Is the cult insolvent?

[Anonycat]

Are we there yet? That is the question. Last year my local org had the extortionist reg's from Los Angeles come to town regging for donations to buy solar panels for the Las Vegas org. The new Idle Morgue has about a 10 thousand dollar a month electric bill trying to cool the place. I told him I had requested a refund and that shut his ass up. The word hadn't gotten around that I had been declared. It is slowly leaking out. They still haven't told me! I slipped into the org for the IAS event last month. They had a pretty good spread of food. Lots better than the old days when it wasn't so important to lure the public in with. I ran into a few old friends and chatted a bit. They seemed oblivious to the emptiness of the org. I did not see any of the big donators of the past. I went into the auditorium for the main event. It started over a half hour late as usual. It was surprisingly empty. I took a couple of pictures of the crowd. I noticed my battery was low so I went out to my car to get a spare when I was spotted by a Sea Org member from L.A. who stopped me from going back in. He got the local HES and whispered something to her. She then told me I wasn't allowed to go back in. She said she was going to check on it with a terminal she knew and would get back with me on it in a couple of days. They didn't say anything out loud. Obviously don't want anyone to know about the exodus. They asked me to delete the pictures I took inside. I didn't mind and obliged them. Interestingly the camera didn't comply. I just looked at my SD card today and the pictures were still there! This is what the IAS event could pull in:
View attachment 5320
View attachment 5321

This appeared to me to be a lot less than would show up in years past. None of the high rollers were there. I didn't get to see if any more showed up later and didn't get to see what lies they are telling today. Too bad. I would guess at least half of the people there were staff. Maybe less. I was feeling generous that there still are staff!

As you can see there aren't many public OR staff there.

A few years ago the LV org borrowed about 7 thousand dollars from me to pay their light bill. Fortunately I got paid back. The ED was a good friend and ethical.

Along the lines of what has been said in other posts on this thread I can spread a little rumor that a friend of mine once told me that back in the '70s he was working with some of the top finance guys in the Sea Org who was ripping off some of the S.O. funds by transferring it into his own account, Saying that everybody was doing it. My friend didn't join in. This is just hearsay, but it is interesting to conjecture with.

BTW the CC Las Vegas merged with the LV org when they moved into their "Ideal Org" a few years ago. Contraction confirmed.

Anybody know what happened with ESMB the last day or so? It disappeared for me. Need a mirror site?

Fantastic photos! Thank you!

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Fantastic photos! Thank you!

I heartily agree, you can almost smell the desperation and decay of a dying abomination, and feel the sadness of the oldsters who's only retirement plan is dying without a dime to give to their families, no fun in the sun for them.
Dunno but I find it really fucking sadly depressing... thinking of the dupes, but heartening seeing it so barren. *conflicted*

 

[Anonycat]

I heartily agree, you can almost smell the desperation and decay of a dying abomination, and feel the sadness of the oldsters who's only retirement plan is dying without a dime to give to their families, no fun in the sun for them.
Dunno but I find it really fucking sadly depressing... thinking of the dupes, but heartening seeing it so barren. *conflicted*

I know what you mean, Ogs, but every month, and every year there are more leaving. Everyone has their point of WTF, and I think the Idle Org program may be just the thing for many. There is no mystery in an empty building with sky-high bills. It defies common sense, and since everyone has (hopefully) a roof over their heads and bills of their own to pay, looking upon such an enormous burden one may say to themselves: this Org can't support its self ... and there is no Hubbard woo-woo that can make that plain fact change. I'm out of here, their plan is foolish and will never work.

If they are staff and broke, they are already struggling at home to make ends meet, then having 10x of the same crap of trying to sell a service no one wants at work, is just too horrible of a way to spend ones life. It's not "workable".

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Yes Acat, exactly what I was getting at/feeling. I guess a lot of it is the 'panic-from-the-top', the dwindeling flow of money 'up-lines', and the pressure they must endure to keep it up. Pretty brutal con really, but.... we know that already eh.

*sigh*

 

[Anonycat]

Yes Acat, exactly what I was getting at/feeling. I guess a lot of it is the 'panic-from-the-top', the dwindeling flow of money 'up-lines', and the pressure they must endure to keep it up. Pretty brutal con really, but.... we know that already eh.

