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Is the Sun Conscious?

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..

Well this has been an inspiring and thought-provoking thread. It made me wonder so much about other things, so I am off to start a new thread. Join me at the new thread: "ARE THINGS THAT DON'T EXIST CONSCIOUS?"

I have started researching it but very suspiciously Google has censored all materials on this subject, so that tells me that there is some kind of conspiracy to hide the information. Wow! I can't believe they did that to us !!!

Well, now it's going to be a wild and exciting thread but I am vowing to get to the bottom of this and blow the whistle on what is REALLY going on with things that don't exist!

Other researchers are welcome to help in the crusade to stop the suppression of information!!!
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
It's not a trick question - the video skims over part of his research into morphic fields. See, there is this odd phenonium that makes one wonder if there is shared memory. In testing rats with certain mazes, they find the offspring of the rats tend to do the mazes quicker that the original rat. But more than that, other rats in different laboratories also tend to do the same maze quicker. How is that possible? Is it a memory that is shared collectively by all rats? Or are the rats formed by the same morphic field, and when you affect the field in one, it affects them all?

In the Sketchup drawing program, there is a component. If you make copies of the component, lets say fence posts for example, when you modify one, the others are also modified. The computer has the original in memory, and in altering it, it alters the others similarly. The shared memory Sheldrake discusses is a similar order concept. This is also similar to Jung's collective unconsciousness theory. If one accepts Jung's hypothesis, then there must be a collective memory for the collective unconsciousness theory to function.

"Morphic resonance is a process whereby self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. In its most general formulation, morphic resonance means that the so-called laws of nature are more like habits. The hypothesis of morphic resonance also leads to a radically new interpretation of memory storage in the brain and of biological inheritance. Memory need not be stored in material traces inside brains, which are more like TV receivers than video recorders, tuning into influences from the past. And biological inheritance need not all be coded in the genes, or in epigenetic modifications of the genes; much of it depends on morphic resonance from previous members of the species. Thus each individual inherits a collective memory from past members of the species, and also contributes to the collective memory, affecting other members of the species in the future." https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance

So, if we infer that to the sun, HH's Solar Justice Warrior, it could be possible all suns operating in a similar basis. Possibly there are various sun morphic fields, say one for brown dwarfs, another for red giants, etc. for the 7 star types on the main sequence.

So this boils down to the possibility, that because the sun a self organizing system, following the collective memory concept as above, it could have some order of consciousness.

Or something like that.

Mimsey

EDIT - Memo to HH. Re: your solar justice warrior - perhaps when we piss off the sun, he/she/it sends a Coronal Mass ejection our way which messes with the Magnetosphere, affecting the weather, I.E. raining on our parade. :duck:
All of this reflects back to Horus being named as the Sun God in Egypt some 3,500 years ago. There was little science back then and the general population needed something to believe and rally around so the Sun God myth was put forward.
People thought "there is Horus, watching over us, we better be good, honor the his laws and behave ourselves."
Then at night there was Setti, the devil moon ready to snatch your soul if you'd been bad.
Better question might be, where did the concept of the soul or thetan come from originally.
As far as rats inheriting learned behaviors I can only reflect on how it happens that puppies inherit the traits and tendencies of their parents.
In hunting dogs one can't help but notice how a bird dog variety just takes to hunting birds from the get go as a puppy. Coon hounds the same, as is the case with all dogs.
But I don't see how the sun plays a direct hand in any of it other than providing the light of day for us to see our world unfold and provide the basics for photosynthesis, without which none of this would be possible.
But whether the sun has consciousness or is just an inert ball of flaming gasses can only be guessed at.
Unless one believes one can "theta comm" with the sun based upon what one thought one learned in Scientology.
Try experimenting with theta com with the sun as an OT and let us know how it goes.
Or TR-0 with the sun from a mountain top, to eliminate any interference, while wearing a welding helmet for eye safety and see if you feel flushed with "theta"!
Maybe you start a new thing for new age types and can make millions from writing books about Horus's revelations to you while doing TR's with whoever might be being a sun of God's.
Do let us know how goes it.
But I live in the deep south of southern Florida where we are in near constant sunlight and it does seem to be a dumbing down factor and not a mentally or spiritually illuminating one.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
--snipped
Try experimenting with theta com with the sun as an OT and let us know how it goes.

Or TR-0 with the sun from a mountain top, to eliminate any interference, while wearing a welding helmet for eye safety and see if you feel flushed with "theta"!
LOL!

