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Is Scientology a science?

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I can't be any more specific at this point, (I'm going to see if I can find the relevant HCOB/Policy letter) but, (without wishing to take sides in this particular dispute) Hubbard definitely said something about not getting involved in disputes with people about their religion. What his motives for saying this were is another matter altogether.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Well, this isn't what I was referring to but it may provide food for thought.

HCO BULLETIN OF 18 APRIL 1967
Remimeo
Staff
Students
RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY AND RELIGIOUS PRACTICE

(HCOB of 21 June 1960, “Religious Philosophy and Religious Practice” Revised)

Scientology is a religion by its basic tenets, practice, historical background and by the definition of the word “religion” itself. The following will help clarify the philosophical and practical aspects of religion.

Religious practice implies ritual, faith-in, doctrine based on a catechism and a creed.

Religious philosophy implies study of spiritual manifestations; research on the nature of the spirit and study on the relationship of the spirit to the body; exercises devoted to the rehabilitation of abilities in a spirit.

Scientology is a Religious philosophy in its highest meaning as it brings man to Total Freedom and Truth. Our Confessional relieves the being of the encumbrances which keep his awareness as a being limited to the physical aspects of life.

Scientology is also a Religious practice in that the Church of Scientology conducts basic services such as Sermons at Church meetings, Christenings, Weddings and Funerals.

Scientology does not conflict with other Religions or Religious Practices as it clarifies them and brings understanding of the spiritual nature of man.

Scientology has amongst its members people of all the major faiths, including many priests, bishops and other ordained communicants of the major faiths.

Scientology’s closest spiritual ties with any other religion are with Orthodox (Hinayana) Buddhism with which it shares an historical lineage. But even here the relationship is based mainly on friendship and the recognition of the Being as a Spirit rather than on any organizational ties.

L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
LRH:jt jp.cden
Copyright © 1967
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
 
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Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Stirling engine that runs on wet paper as a cold reservoir is obeying the Second Law, which does apply to it. It's just more complicated, because in addition to air temperature, you have humidity as a factor in the system. Entropy also depends on humidity, and not only on temperature — and in fact you can determine how the entropy depends on humidity, by producing the under-saturated warm air by heating saturated cool air, and keeping the running total of heat input over temperature as the temperature rises. Anyway, evaporating your liquid water is increasing entropy, and that's why this engine works — not because it gets to disobey the Second Law by virtue of being an open system.

It's the 'few drops' of liquid water that are the bottleneck in this system. In this dry air, liquid water is not naturally occurring. Puddles will evaporate away; if not, then the Stirling engine won't work, because there won't be any evaporative cooling. So to make the engine keep on running indefinitely, you need to keep on bringing in liquid water, somehow — for example, from a cooler place, where the humidity of the air around your engine is saturation humidity. That would be your cold reservoir.

Or alternatively you could bring in your water from a place where the air temperature was the same as it is around your engine, but where the humidity was a lot higher. Then it would be true that you had an engine that didn't use a temperature gradient. It would be using a humidity gradient instead. From an entropy point of view, this is just the same. It would work, but it wouldn't be novel, or very efficient. Its power output would not be determined by the large amount of ambient heat in the air, but by the humidity gradient.

The great point of heat engines is that we can create really huge temperature gradients, by heating things up by burning fuel. So we can get huge power out of temperature gradients, because we can make steep temperature gradients. It's much harder to make a really step humidity gradient, so there's just not enough power in pure humidity gradients to be worth bothering with. If you look at all the heat in the air, you think you're tapping this huge energy source, but if you understand the Second Law, you realize that your very limited humidity gradient is only going to let you extract a tiny scrap of that thermal energy. Cancel the IPO. Bummer. That's why you need to consider the Second Law, and not just the first.

It's easy to overlook this seemingly tiny issue of supplying a bit of liquid water, because of course it's easy to turn on a tap and get a few drops of water, in a world powered by city-scale generators. But I have a Stirling engine just like that guy's from the video. It's an unbelievably wimpy engine. It can barely turn its little cardboard wheel. Its power output is extremely tiny. To get any actually useful amount of power out of a thing like that, I'd have to scale it up enormously. At that point I'd notice that I was needing to pipe in water from a cold and/or wet place — or refrigerate the water, or pressurize the air, or something.

Invoking 'open system' does not evade the Second Law. It just makes it easier to kid yourself, by making it a bit harder to see where all the entropy is.
 
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Purple Rain

Crusader
It's a rumor as far as I'm concerned until someone shows me in black and white published in an HCO Bulletin or policy letter or some such thing an explicit statement that Scientology staff aren't allowed to think or meditate or practice whatever other religion or spiritual discipline they might choose to practice. Then they will have to explain how this doesn't contradict the creed of a Scientologist and practically everything else Hubbard ever wrote or published regarding people's right to defend their own freedom stand up for their own values, think for themselves, be self determined, be in control of their own minds, be able to stop - change - and start their own thoughts, imagine red triangles of blue circles or "hold the corners of the room" with their minds etc. etc. etc.

They will have to spell out explicitly what practices are allowed and what practices are not allowed and have all these named practices clearly defined and the reasons why they are not allowed and some kind of hard research results provided showing when it was proven that any such practice is actually harmful or detrimental in any way.

As far as I'm concerned it's a malicious suppressive rumor apparently started years ago by who knows who which sounded reasonable enough that people believed it and tried to enforce it, after all, the auditors code does say not to mix practices, but as far as I can determine the rumor is actually without any foundation.

It may very well be that there are x-scientologists here who have had ethics actions and so forth taken out on them for practicing meditation or some such thing but apparently that was action that should not have been taken and was based upon a misinterpretation of the auditors code.

You are still acting as though Hubbard was a truthful, honest man. He wasn't. That was not his character. He frequently wrote - not only contradictory policies - which as Arnie Lerma has pointed out on many occassions are consistent with the confusion technique, but as others who were up close and personal have pointed out - THERE IS AND ALWAYS WAS A HIDDEN DATA LINE - in direct contradiction of what Hubbard stated. You can't look at the first one or two layers of the Scientological onion and stand on the information there - when the real operating basis is the innermost part of the onion. People are hassled to give up their former religious beliefs and practices because the existence of these do not serve a cult agenda. This was the sole reason for the creation of the "Church of American Science" by the way - to lure people in based on quasi-Christianity then "transition" them over to the proper and truly acceptable Scientological belief system.

