Is Mike Rinder a Trusted Source of Inside Information for Aussie Exes?

[scooter]

I think I follow what's going on - but I don't dare say anything for fear of starting it over again

(Just kidding, Al - apology accepted)

For the record, I've never spoken to Mike Rinder but I've been told he's helped on a few projects that have been started here in Oz. That's all the info I have apart from what else I've put here.

I agree with Pook's curt summary on these matters - she puts it succinctly where I tend to waffle a bit rather than cut to the chase and maybe hurt feelings.

Can we talk about something else nao?

 

[Good twin]

I know you like to defend Al, GT, but really... did you see something that different?

It probably was new news to some that Rinder is willing and able to communicate with Exes and Critics if he so chooses. The idea that there is something untoward about it is probably just something Al developed from "information" he was given by another/others.

Do you think he would have taken that tack if he'd ever chatted to Rinder himself?

Yes and probably.
I saw things differently not to defend Al. That would be impossible.

 

[Panda Termint]

Thanks!

 

[Gottabrain]

One thing that does lend some credence to Mike and Marty not being all knowing overlords of every dirty trick the cult has pulled in the past 20 years -- Mike was a SP to DM for years, Marty blew twice before his final blow, and they were both jailed int he SP hall at INT.

Fact is DM had not really fully trusted Marty since his blow after the IRS decision in the early 90\'s. Not saying Marty didn\'t do plenty of dirty stuff after that, but I think DM was leery of him and never fully trusted him. Mike was a constant punching bag for DM and viewed as a degraded being and SP for years - we all know the stories of Mike cleaning toilets and then suddenly being told to throw on a suit and make a presentation at some big event to keep up appearances.

So I think we sometimes give to much credence to what M&M really know about the cult and its deeds, esp when it comes to the past decade. Unfortunately it behooves M&M to trump up their importance in the media and to their followers so they are only fueling the fire in that regard.

Fact is, and this comes from someone I speak with that has first hand knowledge, M&M in the last 10 years were not the trusted, powerful figures they had been. IF you want someone that knows where the bodies are buried you would look to someone like Greg Wilhere. M&M were has beens, no longer enjoying any favored status with DM by the 00\'s, probably another big reason they left. I don\'t think their leaving really has much to do with saving \"the tech\" but more to do with bruised egos and going from positions of power to punching bags. It\'s one thing to hang around when you have power and are feared/respected, quite another to stick around when you\'re treated like dirt.

Obviously M&M have dirty hands and know plenty they aren\'t sharing, and hell Mike could even be trying to stir up dissent among critics (its in his blood after all) but I do think their \"insider knowledge\" is given too much credit by many. I think their glory days of dirty deeds and power within the cult pretty much ended by the year 2000 - after that it was a big shit sandwich for both of them. So while they could probably enlighten us a lot on stuff that happened in the 80\'s or 90\'s - they are probably pretty ignorant of stuff after that unless they stumbled upon info by accident. (After all we all know CoS has a hard on for \"need to know\" basis stuff.)

We give M&M too much credit for being all knowing beings when it comes to the cult\'s dirty business. We are dealing with some has-beens who wore out their usefulness for CoS years ago. However, the fact that most of their interesting knowledge would be previous to 1998 means they have even less of an excuse for keeping quiet since the statue of limitations on most stuff from their era is past. But it\'s probably one of the few things they got to use in their little war with DM, so we won\'t be hearing about any of it soon unless it benefits their agenda.

Also, if anyone (Aussie, European, American) is actually listening to the former head of OSA for advice or guidance on who to trust among critics - you are out of your ever loving minds.

Great post. Spot-on summary and evaluation & as an Aussie and an American, I completely agree, so this post gets two votes.

POOKS (or anyone else who might be able to answer this) - I was never officially USGO or any GO staff (was AOLA crew due to a weird org boarding back then) so I never understood why nearly all the former GO staff completely disappeared off the face of the earth when they left.

I would recognize the pre80s names that were in the F/L files and a number of other names, but they are just GONE. Others became normal org staff, then left completely.

What happens to the GO staff when they leave? So few of them ever even got involved as public afterwards and even then, it was usually short-lived. Was there a lot of fear and intimidation? Was it guilt? Do you have any insight into this? It always puzzled me.

Sheila

 

[Good twin]

Great post. Spot-on summary and evaluation & as an Aussie and an American, I completely agree, so this post gets two votes.

POOKS (or anyone else who might be able to answer this) - I was never officially USGO or any GO staff (was AOLA crew due to a weird org boarding back then) so I never understood why nearly all the former GO staff completely disappeared off the face of the earth when they left.

I would recognize the pre80s names that were in the F/L files and a number of other names, but they are just GONE. Others became normal org staff, then left completely.

What happens to the GO staff when they leave? So few of them ever even got involved as public afterwards and even then, it was usually short-lived. Was there a lot of fear and intimidation? Was it guilt? Do you have any insight into this? It always puzzled me.

