Is Mike Rinder a Trusted Source of Inside Information for Aussie Exes?

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
?... not entirely trustworthy just yet due to his tight relationship with Marty. But the potential is there.

Mike Rinder is a quiet person by nature. I knew him somewhat at PAC. There is also a loyalty between Australians that one has to live and experience to understand. Unless Mike does something to particularly hurt the Australian cause, you are unlikely to find an ex here attacking him. It's the "fair go" policy. The way I see it, they (we) are giving Mike some time and space to reveal what he can and must. They are giving him a fair go because he is an Aussie and he understands this as well. These are the sort of things that are done in Australia without having to be said out loud.

So there is a different standard for Australian nationals? Funny I always viewed the Ex community as quite international, the key common factor being mind fuck and abuse all experienced to some degree n the cult or SO. I figured ex-Scios had far more in common with each other, than just a random per on of the same nationality. The cult experience is unique and seems to create a bond among very disparate people here who otherwise might have nothing to do with one another.

I think it would be quite naive for anyone to apply a different standard to Rinder due to his nationality. If we are to compare Mike to RVY, who held a similar post and status to Rinder's, there is no comparison. RVY stepped into the light and did everything in his power to help stop the abuses and bring down the cult. Mike has done very little in the open save for attack DM (& only DM) and pal around with Marty. If he is actually trying to operate on back channels among critics, I would be very very leery. Until he is willing to do more than participate in an ongoing grudge match with DM I would question
his motives.

I think the open letter to his family that Mike posted on Martys blog demonstrated his ronboy mindset. Caliwog did an accurate analysis of the letter:
Mike never once declares his love for his son or anything remotely resembling paternal concern - it's all about LRH and who's the best Scientologist using the REAL on source tech. The only thing that may have changed is Mike no longer thinks DM is on-source, preserving LRH. This is important because protecting LRH is still Mike's top priority and he currently hasn't publicly disavowed the methods he used in OSA to protect Lron. Mike's only repeated complaint is DMs management.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Markus

Karen,

ESMB is no group like the CoS or the "Cult of true Hubbardian Scientologists".
Here are people with many different opinions - so if you say that "ESMB is hostile to Mike" is not quite right in my opinion.
I do not agree with what Mike is doing and I'm posting this opinion here - I'm doing this because from what I have observed Mike is still trapped by Hubbard and is not able to lead a free life. So you may say I'm hostile to Mike - in my world I try to help him to break free from Hubbards "Soul Hacking" because I have seen in my life how Hubbards brainwashing can harm people and destroy families and the life of countless innocent people.

Much love
Markus

Dear Markus,
You are a DEAR.
The death of your brother and the way he was RPF'd and thrown out into PAC from his post as Security Chief at INT BASE ~~ was a horrific deed. I have nothing but empathy for you.

I also have a journalist of an upcoming book for you to connect with. I would like Uwe's story memorialized in this book. Please PM me.

Just so my position is completely clear, I am, always will be a highly trained auditor and CS. I practiced the technology for YEARS and have first hand knowledge of the results.

I am not part of the group that feels in any way "trapped by Hubbard". I respect your viewpoints and ask that you respect mine. The Cult that it has morphed into is not the "CHURCH" I joined.

I recently experienced the death of my Golden Retriever I had had for 13 years and I was heartbroken. He was my son. He slept at my feet in my California King size bed. We ran in Griffith Park for years, ~~ he was my jogging companion.

golden-retriever2.jpg



I did what anyone of my background would do....I went and had a session to handle the loss and I experienced instant relief and peace.

You would likely never accept this offer, but I offer you, free of any charge or any strings, a session to handle UWE's passing if you are ever in Los Angeles. I guarantee I would be able to alleviate some of the pain.

love/Karen
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I see. Well I know he is from Australia and his family are all well known Scientologists there - is that right?

So is it safe to say that anyone who was a Scientologist in Australia kinda looks up to him as a "local boy done good" or something like that?

And so when you get out of the Church, and you find out that Rinder is out too, you kind of think: "he's just like me! I'll bet he knows the REAL scoop that exes should know about."


Or is that completely off?

I'm curious. Because the phenomenon of Mike Rinder - and he is a phenomenon in my opinion - has tentacles and roots, ramifications and consequences. I think that he has "comm lines" into the Ex community there and is working those comm lines.

