Is the Scientology real estate scam like the Mafia becoming legal?

[Reasonable]

The mafia starts out doing crime to make money, then selling drugs, then they open casinos in Las Vegas and now they have a legal business. As they get more money they can , if they wanted, make more and more legal businesses because they have the capital.

I think that is what Scientology is going to do. They start out with a scam, get lots of money invest that money in real estate and who knows what else. eventually when no one wants scientology anymore they now own real estate and coffee shops or whatever. As long as they can get free labor they will and free donations they will but if not they won't go away, they will just be a business. They still can afford to hire and pay people and make money if they had to.

It really only has to support one person DM.

My question is does Miscavage know he is doing this or does he really think he is saving the world?

How many people are in on this scam? Laughing while people donate for a building that will never be built?

Do they sit around blatantly laughing at us while coming up with more ways of scamming us or do they talk about "planetary Clearing" and "Super Power" as a reality?

How many people besides DM are living in the lap of luxury on the inner circle of the scam?

 

[Good twin]

All the right questions. I really hope someday we will have all the answers.

 

[TG1]

I have NEVER understood the Idol Morgues real estate schemes. All they seem to do is lose money.

On the other hand, if some sucker hands you, free and clear, the title to a paid-for, renovated building, I don't think it much matters how bad a deal the sucker made on the purchase price or renovation expenses.

Still -- I wish someone would explain it clearly in a single post how it all works.

Pretty please with dark chocolate chips on top?

TG1

 

[Good twin]

I have NEVER understood the Idol Morgues real estate schemes. All they seem to do is lose money.

On the other hand, if some sucker hands you, free and clear, the title to a paid-for, renovated building, I don't think it much matters how bad a deal the sucker made on the purchase price or renovation expenses.

Still -- I wish someone would explain it clearly in a single post how it all works.

Pretty please with dark chocolate chips on top?

TG1

Okay. Here's the short version. But it's still hard to believe.
The Org is ordered by Int Management to upgrade to an Ideal Org.
The Org bleeds the public dry to purchase the building.
The public gives the money.
The Org gets the building purchased and the title is handed over to management.
The Org continues to feed off the public and sends tithes for the services the public pay for.
The Org also pays rent on the property that the public paid for to management.

EVERYONE WINS!!

 

[omnom]

Except "the mafia" isn't real big in Vegas any more. It's run by shady junk bond investors and large Disney-like corporations.

The closest that most people get to the Italian families is by buying fake exported olive oil, which is the vast majority of Spanish, Portuguese, Greek and Italian olive oils you'll find on shelves in the US.

 

[still here]

I have NEVER understood the Idol Morgues real estate schemes. All they seem to do is lose money.

On the other hand, if some sucker hands you, free and clear, the title to a paid-for, renovated building, I don't think it much matters how bad a deal the sucker made on the purchase price or renovation expenses.

Still -- I wish someone would explain it clearly in a single post how it all works.

Pretty please with dark chocolate chips on top?

TG1

I think it makes sense in Lrons and DMs weird and twisted greed vision....

As already stated, the public are made to donate....the building is bought/renovated and is now a financial asset.. in times of recession, or because historically "bricks and Mortar" were thought to be the safest investments long term.

Even better if you can then charge the hapless occupants rent.

The "old" orgs, if no longer needed, can be liquidated...(lots more cash in the coffers) - the public have been fed the PR of expansion and success...(as can the staff) and should the need arise, a crash, a huge legal issue....the need to escape..these upgraded buildings can be sold.

Not a bad plan for limited, power crazy tyrants, ...and if the cost is zero, then the result will always be a profit.

Everything about scientology management decisions/plans/projects is about money. It was LRons obsession and he has of course passed it on.

Still

 

[still here]

My question is does Miscavage know he is doing this or does he really think he is saving the world?

How many people are in on this scam? Laughing while people donate for a building that will never be built?

Do they sit around blatantly laughing at us while coming up with more ways of scamming us or do they talk about "planetary Clearing" and "Super Power" as a reality?

