Is Greg Wilhere Evil or is he Only A Scientologist?

Good twin

Floater
I don't know and never knew Greg. I don't find himn charming. The Scientologists who I used to think of as charming now seem ridiculously pathetic.

I changed.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
:clap: :clap: Another Goood one, HH! :clap:

Oh hey, does anybody got a pic of Greg they could post here?

After much looking I finally found ONE online from 1989.
(I'm trying to upload the picture as an attachment, but I'll link to in case it doesn't work)
Go here and scroll half-way down the page, you see a pic of a bunch of guys in full fake navy attire, with DM in the middle looking at his watch.

Picture Caption
The top of Scientology at their new year event in 1987. From the left: Captain Ray Mithoff, Captain Greg Wilhere, Captain Marc yager, Captain David Miscavige, Commander Norman Starkey, Captain Guillaume Leserve and Captain Mark Ingber
 

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dontscamme

Patron Meritorious
I prefer not to judge whether Greg Wilhere is "evil" or not, although I do not blame others who apply that label to him. I never met him.

As I read BFG's book, when I came to the part where Greg called Marc to tell him that Claire had been recovered, I felt like I had been kicked hard in the stomach, even though I knew that Claire was out and with Marc. One can only guess how Marc must have felt at that instant. That act was indeed evil.
 

auntpat

Patron with Honors
My view of this call

I imagine that Greg was thinking that BGF was at the end of his rope and his furure depended on his wife joining him. Greg probably thought that BFG would hang up the phone and blow his brains out, and when his wife got to him he would be dead. Getting rid of two SPs would be a feather in his cap.

He just didn't realize that they were two very strong and determined people who would make it go right. I just love happy endings.

Love & Light,
Aunt Pat
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
I prefer not to judge whether Greg Wilhere is "evil" or not, although I do not blame others who apply that label to him. I never met him.

As I read BFG's book, when I came to the part where Greg called Marc to tell him that Claire had been recovered, I felt like I had been kicked hard in the stomach, even though I knew that Claire was out and with Marc. One can only guess how Marc must have felt at that instant. That act was indeed evil.

I felt the same... I also knew Claire was out but reading this I was gutted for Marc and distressed for Claire.

The lies and deception used by Wilhere are just so typical and well drilled in..... it's sad to think an individual has become so degraded to treat others in this way.

Although, I often wonder if at a quiet moment the Greg Wilheres, other SO members and staff of this religion, contemplate what they have said or done to others and feel maybe a pang of guilt or upset by these actions.

My own daughter at Flag ... does she wonder about what has occurred in relation to disconnection when she has a quiet moment of reflection???
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
I felt the same... I also knew Claire was out but reading this I was gutted for Marc and distressed for Claire.

The lies and deception used by Wilhere are just so typical and well drilled in..... it's sad to think an individual has become so degraded to treat others in this way.

Although, I often wonder if at a quiet moment the Greg Wilheres, other SO members and staff of this religion, contemplate what they have said or done to others and feel maybe a pang of guilt or upset by these actions.

My own daughter at Flag ... does she wonder about what has occurred in relation to disconnection when she has a quiet moment of reflection???
I dont think they do so much because the viewpoint when you are "in" is sooooo different from when you are out. its like two different planets with two totally different cultures.

Maybe greg wilhere is just being a scientologist in his mind. just "making it go right" and applying "dont be afraid to hurt someone in a just cause!!". who knows?
I mean 30 plus years in the SO, how many times has all that shit been drilled into him and made to hit home?? You can lose "yourself" in there for sure.:confused2:
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
I dont think they do so much because the viewpoint when you are "in" is sooooo different from when you are out. its like two different planets with two totally different cultures.

Maybe greg wilhere is just being a scientologist in his mind. just "making it go right" and applying "dont be afraid to hurt someone in a just cause!!". who knows?
I mean 30 plus years in the SO, how many times has all that shit been drilled into him and made to hit home?? You can lose "yourself" in there for sure.:confused2:



As well as working with DM a great deal of time.:angry::bigcry:

Opter
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Greg was the first CO AOSH ANZO and was remembered fondly by many of us from that time. I personally had little to do with him but saw him in action "handling" people with that attentive gaze and big blue eyes - it worked a treat. I heard no-one ever belittle or denigrate him in any way but rather he was spoken of in awe and his anecdotes about being on the ship with LRH were still being passed on many years later.

I had a fair bit to do with his son, Darius, when I was at FSO training. Darius was there as a 12 year old training up to be an auditor. He so wanted to be like his dad who he obviously adored that it was heart-wrenching to watch this kid so serious about what he was doing. I remember seeing him with a bunch of other kids at dinnertime at the Hacienda on his skateboard trying to be a kid but still coming across as someone with an enormous amount of responsibility put on young shoulders and by himself with no parents or other family around to help. He could never really interact with others his own age. It left me with ambivalent feelings towards an organization that would do this to a 12 year old boy. He was a great kid but getting so screwed by the "now you are supposed to"s that a young member of the SO was put through. My friends who were SO members there saw him as a role model, someone all kids should emulate.