That's the reason for my exploration here into the Mind of the Australian Exes with regard to Mike Rinder.

Alanzo, what a really silly thing to say. Yeah I know it was to get a reaction but it's also an insult to Aussies as one thing that we are not into is hero worship.

What do you think would be the purpose of "working those comm lines"? This goes back to the "Marty taking over the world" theory? You think Aussies are stupid? The fair go policy is a good one.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
So there is a different standard for Australian nationals?

Make no mistake, Australia has its own CULTURE. It is not an extension of America or the UK. I made no remarks at all about ESMB or the ex community overall - don't twist my words.

The last Premier of NSW, an American named Kristina Keneally, chose not to understand that Australia is not an extension of America and was voted out of office by a landslide.

If you choose not to understand the "fair go" policy of Australia, that's your choice. Nobody said Aussies don't apply it to others.

Australians value a 'fair go' highest
Deborah Gough
November 12, 2006

THE right to a "fair go" is the thing almost all Australians put at the top of their list when it comes to values


http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...fair-go-highest/2006/11/11/1162661949374.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AlphOhm

Traveler of time/space
Dear Markus,
You are a DEAR.
The death of your brother and the way he was RPF'd and thrown out into PAC from his post as Security Chief at INT BASE ~~ was a horrific deed. I have nothing but empathy for you.

I also have a journalist of an upcoming book for you to connect with. I would like Uwe's story memorialized in this book. Please PM me.

Just so my position is completely clear, I am, always will be a highly trained auditor and CS. I practiced the technology for YEARS and have first hand knowledge of the results.

I am not part of the group that feels in any way "trapped by Hubbard". I respect your viewpoints and ask that you respect mine. The Cult that it has morphed into is not the "CHURCH" I joined.

I recently experienced the death of my Golden Retriever I had had for 13 years and I was heartbroken. He was my son. He slept at my feet in my California King size bed. We ran in Griffith Park for years, ~~ he was my jogging companion.

golden-retriever2.jpg



I did what anyone of my background would do....I went and had a session to handle the loss and I experienced instant relief and peace.

You would likely never accept this offer, but I offer you, free of any charge or any strings, a session to handle UWE's passing if you are ever in Los Angeles. I guarantee I would be able to alleviate some of the pain.

love/Karen

I am sorry for the loss of your friend. 13 years is a long life for a puppeh. I am sure that he was well cared for and very loved. Lucky dog.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
FTS, I seem to recall that I once said something along the lines of "ANZO scientologists look up to Rinder".

I was, of course referring to the CofS scientologists (not the Exes) and I have shocked quite a few diehard scientologists in the last 3 years by telling them Mike had left the CofS... they didn't know he'd left and several wouldn't believe it. It actually got a few people looking.

I REALLY appreciate Al's new Crusade To Help The Aussie Exes, especially those of us who so obviously need the kind of help he's offering.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
FTS, I seem to recall that I once said something along the lines of "ANZO scientologists look up to Rinder".

I was, of course referring to the CofS scientologists (not the Exes) and I have shocked quite a few diehard scientologists in the last 3 years by telling them Mike had left the CofS... they didn't know he'd left and several wouldn't believe it. It actually got a few people looking.

I REALLY appreciate Al's new Crusade To Help The Aussie Exes, especially those of us who so obviously need the kind of help he's offering.

I can't tell if your tounge is firmly in your cheek or not.

I guess I was never really into 'status'. :D
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
The first 2 paragraphs are tongue-less. Rinder (when he was a high-ranking member of the CofS) had considerable credibility amongst the ANZO scientology community, I point to that in my efforts to get people looking.

I ask people to look at the fact that so many former high-ranking scios have left the CofS. It's amazing what they come up with as reasons.

I once asked a 30+ year veteran (who didn't know Mike had left) what she thought of Mike. She was gushing in her praise of him as an example of what could be achieved by a single scientologist. I then told her he'd left the CofS. She didn't believe me so I told her to check it out. After a couple of weeks I checked back with her. She'd completely reversed her position on Mike-the-good-guy. He was now scum.

Two years later she's had time to process the data... she's out. :)
 
Make no mistake, Australia has its own CULTURE. It is not an extension of America or the UK. I made no remarks at all about ESMB or the ex community overall - don't twist my words.