This is why Michael Pattinson was declared after OT VIII - nobody could believe he went that high up in Scientology and still wanted to be a Catholic.

See: http://www.lermanet.com/michaelpattinson/

One thing that can be proven is that Hubbard was an inveterate liar and conman. You'd do best to remember that. Forget that at your peril.

http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.liar.html

If only Hubbard ALWAYS lied it would be easy. The only safe course is to assume he is being deceitful, however, and trying to get one over on you. If you truly believe the solution is to ask for the reference, then he already has.
 
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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Tom, one thing you will never be able to say is that you were not warned.


We, all of us, are defined to a large degree by the choices we make, and Purple Rain and others

are trying their best to have you see the danger you are in.


But, in order to see the danger, you need to be able to look

through your own eyes, which, unfortunately you are not.


If you stay on the Internet, and really look and listen to what others have experienced,

you have a chance.


Best of luck to you.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
It's a rumor as far as I'm concerned until someone shows me in black and white published in an HCO Bulletin or policy letter or some such thing an explicit statement that Scientology staff aren't allowed to think or meditate or practice whatever other religion or spiritual discipline they might choose to practice. Then they will have to explain how this doesn't contradict the creed of a Scientologist and practically everything else Hubbard ever wrote or published regarding people's right to defend their own freedom stand up for their own values, think for themselves, be self determined, be in control of their own minds, be able to stop - change - and start their own thoughts, imagine red triangles of blue circles or "hold the corners of the room" with their minds etc. etc. etc.

They will have to spell out explicitly what practices are allowed and what practices are not allowed and have all these named practices clearly defined and the reasons why they are not allowed and some kind of hard research results provided showing when it was proven that any such practice is actually harmful or detrimental in any way.

As far as I'm concerned it's a malicious suppressive rumor apparently started years ago by who knows who which sounded reasonable enough that people believed it and tried to enforce it, after all, the auditors code does say not to mix practices, but as far as I can determine the rumor is actually without any foundation.

It may very well be that there are x-scientologists here who have had ethics actions and so forth taken out on them for practicing meditation or some such thing but apparently that was action that should not have been taken and was based upon a misinterpretation of the auditors code.

Welcome the cognitively dissonant contrary onion layered cult called $cientology. Did you ever consider that you're a stat? A pet project to be molded? That you're being groomed (click link) and love bombed? Of course the $cio's are going to agree with you, to them it's cute you have your wog notions while quoting elcon ... it proves what great progress they are making with you. They will smile right now because you're performing for them as they measure you up. And you're a perfect candidate, alone, bored, no companionship, like a starved puppy but as you will soon find out you're just a juicy morsel. When the ethics and policy compliance come into play you probably will be too far gone to even consider running however please note you've been warned.

There's this little thing called KSW that $cio's are just besides themselves to apply. It could be called a mitosis of madness as it were. Here's your dox and remember this is only ONE of the HCO's that $cientology is going to hold you to. You might think you understand it and if you did you wouldn't go back ... ever.

(Emphasis mine)

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO POLICY LETTER OF
7 FEBRUARY 1965

KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING

Series I

Note: Neglect of this PL has caused great hardship on staffs,has cost countless millions and made it necessary in 1970 to engageiin an all-out, international effort to restore basic Scientology overthe world, Within 5 years after the issue of this PL, with me off thel lines, violation had almost destroyed orgs. "Quickie grades" enteredin and denied gain to tens of thousands of cases. Therefore actions which neglect or violate this policy letter are HIGH CRIMES resulting in Comm Evs on ADMINISTRATORS and EXECUTIVES. It is not "entirely a tech matter," as its neglect destroys orgs and caused a 2-year slump. IT IS THE BUSINESS OF EVERY STAFF MEMBER to enforce it.

SPECIAL MESSAGE

THE FOLLOWING POLICY LETTER MEANS WHAT IT SAYS

IT WAS TRUE IN 1965 WHEN I WROTE IT. IT WAS TRUE IN 1970 WHEN I HAD IT REISSUED. I AM REISSUING IT NOW, IN 1980, TO AVOID AGAIN SLIPPING BACK INTO A PERIOD OF OMITTEDAND QUICKIED FUNDAMENTAL GRADE CHART ACTIONS ON CASES, THEREBYDENYING GAINS AND THREATENING THE VIABILITY OF SCIENTOLOGY AND OF ORGS. SCIENTOLOGY WILL KEEP WORKING ONLY AS LONG AS YOU DO YOUR PART TO KEEP IT WORKING BY APPLYING THIS POLICY LETTER.

WHAT I SAY IN THESE PAGES HASALWAYS BEEN TRUE, IT HOLDS TRUE TODAY, IT WILL STILL HOLD TRUE IN THEYYEAR 2000 AND IT WlLL CONTINUE TO HOLD TRUE FROM THERE ON OUT.

NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN SCIENTOLOGY, ON STAFF OR NOT, THIS POLICY LETTER HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU.


ALL LEVELS

KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING

HCO Sec or Communicator hat check
on all personnel and all new personnel
as taken on.


We have some time since passed the point of achieving uniformly workable technology.

The only thing now is getting the technology applied.

If you can't get the technology applied, then you can't deliver what's promised. It's as simple as that. If you can get the technology applied, you can deliver what's promised.

The only thing you can be upbraided for by students or pcs is "no results." Trouble spots occur only where there are "no results." Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only where there are "no results" or "bad results."

Therefore the road before Scientology is clear and its ultimate success is assured if the technology is applied.

So it is the task of the Assoc or Org Sec, the HCO Sec, the Case Supervisor, the D of P, the D of T and all staff members to get the correct technology applied.

