Is Scientology Satanic ?

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
There is a problem with that HCOB I see.

First of all it is written 1980. Hubdard died in 1986, read the first paragraph.
Why is that a problem? He says, "By the time you read this ..." he will have dropped the body. It appeared on the original OT VIII course in 1988, two years after LRH's death. So he wrote it in 1980, so what?
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
There is a problem with that HCOB I see.

First of all it is written 1980. Hubdard died in 1986, read the first paragraph. Second, it's not written in Hubbard's rhetoric style, it's different.

Something ain't right about it.

It doesn't matter in the end anyways, because there are no clears or OT's, just say'in.


This is when OT 8 was released:

OT VIII is known as "The Truth Revealed" and was first released to select high-ranking public Scientologists in 1988​
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
First of all it is written 1980. Hubdard died in 1986, read the first paragraph. Second, it's not written in Hubbard's rhetoric style, it's different.

Something ain't right about it.

It doesn't matter in the end anyways, because there are no clears or OT's, just say'in.
It was allegedly written in 1980, but not issued until after LRH's death. So it was either written by LRH, or it was written by DM and back-dated. I'm leaning towards the latter.

I don't think LRH cared about what happened after he died.
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I don't think LRH cared about what happened after he died.
If he believed that there was any chance he'd be back again I'm sure he cared about all the money he accumulated up until 1986.

Given how important the money seemed to him I imagine he'd of had some kind of plan to get his hands on at least some of it upon his return.

I seriously doubt that he changed his will just before dying as reported, and doubt he was in any condition to do so even had he wished to do so.

During his "Mission into Time" adventure he attempted to dig up something buried from an earlier life. So I would imagine he'd expect to come back and claim some money upon any future return as well.
 
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screamer2

Idiot Bastardson
If he believed that there was any chance he'd be back again I'm sure he cared about all the money he accumulated up until 1986.

Given how important the money seemed to him I imagine he'd of had some kind of plan to get his hands on at least some of it upon his return.

I seriously doubt that he changed his will just before dying as reported, and doubt he was in any condition to do so even had he wished to do so.

During his "Mission into Time" adventure he attempted to dig up something buried from an earlier life. So I would imagine he'd expect to come back and claim some money upon any future return as well.
"During his "Mission into Time" adventure he attempted to dig up something buried from an earlier life. So I would imagine he'd expect to come back and claim some money upon any future return."

Being the conman that he was he surely would have known that if he made it too easy to lay hands on the loot someone other than a reanimated LRH could take it. lol
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I remember a big flap at Flag, in the early 1980's, where copies of the tape had, somehow, been made and put on the bookstore list, and public had actually bought some. There was an order from uplines that ALL copies of that tape be tracked down and handed over to Pers Comm (the office of LRH's personal communicator), with the shore story being that it was a Class XII tape.

Although I vaguely remembered the title as being "Electropsychometric Surveying: Battles of the Universes.”

In any event, there's a thread about it on WhyWeProtest, started by a guy who allegedly had the tape
The tape " Elelectropsychometric Scouting, Battle of the Universes" is one of the lectures in the Hubbard College Lectures . part of the History of Man series April, 1952.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
If he believed that there was any chance he'd be back again I'm sure he cared about all the money he accumulated up until 1986.

Given how important the money seemed to him I imagine he'd of had some kind of plan to get his hands on at least some of it upon his return.

I seriously doubt that he changed his will just before dying as reported, and doubt he was in any condition to do so even had he wished to do so.

During his "Mission into Time" adventure he attempted to dig up something buried from an earlier life. So I would imagine he'd expect to come back and claim some money upon any future return as well.
Don't you imagine that the underground vaults with the gold bars and shit are hisselfs "anchor points"?
 

TomKat

Patron Meritorious
The tape " Elelectropsychometric Scouting, Battle of the Universes" is one of the lectures in the Hubbard College Lectures . part of the History of Man series April, 1952.
And in that tape he attempts, twice, to get a read that Christianity is a targ religion, and fails -- only gets a small fall when he says "it has to be"
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Don't you imagine that the underground vaults with the gold bars and shit are hisselfs "anchor points"?
I believe that the underground vaults were originally intended by him at least partially for the purpose of storing gold and other assets.

But at some point control of the CoS was wrested from him, and then even control of his personal fortune.

Maybe at the end when he told Sarge that he "failed" this is what he had in mind, the failure to secure his assets for his next adventure here. ;)

If he really was able to come back he'd probably join the Sea Org, without revealing his real identity, working his way into an INT Management position, with the intent of eventually taking back control of the billions in CoS & IAS assets. (Miscavige would probably suffer a horrible accident, falling off the top of the tallest CoS owned building)
 

Veda

Sponsor
There is a problem with that HCOB I see.

First of all it is written 1980. Hubdard died in 1986, read the first paragraph. Second, it's not written in Hubbard's rhetoric style, it's different.

Something ain't right about it.

It doesn't matter in the end anyways, because there are no clears or OT's, just say'in.
It didn't seem like Hubbard's writing style to me either and I doubted its authenticity.

Later I learned from David Mayo that it was shown to him in 1980 by Pat Broeker.

It appears to have been an edited transcription, into "HCOB" form, of a "briefing" by Hubbard.

This was pretty typical. Hubbard blurts something out into a tape recorder, then it's made presentable for release as the latest big breakthrough. (Hubbard's nutty LSD Zombies/LSD crystals Sweat Program - complete with rubber suit for sweating out those LSD crystals - was an example of this. It was later reshaped to become the much more marketable "Purification Rundown.")

