Is consciousness expansion dead?

[Veda]

I got to know Ingo Swann in July of '72 when I was just 17 and volunteering on staff at TC org. He was by far the most enthusiastic personality I had ever met and we used to talk exteriorization and "OT" powers at great lengths. He'd hang out in the reception area, sitting on the couch and shooting the breeze with anyone that cared to talk with him as he just seemed to like everyone. He was very real and in no way phony at all and we really hit it off. He was only there for a couple of weeks, I don't remember why or where he disappeared to. I didn't know that I would ever hear his name again.

-snip-

Does it seem strange to you - considering the supposed importance of Scientology to the return of Ingo's psychic abilities - that he acted as though Scientology didn't exist, and completey ignored his auditing and training in Scientology, when conversing with non Scientologists?

Was he completely honest when he spoke to you in Scientology?

He certainly wasn't completely honest when his discussed his experiences with non Scientologists.

 

[DagwoodGum]

I believe he got his power processing at NYO. I was on lines there at about that time there, though I never met him. There were some class 7 & 8 auditors delivering power to the staff, per the contract, and it's not a stretch to see them delivering it to him.

Mimsey

Yes if you mean Ingo because he talked alot about his Power Processing in glowing terms and was really looking forward to his OT levels, but he was very well versed in psychic type subject matter. I don't think he ever got into what was his background as his focus was entirely on the bright future he was heading for, That was the basis of his somewhat giddy hyper-enthusiasm.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I can see how someone would like power processing if it were done right. It's an interesting set of processes. One of the first things I did when it became obvious I was never going back to Scientology was to find the power processes HCOBs on line. They are quite interesting. For a while in the late 60's they were being quickied - there are specific EP's you run the process to and some idiot got the idea to run them to F/N - big time flub. For a while I was thinking of having Trey run them on me, but I since gave up on the idea.

Mimsey

 

[JustSheila]

In response to comments above on why folks might post here on ESMB . . .

I disagree that it is only because of or due to vanity or the overcoming of feelings of personal "inferiority or inadequacy" . . . . That type of comment can only be true in the mind of and thus be the condition resisted by the person making such comment.

I have seen a number of good folks here making comments out of the genuine wish to inform others of useful information, a wish to help, and to answer the questions of others.

No, of course it's not only vanity. I stated that was an example of a worst case scenario and I was careful of my wording, too.

But it's not an uncommon example or reason, either. Since I'm giving Bible examples, well, it goes back thousands of years, to where the Pharaoh brought his sorcerer out to Moses to find out who had the most powerful god, then the sorcerer turned his staff into a snake and then Moses' own snake demolished the sorcerers' snake like it was nothing, leaving the reader wondering if the sorcerer's snake was just an illusion after all.

I'll bet you haven't thought of that story in decades. Moses was certainly a real historical figure and so were the pharaohs. Was the story real? On some level, I'm sure it was. Maybe even a literal level. Pharaohs were always employing sorcerers. Who knows what sort of alchemy, illusions, technologies, etc. they had in Egypt back then? Someone who believes in OT powerz and magic might take that story at literal, face value. Fair enough, then.

For those who choose to take the story literally, the story has its own message just for them, for those who believe in OT powerz and magic and who might have seen or experienced some things in their lives that could not be explained. In short, anything we might consider our personal supernatural or OT powerz have no real substance or power and are little more than illusion. That is the lesson, whether you choose to accept it or not.

That it came up in the Bible shows that people have been attracted to OT powerz and trying to obtain them and be the most powerful personal sorcerer for centuries. Yet it didn't happen (except in the Bible, Moses asked GOD to do it and He did, but I'm not trying to proselytize any religions here). The centuries of failure hasn't stopped people from making the same claims they always did, though, and believing they can do it. Millions of hours over thousands of years, maybe tens of thousands of years, and still nothing but the wispiest ghosts of OT powerz haphazardly showing themselves, if even that. That's a fail. But in marketing, there will always be people searching for those powers and believing in their ability to obtain them and control them while alive. It was always that way, apparently, and always will be.

So some people want to use powers for good, okay. Some people want to share their experiences. Okay. Mims has always been a pretty pleasant guy and I'm sure he means well. But if the Bible, a book written thousands of years ago, can warn others that it's a useless path and others are warning the same thing today whether atheists, exes or from any other background, then maybe it's just a huge distraction and doesn't have anything to do with becoming a better person. That's what I believe. But I don't mean to insinuate that you and Mims aren't good-hearted. I know you are.

