the possibility it happened.

As long as you hold on to your fixed ideas, you will be as relevant as Hubbard's tech, the buggy whip, the _______ fill in the blank.

I like you but, if you refuse to look beyond your prison of belief - your posts will continue to miss their mark. They won't contribute. They will detract. Is that your goal?

Mimsey
lol lol lol lol lol

absurdity

I work in real technology. Science. patent offices...experiments. proof of concept, markets that test and demand performance, competitors that push functionality to the limits. real world stuff.

yet there you are, blithely ranting about how I am in a "prison of belief".

pure buffoonery.

and on top of that you have no idea what i believe is possible or not. you made all that up for yourself and then communicated it telepathically to yourself.

you have no idea how ridiculous you look lecturing someone who professionally works on research and technology, innovation and real world confirmations with real people and real solutions that either do or don't work.

enjoy your wacky world of superstition and sanctimonious sermonizing--- I still hope you are trolling and not stupid enough to actually believe the weird delusional shit you write. lol
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I have gone back and forth over the years, alternately, guessing that Mimsey is just:

--unfathomably uniformed
OR​
--trolling

I go back and forth, unable to conclude which it is.

Today I am on the side of HE IS DEFINITELY TROLLING. About 96% sure that is right.

Maybe I'll change my opinion tomorrow. lol..

But for now, it seems inconceivable that someone would post the densely stupid things he does AND additionally populate his posts with Hubbard's moronic lexicon of "tech terms".

Nobody is that fucked up, right?

lol
 
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Leland

Crusader
If I recall correctly....Ingo Swann said in an Advance Mag article of which he was on the Cover....that he got his OT abilities from doing the SHSBC....

Anyway, That SRI stuff kinda got me into the Cult...back in the 1970's
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
No, but one time I exteriorized and then interiorized into a stapler - it's tone level is total effect. It was quite an experience, brief though it was. Why a stapler? I was on course and holding one in my hand wondered what it would be like to be a stapler - I was quite surprised when I did it. Never suspected that depth of feeling it had.

Mimsey
So, your stapler had great depth of feeling huh? I know what you mean, my old washing machine got quite upset when it heard that I was thinking of replacing it with a newer model.

Seriously though, it's when you come out with stuff like this that I really begin wondering about your 'psychological equilibrium' Mimsey.
 
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strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I loved those 60's posters from the Avalon Ballroom and Fillmore West etc. I was given a Fillmore West poster by an American girl who was studying in the London Org academy. It had the usual suspects on it, you know, Country Joe and the Fish, Iron Butterfly, etc. I gave it away, something I still regret to this day.

She also gave me a healthy dose of the clap, but that's another story. :biggrin:
 
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So, your stapler had great depth of feeling huh? I know what you mean, my old washing machine got quite upset when it heard that I was thinking of replacing it with a newer model.

Seriously though, it's when you come out with stuff like this that I really begin wondering about your 'psychological equilibrium' Mimsey.
I had no expectations - I was surprised there was any emotion at all.

My point is this - if a person doesn't think it is possible to interiorize into some object other than his /her body, or another body, (edit) the inevitable a possible conclusion must be that the person does not believe him/herself to be a spiritual being. He/she may say so, but what does he really believe down deep?

Why, if the person is a spiritual being, can't he interiorize into anything under the sun moon and stars?

What is your response to that?

And don't attack my use of the terminology - that is a dodge. You could call it an out of body - into a solid body experience if you wish, the action is the same.

Mimsey
 
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strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I had no expectations - I was surprised there was any emotion at all.

My point is this - if a person doesn't think it is possible to interiorize into some object other than his /her body, or another body, the inevitable conclusion must be that the person does not believe him/herself to be a spiritual being. He/she may say so, but what does he really believe down deep?

Why, if the person is a spiritual being, can't he interiorize into anything under the sun moon and stars?

What is your response to that?