*sigh*

That can be a good sigh - there is no way to go but down, for the cult. The goal of opening and running Orgs is now in a death-lock.

1) Clients give until they have no more.

2) They are asked daily via e-mail, junk snail mail, and in-person to give more & more. This builds poor relations.

3) The Idle Org opens, after millions more in some unforeseen budget issues.

4) There is too little income for the Idle Org, and it "relocates" to a tiny office space somewhere.

I predict this will be a big factor of the closing cycle they are in. That leads me to my same old prediction (until I come up with a better one) that this leads to a real estate sale or auction, and a ton of cash/gold being absorbed by whomever has the accounts.

I really can't accept that they'll throw a billion dollars of good money into the Zombie Org project. That just won't happen. As far as I can see, my logic is sound. Corrections, anyone?

 

[Smilla]

Even the most committed and blinkered can't go through something like this many times without realising that it's completely nuts.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeihphUeXVs[/video]


[video=youtube;vWexpV7bR2A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWexpV7bR2A[/video]

 

[Anonycat]

Yes, Ron said that you can get more money out of someone in a downward spiral. So don't be afraid to keep 'regging' the downtrodden.

BTW, that ^^ tribal money ritual is disgusting.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

That can be a good sigh - there is no way to go but down, for the cult. The goal of opening and running Orgs is now in a death-lock.

1) Clients give until they have no more.

2) They are asked daily via e-mail, junk snail mail, and in-person to give more & more. This builds poor relations.

3) The Idle Org opens, after millions more in some unforeseen budget issues.

4) There is too little income for the Idle Org, and it "relocates" to a tiny office space somewhere.

I predict this will be a big factor of the closing cycle they are in. That leads me to my same old prediction (until I come up with a better one) that this leads to a real estate sale or auction, and a ton of cash/gold being absorbed by whomever has the accounts.

I really can't accept that they'll throw a billion dollars of good money into the Zombie Org project. That just won't happen. As far as I can see, my logic is sound. Corrections, anyone?

The only money they throw anywhere is what they get from their sheeples per-project, there is nothing coming 'down-lines for anything really, it is not how the con works, they have to keep feeding the monster all the time with fresh money. Any 'billion' thrown anywhere is not from existing funds but what can be 'donated' etc.. ron may have been a fucking coniving con-artist, but he knew how to hold onto what he gained imho.

 

[Anonycat]

The only money they throw anywhere is what they get from their sheeples per-project, there is nothing coming 'down-lines for anything really, it is not how the con works, they have to keep feeding the monster all the time with fresh money. Any 'billion' thrown anywhere is not from existing funds but what can be 'donated' etc.. ron may have been a fucking coniving con-artist, but he knew how to hold onto what he gained imho.

I agree, they won't change things and actually be helpful because they can. Give money or get out of the way. I think more will be getting out of the way. Then real estate sale and accounts get transferred to again obfuscate its whereabouts and owner.

 

[NoName]

I( cannot speak to the org reserves but I can say that the IAS money is well over a billion and two billion could be a possibility.

By 1989 there was over $150 million in IAS reserves - fact.

By 1995 according to info I trust (but did not directly see) IAS Reserves were over 250 million.

80% by policy is in gold. in 1995 the price of gold was $380 per ounce price yesterday $1780

That alone would make IAS reserves worth $980 million dollars - and that does not include the money regged since 1995.

So, while I dont have some sort of balance sheet I can see with pretty good certainty that the IAS has well over a billion dollars.

Thanks for the reference, Mick. I've wondered how they got up to a Billion, but I've heard that number a lot from sources I consider reliable. I had no idea that Ella Rich had a policy on investing in gold. That explains quite a bit.

 

[Gib]

Actually not - in 1989 saw the balances.

In 1995 the figure I got was from someone who had had access to the balances. Thats why I picked those two figures.

The reference about gold? From Hubbard's policies/advices regarding how reserves were to be invested.

It is why, for example, in the book Barefaced Messiah there is a part where someone is telling about the mission they did to some bank to measure the stacked bills etc.




well you would not have seen IAS reserves statements in the early eighties unless you were one of the few people who even knew where the money was from 1985 to 1991.



No, legal payments do not come out of IAS money and no IAS does not fund OSA - Flag funds OSA.

As for "references" With respect - if you do not know the refs on reserves what are you agruing about?