 

[ThetanExterior]

Let's say someone has super powers - levitation, bi-location, instant healing, telekinesis and everything else you can think of. When someone else hears of this they will obviously say they don't believe it unless they see it. So the first person demonstrates his/her abilities and the second person is electrified and tells everyone they know about what they've seen. So what do these people do? They say they won't believe it unless they see it themselves.

So the first person has to demonstrate these abilities to all of these other people and they go away and tell everyone they know about these abilities. But everyone who hears about it says they won't believe it unless they see it and so on it goes ad infinitum.

In other words, if someone really did have super powers and told someone about it then they must be prepared to spend the rest of their life being a performing monkey. I haven't even mentioned the media finding out about it and demanding interviews, demonstrations etc. At no point would this reach a conclusion where everyone was satisfied that this person had super powers and they would leave him/her alone. That just wouldn't happen. He/she would be plagued for the rest of their life by people wanting a demonstration, an interview or whatever.

Now for the "conspiracy theory" part of this scenario. If someone like the US government heard that a person really did have super powers what would they do? Well I think they would be scared that this person could teach others how to get these powers and there would be an army of super people roaming around who couldn't be controlled. So the government wouldn't want to let this happen. They would try to force this person to work for them, to try to create their own army of super people and if that didn't work then they would at least want to contain this person and stop him/her from helping others to develop these powers. Obviously, if this person really did have super powers then the government wouldn't be able to contain him/her but they could make life difficult in all kinds of ways in order to make this person submit to them. They could target the person's family, or wipe their credit records/ID or whatever.

These are just some of my thoughts about the subject. One of the things some people like to trot out is that if someone had super powers then they would have demonstrated them to James Randi and won a million dollars. But if I had super powers there is no way I would broadcast it to the world. I would just do whatever it is I want to do with my life and not let anyone know what powers I had. To go public with it would be a disastrous move in my opinion.

ETA: This is also why there are no OTs in scientology. If they were capable of making OTs then they would be shut down.

 

[strativarius]

I can see how someone would like power processing if it were done right. It's an interesting set of processes. One of the first things I did when it became obvious I was never going back to Scientology was to find the power processes HCOBs on line. They are quite interesting. For a while in the late 60's they were being quickied - there are specific EP's you run the process to and some idiot got the idea to run them to F/N - big time flub. For a while I was thinking of having Trey run them on me, but I since gave up on the idea.

Mimsey

Yes, running the 'power processes' simply to f/n is a massive technical error. Any fool could tell you that. These processes require the expertise of a highly-trained operative to produce the correct end phenomena. Of course, all that goes without saying since they are part of the scientology route to total freedom which has produced hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of liberated beings through the correct application of the infallible package of scientology processes created by our beloved founder L. Ron Hubbard. All you need to do is look look around at all the Clears and OT's that are busy clearing the planet to see how powerful and effective these processes are in furthering the plan that is well on course to reach its objective in only a few short years from now.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Yes, running the 'power processes' simply to f/n is a massive technical error. Any fool could tell you that. These processes require the expertise of a highly-trained operative to produce the correct end phenomena. Of course, all that goes without saying since they are part of the scientology route to total freedom which has produced hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of liberated beings through the correct application of the infallible package of scientology processes created by our beloved founder L. Ron Hubbard. All you need to do is look look around at all the Clears and OT's that are busy clearing the planet, a plan that is well on course to reach its objective in only a few short years from now.

It just occurred to me that those who got the quickie clear designations, "natural clear" like I got, "past life clear" like many got, were put on a path that didn't include the "power processes", I've even forgotten what they were or are?
Getting back to Ingo Swan, I remember reading on this board where he was quoted as saying essentially that "I wasn't much impressed with what I found on the "OT levels".

 

[strativarius]

It just occurred to me that those who got the quickie clear designations, "natural clear" like I got, "past life clear" like many got, were put on a path that didn't include the "power processes", I've even forgotten what they were or are?
Getting back to Ingo Swan, I remember reading on this board where he was quoted as saying essentially that "I wasn't much impressed with what I found on the "OT levels".

Well, I got 'em. Alan Gilbertson ran them on me as part of my staff package around 1968/9. You can find them on the 'net easily enough if you look I'm sure. "What is...", "Tell me an existing condition..." stuff like that if I remember correctly.

 

[TomKat]

Does it seem strange to you - considering the supposed importance of Scientology to the return of Ingo's psychic abilities - that he acted as though Scientology didn't exist, and completey ignored his auditing and training in Scientology, when conversing with non Scientologists?

Was he completely honest when he spoke to you in Scientology?

He certainly wasn't completely honest when his discussed his experiences with non Scientologists.