This might result in the coach saying "FLUNK FOR GOING BLIND".

Then (because the coach is unreasonable) he says: "START!"

A good coach does not Q &A with having to have (vision) before one can do (TR-0).
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
This might result in the coach saying "FLUNK FOR GOING BLIND".
Gotta make use of the spring clip on the inside of the welders helmet to add how ever many dark lens filters as it takes to maintain unflinching eye contact with the sun.
Cant be any worse than watching your insane friend turn into a horned satyr complete with goat legs that I couldn't blink away and who's eyes followed me when I experimented by moving left to right. Last time I ever did TR's with the dude either!
In fact he looked much like this only with red skin and deeply slit green/gold cat eyes that tracked me as I moved - bizarre!
And I only took a 1/4 tab of orange sunshine in 1972, 6 years earlier.
Made me wonder if some people's astral/theta bodies look that grotesque or reptilian like they did in the bar scene Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas!
Like they were fused into such a body as punishment for their horrific misdeeds during their between lives.
Could have kept me out of the sea org had I ever made it out there when I would have joined.

0aa6b518998a61e4a0e035f03952422b.jpg
 
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An excerpt from an article in Scientific American:

Horgan: What is the single most powerful piece of evidence for morphic resonance?

Sheldrake: There is a lot of circumstantial evidence for morphic resonance. The most striking experiment involved a long series of tests on rat learning that started in Harvard in the 1920s and continued over several decades. Rats learned to escape from a water-maze and subsequent generations learned faster and faster. At the time this looked like an example of Lamarckian inheritance, which was taboo. The interesting thing is that after the rats had learned to escape more than 10 times quicker at Harvard, when rats were tested in Edinburgh, Scotland and in Melbourne, Australia they started more or less where the Harvard rats left off. In Melbourne the rats continued to improve after repeated testing, and this effect was not confined to the descendants of trained rats, suggesting a morphic resonance rather than epigenetic effect. I discuss this evidence in A New Science of Life, now in its third edition, called Morphic Resonance in the US.

Horgan: Is animal telepathy a necessary consequence of morphic resonance?

Sheldrake: Animal telepathy is a consequence of the way that animal groups are organized by what I call morphic fields. Morphic resonance is primarily to do with an influence from the past, whereas telepathy occurs in the present and depends on the bonds between members of the group. For example, when a dog is strongly bonded to its owner, this bond persists even when the owner is far away and is, I think, the basis of telepathic communication. I see telepathy as a normal, not paranormal, means of communication between members of animal groups. For example many dogs know when their owners are coming home and start waiting for them by a door or window. My experiments on the subject are described in my book Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home. Dogs still know even when people set off at times randomly chosen by the experimenter, and travel in unfamiliar vehicles. One of these experiments can be seen here: http://www.sheldrake.org/videos/jay...-his-owner-was-coming-home-the-orf-experiment

Horgan: Do you think morphic resonance theory will ever yield practical applications?

Sheldrake: Morphic resonance involves the transfer of information across space and time. It might be possible to develop information-transfer systems, with a global memory, which would work without all the normal paraphernalia of satellites, wires, booster stations etc. I have already designed experiments in which a pin code could be transmitted from London to New York without any conventional means of communication.

Horgan: Does your scientific outlook make you doubt whether artificial-intelligence researchers can replicate human minds on computers?

Sheldrake: Morphic fields take place in self-organizing systems. Machines are not self-organizing - they are made in factories - and I would not expect them to have morphic fields. Therefore I expect artificial intelligence on digital computers will remain rather limited in scope, and those who have high hopes for it will be disappointed. However if analogue computers with genuine quantum randomness were constructed, perhaps they could be organized by morphic fields and show much more intelligent behavior. It’s possible that quantum computing will lead in this direction.

Horgan: Do you ever have doubts about morphic resonance, and think maybe the materialists are right?

Sheldrake: I would like there to be much more research on morphic resonance and I would like to see a lot more evidence for it. If there were, it would not necessarily refute materialism, but could expand the materialist worldview, which has become excessively dogmatic, as I show in my recent book Science Set Free (called The Science Delusion in the UK). I think something like morphic resonance is necessary to make sense of inheritance, memory, the evolutionary nature of nature, and many other phenomena. Lee Smolin, the theoretical physicist, recently put forward a similar idea, which he calls "the principle of precedence," and perhaps his hypothesis might mesh in better with established science, since it is formulated in the context of quantum physics. The main question is whether or not the effects predicted by the hypothesis of morphic resonance – or the principle of precedence – actually happen.

