Is the Sun Conscious?

[JustSheila]

Fascinating that you see that too!
I am in the process of selling a timeshare I have in N.Carolina and used to consider moving there, the locals call us Northerners "half backs" because we move from the oppressive Florida heat to the soothing mild weather of the Carolina mountains and are half way back to where "we belong". And there are a ton of places constantly for sale. But what I learned is that I could never function among the ignoramuses that I've encountered in my travels there. People are stuck in civil war incidents and still see anyone from north of the Mason/Dixon as "Yankee's" who they ostracize and rip off if you hire them to work on your place, especially if you move off the beaten path. They probably react poorly to an Aussie accent too, I'd imagine. It's sad really.
We've all seen the movie "Deliverance" and it's still much like in too many areas unless you find a progressive town such as Ashville, N.C.

Yup. I've experienced the same thing, here, except they don't really talk much about the civil war. Most that I meet spend their time gossiping and making up stories. They create or imagine dramas and then resolve their dramas and that keeps them too busy all day long to find time to work.

You have to live it to believe it. I see you've been going through a similar thing there as I have here.

It doesn't stop with workers ripping you off, though. Companies you work for do the same thing and treat you like dirt. They also have all sorts of imaginary dramas and hallucinate events that never happen because as a northerner or foreigner, you are an "outsider." Witch hunts against northerners are alive and well in the south.

The cities are far, far better. Nashville is good. I'm done working in the country areas, had enough of this craziness.

Added: Those houses for sale are from unqualified people buying them, btw. There is a huge percentage of the population on welfare in the south. But they're not worth buying because wages are so low and there is so much animosity toward "the outsiders." Their communities are made up of the circle of people they grew up with or relatives and they are mostly closed communities. Even some of the pastors are relatives. Still, they've had a BIG influx of northerners buying properties anyway and their status quo is being forced to change as the population is changing.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Witch hunts against northerners are alive and well in the south.

Yeah, don't I know it. When I moved down here I bought a duplex and inherited tenants on one side who were commercial "fishermen" who really moved dope. They were SO paranoid that my Colombian, then wife and I were government narcs and spread it all around. I got a job working for the local County Gov. and worked my way up even though the government narc rumors swirled around at the county. I just thought that they'd soon see that I had nothing to do with any of that and they'd wise up. After 20 years of my having nothing to do with drug dealers, nor was anyone I knew ever busted, they still couldn't figure out that it was a lie. The drug dealer tenant moved out after a couple years and his druggie wife, who's ex husband died of a morphine overdose, was able to go back to school at the tax payers expense through social security and got her masters in education and is now the principal at the school my ex wife teaches at and she's not being treated well. Such a beautiful area to live but yet such a hell!

 

[Dulloldfart]

Did Sheldrake say that ALL dogs know when their masters are coming home, or SOME? Is HH saying that ZERO dogs know when their masters are coming home?

I've never owned a dog, but I often spent time with my sister's dog, a cross between a border collie and a greyhound. Lovely dog, seemed to be smart (did dozens of tricks on command) and ran really fast. Sometimes my sister would go out shopping, and the dog knew when she was coming home only when she was in sight or earshot, not before. Not once in dozens of times, and I was looking because I'd read Sheldrake's book years before and was curious.

Paul

 

[DagwoodGum]

Did Sheldrake say that ALL dogs know when their masters are coming home, or SOME? Is HH saying that ZERO dogs know when their masters are coming home?

I've never owned a dog, but I often spent time with my sister's dog, a cross between a border collie and a greyhound. Lovely dog, seemed to be smart (did dozens of tricks on command) and ran really fast. Sometimes my sister would go out shopping, and the dog knew when she was coming home only when she was in sight or earshot, not before. Not once in dozens of times, and I was looking because I'd read Sheldrake's book years before and was curious.