Were you ever in Scientology? I suspect not, based on this.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Were you ever in Scientology? I suspect not, based on this.

Who are you asking?

 

[TomKat]

Who are you asking?

the person I quoted, Veda

 

[DagwoodGum]

the person I quoted, Veda

Oh, I know why that part of your post doesn't show on my screen. Anytime I get jumped by the pack of hyena's that just live and love to pile on when one of their anointed elites gets in a clash with me get's put on my ignore list.
Scientology is on a caste system and some are far too indoctrinated in all that to ever let it go, too many years in I'd guess.
People who became Scientologists in their formative years seem to have difficulty letting it all go if they waited way beyond their formative years to get out and become something other than a Scientologist.
Those are the people who lifted Scientology off the printed page and brought it all to life.
But they're just not part of my personal path to happiness.

 

[DagwoodGum]

One thought I have on the nature of consciousness expansion is that, for me and I suspect many others, it was popularized by the psychedelic era where people tried to attain advanced states of awareness in ways that did not require the use of hallucinogenics.
The Beatles brought into view the consciousness that they may have come to through the use of LSD primarily.
Then they proceeded to pursue meditation in India and it fueled a desire in the rest of us to "be like the Beatles" and we took off in all kinds of crazed pursuits of mind expansion, some through drugs and others through all the various religions and mind expansion trips that some purely capitalized upon like L. Ron Hubbard.
So it sowed the seeds of traps being lain in our paths by devious lunatics such as he.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

One thought I have on the nature of consciousness expansion is that, for me and I suspect many others, it was popularized by the psychedelic era where people tried to attain advanced states of awareness in ways that did not require the use of hallucinogenics.
The Beatles brought into view the consciousness that they may have come to through the use of LSD primarily.
Then they proceeded to pursue meditation in India and it fueled a desire in the rest of us to "be like the Beatles" and we took off in all kinds of crazed pursuits of mind expansion, some through drugs and others through all the various religions and mind expansion trips that some purely capitalized upon like L. Ron Hubbard.
So it sowed the seeds of traps being lain in our paths by devious lunatics such as he.

Hubbard was dong his shtick since the 50's - the hippies just flocked to the spiritual freedom Scientology promulgated. I never thought of that connection, though I sort of fit that category. I did some drugs in college, I thought it was a dead end, I was interested in spiritual awareness, and when Ron Saffron told me about whole track after my intro session, I was kinda hooked. I really wanted to find out about my whole track.

Mimsey

 

[strativarius]

Hubbard was dong his shtick since the 50's

Was he now? Someone should have told him that he could have gone blind!

 

[DagwoodGum]

Hubbard was dong his shtick since the 50's - the hippies just flocked to the spiritual freedom Scientology promulgated. I never thought of that connection, though I sort of fit that category. I did some drugs in college, I thought it was a dead end, I was interested in spiritual awareness, and when Ron Saffron told me about whole track after my intro session, I was kinda hooked. I really wanted to find out about my whole track.

Mimsey

Yes, and because he had such a head start on the psychedelic generation he had plenty of insights as to just how to hook em and reel em in through his preposterous "technology" of the mind.
I only tried what was called something like "orange sunshine" once, a 1/4 tab and actually saw glowing imagery of palm trees blowing in the breeze with Ron standing in front of them beckoning me to come and join the Sea Org while reading sea org promo up in my room, which I nearly did.
Powerful are the powers of suggestion!
I had never even heard of Alistair Crowley and his lot when I got initially involved simply by reading Scientology books that had been donated to the local library, probably be the brother of my middle school friend that kept blowing from his post at ASHO and coming back to northern Ohio to live with his wealthy parents.
Oddly, I just received a used copy CD of the Beatles Revolver along with the White Album, Magical Mystery Tour and another title I don't remember off of Ebay for a great package price. Just got them the other day in fact. Had to have had something to do with that Ted thread where we discussed the Paul vs Faul issue or non issue as the case may be.
Although, this may have been a test designed by the Hoaxster to ascertain whether we do in fact possess OT abilities by "intending" a specific Beatles CD to pick out and seeing whether we pass or fail. I suspect that I failed by selecting 4 CD's, hoping that one would be correct. You however, nailed it by selecting the one and only one correct CD and thereby answered the issue of questionable OTness permanently and resoundingly. Provides proof of a certain intrinsic psychic bond the two have you have developed posting here all these years as well! Well fucking done, both of you!

Beatles Disk-set

 

[Veda]

Were you ever in Scientology? I suspect not, based on this.

