Is the cult insolvent?

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

As someone that got out very recently, I can attest to this. The regging is really what did it for me. Even if you say you can't afford something, they still won't stop. When I said I couldn't afford the full basics package, and that i'd prefer to just get the books and lectures individually for now (even though I recognized it would cost more), I was told that I had to get a complete package of something (the books or the lectures), and that I had to leave with one or the other. Ended up getting the books, on credit card. They said while getting them one by one is ok, just having all of them (even if you don't read/listen to them) is better. Then, I wanted to put money towards Purif and TRs & Objectives, since I was interested in going up the Bridge. Instead, I was repeatedly told that I had to do the Basics, and that I should at least have the full package of Basics and courses before starting the Bridge. When I gave money for "services", I look at the receipt, and it's not towards the Purif/TRs as I wanted, but to the Basics courses. It seemed like, despite my interest in going up the Bridge in the way that worked best for me (i.e. pay for the next steps on the Bridge, and do the Basics one at a time, at least for now), they wanted to get as much money out of me as possible, as soon as possible.

Yep! them is the marching orders, get the basic sets sold and get the $$$$ stats up. Of course in the moment the orgs win, the staff get a commission (to supplement their high, 0-$100? a week voluntary [STRIKE]involuntary servitude or get a freeloaders debt attached to your GoldenRod SP declare[/STRIKE] pay. Except you the customer lose the control of how you want to manage your life.
So glad you stopped letting them control your life.

 

[Thrak]

As someone that got out very recently, I can attest to this. The regging is really what did it for me. Even if you say you can't afford something, they still won't stop. When I said I couldn't afford the full basics package, and that i'd prefer to just get the books and lectures individually for now (even though I recognized it would cost more), I was told that I had to get a complete package of something (the books or the lectures), and that I had to leave with one or the other. Ended up getting the books, on credit card. They said while getting them one by one is ok, just having all of them (even if you don't read/listen to them) is better. Then, I wanted to put money towards Purif and TRs & Objectives, since I was interested in going up the Bridge. Instead, I was repeatedly told that I had to do the Basics, and that I should at least have the full package of Basics and courses before starting the Bridge. When I gave money for "services", I look at the receipt, and it's not towards the Purif/TRs as I wanted, but to the Basics courses. It seemed like, despite my interest in going up the Bridge in the way that worked best for me (i.e. pay for the next steps on the Bridge, and do the Basics one at a time, at least for now), they wanted to get as much money out of me as possible, as soon as possible.

Yeah that's the thing. I really have no idea how much money they have but they ARE acting desperate. Why?

Of course I learned a long time ago that you can't expect the acts of lunatics to make sense but you have to wonder what's going on in that little cultic universe which is causing them to turn up the heat so high. I mean if they have a billion dollars what's the reason for panic? Panic does make sense if they are running out of cash but once again you can't assume logic here. These people are whacked.

 

[XenusChild]

Here's something funny I just remembered:

One time the reg told me that they hate taking money from people, that that's the worst part of the job.

Another time, I called since I was going to give a "flow" over the phone, and I asked if they were ready to take my card number. Response: "I am ALWAYS ready, no matter when, to take down a card number!".

 

[RolandRB]

Yeah that's the thing. I really have no idea how much money they have but they ARE acting desperate. Why?

Of course I learned a long time ago that you can't expect the acts of lunatics to make sense but you have to wonder what's going on in that little cultic universe which is causing them to turn up the heat so high. I mean if they have a billion dollars what's the reason for panic? Panic does make sense if they are running out of cash but once again you can't assume logic here. These people are whacked.

They might have several billion dollars stashed away by the IAS in the form of gold bars in Caraçao but this is not going to be used when there are scn publics out there with money to borrow. All that IAS money effectively belongs to David Miscavige and is there to spend as he sees fit.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

I understand Enthetan.

I can assure you "crush regging" , including enticement and advice to commit pecuniary fraud existed in 1974.

I am willing to bet 45 cakes it probably started wayyyyy back to hubard's first big rip, Alan Parson's wife, his money, boat, and company.
Once realizing he could get away it, the con in his mind took greater form. The forms got larger, and more complicated, then burst into the pile of steaming crap known as Dianetics, which got shot down by everyone, boistering (bolstering?) any inner hate the sick fuck had already. Po, sik, fuk.
Hey, a venture gained is a venture earned eh

 

[Thrak]

Here's something funny I just remembered:

One time the reg told me that they hate taking money from people, that that's the worst part of the job.

Another time, I called since I was going to give a "flow" over the phone, and I asked if they were ready to take my card number. Response: "I am ALWAYS ready, no matter when, to take down a card number!".

And when they say always they mean ALWAYS. What a bunch a pathetic SOBs. Let's face it. A reg is one seriously degraded being. They take on the ethics of a heroin addict. They think they're saving the world but they're really just a corner junkie. Sad, sad, sad.

Sorry if there are former reges here but the people who actively do this make me want to puke.