Horgan: Why do you think your ideas are so vehemently rejected by the scientific mainstream, while multiverses, string theory, panpsychism (as defined by neuroscientist Christof Koch) and other highly speculative ideas are taken seriously?

Sheldrake: Within physics, since the quantum revolution and the Big Bang cosmology, there has been a pluralism of ideas with many unexpected possibilities entertained seriously by mainstream physicists. However in the 20th century, biology moved in an opposite direction, towards to a more dogmatically materialist position. When I first put forward the hypothesis of morphic resonance in the 1980s, most biologists were convinced that all the problems of biology would soon be solved in molecular terms, and this enthusiasm gave a great impetus to human genome project. But this confidence is now waning as developmental biology continues to defy any simple explanation in terms of molecules. The assumption that genes code for the characteristics of organisms is thrown into question by the "missing heritability problem." And it turns out that the inheritance of acquired characteristics, now called epigenetic inheritance, is common in both animals and plants. The implications of this revolutionary acceptance of epigenetic effects are still being worked out, but I think that biology will become more open as a result.

Horgan: Do you believe in God? Does your faith influence your scientific outlook in any way, or vice versa?

Sheldrake: Yes, I believe in God. I am a practicing Christian, specifically an Anglican (in the US, an Episcopalian). I went through a long atheist phase, and began to question the materialist orthodoxy of science while I was still an atheist. I later came to the conclusion that there are more inclusive forms of consciousness in the universe than human minds. But my ideas about morphic resonance and telepathy are not part of orthodox religious belief, any more than they are part of orthodox science.

More at link:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...phic-fields-psychic-dogs-and-other-mysteries/

More about Sheldrake, his research, how you can participate in his experiments:

https://www.sheldrake.org/
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Mimsey, aren’t there enough real things to wonder about, rather than making up new definitions for words and asking others if they fit better than the definitions we accept and use? It’s just a play with language, not a new concept. You seem to like to play with words. The video sounds like it’s irrelevant to your question. Did you actually want to discuss the difference between animate and inanimate, or the difference between a living thing and an object? I don’t see there’s anything to debate on that. It’s clear to me the sun is an object.

Most, maybe even all objects have evidence of their history. The rings on a tree show its history long after it is dead.

You have the Scientological idea that spirits carry around memories. I don't have that concept because it makes no sense to me. If you're trying to find a way to prove spirits carry memories, well, good luck with that. I can almost see believing spirits can store memories in an object, but that's as far as I go with that. You have to have a life-death cycle to deal with impermanent objects and spirits apparently don't die.

DNA is just codes. By itself, it is not alive. It can be duplicated, but not given life. We already discussed the rat-maze-learning thing in depth and you don't seem to understand the concept of DNA turning off certain things to turn on other things without changing the code and I'm not going into that again.
 
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guanoloco

As-Wased
.

The sun is a SJW (Sun Justice Warrior) that is resisting evil white people by turning them into people of color.

I am voting for the sun in the 2020 election. Its the sun's time, I'm with her him it.

People, be sure to stop by the gift store and pick up your MASA hat!! (make american sunny again).


ps: Are people actually seriously discussing if the sun has consciousness? This is actually a subject people are confused about? LOL

AmeriKKKa was never sunny...unless you were a heterosexual white male...straight up!

images (3).jpeg
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've just logged on to another (non-scientology) forum that I'm a member of and I immediately noticed someone had started a new thread entitled: "Is The Sun Conscious". I had to do a double-take to check which forum I was on!

They posted the same video as Mimsey and invited a response. So far no one has replied.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I've just logged on to another (non-scientology) forum that I'm a member of and I immediately noticed someone had started a new thread entitled: "Is The Sun Conscious". I had to do a double-take to check which forum I was on!

They posted the same video as Mimsey and invited a response. So far no one has replied.
Obviously Mimsey using another handle. :biggrin:
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
It's not a trick question - the video skims over part of his research into morphic fields. See, there is this odd phenonium that makes one wonder if there is shared memory. In testing rats with certain mazes, they find the offspring of the rats tend to do the mazes quicker that the original rat. But more than that, other rats in different laboratories also tend to do the same maze quicker. How is that possible? Is it a memory that is shared collectively by all rats? Or are the rats formed by the same morphic field, and when you affect the field in one, it affects them all?