Well, Mat Pesch Treas Sec FSO 1995-2002 states as well OSA funded by FSO as Tony just posted:

http://tonyortega.org/2012/11/28/mo...-them-drain-20-million-in-reserves/#more-1404

 

[Anonycat]

Thanks for the reference, Mick. I've wondered how they got up to a Billion, but I've heard that number a lot from sources I consider reliable. I had no idea that Ella Rich had a policy on investing in gold. That explains quite a bit.

Yes, Mick, I've been hoping for a number reckoning like yours! Debbie was hitting a serious DM nerve when she said there was a billion dollars hidden away.

 

[NoName]

What joyous news:

Based on what Pesch told us, as well as what we’re hearing from other former executives we’ve talked to, it may turn out that Marty Rathbun’s estimate — that Scientology spent up to $30 million to fight the McPherson case — is actually substantially less than what was actually spent.

I believe it. I also believe that there are many more fraud and wrongful death settlements that the cult has paid out since then to keep claims out of the public eye. Really, I absolutely believe that the cult's treatment of parishioners combined with its scorched earth litigation tactic = insolvent cult.

As little good as I can say about Ella Rich, one thing that he understood was the importance of not regging people into ruin. HASI wasn't ever tens or hundreds of thousands, and lack of ability to pay for HASI never kept people from their Bridge. Also, while the old man kept the prices of services steadily climbing, it wasn't anywhere near today's rates and I don't recall stories about people having to redo lower Bridge services.

Slappy's greed as much at fault as his incompetence. I would go so far as to say that if Lisa wasn't crush regged Slappy McSavage style, this situation might have never come about. Same with Rex Fowler.

 

[Enthetan]

What joyous news:



I believe it. I also believe that there are many more fraud and wrongful death settlements that the cult has paid out since then to keep claims out of the public eye. Really, I absolutely believe that the cult's treatment of parishioners combined with its scorched earth litigation tactic = insolvent cult.

As little good as I can say about Ella Rich, one thing that he understood was the importance of not regging people into ruin. HASI wasn't ever tens or hundreds of thousands, and lack of ability to pay for HASI never kept people from their Bridge. Also, while the old man kept the prices of services steadily climbing, it wasn't anywhere near today's rates and I don't recall stories about people having to redo lower Bridge services.

Slappy's greed as much at fault as his incompetence. I would go so far as to say that if Lisa wasn't crush regged Slappy McSavage style, this situation might have never come about. Same with Rex Fowler.

Yep, they got too greedy. In the past, one could be a public Scientologist and actually be able to afford a life outside Scn. No more. The crush regging has gotten steadily more intense. The insanity regarding the Basics was the last straw for me (though I was disenchanted and keeping a low profile for ten years prior to that point)

 

[RolandRB]

Yep, they got too greedy. In the past, one could be a public Scientologist and actually be able to afford a life outside Scn. No more. The crush regging has gotten steadily more intense. The insanity regarding the Basics was the last straw for me (though I was disenchanted and keeping a low profile for ten years prior to that point)

I think there exists a Scientology elite who do not get crushed reg but instead do rather well out of the others in Scientology. I am thinking of the Gaiman's and there must be many others. Like the people who really put up the money for the Ideal Orgs and how the scieno public who were crushed regged for them actually bought the Ideal Org off a scieno, at a large profit to that scieno, and are now basically paying that rich scieno back.

 

[XenusChild]

Yep, they got too greedy. In the past, one could be a public Scientologist and actually be able to afford a life outside Scn. No more. The crush regging has gotten steadily more intense. The insanity regarding the Basics was the last straw for me (though I was disenchanted and keeping a low profile for ten years prior to that point)

As someone that got out very recently, I can attest to this. The regging is really what did it for me. Even if you say you can't afford something, they still won't stop. When I said I couldn't afford the full basics package, and that i'd prefer to just get the books and lectures individually for now (even though I recognized it would cost more), I was told that I had to get a complete package of something (the books or the lectures), and that I had to leave with one or the other. Ended up getting the books, on credit card. They said while getting them one by one is ok, just having all of them (even if you don't read/listen to them) is better. Then, I wanted to put money towards Purif and TRs & Objectives, since I was interested in going up the Bridge. Instead, I was repeatedly told that I had to do the Basics, and that I should at least have the full package of Basics and courses before starting the Bridge. When I gave money for "services", I look at the receipt, and it's not towards the Purif/TRs as I wanted, but to the Basics courses. It seemed like, despite my interest in going up the Bridge in the way that worked best for me (i.e. pay for the next steps on the Bridge, and do the Basics one at a time, at least for now), they wanted to get as much money out of me as possible, as soon as possible.