How many people besides DM are living in the lap of luxury on the inner circle of the scam?

I don't know how DM handles or justifies his life, or his head...I suspect that it is a bit of both. He must try to convince himself he is doing something good, (unless he is just totally a tyrannical psychopath..which could be true..) He must be aware of his interest and work in planning for money, and more of it. Quite how he sleeps is anyones guess.

I suspect no-one else really, within the SO is sitting (or sitting comfortably in the lap of luxury..if they are they must be watching their backs and counting the minutes..) except DM, but you have to also remember that neither do they really want to be. Anyone still close to or working for this man, or this organisation, must have thoroughly convinced themselves that all this is for a much higher purpose...and for their eternal salvation..nothing else would work.

This is why it is such a good example of total manipulation and control.
Eventually anyone with a still functioning mind gets out. Even then for these die hards it must be a very, very hard thing to face. (we have seen evidence of that)

Very sad.
Still

 

[TG1]

Are Scientologists the stupidest financial "investors" in the world? The RE scheme makes NO sense whatsoever.

It's extortion on steroids.

Oh well, not my problem.

 

[Lulu Belle]

My question is does Miscavage know he is doing this or does he really think he is saving the world?

I go with Door Number One.

 

[Gib]

All the right questions. I really hope someday we will have all the answers.

According to Mike Rinder in response to John P comment:

"John P — I have said since day one that the Ideal Org strategy has nothing to do with making money. It has something to do with SPENDING money as Miscavige is constantly in danger of IRS scrutiny over accumulating TOO MUCH cash. Buying buildings for his churches is considered a valid exempt purpose to spend the money on. But that is only a side benefit. The ONLY reason for the Ideal Orgs is to have something to SHOW the flock that “proves” he is lording over an expanding empire that is truly saving the world. To maintain his position of power and authority (which is what is important to him) he must convince the flock that he really is the chosen one. And the proof of that is the enormous expansion he has created and the evidence is in opening “new churches” to “cope with the expansion demands” everywhere, q.e.d. the church is achieving its goal of planetary clearing and Miscavige must be supported."

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-in-the-bay-area-boom-or-bust/

 

[lkwdblds]

I don't know how DM handles or justifies his life, or his head...I suspect that it is a bit of both. He must try to convince himself he is doing something good, (unless he is just totally a tyrannical psychopath..which could be true..) He must be aware of his interest and work in planning for money, and more of it. Quite how he sleeps is anyones guess.

I suspect no-one else really, within the SO is sitting (or sitting comfortably in the lap of luxury..if they are they must be watching their backs and counting the minutes..) except DM, but you have to also remember that neither do they really want to be. Anyone still close to or working for this man, or this organisation, must have thoroughly convinced themselves that all this is for a much higher purpose...and for their eternal salvation..nothing else would work.

This is why it is such a good example of total manipulation and control.
Eventually anyone with a still functioning mind gets out. Even then for these die hards it must be a very, very hard thing to face. (we have seen evidence of that)

Very sad.
Still

I believe that Norman Starkey, as head of Author Services, gets royalties on all book sales. Of course DM gets royalties as well and he is Starkey's boss and is the one who sets the size of the royalties for both of them. Aside from DM and Starkey, probably no other people in C of S make any significant money. It used to be that FSM's, those who select others to do services, earned a 10% commission for auditing selections and 15% for training. If the FSM is a small time person, their FSM commissions usually are credited toward their own 'Bridge" services and they don't receive much pay in cash. If a person or group is working full time as an FSM, it used to be possible for them to earn an annual figure well into the 6 figure range. My guess is that this is still the case.

Another guess is that DM started out believing in Scientology and believing that it would expand rapidly and lead to a better civilization. with himself cashing in both in terms of money and power. Over the decades he repeatedly ran into road blocks. Despite eval after eval and a series of clever fixes, nothing really worked. Unable to blame the failures on the tech or himself, he began to blame it all on C of S management and the parishioners. Further, he felt that he was being forced to do everything himself and that his execs, staff and parishioners were not carrying their fair share of the load.