Getting the correct technology applied consists of:

One: Having the correct technology.
Two: Knowing the technology.
Three: Knowing it is correct.
Four: Teaching correctly the correct technology.
Five: Applying the technology.
Six: Seeing that the technology is correctly applied.
Seven: Hammering out of existence incorrect technology.
Eight: Knocking out incorrect applications.
Nine: Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology.
Ten: Closing the door on incorrect application.


One above has been done.
Two has been achieved by many.
Three is achieved by the individual applying the correct technology in a proper manner and observing that it works that way.
Four is being done daily successfully in most parts of the world.
Five is consistently accomplished daily.
Six is achieved by Instructors and Supervisors consistently.
Seven is done by a few but is a weak point.
Eight is not worked on hard enough.
Nine is impeded by the "reasonable" attitude of the not-quite-bright.
Ten is seldom done with enough ferocity.
Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten are the only places Scientology can bog down in any area.

The reasons for this are not hard to find. (a) A weak certainty that it works in Three above can lead to weakness in Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. (b) Further, the not-too-bright have a bad point on the button Self-Importance. (c) The lower the IQ, the more the individual is shut off from the fruits of observation. (d) The service facs of people make them defend themselves against anything they confront, good or bad, and seek to make it wrong. (e) The bank seeks to knock out the good and perpetuate the bad.

Thus, we as Scientologists and as an organization must be very alert to Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten.

In all the years I have been engaged in research I have kept my comm lines wide open for research data. I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea. Willing as I was to accept suggestions and data, only a handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long-run value and none were major or basic; and when I did accept major or basic suggestions and used them, we went astray and I repented and eventually had to "eat crow,"

On the other hand there have been thousands and thousands of suggestions and writings which, if accepted and acted upon, would have resulted in the complete destruction of all our work as well as the sanity of pcs. So I know what a group of people will do and how insane they will go in accepting unworkable "technology." By actual record the percentages are about twenty to 100,000 that a group of human beings will dream up bad technology to destroy good technology. As we could have gotten along without suggestions, then, we had better steel ourselves to continue to do so now that we have made it. This point will, of course, be attacked as "unpopular," "egotistical" and "undemocratic." It very well may be. But it is also a survival point. And I don't see that popular measures, self-abnegation and democracy have done anything for Man but push him further into the mud. Currently, popularity endorses degraded novels, self-abnegation has filled the Southeast Asian jungles with stone idols and corpses, and democracy has given us inflation and income tax.

Our technology has not been discovered by a group. True, if the group had not supported me in many ways, I could not have discovered it either. But it remains that if in its formative stages it was not discovered by a group, then group efforts, one can safely assume, will not add to it or successfully alter it in the future. I can only say this now that it is done. There remains, of course, group tabulation or coordination of what has been done, which will be valuable -- only so long as it does not seek to alter basic principles and successful applications.

The contributions that were worthwhile in this period of forming the technology were help in the form of friendship, of defense, of organization, of dissemination, of application, of advices on results and of finance. These were great contributions and were, and are, appreciated. Many thousands contributed in this way and made us what we are. Discovery contribution was not however part of the broad picture.

We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact -- the group left to its own devices would not have evolved Scientology but with wild dramatizations of the bank called "new ideas" would have wiped it out. Supporting this is the fact that Man has never before evolved workable mental technology and emphasizing it is the vicious technology he did evolve -- psychiatry, psychology, surgery, shock treatment, whips, duress, punishment, etc., ad infinitum.

So realize that we have climbed out of the mud by whatever good luck and good sense, and refuse to sink back into it again. See that Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten above are ruthlessly followed and we will never be stopped. Relax them, get reasonable about it and we will perish.

So far, while keeping myself in complete communication with all suggestions, I have not failed on Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten in areas I could supervise closely. But it's not good enough for just myself and a few others to work at this.

Whenever this control as per Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten has been relaxed, the whole organizational area has failed, Witness Elizabeth, N.J.; Wichita; the early organizations and groups. They crashed only because I no longer did Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. Then, when they were all messed up, you saw the obvious "reasons" for failure. But ahead of that they ceased to deliver and that involved them in other reasons.

The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles. Person to person the bank is identical. So constructive ideas are individual and seldom get broad agreement in a human group. An individual must rise above an avid craving for agreement from a humanoid group to get anything decent done. The bank-agreement has been what has made Earth a Hell -- and if you were looking for Hell and found Earth, it would certainly serve. War, famine, agony and disease has been the lot of Man. Right now the great governments of Earth have developed the means of frying every Man, Woman and Child on the planet. That is bank. That is the result of Collective-thought Agreement. The decent, pleasant things on this planet come from individual actions and ideas that have somehow gotten by the Group Idea. For that matter, look how we ourselves are attacked by "public opinion" media. Yet there is no more ethical group on this planet than ourselves.

Thus each one of us can rise above the domination of the bank and then, as a group of freed beings, achieve freedom and reason. It is only the aberrated group, the mob, that is destructive.

When you don't do Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten actively, you are working for the bank-dominated mob. For it will surely, surely (a) introduce incorrect technology and swear by it, (b) apply technology as incorrectly as possible, (c) open the door to any destructive idea, and (d) encourage incorrect application.

It's the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing. It's the bank that says we must fail.

So just don't play that game. Do Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten and you will knock out of your road all the future thorns.

Here's an actual example in which a senior executive had to interfere because of a pc spin: A Case Supervisor told Instructor A to have Auditor B run Process X on Preclear C. Auditor B afterwards told Instructor A that "It didn't work." Instructor A was weak on Three above and didn't really believe in Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. So Instructor A told the Case Supervisor, "Process X didn't work on Preclear C." Now this strikes directly at each of One to Six above in Preclear C, Auditor B, Instructor A and the Case Supervisor. It opens the door to the introduction of "new technology" and to failure.

What happened here? Instructor A didn't jump down Auditor B's throat, that's all that happened. This is what he should have done: Grabbed the Auditor's Report and looked it over. When a higher executive on this case did so, she found what the Case Supervisor and the rest missed: that Process X increased Preclear C's TA to 25 TA divisions for the session but that near session end Auditor B Q-and-Aed with a cognition and abandoned Process X while it still gave high TA and went off running one of Auditor B's own manufacture, which nearly spun Preclear C. Auditor B's IQ on examination turned out to be about 75. Instructor A was found to have huge ideas of how you must never invalidate anyone, even a lunatic. The Case Supervisor was found to be "too busy with admin to have any time for actual cases."