In the Sketchup drawing program, there is a component. If you make copies of the component, lets say fence posts for example, when you modify one, the others are also modified. The computer has the original in memory, and in altering it, it alters the others similarly. The shared memory Sheldrake discusses is a similar order concept. This is also similar to Jung's collective unconsciousness theory. If one accepts Jung's hypothesis, then there must be a collective memory for the collective unconsciousness theory to function.

"Morphic resonance is a process whereby self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. In its most general formulation, morphic resonance means that the so-called laws of nature are more like habits. The hypothesis of morphic resonance also leads to a radically new interpretation of memory storage in the brain and of biological inheritance. Memory need not be stored in material traces inside brains, which are more like TV receivers than video recorders, tuning into influences from the past. And biological inheritance need not all be coded in the genes, or in epigenetic modifications of the genes; much of it depends on morphic resonance from previous members of the species. Thus each individual inherits a collective memory from past members of the species, and also contributes to the collective memory, affecting other members of the species in the future." https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance

So, if we infer that to the sun, HH's Solar Justice Warrior, it could be possible all suns operating in a similar basis. Possibly there are various sun morphic fields, say one for brown dwarfs, another for red giants, etc. for the 7 star types on the main sequence.

So this boils down to the possibility, that because the sun a self organizing system, following the collective memory concept as above, it could have some order of consciousness.

Or something like that.

Mimsey

EDIT - Memo to HH. Re: your solar justice warrior - perhaps when we piss off the sun, he/she/it sends a Coronal Mass ejection our way which messes with the Magnetosphere, affecting the weather, I.E. raining on our parade. :duck:

Here's some data on morphic fields or, rather, the lack of.

Hundredth monkey effect
 
Mimsey, aren’t there enough real things to wonder about, rather than making up new definitions for words and asking others if they fit better than the definitions we accept and use? It’s just a play with language, not a new concept. You seem to like to play with words. The video sounds like it’s irrelevant to your question. Did you actually want to discuss the difference between animate and inanimate, or the difference between a living thing and an object? I don’t see there’s anything to debate on that. It’s clear to me the sun is an object.

Most, maybe even all objects have evidence of their history. The rings on a tree show its history long after it is dead.

You have the Scientological idea that spirits carry around memories. I don't have that concept because it makes no sense to me. If you're trying to find a way to prove spirits carry memories, well, good luck with that. I can almost see believing spirits can store memories in an object, but that's as far as I go with that. You have to have a life-death cycle to deal with impermanent objects and spirits apparently don't die.

DNA is just codes. By itself, it is not alive. It can be duplicated, but not given life. We already discussed the rat-maze-learning thing in depth and you don't seem to understand the concept of DNA turning off certain things to turn on other things without changing the code and I'm not going into that again.
A) I am not inventing definitions / words - If you are referring to Solar justice Warrior (or the earlier Sun Justice Warrior version) blame HH. If you are referring to Tribe, as used throughout this thread, that was not my definition - AFAIK, that version as been around since the 60's. If you are referring to consciousness, refer to Link, 367,593 BC who defined it, and painted it on a wall in a cave, after his woman, Nug beat his head with a club, when she caught him lusting after Ayla.

( yes - they were characters from Encino Man and Clan of the Cave Bear)

B) I watched the video - you might as well. I thought the subject worthy of a thread. It explains why the Sun might be conscious.

C) The collective memory is not a Scientology concept, it is more akin to the holographic universe concept, or Jung's concept of Archetypes, where the brain appears to be a receiver of these collective memories, rather than a data bank of memories housed in the neurons. Hubbard's theory of a thetan having a bank of memories stored in pictures may or may not be factual. Memories stored as pictures in a bank is merely a theory despite Hubbard's claims to the opposite, to explain why the neurons couldn't possibly house the memories of a life time, and where they are stored.

D) I do understand DNA and see it's limitations as well. This limitation, is what brought Sheldrake, a biologist, to theorize what, if the DNA couldn't explain how things grow from a few codes in the gene, what then does? Hence the Morphic Field theory.

E) tree rings are a great proxy for climate data - thick rings show good growing seasons, thin ones the opposite, and by counting them you can establish the climate of many years ago. They even count the rings in long dead trees they dig up to good result.

You ought to browse Sheldrake's web site - he has done a lot of research on it, written books on it, and several other subjects.