The last Premier of NSW, an American named Kristina Keneally, chose not to understand that Australia is not an extension of America and was voted out of office by a landslide.

If you choose not to understand the "fair go" policy of Australia, that's your choice. Nobody said Aussies don't apply it to others.

Australians value a 'fair go' highest
Deborah Gough
November 12, 2006

THE right to a "fair go" is the thing almost all Australians put at the top of their list when it comes to values


http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...fair-go-highest/2006/11/11/1162661949374.html

There may be a "fair go policy" (Give a bloke a fair go). Isn't it more about a bloke who is himself fair, or whose mistakes or faults should not be used to keep him down if he is trying to be fair and get on in life like everyone else. I don't think ozzies will use the fair go policy to give a free ride to someone who is seen to be a ratbag. Individuals would decide who is a ratbag and who isn't. Carly Crutchfield is a good example of an ozzie blokess and a sci-cultist to boot, who some people are very unwilling to give a fair go to.
 

jenni with an eye

Silver Meritorious Patron
There may be a "fair go policy" (Give a bloke a fair go). Isn't it more about a bloke who is himself fair, or whose mistakes or faults should not be used to keep him down if he is trying to be fair and get on in life like everyone else. I don't think ozzies will use the fair go policy to give a free ride to someone who is seen to be a ratbag. Individuals would decide who is a ratbag and who isn't. Carly Crutchfield is a good example of an ozzie blokess. and a sci-cultist to boot, who some people are very unwilling to give a fair go to.

:yes:

I'll give anyone a fair go but if they continually do the wrong thing well :whistling:

By their current actions know them. :thumbsup:
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Regardless of any philosophical differences I have/may have with Mike Rinder, I have no problems with what he is doing right now.

If he's being circumspect in "coming clean," so be it - I wouldn't be "out there" telling all if I were in his shoes. It's just not safe to do so.

If he's still a Hubbardite, so what? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

To compare Mike with Jesse or RVY or anyone else is mere speculation on the vagaries of human behaviour. Mike is Mike, he's doing what he's doing and he's fighting the Co$ in his own way and I personally believe he's very effective in helping end the abuses rampant in the cult.

Would I trust everything he says? No.

Do I trust what everyone says on this board? No.

He's a guy with no resources struggling to find his feet in a very unfamiliar envioroment. He's one of the prime targets of a demented madman who'll throw any amount of money at stopping people who He thinks may be harmful to Him. Mike has a lot of inside info on DM - I'm just glad I'm not in his shoes right now.

DM has a multi-billion corporation with huge real estate assets, thousands of slaves willing to work for Him 100 hours plus per week, a web of net sites, a internal intellligence service that would make the Stasi green with envy, etc etc ad nauseum.

Mike and Marty have a shack, a rowboat, a blog or two and a dog. They have their own crusade that they're following.

I don't have the time to bother with what the M & M Show are doing other than to see who's popped up over at the Shack now and then and to read some of the stories that appear over there. I don't care if they're still Hubbardites. They don't have an RPF, hordes of reges and ethics officers working over "their public," PIs and high-flying lawyers at their call nor any of the other accessories DM has. And they've publicly stated they don't want any of that.

I still have friends in the cult and, if those friends chose M and M over the Co$, I would be very happy for them.

At least they won't be being abused like they are now.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
So there is a different standard for Australian nationals? Funny I always viewed the Ex community as quite international, the key common factor being mind fuck and abuse all experienced to some degree n the cult or SO. I figured ex-Scios had far more in common with each other, than just a random per on of the same nationality. The cult experience is unique and seems to create a bond among very disparate people here who otherwise might have nothing to do with one another.

I think it would be quite naive for anyone to apply a different standard to Rinder due to his nationality. If we are to compare Mike to RVY, who held a similar post and status to Rinder's, there is no comparison. RVY stepped into the light and did everything in his power to help stop the abuses and bring down the cult. Mike has done very little in the open save for attack DM (& only DM) and pal around with Marty. If he is actually trying to operate on back channels among critics, I would be very very leery. Until he is willing to do more than participate in an ongoing grudge match with DM I would question
his motives.

I think the open letter to his family that Mike posted on Martys blog demonstrated his ronboy mindset. Caliwog did an accurate analysis of the letter:
Mike never once declares his love for his son or anything remotely resembling paternal concern - it's all about LRH and who's the best Scientologist using the REAL on source tech. The only thing that may have changed is Mike no longer thinks DM is on-source, preserving LRH. This is important because protecting LRH is still Mike's top priority and he currently hasn't publicly disavowed the methods he used in OSA to protect Lron. Mike's only repeated complaint is DMs management.