By October 1971 Ingo Swann would have done the SHSBC, the Clearing Course and up to (old) OT 6, with OT 6 being about the ability to exteriorize at will. (Still looking for a scan of the 1969/early 1970s Grade Chart).

Below, in 1996,he writes about that time period.

I guess you missed my earlier posts wherein I discussed the spontaneous nature of esp. Here's a quote from one of them about Ingo Swann:

"In 1971 Ingo Swann was at the American Society of Psychical Research in New York, participating in a series of experiments being conducted. They were focusing on OOB or OOBE – meaning Out of Body and Out of Body Experiences, respectively.
Ingo wrote an auto-biography in 1996 titled: Remote-Viewing The Real Story: An Autobiographical Memoir.
He described that in early October 1971, he began working with Dr. Karlis Osis at American Society for Psychical Research (ASPR). As I mentioned earlier, they were focusing on Out of Body Experiences (OOBE).
In Chapter 12 of his memoir, we find Swann saying –
My only reservation was that I did not have the least idea of how to float up to the ceiling. I was well aware of the famous OOB phenomena reported world-wide and since antiquity.
I had gotten all of the appropriate books, tried everything suggested in them, to little apparent avail.
Although many, including some of Osis’s other subjects, claimed they could “go OOB at will,” evidence of this was quite slim.
[…] if anyone could go OOB at will, then the world would certainly be a different place, and psychic spying in the OOB state would have already been incorporated into you know where. In 1971 out-of-body experiencing had not yet been hysterically hyped as it was soon to be.
I told Osis that I believed OOB to consist only of spontaneous factors, and usually within some kind of unusual situation, and that I did not know how to do it."
More, including pictures, at: https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.co...eriorize-after-he-did-scientologys-ot-levels/


-snip-

Mimsey

When I first met Ingo Swann (early 1973) it was at a "wog" gathering, and he had no idea I was familiar with Scientology, and we did not discuss Scientology. I got the non Scientology version of Ingo Swann. (Version number 1)

Those who knew him in Scientology (during the same time period) got Ingo, the Scientology version (Version number 2.)

Yes, we recognize that Scientologists are usually embarrassed at being Scientologists, but Ingo was assumed to be someone dedicated to the scientific method, who - as a serious researcher - would report honestly and fully.

Here is Ingo writing - in 1996, 13 years after having left organized Scientology - about his experiences of the early 1970s re. OBE.

Does he mention Scientology? (At least briefly, as a strange cult he examined?) I don't know for sure, but it appears not.

Something is wrong with this picture.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Veda]

-snip-

Getting back to Ingo Swan, I remember reading on this board where he was quoted as saying essentially that "I wasn't much impressed with what I found on the "OT levels".

That sort of comment by Ingo would have occurred either privately or after he left Scientology.

As I recall, after leaving Scientology, Ingo was involved for a time with David Mayo's Advanced Ability Center in Santa Barbara. Then he became involved, during the late 1980s, with Harry Palmer's Avatar. Ingo was very enthusiastic about Avatar, at least while around other Avatar enthusiasts.

He'd still be encountering former Scientologists while involved with Avatar, and would have been inclined (and felt free) to frankly critique Scientology's OT levels.

 

[TomKat]

Oh, I know why that part of your post doesn't show on my screen. Anytime I get jumped by the pack of hyena's that just live and love to pile on when one of their anointed elites gets in a clash with me get's put on my ignore list.
Scientology is on a caste system and some are far too indoctrinated in all that to ever let it go, too many years in I'd guess.
People who became Scientologists in their formative years seem to have difficulty letting it all go if they waited way beyond their formative years to get out and become something other than a Scientologist.
Those are the people who lifted Scientology off the printed page and brought it all to life.
But they're just not part of my personal path to happiness.

Veda was mystified why Ingo did not mention being a Scientologist in the "wog" world, so I asked Veda if he'd ever been in Scn and he confirmed that he was not in fact an "exScn." But apparently the subject has him captivated in some way. Maybe he's writing a book...

 

[DagwoodGum]

Veda was mystified why Ingo did not mention being a Scientologist in the "wog" world, so I asked Veda if he'd ever been in Scn and he confirmed that he was not in fact an "exScn." But apparently the subject has him captivated in some way. Maybe he's writing a book...

I don't know if not being an "exScn" means one is a current one or a never been in one.
As wild and raring to go as Ingo was when I knew him for those brief couple of weeks, he must have been entirely dejected to learn what a cheesy rip off 2nd hand occult version of the real thing it was. I'm sure he would have wanted to never be reminded of his folly ever again.