All right, there's an all-too-typical example. The Instructor should have done Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. This would have begun this way. Auditor B: "That Process X didn't work." Instructor A; "What exactly did you do wrong?" Instant attack. "Where's your Auditor's Report for the session? Good. Look here, you were getting a lot of TA when you stopped Process X, What did you do?" Then the pc wouldn't have come close to a spin and all four of these would have retained their certainty.

In a year, I had four instances in one small group where the correct process recommended was reported not to have worked. But on review found that each one had (a) increased the TA, (b) had been abandoned, and (c) had been falsely reported as unworkable. Also, despite this abuse, in each of these four cases the recommended, correct process cracked the case. Yet they were reported as not having worked!

Similar examples exist in instruction and these are all the more deadly as every time instruction in correct technology is flubbed, then the resulting error, uncorrected in the auditor, is perpetuated on every pc that auditor audits thereafter. So Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten are even more important in a course than in supervision of cases.

Here's an example: A rave recommendation is given a graduating student "because he gets more TA on pcs than any other student on the course!" Figures of 435 TA divisions a session are reported. "Of course his Model Session is poor but it's just a knack he has" is also included in the recommendation. A careful review is undertaken because nobody at Levels 0 to IV is going to get that much TA on pcs. It is found that this student was never taught to read an E-Meter TA dial! And no Instructor observed his handling of a meter and it was not discovered that he "overcompensated" nervously, swinging the TA 2 or 3 divisions beyond where it needed to go to place the needle at "set." So everyone was about to throw away standard processes and Model Session because this one student "got such remarkable TA." They only read the reports and listened to the brags and never looked at this student. The pcs in actual fact were making slightly less than average gain, impeded by a rough Model Session and misworded processes. Thus, what was making the pcs win (actual Scientology) was hidden under a lot of departures and errors.

I recall one student who was squirreling on an Academy course and running a lot of offbeat whole track on other students after course hours. The Academy students were in a state of electrification on all these new experiences and weren't quickly brought under control, and the student himself never was given the works on Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten so they stuck. Subsequently, this student prevented another squirrel from being straightened out and his wife died of cancer resulting from physical abuse. A hard, tough instructor at that moment could have salvaged two squirrels and saved the life of a girl. But no, students had a right to do whatever they pleased.

Squirreling (going off into weird practices or altering Scientology) only comes about from noncomprehension. Usually the noncomprehension is not of Scientology but some earlier contact with an offbeat humanoid practice which in its turn was not understood.

When people can't get results from what they think is standard practice, they can be counted upon to squirrel to some degree. The most trouble in the past two years came from orgs where an executive in each could not assimilate straight Scientology. Under instruction in Scientology, they were unable to define terms or demonstrate examples of principles. And the orgs where they were got into plenty of trouble. And worse, it could not be straightened out easily because neither one of these people could or would duplicate instructions. Hence, a debacle resulted in two places, directly traced to failures of instruction earlier. So proper instruction is vital. The D of T and his Instructors and all Scientology Instructors must be merciless in getting Four, Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten into effective action. That one student, dumb and impossible though he may seem and of no use to anyone, may yet someday be the cause of untold upset because nobody was interested enough to make sure Scientology got home to him.


With what we know now, there is no student we enroll who cannot be properly trained. As an Instructor, one should be very alert to slow progress and should turn the sluggards inside out personally. No system will do it, only you or me with our sleeves rolled up can crack the back of bad studenting and we can only do it on an individual student, never on a whole class only. He's slow = something is awful wrong. Take fast action to correct it. Don't wait until next week. By then he's got other messes stuck to him. If you can't graduate them with their good sense appealed to and wisdom shining, graduate them in such a state of shock they'll have nightmares if they contemplate squirreling. Then experience will gradually bring about Three in them and they'll know better than to chase butterflies when they should be auditing.

When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe -- never permit an "open-minded" approach. If they're going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they're aboard; and if they're aboard, they're here on the same terms as the rest of us -- win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of panty-waist dilettantes have ever made anything. It's a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive -- and even they have a hard time. We'll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly, he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don't make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she'll win and we'll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is "You're here so you're a Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens, We'd rather have you dead than incapable."

Fit that into the economics of the situation and lack of adequate time and you see the cross we have to bear.

But we won't have to bear it forever. The bigger we get, the more economics and time we will have to do our job. And the only things which can prevent us from getting that big fast are areas in from One to Ten. Keep those in mind and we'll be able to grow. Fast. And as we grow, our shackles will be less and less. Failing to keep One to Ten will make us grow less.

So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It's our possible failure to retain and practice our technology.

An Instructor or Supervisor or Executive must challenge with ferocity instances of "unworkability." They must uncover what did happen, what was run and what was done or not done.

If you have One and Two, you can only acquire Three for all by making sure of all the rest.

We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't cute or something to do for lack of something better.

The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology.

This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.

Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past. Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten.

L. RON HUBBARD
FOUNDER
 
One thing in the Creed of a Scientologist bothers me a bit as it seems like a rather blatant contradiction.

"That the study of the Mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in nonreligious fields."


Ummm..... Dianetics is still billed as "The modern SCIENCE of mental health". correct ?

Scientology is supposed to have been rather rigorously developed through the use of scientific methodology. Or so it has been suggested by Hubbard himself rather consistently.

At any rate, I don't personally believe that study of the mind should be confined to religion. God forbid.

Sure, OK, lets not "alienate it from religion" no problem but that it "should not... be condoned in nonreligious fields" ? Somehow that seems to me to be going a little overboard. Last time I checked, Science is a nonreligious field, so wouldn't that make "The modern Science of Mental Health" a nonreligious field? Should Science be prevented from addressing the problem of psychosomatic ills ? Should scientists be excluded from "study of the mind" ?

To the extent that Scientology and Dianetics are sciences or to the extent that they have been developed through the use of scientific methodology, as claimed, would that not mean that Scientologists should fight to exclude Dianticists and Scientologists from their own practices ?