RVY, Jesse etc. are folks who took on the cult directly. They had little impact on getting through to those "inside" but they sure as hell woke up a lot of people outside the cult to what was going on.

Mike and Marty are specifically targeting those still "in" and, from what I've seen and heard, are very effective at what they're doing. More than anyone else, they threaten DM's cash inflow in a very direct way. And THAT is more important to DM than anything else IMO.

More than anyone else, they provide a safe landing spot for those who've given their life and more to this slimy cult.

Anons have cut the flow of "raw meat" to the machine enormously. But there's still those in the machine to be rescued.

If those souls find comfort in exorcising dead aliens as per the rantings of a former occultist, more power to them. That's their path and they should be allowed to follow it.

I see these constant snipings at M & M as little but manifestations of an intolerance towards fellow humans and their differing beliefs and practices. I don't care what someone believes in or practices in their own time. I do care if they are held at virtual gunpoint and have their "eternity" threatened so that a madman can play with highly expensive toys and beat people up when He feels like it.

If DM were an Aussie, I'd cut him no slack at all because of His nationality. Aussies love nothing better than cutting down anyone who gets "too big for their boots," especially if they too are Aussie. Try researching "Tall Poppy Syndrome."

"Fair Go" for an Aussie includes everybody, not just our fellow countrymen. It might be why we've had such success in this country cleaning up the cult.

We tend to get on with doing something about it, rather than endlessly vent our disagreements with someone else's thoughts and beliefs.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I appreciate the responses in this thread so far and I am still assimilating some of the thoughtful and heartfelt data that has been presented here.

One of the most important "datums" I've seen here is the Aussie cultural value of "fair go". I think its great, and I understand how many Aussie exes here would have it as a factor in dealing with Mike Rinder in his situation.

It's very civilized and very commendable.

I do have to ask, before I go through and think about these responses more, though:

Does Mike Rinder apply the "fair go" Aussie cultural value himself?

When he never publically states the capabilities and resources of OSA to destroy critics - so to give all critics a fair go against OSA - is he really someone who gives a fair go to us critics like you give to him?

How many exes and critics of Scientology did Mike Rinder ever give a "fair go" to as the head of OSA for 25 years?

Again, I've got some thinking to do. I am going to read and re-read some of the thoughtful posts in this thread and I will be thinking up more responses to the questions you have raised.

But please please think about my question to you:

Mike Rinder, when he whispers to critics about other critics behind everyone's back - and never stating anything publically that would help us all - about a certain critic "being OSA", is he really giving that critic a fair go?

Or any critics?


Please think about that while I think about your posts.

I appreciate everyone's response here and I will be coming back to you tomorrow on them.

Until then:

There's coffee and donuts in the back, and we're bringing a light jazz band in later.

Discuss among yourselves....
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
All right.

But what if I told you that I have heard that Mike Rinder HAS talked about certain critics with Aussie Exes, and even told them things like "this and that guy work for OSA"?

Given the fact that Mike has been so utterly silent about the capabilities and resources that OSA uses against critics, and given the fact that his job was to destroy critics of Scientology for so many years, don't you find it astounding for him to say things like this privately and not publicy?

I mean think of the information that he has that would be useful for critics to avoid fair game, the destruction of their families, etc. and other types of things OSA can do to critics.

To find that he has not been speaking out about that publicly - and NOT letting everyone who is susceptible to their fair game be warned and appraised of OSA's capabilities - but instead Mike is quietly saying things behind the scenes about 1 or 2 people only, and only saying these things privately - with agreements to keep this info "confidential" as well.

Isn't that strange?

Shouldn't an activity like that going on behind the scenes from Mike Rinder be something that should be discussed out on the open so everyone can benefit from Mike Rinder's inside knowledge of OSA's resources and capabilities?

To protect critics?

What do you think about that idea?

Well, first of all, I love you for saying "all right" instead of "alright". That's a good start!