Mimsey

Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biology as a Fellow of Clare College. He was Principal Plant Physiologist at the International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics and From 2005 to 2010 was Director of the Perrott-Warrick project, Cambridge.
 
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Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
LOL!

This might result in the coach saying "FLUNK FOR GOING BLIND".

Then (because the coach is unreasonable) he says: "START!"

A good coach does not Q &A with having to have (vision) before one can do (TR-0).
If there is a problem of going blind doing TRO with the sun you need to undercut the gradient and do OT TRO first. Once flat one should then be able to confront the sun using TRO without going blind. It's true because I wrote it down. Ron says if it isn't written it isn't true.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
If there is a problem of going blind doing TRO with the sun you need to undercut the gradient and do OT TRO first. Once flat one should then be able to confront the sun using TRO without going blind. It's true because I wrote it down. Ron says if it isn't written it isn't true.
lol

Sometimes I wonder if Hubbard was not just playing a cruel practical joke for his own amusement by asserting increasingly absurd "discoveries" (e.g. axioms, factors, stable datums, universal principals, et al) and testing the depths of credulity which could be plumbed without one of his homo sapiens lab rats suddenly laughing in his face, blurting out "OMG that's total bullshit!" and promptly running all the way thru and out of the "total freedom" maze.

That's the most fascinating part of Scientology. Not the stupid tech that stupidly never works. The stupid guinea pigs that nod their heads , madly winning & grinning when Hubbard assures them that the cure for lung cancer is to smoke exponentially more cigarettes which will "run out" the cancer. That is the moment of truth for everyone who ever came in contact with Hubbard and his avariciously cruel hoax--how completely insane did Scientology have to be in order for them to realize that their mind, body and soul had been hijacked by new age pirates who had them convinced that they were one of the "elite" lucky few who had the great fortune to be able to pay the ransom and retrieve themselves in small affordable amortized payments the next billion years.

Be sure to stop in the bookstore on your way out, we have the new LRH audio lecture entitled: "WHY I CAN EXTERIORIZE, KNOCK OFF HATS AT 50 YARDS, MOCK UP OR MAKE MEST DISAPPEAR & CURE ALL DISEASE---BUT CAN'T SHOW ANYBODY ANY OF THESE MIRACLES BECAUSE....WELL IT'S CONFIDENTIAL AND I'LL TELL YOU LATER WHEN YOU ARE HIGHER ON THE BRIDGE AND YOUR HAVINGNESS COMES UP TO BEING ABLE TO HAVE IT---BUT JUST TRUST ME, I DEFINITELY HAVE GODLIKE POWERS AND THE GOOD NEWS IS YOU DO TOO, MY FRIEND!!"
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...snipped

I watched the video - you might as well. I thought the subject worthy of a thread. It explains why the Sun might be conscious.
.

I am still deeply troubled by the question of: IS THE SUN A TRIBE?

I mean, there are other suns and they all are quite large and round and bright. And, if that's not proof enough-- all of the hundreds of billions of suns in the galaxy have developed the same defense mechanism, incinerating any enemies or predators who get too close.

With billions of examples, it is clearly not possible for it to be a coincidence.

Therefore suns can scientifically be proven to be a tribe.

From this we can conclude that everything is a tribe.

Tribe deniers are tribophobes!
 
lol

Sometimes I wonder if Hubbard was not just playing a cruel practical joke for his own amusement by asserting increasingly absurd "discoveries" (e.g. axioms, factors, stable datums, universal principals, et al) and testing the depths of credulity which could be plumbed without one of his homo sapiens lab rats suddenly laughing in his face, blurting out "OMG that's total bullshit!" and promptly running all the way thru and out of the "total freedom" maze.

snip
I realized a lot of it is a gullibility test. If you believe he could bust a bronco at 3 years of age, well, he has a bridge to sell you, and not the one in Brooklyn either... Mimsey
 
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I am still deeply troubled by the question of: IS THE SUN A TRIBE?

I mean, there are other suns and they all are quite large and round and bright. And, if that's not proof enough-- all of the hundreds of billions of suns in the galaxy have developed the same defense mechanism, incinerating any enemies or predators who get too close.

With billions of examples, it is clearly not possible for it to be a coincidence.

Therefore suns can scientifically be proven to be a tribe.

From this we can conclude that everything is a tribe.

Tribe deniers are tribophobes!
Shall I send you some tribute for your sublime insight? I shall despite much tribulation and surely regain my sunny disposition, therefore. Mimsey
 
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