Is Scientology Imploding? Watching the Panic after Debbie Cooks email

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
This COULD be the beginning of the final collapse sequence, but, if it is, it is akin to that very first raindrop before a thunderstorm. It could take a significant amount of time from the first raindrop until it begins to pour.

Most of what I know of the current day Cof$ is from reading on here and on OCMB, because I got out in the early 80's prior to the famous mission holder meeting in San Francisco in October of 1982, and the Cof$ world has changed a great deal since. That being said ... my understanding is that Flag is the main money source currently, and that the Cof$ is all about the money. True, Flag has brought the lower level bridge onboard, but the big money is from high powered public, multi million dollar families, and extracting the bucks from them is a combo of 1) high end redges and 2) high end auditors to deliver L's and/or C/S the wannabee oatees and do their 6 month wool shearings oops I meant sec checks.

There are two pinch points ... there are a finite number of sheep to shear, and they are not getting replaced as fast as losses due to attrition, which has been accelerated in recent years due to bad PR, Anonymous, and, of course, the internet. The other pinch point is potentially more deadly to them ... their high end redges and their high end auditors. Considering how few people we are talking about here ... about 20 of these high end skilled people walking out due to some sort of internal flap could initiate the final collapse sequence. It would be hard to replace a redge who spends 80 hours per week sucking 200k out of the pockets of high end public with some outer org staff or mission staff div 6 body router, no matter how enthusiastic he or she is. And it would be problematic trying to replace some L 12 auditor with an HQS course grad, if there even is such a thing anymore.
Also, unlike a football team that is "deep" and has an excellent second string and can easily replace a star quarterback with someone just about as good who needs the big break, I doubt that there is much of a second string when it comes to star auditors and redges over at Flag.

Pete
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
This COULD be the beginning of the final collapse sequence, but, if it is, it is akin to that very first raindrop before a thunderstorm. It could take a significant amount of time from the first raindrop until it begins to pour.

Most of what I know of the current day Cof$ is from reading on here and on OCMB, because I got out in the early 80's prior to the famous mission holder meeting in San Francisco in October of 1982, and the Cof$ world has changed a great deal since. That being said ... my understanding is that Flag is the main money source currently, and that the Cof$ is all about the money. True, Flag has brought the lower level bridge onboard, but the big money is from high powered public, multi million dollar families, and extracting the bucks from them is a combo of 1) high end redges and 2) high end auditors to deliver L's and/or C/S the wannabee oatees and do their 6 month wool shearings oops I meant sec checks.

There are two pinch points ... there are a finite number of sheep to shear, and they are not getting replaced as fast as losses due to attrition, which has been accelerated in recent years due to bad PR, Anonymous, and, of course, the internet. The other pinch point is potentially more deadly to them ... their high end redges and their high end auditors. Considering how few people we are talking about here ... about 20 of these high end skilled people walking out due to some sort of internal flap could initiate the final collapse sequence. It would be hard to replace a redge who spends 80 hours per week sucking 200k out of the pockets of high end public with some outer org staff or mission staff div 6 body router, no matter how enthusiastic he or she is. And it would be problematic trying to replace some L 12 auditor with an HQS course grad, if there even is such a thing anymore.
Also, unlike a football team that is "deep" and has an excellent second string and can easily replace a star quarterback with someone just about as good who needs the big break, I doubt that there is much of a second string when it comes to star auditors and redges over at Flag.

Pete

I think you're absolutely right. I don't think they have much in the way of backup.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Some more Comments (at the bottom of the article page).

SleepsWithThePods
And just within less than 24 hours, I have gathered here the KeyWords of all global media headlines. Note: God, Humanity, Compassion, and Love nowhere to be found herein:


"Scientologists At War, Civil War, Mutiny, Launch, Attack, Beginning of the End, Challenge, Bagged a Billion, Rebellion, Blasts, Extreme, Internal Struggle, Schism, Termination, Imploding, Obsessive, Greedy, Feud, Tyrannical, Panic, Tyrant, Greed"
"Scientologists At War, Civil War, Mutiny, Launch, Attack, Beginning of the End, Challenge, Bagged a Billion, Rebellion, Blasts, Extreme, Internal Struggle, Schism, Termination, Imploding, Obsessive, Greedy, Feud, Tyrannical, Panic, Tyrant, Greed"

Jefferson Hawkins 6 hours ago
I love their assertion of "27 new orgs." Typical Scientology shell game. In fact, the majority of those are the same old orgs that they have had for the last 20 years, moved into big new (and empty) buildings as part of their "Ideal Orgs" real estate scam. Scientology members are pressured to contribute millions to buy a new building, then the ownership of that building transfers to the "Mother Church," not to the local organization. Meanwhile the local org is stuck with maintenance, renovation, utilities and property taxes on a huge, empty white elephant. And most are struggling to pay their bills.