Should all the developments in scientology and dianetics be discarded if it is found that they were actually discovered or developed through the use of the scientific method ?

I attend Sunday services at the church and can petty much agree wholeheartedly with the rest of the creed, but every time that line is read I'm just not able to reconcile it in my mind.

I certainly agree that things like lobotomies and electroshock and drugging children should be vehemently protested against. But I would dare say that without a long history of scientific study of the mind and psychosomatic illness and so forth as a foundation to build upon, there would be no such thing as Dianetics and Scientology. There wouldn't have even be the terminology in existence to discuss it at the time it was developed.

nice to see you here tom

i'd like to pay more attention to your writing but the little i've seen looks good...
 

Gib

Crusader
Welcome the cognitively dissonant contrary onion layered cult called $cientology. Did you ever consider that you're a stat? A pet project to be molded? That you're being groomed (click link) and love bombed? Of course the $cio's are going to agree with you, to them it's cute you have your wog notions while quoting elcon ... it proves what great progress they are making with you. They will smile right now because you're performing for them as they measure you up. And you're a perfect candidate, alone, bored, no companionship, like a starved puppy but as you will soon find out you're just a juicy morsel. When the ethics and policy compliance come into play you probably will be too far gone to even consider running however please note you've been warned.

There's this little thing called KSW that $cio's are just besides themselves to apply. It could be called a mitosis of madness as it were. Here's your dox and remember this is only ONE of the HCO's that $cientology is going to hold you to. You might think you understand it and if you did you wouldn't go back ... ever.

(Emphasis mine)

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO POLICY LETTER OF
7 FEBRUARY 1965

KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING

Series I

Note: Neglect of this PL has caused great hardship on staffs,has cost countless millions and made it necessary in 1970 to engageiin an all-out, international effort to restore basic Scientology overthe world, Within 5 years after the issue of this PL, with me off thel lines, violation had almost destroyed orgs. "Quickie grades" enteredin and denied gain to tens of thousands of cases. Therefore actions which neglect or violate this policy letter are HIGH CRIMES resulting in Comm Evs on ADMINISTRATORS and EXECUTIVES. It is not "entirely a tech matter," as its neglect destroys orgs and caused a 2-year slump. IT IS THE BUSINESS OF EVERY STAFF MEMBER to enforce it.

SPECIAL MESSAGE

THE FOLLOWING POLICY LETTER MEANS WHAT IT SAYS

IT WAS TRUE IN 1965 WHEN I WROTE IT. IT WAS TRUE IN 1970 WHEN I HAD IT REISSUED. I AM REISSUING IT NOW, IN 1980, TO AVOID AGAIN SLIPPING BACK INTO A PERIOD OF OMITTEDAND QUICKIED FUNDAMENTAL GRADE CHART ACTIONS ON CASES, THEREBYDENYING GAINS AND THREATENING THE VIABILITY OF SCIENTOLOGY AND OF ORGS. SCIENTOLOGY WILL KEEP WORKING ONLY AS LONG AS YOU DO YOUR PART TO KEEP IT WORKING BY APPLYING THIS POLICY LETTER.

WHAT I SAY IN THESE PAGES HASALWAYS BEEN TRUE, IT HOLDS TRUE TODAY, IT WILL STILL HOLD TRUE IN THEYYEAR 2000 AND IT WlLL CONTINUE TO HOLD TRUE FROM THERE ON OUT.

NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN SCIENTOLOGY, ON STAFF OR NOT, THIS POLICY LETTER HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU.


ALL LEVELS

KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING

HCO Sec or Communicator hat check
on all personnel and all new personnel
as taken on.


We have some time since passed the point of achieving uniformly workable technology.

The only thing now is getting the technology applied.

If you can't get the technology applied, then you can't deliver what's promised. It's as simple as that. If you can get the technology applied, you can deliver what's promised.

The only thing you can be upbraided for by students or pcs is "no results." Trouble spots occur only where there are "no results." Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only where there are "no results" or "bad results."

Therefore the road before Scientology is clear and its ultimate success is assured if the technology is applied.

So it is the task of the Assoc or Org Sec, the HCO Sec, the Case Supervisor, the D of P, the D of T and all staff members to get the correct technology applied.

Getting the correct technology applied consists of:

One: Having the correct technology.
Two: Knowing the technology.
Three: Knowing it is correct.
Four: Teaching correctly the correct technology.
Five: Applying the technology.
Six: Seeing that the technology is correctly applied.
Seven: Hammering out of existence incorrect technology.
Eight: Knocking out incorrect applications.
Nine: Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology.
Ten: Closing the door on incorrect application.


One above has been done.
Two has been achieved by many.
Three is achieved by the individual applying the correct technology in a proper manner and observing that it works that way.
Four is being done daily successfully in most parts of the world.
Five is consistently accomplished daily.
Six is achieved by Instructors and Supervisors consistently.
Seven is done by a few but is a weak point.
Eight is not worked on hard enough.
Nine is impeded by the "reasonable" attitude of the not-quite-bright.
Ten is seldom done with enough ferocity.
Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten are the only places Scientology can bog down in any area.

The reasons for this are not hard to find. (a) A weak certainty that it works in Three above can lead to weakness in Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. (b) Further, the not-too-bright have a bad point on the button Self-Importance. (c) The lower the IQ, the more the individual is shut off from the fruits of observation. (d) The service facs of people make them defend themselves against anything they confront, good or bad, and seek to make it wrong. (e) The bank seeks to knock out the good and perpetuate the bad.

Thus, we as Scientologists and as an organization must be very alert to Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten.