 

[Gib]

Yep! them is the marching orders, get the basic sets sold and get the $$$$ stats up. Of course in the moment the orgs win, the staff get a commission (to supplement their high, 0-$100? a week voluntary [STRIKE]involuntary servitude or get a freeloaders debt attached to your GoldenRod SP declare[/STRIKE] pay. Except you the customer lose the control of how you want to manage your life.
So glad you stopped letting them control your life.

And that is how it is done. Control. And they even teach you thru the TR's & Objections course how to control others and your own life (so you think), but all the while they are controlling you, as a new person programed up the bridge. And when one goes up the bridge, controlled and programmed all the way, a person thinks they are gaining freedom. When if fact, they were controlled all along the way. And if they waver a bit from this controlled bridge to freedom, why they might be PTS or are PTS.

Question, how could one be PTS if the gains at each level of the bridge are lasting and forever? How could somebody take them away?

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I am willing to bet 45 cakes it probably started wayyyyy back to hubard's first big rip, Alan Parson's wife, his money, boat, and company.
Once realizing he could get away it, the con in his mind took greater form. The forms got larger, and more complicated, then burst into the pile of steaming crap known as Dianetics, which got shot down by everyone, boistering (bolstering?) any inner hate the sick fuck had already. Po, sik, fuk.
Hey, a venture gained is a venture earned eh

Yah probably going to win those 45 cakes, cause I am pretty sure Ron's bounced check from the 40's, I think it was, was in indication of something to come. A bigger con.

 

[Anonycat]

They might have several billion dollars stashed away by the IAS in the form of gold bars in Caraçao but this is not going to be used when there are scn publics out there with money to borrow. All that IAS money effectively belongs to David Miscavige and is there to spend as he sees fit.

I feel that they have money, but giving to Orgs or Missions will never happen, ever. A pyramid scheme only flows cash to the top. So that's all there is to it, as far as I can see.

And, I agree with you.

When it's Game Over, the winner is going to have incredible wealth. Imagine the luxury resort chain you could start with all that real estate. With a portfolio like that, I'm sure you could borrow a half billion just to get them fitted.

I only say that because they have been stoking my suspicions too long, as they acquired historic hotels to be converted and opened - but never were.

If anything, the Master(s) of this Game would actually benefit from the demise of the cult structure.

This could be expedited by many things.

Bad press.

Acting like a crazy cult, and losing public acceptance - OSA's job to uphold.

Disassemble your executive branch. This also gives the Master more control.

Make it insanely expensive, and keep raising prices without end.

If the ones controlling the cult wanted to kill it for profit, they could. Now you can send this to Rich's thread.

 

[NoName]

Yeah that's the thing. I really have no idea how much money they have but they ARE acting desperate. Why?

Of course I learned a long time ago that you can't expect the acts of lunatics to make sense but you have to wonder what's going on in that little cultic universe which is causing them to turn up the heat so high. I mean if they have a billion dollars what's the reason for panic? Panic does make sense if they are running out of cash but once again you can't assume logic here. These people are whacked.

Well yeah, crazy people do crazy shit. But the thing I keep coming back to is that there are foreclosures, tax liens, blighted property citations, and empty buildings being trashed and stripped of copper wire and plumbing.

Crazy doesn't mean stupid, and letting this stuff happen is just stupid. I keep coming back to that whenever the question of the cult's financial state is raised. I have to think that they are completely broke as far as day to day operations. Whatever left has to be Davey's Bulgravian Boogey fund.

 

[NoName]

I understand Enthetan.

I can assure you "crush regging" , including enticement and advice to commit pecuniary fraud existed in 1974.

I didn't mean to imply that things were rosy under LRH - just what Enthetan was saying. That people could still keep a roof over their heads and feed themselves while being public Scientologists was my only point.

If the reincarnation part of the tech is real, I hope that LRH keeps getting reincarnated as a bird or mouse in close proximity to that feral cat colony I feed.

 

[Thrak]

Well yeah, crazy people do crazy shit. But the thing I keep coming back to is that there are foreclosures, tax liens, blighted property citations, and empty buildings being trashed and stripped of copper wire and plumbing.

Crazy doesn't mean stupid, and letting this stuff happen is just stupid. I keep coming back to that whenever the question of the cult's financial state is raised. I have to think that they are completely broke as far as day to day operations. Whatever left has to be Davey's Bulgravian Boogey fund.

After all of the discussion here I have to say that I really have no idea on how much money they have and any theory is entirely speculation unless someone has some recent, authentic, meaningful docs.

But as far as the Bulgravian Boogey, I have to wonder about that too. It seems that DM without the CofS is like a turtle without it's shell. And this is speculation too but I have to wonder if he would ever feel safe enough to leave the protections of his currently or formerly Billion Dollar Cult. For DM I think that would be like moving to Mars. It's not like he has experience in the real world.

Just a theory but I really have to wonder if he could actually leave by his own will.

 

[NoName]

Just a theory but I really have to wonder if he could actually leave by his own will.

I don't even know if he believes in the Tech? He tossed the cans after OTV. So is the cult an ego trip for him, or does he really believe it? ElWrong was just making shit up when he wrote the OT levels, but he was screaming at the space cooties with his dying breaths. I have no idea what to even think about that.