Paul

Could depend on the breed of dog. My Peekapom was described in articles as being especially good for autistic children because they seem to be able to read their masters with greater depth and clarity than most other breeds, a field my biological father had his masters in and ran a Autism facility on the Puget Sound in Marysville Washington so I had some insights into that realm. My sister then followed him into the field. The same way that some breeds are much better service dogs for the handicapped than others without trying to dominate the handicapped the way some dominant breeds will. I decided I would get a Peekapom, my ex wife had one, and they have an uncanny ability to bond. I've had plenty of meat headed shit eaters from a Boxer to a Dachshund that had zero ability to bond or know - maybe more an educated guess, when I was arriving or leaving. But this little bugger just seems to get it right, almost always.
I once gave a kitten to my landlord because it wouldn't leave me alone, especially when I was trying to sleep. My landlord commented after a few weeks "You know, this cat runs to the door when you come home or leave", he lived just down the stairs from us, "and never does it for anyone else". Probably the cat learned the distinctive sound of my apartment and car door as compared to to others and connected the dots as he caught wind of my odor as I walked by when I was in the hall, I think that was the case how he knew with that example.
But this dog either has so studied my every move that he figures out I'm about to leave or we have some kind of deep connection going.
I don't disbelieve in phenomenon just because Hubbard had something to say about it.
Hubbard is an inert in my thinking as a 32 year old fart into the wind.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Exactly Paul - He was saying the dog JayTee demonstrably did it. He didn't claim all dogs do it. He gave examples of other dogs that did. In his book "The Dog Who Knew When His Master Was Coming Home" he also gives other examples of various animals that have exhibited similar behavior. In his book "The Feeling of Being Stared At" he gives a lot of statistical evidence for that phenonium. I have seen that in action - I will look at somebody and they turn their head to glace my way, but I would never say it happens all the time. But, it does happen and it has been tested scientifically.

The book also goes into as the studies on people who know who is calling them - which test is dead easy to do you self. Like it or not, it happens.

This is not news, that PSI phenomena doesn't appear to be found in 100% of the people 100% of the time. But that it does exist in some of the people some of the time is a strong indicator that something is going on. Something that needs research, not derision.

Mimsey

 

[guanoloco]

Exactly Paul - He was saying the dog JayTee demonstrably did it. He didn't claim all dogs do it. He gave examples of other dogs that did. In his book "The Dog Who Knew When His Master Was Coming Home" he also gives other examples of various animals that have exhibited similar behavior. In his book "The Feeling of Being Stared At" he gives a lot of statistical evidence for that phenonium. I have seen that in action - I will look at somebody and they turn their head to glace my way, but I would never say it happens all the time. But, it does happen and it has been tested scientifically.

The book also goes into as the studies on people who know who is calling them - which test is dead easy to do you self. Like it or not, it happens.

This is not news, that PSI phenomena doesn't appear to be found in 100% of the people 100% of the time. But that it does exist in some of the people some of the time is a strong indicator that something is going on. Something that needs research, not derision.

Mimsey

What I've read about the stare is that it appears to be heavily influenced by the researcher. Skeptics find no statistical evidence while PSI researchers find statistical evidence.

 

[TomKat]

HH, you are really slipping - 3 pages in and you finally twig on who the video is from? Tisk, tisk.

Next - your debunkers of Sheldon were debunked. If you go to his site he has all of them and how they were debunked, for instance, you claim his dog stuff wasn't replicated - it was the subject of a video done by Danish TV and they had no trouble replicating the result.

"Dr Richard Wiseman Denies His Own Success
Conjurer and professional skeptic, Richard Wiseman is Professor for the Public Understanding of Psychology at the University of Hertfordshire, England. He's also a Consultant Editor for The Skeptical Inquirer, and a Research Fellow of CSI (the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry). He replicated Rupert's results with a dog that knew when his owner was coming home, obtaining positive, statistically significant results, and then claimed the opposite."
https://www.sheldrake.org/reactions/magicians-attack-research-on-dogs

"James Randi - a Conjurer Attempts to Debunk Research on Animals
The January 2000 issue of Dog World magazine included an article on a possible sixth sense in dogs, which discussed some of my research. In this article Randi was quoted as saying that in relation to canine ESP, "We at the JREF [James Randi Educational Foundation] have tested these claims. They fail." No details were given of these tests."
Snip
"Randi also claimed to have debunked one of my experiments with the dog Jaytee, a part of which was shown on television. Jaytee went to the window to wait for his owner when she set off to come home, but did not do so before she set off. In Dog World, Randi stated: "Viewing the entire tape, we see that the dog responded to every car that drove by, and to every person who walked by." This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape."
https://www.sheldrake.org/reactions/james-randi-a-conjurer-attempts-to-debunk-research-on-animals

Better luck next time.