Scientology used to publish address lists. They don't any more - wonder why? One of their last address lists, published in the 1998 edition of the book "What is Scientology?" listed 143 Churches of Scientology. If you go to their website and spend several hours with their complex "Org Locator," you can see that the total now is around 140. For every "new" org that opens, another is quietly closed or merged, all under the banner of "expansion." The new "Ideal Org" in Copenhagen, for instance, is a merger of two earlier organizations. Same in London, Paris, and my city, Portland.

As for their "Mission" network - supposedly hundreds of smaller "starter' organizations, these have all but disappeared. Those that still exist are usually two guys and a dog in someone's living room. They used to be big, going organizations with 20 or 30 staff. Now their "Ideal Orgs" aren't even that big.

Check it out yourself. Look up the address of the local "Mission of Scientology" in your city, and go there and see what you find. Probably an empty building or a dry cleaning business, or a used clothing store - as I found here in Portland.

Or visit your local "Ideal Org," get a tour, and see how many people are actually inside.

And did you notice that "thousands of Scientologists" in their press release? What happened to your "millions," Scientology?

SleepsWithThePods 6 hours ago in reply to Jefferson Hawkins
I fell of my chair when I saw "thousands". Is Karin sending out a secret wink-wink code? I actually wondered that, Jeff, when I read it. Wait a sec. This is at least the 2nd time she recently is quoted with thousands, so not a sleep deprived error.

Also, had no idea no more addresses listed!
Can you imagine a restaurant chain promoting "Over 12 Million sold at ...." but won't list addresses of any of their locations? Honestly, what more do these leftover sheep need to understand DM does Not want them bothering him anymore for services or complaints, and he is Not taking Requests. The only address they have is the PO Boxes marked on their Donations Return envelopes. Big Friggin Clues left everywhere!

You may have helped Bunker with that title addition.
Knowledge Report: Two Guys and a Dog (with Cookies)

Kim O'Brien 5 hours ago
I just went and looked at all of the articles in the "update" that Tony provided. HOLY COW - . Not only is the email explosive within the articles but the hilarity about the thetan, xenu thing is just as telling . The daily Mail's article is titled " What will the Thetans say ? " ...the Telegraph piece lays out the xenu thing right away - the USA article gives a link to her facebook page with comments that you can expand ...6 more people within the "church" seem to agree with Cook.

feettothefire 5 hours ago
The damage control is already underway as my "good roads, fair weather" son emailed me after I sent him the article thanking me in neutral tones for my concern. That means that they have gotten the word out to everybody down to the lower levels that this is either a hoax or that this is false and evil. Just the fact that he responded to my email means that he filed a KR and that this is how they want him to respond. Others with him have also started to send gifts to appease the situation again signifying how they are truly concerned about the damage this will cause. As a member of FUSS - families under scientology stress, this is pure music
.


touretzky 2 hours ago
Debbie Cook's letter has put DM is in a Catch-22 situation: once people read it, every time Scientology pressures them for donations they'll be reminded yet again that Debbie was right. So much for this year's big New Year's video message from COB; she's ruined it. So suppose DM backs off the heavy fundraising and just pushes people to pay for their bridge? Well, in that case people are going to want services -- and DM can't provide them. They'll discover that the number of competent auditors is way down. That the quality of "service" at FLAG is far from the level of perfection they expect. And that, more than 15 years after Scientology started raising funds for the Super Power building, they still aren't able to offer the rundown. If you can't get decent services from CoS at any price, what's the point of remaining a member in good standing? Maybe it's time to close the checkbook and wait for LRH to return.
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
And think of the "withholds" this creates, in EVERYONE on lines! which would tend to make people stay away from the org, find excuses not to go to events, to come in for courses, or...

and the MISSED withholds!

WHAT DID DEBBIE DO THAT MADE YOU THINK SHE KNEW

that you were secretly disaffected? How the hell did she get your email? did she get it from someone who passed it along to her because of some off-the-wall comment you made awhile back about...

OMFG! :roflmao:



And the Mutual Out ruds?:omg::eyeroll::duh::ohmy::omg:



Opter
 
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Lulu Belle

Moonbat
In her email Debbie said not to pay for anything other than services.

This is where my understanding fails miserably.:blush:

Won't people who agree with her be apprehensive about returning in case their agreement turns up in session and causes them a whole heap of expensive trouble?