 

[Anonycat]

I don't even know if he believes in the Tech? He tossed the cans after OTV. So is the cult an ego trip for him, or does he really believe it? ElWrong was just making shit up when he wrote the OT levels, but he was screaming at the space cooties with his dying breaths. I have no idea what to even think about that.

I don't know about DM either, but there sure is a ton of MEST work done by hand, not OT powers. Right, nothing has ever been done with OT powers. He might really go for it, but he sure presents like a lying used car salesman. Anyway, good job for a kid with no education.

 

[NoName]

I don't know about DM either, but there sure is a ton of MEST work done by hand, not OT powers. Right, nothing has ever been done with OT powers. He might really go for it, but he sure presents like a lying used car salesman. Anyway, good job for a kid with no education.

Well, OT powers never knocked a hat off from across the room, but they've sure raised a few middle fingers in their day.

 

[Sindy]

As someone that got out very recently, I can attest to this. The regging is really what did it for me. Even if you say you can't afford something, they still won't stop. When I said I couldn't afford the full basics package, and that i'd prefer to just get the books and lectures individually for now (even though I recognized it would cost more), I was told that I had to get a complete package of something (the books or the lectures), and that I had to leave with one or the other. Ended up getting the books, on credit card. They said while getting them one by one is ok, just having all of them (even if you don't read/listen to them) is better. Then, I wanted to put money towards Purif and TRs & Objectives, since I was interested in going up the Bridge. Instead, I was repeatedly told that I had to do the Basics, and that I should at least have the full package of Basics and courses before starting the Bridge. When I gave money for "services", I look at the receipt, and it's not towards the Purif/TRs as I wanted, but to the Basics courses. It seemed like, despite my interest in going up the Bridge in the way that worked best for me (i.e. pay for the next steps on the Bridge, and do the Basics one at a time, at least for now), they wanted to get as much money out of me as possible, as soon as possible.

Yes, and instead what these complete idiots got was an ex-member bringin' them down on ESMB but, will that stop them? No.

Ya know, this INSANE greedy environment is all around every single Scientologist who dares to stay connected up to an org -- every single one. So, what is wrong with these people who keep takin' it day after day, month after month?

Not only do they keep takin' it, they turn around and reg their friends and family members. I no longer have once ounce of empathy or sympathy for those still in...NONE.

I've had enough of the justifications of what these people are doing. They KNOW.

I don't know how they sleep at night.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

After all of the discussion here I have to say that I really have no idea on how much money they have and any theory is entirely speculation unless someone has some recent, authentic, meaningful docs.

But as far as the Bulgravian Boogey, I have to wonder about that too. It seems that DM without the CofS is like a turtle without it's shell. And this is speculation too but I have to wonder if he would ever feel safe enough to leave the protections of his currently or formerly Billion Dollar Cult. For DM I think that would be like moving to Mars. It's not like he has experience in the real world.

Just a theory but I really have to wonder if he could actually leave by his own will.

His personal wealth is estimated at around 50 milion circa 2004 (?), does anyone really think the bugger is in there for anything butt more?
Serious criminals ~ they need serious excuses...

Miscavige could walk away any time and be quite comphy. Problem is, as the world gets increasingly smaller, his comphort zone decreases. I hope everyone sues his sorry diminutive ass.

"The cult made me do it!" It ain't flying for any of them.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I didn't mean to imply that things were rosy under LRH - just what Enthetan was saying. That people could still keep a roof over their heads and feed themselves while being public Scientologists was my only point.

If the reincarnation part of the tech is real, I hope that LRH keeps getting reincarnated as a bird or mouse in close proximity to that feral cat colony I feed.

Yes, I suppose that the more "command intention" through the influx of the once expanding Sea Org, flowed down into the orgs the worse the regging became.
And please don't poison your ferals.

 

[NoName]

Yes, and instead what these complete idiots got was an ex-member bringin' them down on ESMB but, will that stop them? No.

Ya know, this INSANE greedy environment is all around every single Scientologist who dares to stay connected up to an org -- every single one. So, what is wrong with these people who keep takin' it day after day, month after month?

Not only do they keep takin' it, they turn around and reg their friends and family members. I no longer have once ounce of empathy or sympathy for those still in...NONE.

I've had enough of the justifications of what these people are doing. They KNOW.

I don't know how they sleep at night.

I know one person who never borrowed a dime from anyone but lent freely and gave freely to the cult in pursuit of the dream of OT powers that don't exist. That person has my pity. And once I get firm indication that the person is done with the cult, God help them.

 

[Thrak]

I don't even know if he believes in the Tech? He tossed the cans after OTV. So is the cult an ego trip for him, or does he really believe it? ElWrong was just making shit up when he wrote the OT levels, but he was screaming at the space cooties with his dying breaths. I have no idea what to even think about that.

Well yeah. In no way do I regard dm as a scientologist. scientology for him is a tool to achieve power and money. But that said, it's still the only world he knows and the only world he has any control over. He could maybe live like an ex-nazi in Brazil or somewhere but I have to wonder if he could ever actually make that step. There are no guarantees that that would work. I guess time will tell but the world probably seems pretty dangerous when you've fucked as many people as he has.