Sheila

Bob Ramer is still around. He's not so active, but still friendly with the Scientology community. He has money on account at Flag, but last I heard he's not inclined to do service.

 

[Free to shine]

POOKS (or anyone else who might be able to answer this) - I was never officially USGO or any GO staff (was AOLA crew due to a weird org boarding back then) so I never understood why nearly all the former GO staff completely disappeared off the face of the earth when they left.

I would recognize the pre80s names that were in the F/L files and a number of other names, but they are just GONE. Others became normal org staff, then left completely.

What happens to the GO staff when they leave? So few of them ever even got involved as public afterwards and even then, it was usually short-lived. Was there a lot of fear and intimidation? Was it guilt? Do you have any insight into this? It always puzzled me.

Sheila

I was GO staff and left in 82. Became a very quiet public and when my name rolled around to be regged again I was told I would have to have a special "GO Rundown" because we were all such naughty people and had terrible overts. I didn't do it and a few years later this didn't seem to be an issue. I think it was something done to be seen to have taken action on this 'rogue' part of scientology. As if. And yes it was intimidating.
Other staff from Melbourne GO 'graduated' to Int or Flag apparently....Elaine Allen, Bob and Joy Allsop, Alan Cartwright, Zoltan Bozan. Not sure about any others.

 

[Infinite]

Great post. Spot-on summary and evaluation & as an Aussie and an American, I completely agree, so this post gets two votes.

POOKS (or anyone else who might be able to answer this) - I was never officially USGO or any GO staff (was AOLA crew due to a weird org boarding back then) so I never understood why nearly all the former GO staff completely disappeared off the face of the earth when they left.

I would recognize the pre80s names that were in the F/L files and a number of other names, but they are just GONE. Others became normal org staff, then left completely.

What happens to the GO staff when they leave? So few of them ever even got involved as public afterwards and even then, it was usually short-lived. Was there a lot of fear and intimidation? Was it guilt? Do you have any insight into this? It always puzzled me.

Sheila

Jesse Prince was among the most active people in getting others out from the Scientology trap. In the prelude to his next blog entry, he says:

Most of the people I helped get out of the hole took off running once they could see the light of day again. As a result for far too long, far too few were involved in the rescue effort at all. I found myself extending my hand back into that hole to grab anyone out that I could. The more people I pulled out, the less help I had. People just got up and ran the hell away!

I take it from this comment that once a person is freed of Scientology, many simply take to their heels. Can't say as I blame them - after all, the last thing a person escaping from Scientology needs is more Scientology.

 

[Gottabrain]

Bob Ramer is still around. He's not so active, but still friendly with the Scientology community. He has money on account at Flag, but last I heard he's not inclined to do service.

Thanks, GT. And Rudi Loehwing is public now (though he never brings up his years in the GO) and Jeff Porter is still a COS SO (OSA now?) scumbag. Jesse Prince brought up Spike Bush - a scumbag, still in SO - I'm fairly certain Spike Bush has been in & out of OSA. Suits his weasel of a personality - he's a disgusting piece of crap.

But this is a very tiny percent of those who worked for the GO. Whereas ex service org staff and ex public numbers are pretty high in the ex community, the GO numbers are miniscule, both in and out of COS.

 

[TG1]

Wasn't Artie Maren GO?

 

[Gottabrain]

Jesse Prince was among the most active people in getting others out from the Scientology trap. In the prelude to his next blog entry, he says:


I take it from this comment that once a person is freed of Scientology, many simply take to their heels. Can't say as I blame them - after all, the last thing a person escaping from Scientology needs is more Scientology.

Jesse is a good friend of mine and completely trustworthy - I've known him since 1977. He is a special man, for sure, never did the sort of things Mike Rinder did - he was RTC, not OSA, remember. His courage and integrity are exceptional. His sense of humor puts him on par with HH, too.

Same with Pooks. Her courage is an icon.

 

[Good twin]

Thanks, GT. And Rudi Loehwing is public now (though he never brings up his years in the GO) and Jeff Porter is still a COS SO (OSA now?) scumbag. Jesse Prince brought up Spike Bush - equally scumbag, still in SO - I'm fairly certain he's been in & out of SO. Suits his weasel of a personality.

But this is a very tiny percent of those who worked for the GO. Whereas ex service org staff and ex public numbers are pretty high in the ex community, the GO numbers are miniscule, both in and out of COS.

Larry Slatkoff is still in the SO at FSO. I can't remember many others. You are right it seems that many disappeared. It's not just the GO though. I remember when the Miami Org was bigger than old saint hill back when Dave Troph was the ED. Many of the guys from those days have escaped into real life and left barely a trail. Some sort of pretend to be believers just to avoid the harassment of admitting they are out. Others just became invisible.

 

[Gottabrain]

Wasn't Artie Maren GO?