And don't attack my use of the terminology - that is a dodge. You could call it an out of body - into a solid body experience if you wish, the action is the same.

Mimsey
First of all, I don't see why there should automatically be a link between a person as a spiritual being and this phenomenon of 'exteriorisation/interiorisation'. You use this terminology, but what does interiorisation mean exactly apart from the blindingly obvious 'being inside something?' Do you become an iron atom like all the other iron atoms in the stapler? It's all too vague and 'airy-fairy' mate.
 
If I recall correctly....Ingo Swann said in an Advance Mag article of which he was on the Cover....that he got his OT abilities from doing the SHSBC....

Anyway, That SRI stuff kinda got me into the Cult...back in the 1970's
That's not what I recall. But, it could be. I didn't read all of them. Anyway - here's something from a blog about Ingo followed by a snippet from Wiki, which is pretty much opposed to any research of this nature:

"In 1971 Ingo Swann was at the American Society of Psychical Research in New York, participating in a series of experiments being conducted. They were focusing on OOB or OOBE – meaning Out of Body and Out of Body Experiences, respectively.

Ingo wrote an auto-biography in 1996 titled: Remote-Viewing The Real Story: An Autobiographical Memoir.
He described that in early October 1971, he began working with Dr. Karlis Osis at American Society for Psychical Research (ASPR). As I mentioned earlier, they were focusing on Out of Body Experiences (OOBE).
In Chapter 12 of his memoir, we find Swann saying –
My only reservation was that I did not have the least idea of how to float up to the ceiling. I was well aware of the famous OOB phenomena reported world-wide and since antiquity.
I had gotten all of the appropriate books, tried everything suggested in them, to little apparent avail.
Although many, including some of Osis’s other subjects, claimed they could “go OOB at will,” evidence of this was quite slim.
[…] if anyone could go OOB at will, then the world would certainly be a different place, and psychic spying in the OOB state would have already been incorporated into you know where. In 1971 out-of-body experiencing had not yet been hysterically hyped as it was soon to be.
I told Osis that I believed OOB to consist only of spontaneous factors, and usually within some kind of unusual situation, and that I did not know how to do it.
More, including pictures, at: https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.co...eriorize-after-he-did-scientologys-ot-levels/

Wiki:

Biography[edit]
Swann was a claimed psychic who called himself a "consciousness researcher" who had sometimes experienced "altered states of consciousness." He said, "I don't get 'tested', I only work with researchers on well-designed experiments."[5] According to Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff, "Swann-inspired innovations" have led to impressive results in parapsychology. Indeed, experiments not controlled by Swann have not been successful, and they are rarely mentioned, and if so, only in passing.[6][7]
Remote viewing[edit]
Swann helped develop the process of remote viewing at the Stanford Research Institute in experiments that caught the attention of the Central Intelligence Agency. He is commonly credited with proposing the idea of controlled remote viewing, a process in which viewers would view a location given nothing but its geographical coordinates, which was developed and tested by Puthoff and Targ with CIA funding.[4][8]

Brain activity during remote viewing[edit]
In November 2001, there was an article by Michael Persinger published in The Journal of Neuropsychiatry & Clinical Neurosciences. The results with Swann suggested that during his remote viewing there were associated measurable changes in brain activity. There was bipolar electroencephalographic activity over the occipital, temporal and frontal lobes. Persinger concluded that there was "significant congruence" between the stimuli and Swann's electroencephalographic activity.[40]

Psychic detectives[edit]
Swann reported that out of the twenty-five criminal cases he worked between 1972 and 1979, twenty-two were flops and three were successes.[41][42] According to Swann, Gerard Croiset[43] and Peter Hurkos[44] were super sensitive sleuths.[45] Authors Arthur Lyons and Marcello Truzzi Ph.D., also a founder of the International Remote Viewing Association,[46] wrote the Croiset and Hurkos cases were "pure bunk" in their 1991 book The Blue Sense: Psychic Detectives and Crime.
 
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