I hope he finds some peace some day and makes a good life for himself regardless of how he's been treated by this cult.

Personally, I have little time for a parent who would do that to their son, regardless of how indoctrinated they themselves are.

It reminds me of the sacrifices to Moloch too much.
 
Greg Wilhere may have been indoctrinated etc, etc, etc.

Is it imaginable (not likely or probable) that he could decide for himself that he is or was evil, based on his actions.

If you had done what he did, is it imaginable, that you could label yourself evil?

Man is basically good. "basically" = the most over-used word by scientologists?
Man is basically good. LRH said so.
How about "Man is basically evil".
Seems just as true to me. World history is evidence.
 
Man is basically good. LRH said so.
How about "Man is basically evil".
Seems just as true to me. World history is evidence.

I think men and women are both basically evil and good. i don't know anyone, personally, who is all one or the other.

The "man is basically good" slogan is a "feel good" sort of thing, rooted in hog wash. We all want to feel that we are good, but I keep finding areas to own, that invalidates the hell out of that line.

I'll take Clint Eastwood movies over Mr. Rogers any day.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Similar Thoughts

I felt the same... I also knew Claire was out but reading this I was gutted for Marc and distressed for Claire.

The lies and deception used by Wilhere are just so typical and well drilled in..... it's sad to think an individual has become so degraded to treat others in this way.

Although, I often wonder if at a quiet moment the Greg Wilheres, other SO members and staff of this religion, contemplate what they have said or done to others and feel maybe a pang of guilt or upset by these actions.

My own daughter at Flag ... does she wonder about what has occurred in relation to disconnection when she has a quiet moment of reflection???

I have had all of the same thoughts as yours.

Scientology did attract many who just wanted to be right, regardless of what was really right. :bigcry:


Incidentally I saw Marc & Claire recently and they both look real good.

They don't manifest the ill effects of the "Church" that most of us do. :thumbsup:

I suspect their lawsuits and his book fighting the suppression has much to do with that.

With their two young sons they look like the model family. :)
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
Any News ??

If anyone as news of Greg's first wife-Sandy Stevens Wilhere--please post it on this thread. Thanks.
 

Carmel

Crusader
If anyone as news of Greg's first wife-Sandy Stevens Wilhere--please post it on this thread. Thanks.
Sorry it's not good news Uncle Sam, but I heard a couple of weeks ago from a mate of mine who knew them all well, that Sandy did pass away around a year and a half ago, as a result of the MS.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Forty years ago-Greg-myself and several other guys--were in college and were very good friends--then along came the "cult"---I met and was friendly with Greg's brother Hugh [OSA] and his sister Kathy [out] and also his parents[never in].
Out of the 4 guys--all our still IN with myself being the lone exception of being - so very "out".
Greg called me once in 1982 to tell me - that I was not "expelled" and was "ok" to be on lines--that is all. I have heard from several others who know him that he enjoyed a great rep as a tech terminal and as a person.
What happened to Greg by his own making is so fucking sad-we all have decisions and choices to make in life-some of these are extremely important-Greg made his and he'll have to pay the consequences-so be it!
It is so very fucking sad---from being a great guy to being a "patsy" for the "cult"--he has made it so.......

Shit. So many lives perverted, destroyed. I used to want him out, now as far as I am concerned he is exactly where he belongs. Uncle Sammy, we are so fortunate! Kathy is also so fortunate! It is so sad for his parents, who have lost two sons to this sick sick gulag. Don't know what else to say--I thought I had moved on from the depravity of Scn, but this brought it all back.

I thank God every day of my life that I got away from FCDC. It was kind of funny how I just walked out because Lorraine Scheffler was bugging me about a stop payment on a check...even though at the time I kind of wanted to fuck her, money was more important to me and the reason I said aloha. There was much more going on, but no one stopped me. Guess I didn't meet the "$$$" test...not enough of a loss to them to come chase me. :)

This evil needs to be stopped.
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
Let us talley Greg's stats!

Sorry it's not good news Uncle Sam, but I heard a couple of weeks ago from a mate of mine who knew them all well, that Sandy did pass away around a year and a half ago, as a result of the MS.

Greg's been "in' the so for 40 years.
He is on his 2nd wife [first wife -- died]
He was told to divorce wife # 1 and did so.
He pimped for Tom Cruise--he went on a coast to coast mission to find the ideal scn wife for cruise.
He has one son-Darius-who joined the so and has had his share of trouble.
He has spent time in the 'sp hall' and had to fight others[physically to get his chair].
He called and lied to Marc Headly so as to "cave him in".
His whole life is his own worse punishment- a life- spent being a minion to a lunatic and his minion the tiny tyrant.
 
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