In all the years I have been engaged in research I have kept my comm lines wide open for research data. I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea. Willing as I was to accept suggestions and data, only a handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long-run value and none were major or basic; and when I did accept major or basic suggestions and used them, we went astray and I repented and eventually had to "eat crow,"

On the other hand there have been thousands and thousands of suggestions and writings which, if accepted and acted upon, would have resulted in the complete destruction of all our work as well as the sanity of pcs. So I know what a group of people will do and how insane they will go in accepting unworkable "technology." By actual record the percentages are about twenty to 100,000 that a group of human beings will dream up bad technology to destroy good technology. As we could have gotten along without suggestions, then, we had better steel ourselves to continue to do so now that we have made it. This point will, of course, be attacked as "unpopular," "egotistical" and "undemocratic." It very well may be. But it is also a survival point. And I don't see that popular measures, self-abnegation and democracy have done anything for Man but push him further into the mud. Currently, popularity endorses degraded novels, self-abnegation has filled the Southeast Asian jungles with stone idols and corpses, and democracy has given us inflation and income tax.

Our technology has not been discovered by a group. True, if the group had not supported me in many ways, I could not have discovered it either. But it remains that if in its formative stages it was not discovered by a group, then group efforts, one can safely assume, will not add to it or successfully alter it in the future. I can only say this now that it is done. There remains, of course, group tabulation or coordination of what has been done, which will be valuable -- only so long as it does not seek to alter basic principles and successful applications.

The contributions that were worthwhile in this period of forming the technology were help in the form of friendship, of defense, of organization, of dissemination, of application, of advices on results and of finance. These were great contributions and were, and are, appreciated. Many thousands contributed in this way and made us what we are. Discovery contribution was not however part of the broad picture.

We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact -- the group left to its own devices would not have evolved Scientology but with wild dramatizations of the bank called "new ideas" would have wiped it out. Supporting this is the fact that Man has never before evolved workable mental technology and emphasizing it is the vicious technology he did evolve -- psychiatry, psychology, surgery, shock treatment, whips, duress, punishment, etc., ad infinitum.

So realize that we have climbed out of the mud by whatever good luck and good sense, and refuse to sink back into it again. See that Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten above are ruthlessly followed and we will never be stopped. Relax them, get reasonable about it and we will perish.

So far, while keeping myself in complete communication with all suggestions, I have not failed on Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten in areas I could supervise closely. But it's not good enough for just myself and a few others to work at this.

Whenever this control as per Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten has been relaxed, the whole organizational area has failed, Witness Elizabeth, N.J.; Wichita; the early organizations and groups. They crashed only because I no longer did Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. Then, when they were all messed up, you saw the obvious "reasons" for failure. But ahead of that they ceased to deliver and that involved them in other reasons.

The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles. Person to person the bank is identical. So constructive ideas are individual and seldom get broad agreement in a human group. An individual must rise above an avid craving for agreement from a humanoid group to get anything decent done. The bank-agreement has been what has made Earth a Hell -- and if you were looking for Hell and found Earth, it would certainly serve. War, famine, agony and disease has been the lot of Man. Right now the great governments of Earth have developed the means of frying every Man, Woman and Child on the planet. That is bank. That is the result of Collective-thought Agreement. The decent, pleasant things on this planet come from individual actions and ideas that have somehow gotten by the Group Idea. For that matter, look how we ourselves are attacked by "public opinion" media. Yet there is no more ethical group on this planet than ourselves.

Thus each one of us can rise above the domination of the bank and then, as a group of freed beings, achieve freedom and reason. It is only the aberrated group, the mob, that is destructive.

When you don't do Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten actively, you are working for the bank-dominated mob. For it will surely, surely (a) introduce incorrect technology and swear by it, (b) apply technology as incorrectly as possible, (c) open the door to any destructive idea, and (d) encourage incorrect application.

It's the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing. It's the bank that says we must fail.

So just don't play that game. Do Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten and you will knock out of your road all the future thorns.

Here's an actual example in which a senior executive had to interfere because of a pc spin: A Case Supervisor told Instructor A to have Auditor B run Process X on Preclear C. Auditor B afterwards told Instructor A that "It didn't work." Instructor A was weak on Three above and didn't really believe in Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. So Instructor A told the Case Supervisor, "Process X didn't work on Preclear C." Now this strikes directly at each of One to Six above in Preclear C, Auditor B, Instructor A and the Case Supervisor. It opens the door to the introduction of "new technology" and to failure.

What happened here? Instructor A didn't jump down Auditor B's throat, that's all that happened. This is what he should have done: Grabbed the Auditor's Report and looked it over. When a higher executive on this case did so, she found what the Case Supervisor and the rest missed: that Process X increased Preclear C's TA to 25 TA divisions for the session but that near session end Auditor B Q-and-Aed with a cognition and abandoned Process X while it still gave high TA and went off running one of Auditor B's own manufacture, which nearly spun Preclear C. Auditor B's IQ on examination turned out to be about 75. Instructor A was found to have huge ideas of how you must never invalidate anyone, even a lunatic. The Case Supervisor was found to be "too busy with admin to have any time for actual cases."

All right, there's an all-too-typical example. The Instructor should have done Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten. This would have begun this way. Auditor B: "That Process X didn't work." Instructor A; "What exactly did you do wrong?" Instant attack. "Where's your Auditor's Report for the session? Good. Look here, you were getting a lot of TA when you stopped Process X, What did you do?" Then the pc wouldn't have come close to a spin and all four of these would have retained their certainty.

In a year, I had four instances in one small group where the correct process recommended was reported not to have worked. But on review found that each one had (a) increased the TA, (b) had been abandoned, and (c) had been falsely reported as unworkable. Also, despite this abuse, in each of these four cases the recommended, correct process cracked the case. Yet they were reported as not having worked!

Similar examples exist in instruction and these are all the more deadly as every time instruction in correct technology is flubbed, then the resulting error, uncorrected in the auditor, is perpetuated on every pc that auditor audits thereafter. So Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten are even more important in a course than in supervision of cases.

Here's an example: A rave recommendation is given a graduating student "because he gets more TA on pcs than any other student on the course!" Figures of 435 TA divisions a session are reported. "Of course his Model Session is poor but it's just a knack he has" is also included in the recommendation. A careful review is undertaken because nobody at Levels 0 to IV is going to get that much TA on pcs. It is found that this student was never taught to read an E-Meter TA dial! And no Instructor observed his handling of a meter and it was not discovered that he "overcompensated" nervously, swinging the TA 2 or 3 divisions beyond where it needed to go to place the needle at "set." So everyone was about to throw away standard processes and Model Session because this one student "got such remarkable TA." They only read the reports and listened to the brags and never looked at this student. The pcs in actual fact were making slightly less than average gain, impeded by a rough Model Session and misworded processes. Thus, what was making the pcs win (actual Scientology) was hidden under a lot of departures and errors.