Won't people who publicly disagree with her also be apprehensive? Because they did recognise some truth in the mail, even if it was only Hubbard's quote. What if that came out in session?

Would any of the 12 000 be guilty of pulling the mail in?

If people, who are in the middle of a critical process, are now too jittery to return, where do these people go? What are they supposed to do?

:iagree:

There is no "just paying for services". You can't do services without paying for your IAS membership. Even if by some miraculous process you managed to get permission to get on lines without a membership, you would have to pay full price for everything because you don't have a membership. Which means no packages, no sliding scale on intensives, no membership discount. Which would wind up costing you more than if you had just bought the fucking thing.

I know a lot of people think that Debbie Cook has totally thought this out but....I don't. A lot of holes. I was in a Sea Org service org for 14 years, and a lot of this doesn't really make sense to me in terms of what she is telling people to actually do.

My personal opinion is that she really hasn't come to grips with all of it.

But she will have to.

It will have been forced on her at this point.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
feettothefire 5 hours ago
The damage control is already underway as my "good roads, fair weather" son emailed me after I sent him the article thanking me in neutral tones for my concern. That means that they have gotten the word out to everybody down to the lower levels that this is either a hoax or that this is false and evil. Just the fact that he responded to my email means that he filed a KR and that this is how they want him to respond. Others with him have also started to send gifts to appease the situation again signifying how they are truly concerned about the damage this will cause. As a member of FUSS - families under scientology stress, this is pure music
FUSS - families under scientology stress

Does anyone know what this is? This is the first time I have ever heard this.
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Debbie is wrong.

If every Scientologist will stop donating
for things other then The Bridge, it would be
a very selfish and introverting thing to do.

That would mean they are unflat on the subject of Help.
And who would want that?!

Get your Basics in, people. Sheesh. :coolwink:
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Because of the Scientologists who generously donating,
these stats took place factually in a physical universe:

"Every 24 hours we help:

11,169 kids improve their academic score
68,570 learn the truth about drugs
52,860 get the facts about psychiatric abuse
49,629 learn their human rights
9,176 inmates discover values and self-respect
48,235 people find honesty and compassion
6,725 volunteers contribute to their community."


All the above are the actual facts.

Achieving The State of Clear is a wonderful thing.
Becoming OT is truly an amazing experience of amazingness.

But never forget, about 3rd and 4th Dynamics, friends. Donate!
Would it be cash, check or credit? (looking for more references).
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Because of the Scientologists who generously donating,
these stats took place factually in a physical universe:

"Every 24 hours we help:

11,169 kids improve their academic score
68,570 learn the truth about drugs
52,860 get the facts about psychiatric abuse
49,629 learn their human rights
9,176 inmates discover values and self-respect
48,235 people find honesty and compassion
6,725 volunteers contribute to their community."


All the above are the actual facts.

Achieving The State of Clear is a wonderful thing.
Becoming OT is truly an amazing experience of amazingness.

But never forget, about 3rd and 4th Dynamics, friends. Donate!
Would it be cash, check or credit? (looking for more references).

Was the above actually taken from their new sales pitch, done as an answer to the Debbie Cook letter???????????????

If so, two points:

Considering the style, it was written by DM or his personal speech writer Sherman somethingorother.

Also ... if "49,629 learn their human rights" then even at the inflated figure of 10 million members for the Cof$, everybody within the entire Cof$ could learn their human rights in less than one year's time ... approx 200 days. If we go with a 15 million member figure, the entire Cof$ could learn about their human rights in about 300 or so days, still well under one year. Bottom line ... one human right they can learn all about is their right to property ... their property IS their property and not that of the Cof$ or some redge, and they need not let themselves be hounded endlessly to donate, since that would be a clear violation of their human rights after they said "NO!" Just think ... what if redges had to heed a "NO!" answer just like your average horndog college guy has to heed a "NO!" answer from some chick ... that is, if he wants to stay out of jail?!

Pete
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Was the above actually taken from their new sales pitch, done as an answer to the Debbie Cook letter???????????????

Google "11,169 kids improve their academic score," for example. You're not going to run up against too many irrelevant hits.

I did as I thought the original post was a satire. It wasn't.

Paul
 

The Auditor

New Member
I'm a current member at the Church of Scientology.

I received the email from Debbie. It was very interesting... Much of what she discussed are things that I already wondered about myself.

When I reported it to HCO, I was immediately placed in a locked room and given an Ethics Interview.

I was told that reading her email was a "serious Ethics offense."

Now, I have been put on Ethics lines and am being investigated by OSA as a potential plant.