There probably came a day when he said, "To hell with these goals of expansion!! It's too much for one person to accomplish and my execs, staffs and public are not only not doing their shares but are incapable of doing their shares. What is worse is that what they do actually makes my job harder, not easier. Using this type of logic, he probably arrived at the conclusion that this state of affairs justified his milking his Organization and his public for every dime he could squeeze out of them. Of course, in order to pull this off, he would have to pretend that tremendous expansion was occurring even in the midst of frightening shrinkage. Also, of course, his PR image would have to remain positive and confident.

Moving away from Training and Auditing services into real estate was just a business move to enable DM to eliminate many of the negatives which he was encountering in expanding C of S. One such negative was a large number of requests for refunds. With a building donation, if a contract was written properly, refunds could be totally avoided. A donor went in donating towards a building and a building was provided (except in the case of the Super Power Building). People could not complain about not receiving what was promised when the emphasis moved from training and processing services to real estate.

As you say. "Still Here", in your 2nd paragraph, those working close to him have to and do believe in DM and have managed to convince themselves that this is all for some higher purpose. There is no way they sit around thinking of new ways to dupe other staff or parishioners. They believe fervently that those of us who have departed C of S are the enemy; the psychos and evildoers, while DM is a "knight in shinning honor". Of course DM knows what is going on but feels that he is acting honorably in the circumstances he has placed himself in.

BTW, most of this is speculation, achieved by an attempt to view things objectively from differing points of view.
Lakey

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Okay. Here's the short version. But it's still hard to believe.
The Org is ordered by Int Management to upgrade to an Ideal Org.
The Org bleeds the public dry to purchase the building.
The public gives the money.
The Org gets the building purchased and the title is handed over to management.
The Org continues to feed off the public and sends tithes for the services the public pay for.
The Org also pays rent on the property that the public paid for to management.

EVERYONE WINS!!

And this is the purpose and main activity of "religion" ? :confused2:

 

[still here]

All reasonable assumptions Lakey, as they say - power corrupts.

Still

 

[La La Lou Lou]

We discussed earlier on another thread how those in the Sea Org looked down on those just on staff and they look down on the public. From DM's standpoint all people bellow him are off purpose tossers that deserve to work till they fall over, then bury themselves. That's even if he believes it's a real technology. If he knows it's crap then his attitude would be even less loving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mURhNIjc-Kw

 

[lkwdblds]

We discussed earlier on another thread how those in the Sea Org looked down on those just on staff and they look down on the public. From DM's standpoint all people bellow him are off purpose tossers that deserve to work till they fall over, then bury themselves. That's even if he believes it's a real technology. If he knows it's crap then his attitude would be even less loving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mURhNIjc-Kw

All people below him? That would be everybody in the world except Tom Cruise - his only peer, the way he sees it. Does he have any other peers? I'm just asking. As they say, its lonely at the top!

I wonder what criteria he uses to judge the worth of people. Dedicating one's life to working for and promoting C of S doesn't seem to count for anything even if a person has contributed a lot in this area. Look at Heber Jentzsch as an example. He's put in nearly 45 years of his life dedicating himself to Scn and now in his old age, he is looked down on by DM as being worthless. The only thing that seems to impress DM is being a celebrity, those handful of elite people adored by the public. If one is a celebrity, DM won't trash him as long as he stays loyal. Is there anything else, other than celebrity status that he respects in people?
Lakey

 

[Terril park]

I have NEVER understood the Idol Morgues real estate schemes. All they seem to do is lose money.

On the other hand, if some sucker hands you, free and clear, the title to a paid-for, renovated building, I don't think it much matters how bad a deal the sucker made on the purchase price or renovation expenses.

Still -- I wish someone would explain it clearly in a single post how it all works.

Pretty please with dark chocolate chips on top?

TG1

Its done to keep the IRS of DM's back. this thread on ESMB goes into this
and I've quoted one of its posts where Mike Rinder comments.