I recall one student who was squirreling on an Academy course and running a lot of offbeat whole track on other students after course hours. The Academy students were in a state of electrification on all these new experiences and weren't quickly brought under control, and the student himself never was given the works on Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten so they stuck. Subsequently, this student prevented another squirrel from being straightened out and his wife died of cancer resulting from physical abuse. A hard, tough instructor at that moment could have salvaged two squirrels and saved the life of a girl. But no, students had a right to do whatever they pleased.

Squirreling (going off into weird practices or altering Scientology) only comes about from noncomprehension. Usually the noncomprehension is not of Scientology but some earlier contact with an offbeat humanoid practice which in its turn was not understood.

When people can't get results from what they think is standard practice, they can be counted upon to squirrel to some degree. The most trouble in the past two years came from orgs where an executive in each could not assimilate straight Scientology. Under instruction in Scientology, they were unable to define terms or demonstrate examples of principles. And the orgs where they were got into plenty of trouble. And worse, it could not be straightened out easily because neither one of these people could or would duplicate instructions. Hence, a debacle resulted in two places, directly traced to failures of instruction earlier. So proper instruction is vital. The D of T and his Instructors and all Scientology Instructors must be merciless in getting Four, Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten into effective action. That one student, dumb and impossible though he may seem and of no use to anyone, may yet someday be the cause of untold upset because nobody was interested enough to make sure Scientology got home to him.


With what we know now, there is no student we enroll who cannot be properly trained. As an Instructor, one should be very alert to slow progress and should turn the sluggards inside out personally. No system will do it, only you or me with our sleeves rolled up can crack the back of bad studenting and we can only do it on an individual student, never on a whole class only. He's slow = something is awful wrong. Take fast action to correct it. Don't wait until next week. By then he's got other messes stuck to him. If you can't graduate them with their good sense appealed to and wisdom shining, graduate them in such a state of shock they'll have nightmares if they contemplate squirreling. Then experience will gradually bring about Three in them and they'll know better than to chase butterflies when they should be auditing.

When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe -- never permit an "open-minded" approach. If they're going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they're aboard; and if they're aboard, they're here on the same terms as the rest of us -- win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest organizations in history have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of panty-waist dilettantes have ever made anything. It's a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive -- and even they have a hard time. We'll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly, he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don't make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she'll win and we'll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is "You're here so you're a Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens, We'd rather have you dead than incapable."

Fit that into the economics of the situation and lack of adequate time and you see the cross we have to bear.

But we won't have to bear it forever. The bigger we get, the more economics and time we will have to do our job. And the only things which can prevent us from getting that big fast are areas in from One to Ten. Keep those in mind and we'll be able to grow. Fast. And as we grow, our shackles will be less and less. Failing to keep One to Ten will make us grow less.

So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It's our possible failure to retain and practice our technology.

An Instructor or Supervisor or Executive must challenge with ferocity instances of "unworkability." They must uncover what did happen, what was run and what was done or not done.

If you have One and Two, you can only acquire Three for all by making sure of all the rest.

We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't cute or something to do for lack of something better.

The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology.

This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.

Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past. Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten.

L. RON HUBBARD
FOUNDER

It's quite funny, cuz scientologists have read KSW many number of times over,

or as Hubbard says number of times over is certainty,

the still in members still don't get it.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

They have been duped by DM

and also LRH.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
 

Tom_Booth

Patron with Honors
Well, this isn't what I was referring to but it may provide food for thought.

HCO BULLETIN OF 18 APRIL 1967

(...)

Scientology does not conflict with other Religions or Religious Practices as it clarifies them and brings understanding of the spiritual nature of man.

Scientology has amongst its members people of all the major faiths,...

Scientology’s closest spiritual ties with any other religion are with Orthodox (Hinayana) Buddhism....
(...)
Copyright © 1967
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

From my personal experience in the church so-far, the above seems to be mostly true. The religious backgrounds of staff members is very diverse. Many still have their own religious affiliations and practices.

The only issue I ran into was that there seemed to be a kind of vague consensus that "meditation" was something staff members were not allowed to do. However, the first person who informed me of this over the phone also said that I should come into the church anyway as she said: "I'm not going to be the bad guy to tell you you can't meditate." Also I had the same discussion on the phone before traveling to the org. with someone who is pretty much in charge of setting up the "Ideal Orgs" all over the country and who has been in Scientology for a very long time. He told me that I was right. That there is no prohibition against meditation and that he thought I would be good for the Harlem Org.

On that basis I decided to go ahead and give it a try. Before signing the commitment form I was told again, "you know, when you join staff you won't be allowed to meditate right ?" We went through the whole debate again. Then it was pointed out to me that the commitment form itself said nothing of the sort. That is, there is no wording in the staff commitment form that suggests a staff member cannot meditate. I did not sign anything agreeing to cease and desist from meditation.

From then on the issue seemed to have been dropped, but I brought it up again at Sunday Service after the reading of the Creed of a Scientologist.

After the reading I raised my hand and spoke up saying that "I've heard this RUMOR that scientologists are not allowed to meditate, yet the creed just read says people have a right to their own religion and its practices. This seems like a contradiction to me. I'd like to have this resolved."

It was at that point that I was shown the auditors code about not mixing practices. I pointed out that in a footnote it states that this applies to an auditing session.

That, apparently, was the end of that. That was all several months ago. Nobody could come up with anything additional written or published material to support the idea that Scientologists aren't supposed to meditate.

"MIXING" Scientology auditing with other practices is certainly a no-no. As an auditor, Don't try to somehow combine auditing with your own personal religious practices. People do not come to a Church of Scientology to learn meditation or yoga or to hear anyone's personal religious views. But applying "standard tech" and KSW does not mean Scientologists cannot have their own religion or that they are not free to practice their own religion. IN PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME. An auditor is an auditor not a yoga instructor.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

"MIXING" Scientology auditing with other practices is certainly a no-no. As an auditor, Don't try to somehow combine auditing with your own personal religious practices.