 

[Anonycat]

As someone that got out very recently, I can attest to this. The regging is really what did it for me. Even if you say you can't afford something, they still won't stop. When I said I couldn't afford the full basics package, and that i'd prefer to just get the books and lectures individually for now (even though I recognized it would cost more), I was told that I had to get a complete package of something (the books or the lectures), and that I had to leave with one or the other. Ended up getting the books, on credit card. They said while getting them one by one is ok, just having all of them (even if you don't read/listen to them) is better. Then, I wanted to put money towards Purif and TRs & Objectives, since I was interested in going up the Bridge. Instead, I was repeatedly told that I had to do the Basics, and that I should at least have the full package of Basics and courses before starting the Bridge. When I gave money for "services", I look at the receipt, and it's not towards the Purif/TRs as I wanted, but to the Basics courses. It seemed like, despite my interest in going up the Bridge in the way that worked best for me (i.e. pay for the next steps on the Bridge, and do the Basics one at a time, at least for now), they wanted to get as much money out of me as possible, as soon as possible.

I got calls ... I haven't been in since the mid-70's, but they were trying to sell me the Basics. My point being, they have NO discretion, and act like everyone who is able to answer a phone should buy it. It's like zombies and the craving for brains, they only sell, and money is the flesh they need to survive. I don't blame them for asking me, they are unable to think. They are sales zombies for the cult.

Fly, monkeys, fly!


You need to buy the Basics!

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

As someone that got out very recently, I can attest to this. The regging is really what did it for me. Even if you say you can't afford something, they still won't stop. When I said I couldn't afford the full basics package, and that i'd prefer to just get the books and lectures individually for now (even though I recognized it would cost more), I was told that I had to get a complete package of something (the books or the lectures), and that I had to leave with one or the other. Ended up getting the books, on credit card. They said while getting them one by one is ok, just having all of them (even if you don't read/listen to them) is better. Then, I wanted to put money towards Purif and TRs & Objectives, since I was interested in going up the Bridge. Instead, I was repeatedly told that I had to do the Basics, and that I should at least have the full package of Basics and courses before starting the Bridge. When I gave money for "services", I look at the receipt, and it's not towards the Purif/TRs as I wanted, but to the Basics courses. It seemed like, despite my interest in going up the Bridge in the way that worked best for me (i.e. pay for the next steps on the Bridge, and do the Basics one at a time, at least for now), they wanted to get as much money out of me as possible, as soon as possible.

Whether yer a boy or girl thingy, I feel for you and gives ya a vertual hug.


Y'all take good care of yourself during your decompressions, ya hear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3TeskgpWvE

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Well, Mat Pesch Treas Sec FSO 1995-2002 states as well OSA funded by FSO as Tony just posted:

http://tonyortega.org/2012/11/28/mo...-them-drain-20-million-in-reserves/#more-1404

Wow, my eyes keep flashing INUREMENT inurement as I read Tony's article.

I wonder how many EX Sea Org staff from FSO could testify as to how they were handled while getting their pay, to "[STRIKE]in[/STRIKE]voluntarily give to David Miscavige's [STRIKE]present[/STRIKE] inurement.

And today I learned something I didn't know. That the IRS permits the cult to claim tax exemption so it can pay it's [STRIKE]secret agents[/STRIKE]staff to infiltrate other organizations and also pay lawyers to hobnob with and influence judges
I guess it doesn't really matter as this organization is all based on fiction, [STRIKE]religious fraud[/STRIKE]

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Yep, they got too greedy. In the past, one could be a public Scientologist and actually be able to afford a life outside Scn. No more. The crush regging has gotten steadily more intense. The insanity regarding the Basics was the last straw for me (though I was disenchanted and keeping a low profile for ten years prior to that point)

I understand Enthetan.

I can assure you "crush regging" , including enticement and advice to commit pecuniary fraud existed in 1974.