Is Greg Wilhere Evil or is he Only A Scientologist?

bts2free

Patron with Honors
I personally knew Greg Wilhere as well as Marty Rathbun and neither of them are evil. They are both heavily brainwashed individuals running on a program and that is all. They believe they are doing "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics," anything for the sake and safety of Scientology, and that is the major command. I was one of them once, but I got lucky and woke up. Marty appears to be further down the "wake-up" road than Greg at this point. But who knows? Judge them by their actions, not their words.
 
I personally knew Greg Wilhere as well as Marty Rathbun and neither of them are evil. They are both heavily brainwashed individuals running on a program and that is all. They believe they are doing "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics," anything for the sake and safety of Scientology, and that is the major command. I was one of them once, but I got lucky and woke up. Marty appears to be further down the "wake-up" road than Greg at this point. But who knows? Judge them by their actions, not their words.

would it be fair to say, "weak willed, and weak minded, lacking integrity, doing evil things"?

---like the Nazis of the last century, who were tried at Nuremberg.

I think Charlie Rush falls totally into the brainwashed category also, but I have never known Charlie to deliberately hurt anyone. There is brainwashed, and then there is willing to do evil. --ie. hurt people, break up marriages, ....
 
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I personally knew Greg Wilhere as well as Marty Rathbun and neither of them are evil. They are both heavily brainwashed individuals running on a program and that is all. They believe they are doing "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics," anything for the sake and safety of Scientology, and that is the major command. I was one of them once, but I got lucky and woke up. Marty appears to be further down the "wake-up" road than Greg at this point. But who knows? Judge them by their actions, not their words.

I have never met Rathbun. The "brainwashed" argument doesn't appeal to me much. Forgetting about whether or not he is evil, anyone who can read can get a good idea of his ability to spin information and manipulate people. It takes insight to do that, and he had a job where that sort of thing was his job AFAIK and he was very highly placed, so presumably, effective. So I think I see insight and self serving combined with ability and a willingness to deal with or deal "to" anyone that he does not like. All of these things seem to make the brainwashed plea (by others) incongruous or contradictory. The information that he uses in a positive way and the information he uses in a negative way is carefully selected. He is no zombie. He is in charge of himself and attempting to be in the charge of as many others as possible.

If Marty is so clever (which I think he is), how come he is so brainwashed in the "I admire Ron and Ron's tech" coolaid. Answer: He isn't. It's a con. That seems to be as unpalatable for some (not necssarily you, bts), as thinking that Ron wasn't Kosher. Heaven forbid.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I have never met Rathbun. The "brainwashed" argument doesn't appeal to me much. Forgetting about whether or not he is evil, anyone who can read can get a good idea of his ability to spin information and manipulate people. It takes insight to do that, and he had a job where that sort of thing was his job AFAIK and he was very highly placed, so presumably, effective. So I think I see insight and self serving combined with ability and a willingness to deal with or deal "to" anyone that he does not like. All of these things seem to make the brainwashed plea (by others) incongruous or contradictory. The information that he uses in a positive way and the information he uses in a negative way is carefully selected. He is no zombie. He is in charge of himself and attempting to be in the charge of as many others as possible.

If Marty is so clever (which I think he is), how come he is so brainwashed in the "I admire Ron and Ron's tech" coolaid. Answer: He isn't. It's a con. That seems to be as unpalatable for some (not necssarily you, bts), as thinking that Ron wasn't Kosher. Heaven forbid.

If he wants people on his side then he has to use the "LRH good, DM bad" argument because that is what people want to hear.
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
If he wants people on his side then he has to use the "LRH good, DM bad" argument because that is what people want to hear.

That's what worked well for L. Ron, telling people what they want to hear. And giving them 'tools' to shield themselves against what they do not want to hear.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
But who knows? Judge them by their actions, not their words.

That's the main problem, their actions have been just as bad as their words. I mean if it was only "words" I doubt there would be this much discussion, the fact is both have committed truly awful actions against their fellow human beings and even fellow scientologists. Judging them by their actions doesn't put them in any better light unfortunately.

(See the OP of this thread; Greg calling Marc just to lie and taunt him that is wife was lost to him for no other discernible reason than sadistic pleasure. No greater good for the dynamic BS going on there)
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
would it be fair to say, "weak willed, and weak minded, lacking integrity, doing evil things"?

---like the Nazis of the last century, who were tried at Nuremberg.

I think Charlie Rush falls totally into the brainwashed category also, but I have never known Charlie to deliberately hurt anyone. There is brainwashed, and then there is willing to do evil. --ie. hurt people, break up marriages, ....

Spot on, Carmello! :thumbsup:

Those who did not have their own unbreakable moral code outside of Scilo broke down and changed into the Scilo Nazi persona more easily than those who had a strong, ethical upbringing outside of it.

I thank my father for teaching me true exchange, true justice and fairness, the value of family and children, the value of education and true loyalty to friends. These values were deep and basic enough for me to fend off and fight many church abuses from within and treat my various posts in the SO with a view of genuinely helping others, regardless of demands to do otherwise for the sake of Scilo. Too bad I thought others that didn't do so only "misinterpreted" the tech, or I would have left so much sooner and not wasted so many years of my life there. This is my key disagreement with M Rathbun - until an ex-Scn can see that the abuses and paranoia have always been a part of the tech that L Ron devised, that this was no mistake, they can't be free of its brainwashing effects. It was the tech all along, it is the tech itself that puts one into a mind-trap chasing figments of the imagination and forces others to cut off and mistreat family and friends. Setting L Ron up as an idol and authority is a disaster to anyone's life and well-being.

So here's Greg, like so many others... striving to be the best he could be in Scilo, giving up his earlier morals (which apparently weren't that strong to begin with) and ultimately becoming a paranoid, vindictive, controlling, manipulative, self-absorbed freak who believes he is a mini-God, that lying, dishonesty and manipulation all serve a higher good, that hurting others is right for the sake of the Hubbard and Scientology idols that replaced his personal judgement and common sense and that he personally has the right to distribute these injustices for this twisted, higher good.
 
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