Broeker was very excited about it, as it was something new from "LRH" that could be made - by David Mayo - into a new level.

Mayo had no interest in doing so, and it must have been completely out of place when it was finally added to (then Senior C/S) Ray Mithoff's "New OT 8" some years later.
 

Gib

Crusader
It didn't seem like Hubbard's writing style to me either and I doubted its authenticity.

Later I learned from David Mayo that it was shown to him in 1980 by Pat Broeker.

It appears to have been an edited transcription, into "HCOB" form, of a "briefing" by Hubbard.

This was pretty typical. Hubbard blurts something out into a tape recorder, then it's made presentable for release as the latest big breakthrough. (Hubbard's nutty LSD Zombies/LSD crystals Sweat Program - complete with rubber suit for sweating out those LSD crystals - was an example of this. It was later reshaped to become the much more marketable "Purification Rundown.")

Broeker was very excited about it, as it was something new from "LRH" that could be made - by David Mayo - into a new level.

Mayo had no interest in doing so, and it must have been completely out of place when it was finally added to (then Senior C/S) Ray Mithoff's "New OT 8" some years later.
that makes sense to me just as you point out. A lot of people think Hubbard wrote millions of words, that is just PR, Hubbard spoke into his recording machines and they where transcribed into words on a piece of paper and issued. This is another illusion by the Hubbard and DM/COS that he wrote millions of words, bullshit, he spoke millions of words which we all do, LOL.

In regards to Enthetan comment, I recall seeing a video of Sarge saying Hubbard asked him if people will like him or something like that after he died, and Sarge said Yes, and Hubbard said Why? I wish I could find it, I tried looking for it, I'm not trying to start a rumor with this part of my comment here.

This is only interview I can find, but it's not the whole interview.

 
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dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
It was allegedly written in 1980, but not issued until after LRH's death. So it was either written by LRH, or it was written by DM and back-dated. I'm leaning towards the latter.

I don't think LRH cared about what happened after he died.
Apparently there were many LRH issues which were written by others but release under EL Con's byline. Then there was in the late 70's major cutting out of his signatures or any indication of LRH's involvement as managing or controlling Scn organizations. So there is a distinct possibility of redactions and insertions by others in many of the Scn documents.
But does it really matter at this point as El Con lied so much about what HISSELF 'discovered'. It was definitely hyperbole mixed with fraudulent claims and propaganda is woven into scientology's clothing and soulless alter_megalonanical_ego_machine.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't think LRH cared about what happened after he died.
However much LRH may have been bullshitting us with scn, a belief in spirits and reincarnation is consistent with his background in the occult, so I think he would have considered his return at least a possibility.

And whether he thought he'd be back or not, it would have amused him to have his followers believe he was the Antichrist, as a sort of parting joke.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Never occurred to you the S might stand for Scientology? Sheez
Yes mate, you're right, it never occurred to me. Perhaps that's because that interpretation is so lame it would take a complete bozo to imagine it!

Incidentally, I began my previous post with 'I may have this completely wrong...' but in fact that is just typical British understatement and self deprecation since I specifically remember reading something by Hubbard where he states unequivocally that the snake represents the Serpent of Caduceus.
 
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Tanchi

Patron with Honors
Yes mate, you're right, it never occurred to me. Perhaps that's because that interpretation is so lame it would take a complete bozo to imagine it!

Incidentally, I began my previous post with 'I may have this completely wrong...' but in fact that is just typical British understatement and self deprecation since I specifically remember reading something by Hubbard where he states unequivocally that the snake represents the Serpent of Caduceus.

Makes a kind of sick sense, doesn't it? Rod of Hermes, messenger for the gods, protector of merchants and thieves.
 

Veda

Sponsor
However much LRH may have been bullshitting us with scn, a belief in spirits and reincarnation is consistent with his background in the occult, so I think he would have considered his return at least a possibility.

IN 1938, Hubbard wrote of immortality through physical means as the only way to to attain actual immortality. That a mysterious "X" energy survived did not necessarily mean that the individual and his identity and memories survived. He sold the immortality of the "full man," to his followers, but - deep down - did he really believe it?

And whether he thought he'd be back or not, it would have amused him to have his followers believe he was the Antichrist, as a sort of parting joke.

I don't think he was joking.

Hubbard wrote that he was, essentially, assuming the role of the anti-Christ, rather than being the actual anti-Christ, since while, according to Hubbard, Jesus existed, he was not the Christ. Indeed the idea was that there was no Christ, and the Christ notion was the result of an "implant."

Crowley has a similar situation. He regarded Jesus as just a man. Crowley was not a Satanist in the religious sense as he also did not recognize the divinity of Jesus, but he was a Satanist (or very much like one) in the philosophical sense.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
IN 1938, Hubbard wrote of immortality through physical means as the only way to to attain actual immortality. That a mysterious "X" energy survived did not necessarily mean that the individual and his identity and memories survived. He sold the immortality of the "full man," to his followers, but - deep down - did he really believe it?
Sounds kind of like a proto-genetic entity sorta thang.
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
IN 1938, Hubbard wrote of immortality through physical means as the only way to to attain actual immortality. That a mysterious "X" energy survived did not necessarily mean that the individual and his identity and memories survived.
Where did he do this? (I don't doubt it; just would like to know the source, no pun intended.)
 
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