YES. Big time! He was involved in the infamous Snow White. What's he up to these days?

 

[Gottabrain]

Larry Slatkoff is still in the SO at FSO. I can't remember many others. You are right it seems that many disappeared. It's not just the GO though. I remember when the Miami Org was bigger than old saint hill back when Dave Troph was the ED. Many of the guys from those days have escaped into real life and left barely a trail. Some sort of pretend to be believers just to avoid the harassment of admitting they are out. Others just became invisible.

Miami org too, then. But many of the old ASHO, AOLA, DC and FSO and other org staff and public have made it to the Boards. Was there something particularly shameful or upsetting that happened at Miami?

Then there are the celebrities who came, found it bad and left. About 50 for every 1 that is in COS now, but who can even remember their names? There should be an entirely new thread for that.

The 5 year contracted GO staff had all been Scientologists before they were recruited to the GO. Hundreds of them disappeared completely from Scn. I've only run into a few names on the ex Boards since.

 

[Infinite]

Jesse is a good friend of mine and completely trustworthy - I've known him since 1977. He is a special man, for sure, never did the sort of things Mike Rinder did - he was RTC, not OSA, remember. His courage and integrity are exceptional. His sense of humor puts him on par with HH, too.

Same with Pooks. Her courage is an icon.

Ahhh . . . an important distinction and one I need to keep in mind. Thanks. And, yeah - Pooks rocks; she pisses off at least as many people a week as I do ; )

 

[Good twin]

Miami org too, then. But many of the old ASHO, AOLA, DC and FSO and other org staff and public have made it to the Boards. Was there something particularly shameful or upsetting that happened at Miami?

Then there are the celebrities who came, found it bad and left. About 50 for every 1 that is in COS now, but who can even remember their names? There should be an entirely new thread for that.

The 5 year contracted GO staff had all been Scientologists before they were recruited to the GO. Hundreds of them disappeared completely from Scn. I've only run into a few names on the ex Boards since.

I've found quite few but they are in various levels of invisible for a variety of reasons. For every ex who's posting there's a bunch that are just still quiet. Some of them have great stories, but aren't inclined to go public.

That's why I went on my world tour and road trip my first year out. I went looking for exes and why they were out and how they were doing. If the only exes you know are the ones on the internet, you're missing a whole sub sub culture. LOL

 

[Gottabrain]

I was GO staff and left in 82. Became a very quiet public and when my name rolled around to be regged again I was told I would have to have a special "GO Rundown" because we were all such naughty people and had terrible overts. I didn't do it and a few years later this didn't seem to be an issue. I think it was something done to be seen to have taken action on this 'rogue' part of scientology. As if. And yes it was intimidating.
Other staff from Melbourne GO 'graduated' to Int or Flag apparently....Elaine Allen, Bob and Joy Allsop, Alan Cartwright, Zoltan Bozan. Not sure about any others.

FTS, thanks for this - it gives some insight. Would love to hear some of your inside stories some time, if you feel brave.

Maybe we should compose names of exGO/exOSA who are still in COS on a different thread? What do you think?

 

[Gottabrain]

I've found quite few but they are in various levels of invisible for a variety of reasons. For every ex who's posting there's a bunch that are just still quiet. Some of them have great stories, but aren't inclined to go public.

That's why I went on my world tour and road trip my first year out. I went looking for exes and why they were out and how they were doing. If the only exes you know are the ones on the internet, you're missing a whole sub sub culture. LOL

That's great to hear, GT.

Methinks I should take a similar road trip!

 

[Good twin]

That's great to hear, GT.

Methinks I should take a similar road trip!

It was really wonderful. The parts I was free to disclose are right here on ESMB somewhere. But of course some of the stuff that can't be shared was even better. I mean on a personal level not on a valuable to critics level.

 

[Panda Termint]

FTS, thanks for this - it gives some insight. Would love to hear some of your inside stories some time, if you feel brave.

Maybe we should compose names of exGO/exOSA who are still in COS on a different thread? What do you think?

She could tell some good stories!

I know what happened to most of the people who were in the ANZO Continental GO and a few of the Regional areas. We've even had a few posts on ESMB from some of them.

It needs its own thread but understand that several I have talked to since I left the CofS wouldn't be too happy about being named here.

 

[Gottabrain]

She could tell some good stories!

I know what happened to most of the people who were in the ANZO Continental GO and a few of the Regional areas. We've even had a few posts on ESMB from a few of them.

It needs its own thread but understand that several I have talked to since I left the CofS wouldn't be too happy about being named here.

I'll bet she could!!

We should only name the hardcore, active dedicated COS ones, I think. For a few reasons - one, so we are aware of them and their sneaky dirty trick training and status with COS when they post or contact those of us out, and two, to discourage DM and OSA from using them for ops now and in the future because they are KNOWN.

I'll start the thread, see how it goes.