I'm not so sure about "I have heard that Mike HAS talked ...". I have heard lots of things too, some of which is bullshit. I know that plenty of things can get twisted in transmission. (Ref. Panda's comment a few posts ago where he clarified what he said about Mike when he was in Scn.) I am not a supporter of Mike, but neither am I a critic particularly; he just exists out there in wherever land doing whatever he's doing, for whatever his reasons are. Sometimes I read or hear about it, sometimes not.

And no, I don't find it particularly astounding that he hasn't made certain information public. I have no idea why. The laws of libel/slander may have something to do with it. But what I do know is that anything he does say now is slightly tarnished by his seemingly absolute sincerity when he was saying things for and on behalf of the cult. IMHO, of course. I think it's inevitable this should be so, and it might be some time before the effect wears off, at least for me.

Seems to me that you're basing a bunch of assumptions on stuff you've only heard.

My only views now are that it took some guts for him to leave when he did and to go as public as he has, knowing what he would have to be dealing with, not just in terms of the cult but also any number of exes. He is an intelligent guy and I'm sure he understands the implications.

But like you I find the whole thing interesting and will be watching to see how things unfold.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Make no mistake, Australia has its own CULTURE. It is not an extension of America or the UK. I made no remarks at all about ESMB or the ex community overall - don't twist my words.

The last Premier of NSW, an American named Kristina Keneally, chose not to understand that Australia is not an extension of America and was voted out of office by a landslide.

If you choose not to understand the "fair go" policy of Australia, that's your choice. Nobody said Aussies don't apply it to others.[/url]

Don't twist or put words in my mouth, nothing I said even remotely implied Australians don't have their own culture or that I believe Aussie = American. What I found strange was you implying Mike deserved a "fair go" simply because he was an Aussie and only Aussies can understand that concept or it can only be granted to other Australians. (I.e. If the former head of OSA and chief spoke hole for the CoS was an American or European he would get the third degree or held in suspicion for his deceptive & evil past along with his complete lack of transparency in present time but because he happens to be born in Oz he is granted the "fair go" policy towards his behavior. )

Im sure Aussie's all over than land appreciate you, an American transplant, interpreting their culture to us hapless Americans who ALL assume Australia must be the same as the USA and they have no culture of their own.

I'm close friends with a couple born and bred in Australia and my cousin married an Australian. Though I'm just an ignorant American I have managed to comprehend another cherished Aussie concept and term from my interactions with their alien culture, and I think it seems to fit Rinder very well - RATBAG.

Rinder is doing what he has always done, run ops and PR campaigns to further an agenda. Unfortunately none of us know his true agenda, but I don't think anyone will disagree with the fact that its main component involves protecting and furthering LRH's goals and his concept of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics and attacking DM and his management of Mike's precious.
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
All right.

But what if I told you that I have heard that Mike Rinder HAS talked about certain critics with Aussie Exes, and even told them things like "this and that guy work for OSA"?

Given the fact that Mike has been so utterly silent about the capabilities and resources that OSA uses against critics, and given the fact that his job was to destroy critics of Scientology for so many years, don't you find it astounding for him to say things like this privately and not publicy?

I mean think of the information that he has that would be useful for critics to avoid fair game, the destruction of their families, etc. and other types of things OSA can do to critics.

To find that he has not been speaking out about that publicly - and NOT letting everyone who is susceptible to their fair game be warned and appraised of OSA's capabilities - but instead Mike is quietly saying things behind the scenes about 1 or 2 people only, and only saying these things privately - with agreements to keep this info "confidential" as well.

Isn't that strange?

Shouldn't an activity like that going on behind the scenes from Mike Rinder be something that should be discussed out on the open so everyone can benefit from Mike Rinder's inside knowledge of OSA's resources and capabilities?

To protect critics?

What do you think about that idea?

This post struck a cord, he could post such information anonymously just as a public service.
That would be a great help.
James
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Don't twist or put words in my mouth, nothing I said even remotely implied Australians don't have their own culture or that I believe Aussie = American. What I found strange was you implying Mike deserved a "fair go" simply because he was an Aussie..

I didn't. You misunderstood me. I am sorry I didn't communicate more clearly, but you are the only one who interpreted it that way so perhaps the misunderstanding is partly your responsibility as well.

If you understood "Fair Go" and what it means so well, you wouldn't have written the last two messages showing such a clear misunderstanding.

I am an Aussie. I am also an American. Deal with it - or not. The other Americans did not have a problem understanding what I meant.
 
Top