It's very humilaiating.... I am dissapointed in the Church's handling of this issue. It definitely seems paranoid and is doing way more damage to my trust in Management than a single email ever could.

Anyways, I just thought I'd provide an inside look at what is happening right now as a result of Debbie's email.
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
I'm a current member at the Church of Scientology.

I received the email from Debbie. It was very interesting... Much of what she discussed are things that I already wondered about myself.

When I reported it to HCO, I was immediately placed in a locked room and given an Ethics Interview.

I was told that reading her email was a "serious Ethics offense."

Now, I have been put on Ethics lines and am being investigated by OSA as a potential plant.

It's very humilaiating.... I am dissapointed in the Church's handling of this issue. It definitely seems paranoid and is doing way more damage to my trust in Management than a single email ever could.

Anyways, I just thought I'd provide an inside look at what is happening right now as a result of Debbie's email.

I'm sorry to hear all that. I hope things get better for you soon, inside or outside the Church.

ETA: By the way, I find it awful but hilarious that reading an email could be a "serious Ethics offense." Who read the email to make that determination in the first place? Is that person guilty of a "serious Ethics offense?" It's just insane.

Thank you very much for posting, too. I hope you stick around and contribute more. Even though your perspective probably differs a lot from that of some of us here, I'm sure it will be a very valuable one to hear.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
I'm a current member at the Church of Scientology.

I received the email from Debbie. It was very interesting... Much of what she discussed are things that I already wondered about myself.

When I reported it to HCO, I was immediately placed in a locked room and given an Ethics Interview.

I was told that reading her email was a "serious Ethics offense."

Now, I have been put on Ethics lines and am being investigated by OSA as a potential plant.

It's very humilaiating.... I am dissapointed in the Church's handling of this issue. It definitely seems paranoid and is doing way more damage to my trust in Management than a single email ever could.

Anyways, I just thought I'd provide an inside look at what is happening right now as a result of Debbie's email.

Hiya & :welcome: The Auditor!
So awesome that you chose to drop by here, quite unusual for any of you to have enough independant thought to go out and look around for yourselves, really, really quite awesome.
Understandably, you may be real, you could be just a troll, don't matter, that comes out in the wash over time. If real, that you would feel enough impact to look around is such a great thing, now go and look around some more.
If troll........ noice!

Doubt~ an inalienable human right.

:cheers:

Ogs
 
I'm a current member at the Church of Scientology.

I received the email from Debbie. It was very interesting... Much of what she discussed are things that I already wondered about myself.

When I reported it to HCO, I was immediately placed in a locked room and given an Ethics Interview.

I was told that reading her email was a "serious Ethics offense."

Now, I have been put on Ethics lines and am being investigated by OSA as a potential plant.

It's very humilaiating.... I am dissapointed in the Church's handling of this issue. It definitely seems paranoid and is doing way more damage to my trust in Management than a single email ever could.

Anyways, I just thought I'd provide an inside look at what is happening right now as a result of Debbie's email.


Thanks for posting the info. If you haven't experienced that sort of thing before, you are getting a close up look now. But Debbie's letter is not the basic on that track. Others have had the same treatment for decades now over other issues which were just as silly. Good luck, I hope you remain willing to observe what is there and not what others tell you is there.
 

Good twin

Floater
:welcome: Auditor. You know this is worse than reading that email, right? If you intend to complete your ethics cycle, talking with us is really a bad move.

Unless of course you take us on for your "effective blow" step. You can report that you've come to your senses after spotting how evil and entheta the internet is. After all it is all on an electronic wavelength and so was Debbie Cook's suppressive email. Then you will say that you tromped on us hard with the truth about how effective Scientology is and you offered us the crack in the open door.

Damn. I should sell this shit. How to get through your next ethics cycle and/or Sec Check.

Anyway, welcome to ESMB. You are certainly welcome here. No interrogation. You can talk about whatever you like. Just take a look at the rules. Not so much for your self, but so you know if any of us get out of line. Most of us are SPs after all.

:coolwink:
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome Auditor

Will they soon be telling auditors not to discuss "entheta" in session? How would that work? Maybe I have an MU on how Scientologists are supposed to clear the planet?

I thought the tech says to find, confront, view and duplicate the entheta. :unsure:

One thing you will find here is a chance to really demonstrate "Grade 0"

:thumbsup:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
ETA: By the way, I find it awful but hilarious that reading an email could be a "serious Ethics offense." Who read the email to make that determination in the first place? Is that person guilty of a "serious Ethics offense?" It's just insane.


:clapping::clapping::clapping: Wonderful! :clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
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