Thread: Mike Rinder's Blog : Ideal Orgs, IAS, Superpower, Miscavige

-----------------------
COS buys buildings to satisfy IRS but still keep the assets.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/super.../#comment-7220
Rusty says: April 1, 2013 at 1:55 pm

Remember the settlement with the IRS. 501(c)(3) will box CoS into certain kinds of transactions. Buying buildings (even LOTS of unused buildings) and fundraising for Super Power can help demonstrate an absence of inurement. IRS EO Topic 81: “Inurement is likely to arise where the financial benefit represents a transfer of the organization’s financial resources to *an individual* solely by virtue of the individual’s relationship with the organization without regard to accomplishing exempt purposes.” Buildings -I would think- qualify as “exempt purposes”. Rathbun was on the Tax Compliance Committee. I’d be surprised if this kind of thing didn’t come up as a discussion point during the Transition Period.

Mike Rinder says: April 1, 2013 at 4:03 pm

Rusty — you are absolutely correct. One of the reasons you see the IAS buying buildings is to try to make outlays for exempt purpose activities…. Monique Yingling harped on Miscaviger constantly to have the IAS spend money. He did not want to spend it on things where there was no asset, thus the buildings. RUnning “education” campaigns is good for PR and they cost very little, but the money is GONE.

Double whammy with a building purchase. It helps to prove the church/IAS/trust is expending money for the public benefit and it increases his real estate portfolio.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

All people below him? That would be everybody in the world except Tom Cruise - his only peer, the way he sees it. Does he have any other peers? I'm just asking. As they say, its lonely at the top!

I wonder what criteria he uses to judge the worth of people. Dedicating one's life to working for and promoting C of S doesn't seem to count for anything even if a person has contributed a lot in this area. Look at Heber Jentzsch as an example. He's put in nearly 45 years of his life dedicating himself to Scn and now in his old age, he is looked down on by DM as being worthless. The only thing that seems to impress DM is being a celebrity, those handful of elite people adored by the public. If one is a celebrity, DM won't trash him as long as he stays loyal. Is there anything else, other than celebrity status that he respects in people?
Lakey

I think you're right nothing impresses the Bacterium like fame. Especially men that play heroes. Especially if they are handsome.

As far as peers are concerned there is the Pope, but being a Christian he is way bellow him.

 

[omnom]

So is IAS now kicking in for donos or renos for the buildings? I thought it was "parishioner fundraising" that paid for them, thus the potential flap if the buildings get signed over to have the parishioners pay rent on what they just bought.

So is IAS kicking in to keep the IRS off their back, or are the public folks being pushed to donate a lot of money? Can it possibly be both? And furthermore, who really controls the building? In Portland, it's on record as Scientology Portland LLC (or was it Inc.?), but who exactly is that (no reason that "Scientology Portland" isn't chaired by RTC execs)?

Getting accurate information is key to figuring out what's going on here. Especially if there's some legal wrangling to make it appear to be legit.

 

[MrCognition]

One of my main cognitions was sitting at an event with other like-minded scions, staring at a TV screen describing how some commercial building design in another part of the world was going to help clear mankind.

Got me to thinking, could building inspectors be SP's too? Damn you Davey, leave them alone!

 

[lkwdblds]

I think you're right nothing impresses the Bacterium like fame. Especially men that play heroes. Especially if they are handsome.

As far as peers are concerned there is the Pope, but being a Christian he is way bellow him.

How about the Dhali Lama, would DM consider him a peer? Then, of course, there is the Reverend Louis Farakhan, another religious leader who is not Christian and who also runs a controversial religion. Farakhan is now deeply involved with Dianetics and Scientology. My guess is that DM regards Farakhan quite highly? What about non religious figures. I know from attending the big annual celebrations in L.A. at the Shrine Auditorium (last time attended in 1999) that DM greatly admired the Starbucks Coffee business and it's leader and even got a Starbucks installed at Flag.

He probably admired Steve Jobs but I don't see him getting along with Donald Trump. He may consider President Obama a peer, who knows?
Lakey