What if the auditing with other practices is done away from the Org? in private, on one's own time?

And what if it's not private?

What if one tells others about it outside the Org, or advertises outside the Org? or starts one's own group? Is that OK?

People do not come to a Church of Scientology to learn meditation or yoga or to hear anyone's personal religious views.

Oh, so I guess you won't be posting any Yoga or Zen class notices on the Org bulletin board for the other meditators, or potential meditators, at the Org to read.

But applying "standard tech" and KSW does not mean Scientologists cannot have their own religion or that they are not free to practice their own religion. IN PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME. An auditor is an auditor not a yoga instructor.

Yoga is not a religion. Most systems of meditation, and certainly other psychological exercises, are not religious. Are they OK to do IN PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME? [sic]

What would happen to someone who mixed some part of Scientology with his PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME alternative mental disciple or exercise? Would that be OK?

From the [mid 1950s] "Creed of the Church of Scientology":

"That all men have the inalienable rights to conceive, chose, assist and support their own organizations, churches, and governments.

"That all men have the inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter and write upon the opinions of others.
"
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
What if the auditing with other practices is done away from the Org? in private, on one's own time?

And what if it's not private?

What if one tells others about it outside the Org, or advertises outside the Org? or starts one's own group? Is that OK?



Oh, so I guess you won't be posting any Yoga or Zen class notices on the Org bulletin board for the other meditators, or potential meditators, at the Org to read.



Yoga is not a religion. Most systems of meditation, and certainly other psychological exercises, are not religious. Are they OK to do IN PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME? [sic]

What would happen to someone who mixed some part of Scientology with his PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME alternative mental disciple or exercise? Would that be OK?

From the [mid 1950s] "Creed of the Church of Scientology":

"That all men have the inalienable rights to conceive, chose, assist and support their own organizations, churches, and governments.

"That all men have the inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter and write upon the opinions of others.
"

I don't know what it was like in the CofS (probably worse?), but one thing I remember is that if you were having auditing in the FZ centre I was at, you weren't supposed to do any other practices at the same time as that was going on. The reason was that the C/S wanted to be able to monitor the changes you were experiencing as a result of the work they were doing with you, in order to know what to do next.

That strikes me as fair.

There was no restriction on getting involved in other practices at any other time, and in fact I went to a White Eagle church during the latter part of my time there (and had an anthroposophical doctor and attended an art class at the local Steiner art centre). A few of us did martial arts too, including ki aikido.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: "mixing methods"

To address this, first I'd ask if the reader wanted a real answer or a PR answer. Meaning- there's the stated or implied conceptual "tech" reason, but there's the real underlying motive. Not the same thing.

For the former, it's a requirement found in other disciplines. Hub didn't invent it. The idea is that mixing methods obscures or muddies results, one cannot track one's progress, etc.

For the latter? Simple! Hub's cult didn't and still doesn't want the competition for your time and money. And tgey want to supplant all accredited and non accredited therapies, methods, medicine-you name it.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I don't know what it was like in the CofS

-snip-

This latest discussion is about the CofS, and also about Hubbard's overt/covert instructions to his starry-eyed followers. It's not about the Freezone, or FreeZone, or Free Zone.

Either Tom Booth is some kind of 1) OSA operative, 2) a dupe&operative combo, 3) a weird accident, or 4) just a very confused person.

Either way, he probably doesn't need any more confusion.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hi Tom_Booth. How did that talk at the Org go?

Give us an update.

-snip-

Someone did call me from the org a few minutes ago. Not someone who usually calls me. Was wondering when I was coming in, said we had some things to talk about.

I guess I'll have some explaining to do
if you guys have been calling there asking stupid questions.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
This latest discussion is about the CofS, and also about Hubbard's overt/covert instructions to his starry-eyed followers. It's not about the Freezone, or FreeZone, or Free Zone.

Either Tom Booth is some kind of 1) OSA operative, 2) a dupe&operative combo, 3) a weird accident, or 4) just a very confused person.

Either way, he probably doesn't need any more confusion.

All these answers :biggrin:

It's amazin how TOM, behave, write, react or not react, almost identical than Kate.

Another quote here


Tom_Booth said:
But as Tory pointed out, I've highjacked this thread. Not intentionally but people keep asking questions and addressing me and I don't want to be rude by not responding

Same reply than Kate used before creating her ''own thread'' for playing Ask\answer.

:coolwink:
 
One thing in the Creed of a Scientologist bothers me a bit as it seems like a rather blatant contradiction.

"That the study of the Mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in nonreligious fields."

Ummm..... Dianetics is still billed as "The modern SCIENCE of mental health". correct ?/QUOTE]

NO scientology is NOT a science. Has it stolen some stuff from different sciences - Yes. However it isn't run like a science, nor are it's processes run like science. Also scientology doesn't use the scientific method.

This might help you understand science ...

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/whatisscience_01
http://www.sciencecouncil.org/definition
http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_03 (probably most important in understand what is and isn't a science)
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/science-definition.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/09/
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
One thing in the Creed of a Scientologist bothers me a bit as it seems like a rather blatant contradiction.

"That the study of the Mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in nonreligious fields."

Ummm..... Dianetics is still billed as "The modern SCIENCE of mental health". correct ?/QUOTE]

NO scientology is NOT a science. Has it stolen some stuff from different sciences - Yes. However it isn't run like a science, nor are it's processes run like science. Also scientology doesn't use the scientific method.

This might help you understand science ...

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/whatisscience_01
http://www.sciencecouncil.org/definition
http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_03 (probably most important in understand what is and isn't a science)
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/science-definition.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/09/

Well, it's Scientology, not sciencetology...but, that being said, they want to have it both ways. First, it's just Dianetics that's allegedly scientific, but...wait! Lo and behold! The spiritual thingamabob is also scientific but somehow not.

I still think it's cuz they want to take over and replace religion, medicine, neurology...all kinds of stuff.

Nice work if ya can get it.
 
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