Mimsey

The problem with Skeptics like Randi is their complete absence of honesty in pursuit of the "truth." People who did his test to see if they could see auras, by identifying people behind a partition by their auras, say he moved people around behind the partitions to foil the psychics. Just as people were blind to LRH's dishonesty, Skeptics are blind to Randi's. Because the Skeptics are a religious cult.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

What I've read about the stare is that it appears to be heavily influenced by the researcher. Skeptics find no statistical evidence while PSI researchers find statistical evidence.

Well, perhaps you have a link to share? In his book he goes into the Amsterdam Experiment P 176 and by March 2002 18,793 people had done the test. The stats break down as follows - the percent chance of random guessing was 20% males under 8 - 41%, 9-16 37%, over 17 35% Females under 8 38%, aged between 9-16 32%, over 17 - 33%

It is hard to imagine how the researcher would influence such a test. The test was run on visitors to the museum. The subject sits in a room, the looker sits behind the subject and is out of physical communication with the subject. There is no other human interaction, the computer made it look like a game. The person doing the looking is signaled to by a graphic on a computer screen when to look. The whole process is automated. When the subject thinks he/she was stared at, he/she hits a key of the computer. They repeat the test 30 times, then the score is tabulated and displayed to the subject.

Other tests have been done where the looker is in a different room, looking at a video screen of subjects further away, looking through mirrors etc. Hard to argue with statistics.

Try it yourself. Go outside and stare at people and see if any turn to look your way. Or in a mall. A store. Anywhere. Or perhaps you recall a time that happened? Was there any subtle influence? If not, how do you explain it?

Mimsey

 

[guanoloco]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ruperts-resonance/

Third, in 2000 John Colwell of Middlesex University in London conducted a formal test using Sheldrake's experimental protocol. Twelve volunteers participated in 12 sequences of 20 stare or no-stare trials each and received accuracy feedback for the final nine sessions. Results: subjects could detect being stared at only when accuracy feedback was provided, which Colwell attributed to the subjects learning what was, in fact, a nonrandom presentation of the trials. When University of Hertfordshire psychologist Richard Wiseman also attempted to replicate Sheldrake's research, he found that subjects detected stares at rates no better than chance.
​

<snip>​

​

Fifth, there is an experimenter bias problem. Institute of Noetic Sciences researcher Marilyn Schlitz--a believer in psychic phenomena--collaborated with Wiseman (a skeptic of psi) in replicating Sheldrake's research and discovered that when they did the staring Schlitz found statistically significant results, whereas Wiseman found chance results.​

​

http://www.richardwiseman.com/research/parapsychology.html

The remote detection of staring
Some parapsychologists have conducted psychophysiological studies in which participants seem able to psychically detect an unseen gaze. In 1995 and 1998 Prof Wiseman carried out joint studies in collaboration with Dr Marilyn Schlitz (Institute of Noetic Sciences), a parapsychologist who had carried out many of the most successful staring studies. The studies revealed evidence of an ‘experimenter effect’, with the sessions carried out by Prof Wiseman obtaining quite different results from those conducted by Dr Schlitz. A third joint study, reported in 2005, has failed to replicate this experimenter effect.​

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Wiseman was found to be unreliable - he got positive results on testing the dog Jaytee then falsified them by saying he got no results. His honesty is suspect. I'll look into the others later but you can go to Sheldrake's page and see for your self in the meantime.

Also - re: improved results with positive feedback, Russell Targ notes that as well but looks at in a positive light - the more feedback the better the results - it's akin to positive reinforcement of learning, something most teachers know about. Why Colwell takes it as a negative is beyond me.
If he is worried improved scores is a bad thing as a result of learning - I am suspect of his motives in doing the test at all. It behooves a person to improve, doesn't it? That a person becomes more facile at telepathy ( or whatever) through validation proves it's existence.
Mimsey

https://www.sheldrake.org/reactions

 

[TomKat]

Try it yourself. Go outside and stare at people and see if any turn to look your way. Or in a mall. A store. Anywhere. Or perhaps you recall a time that happened? Was there any subtle influence? If not, how do you explain it?

That's why most Skeptics are male. There aren't many women around who haven't felt eyes on them.

 

[JustSheila]

Yeah, don't I know it. When I moved down here I bought a duplex and inherited tenants on one side who were commercial "fishermen" who really moved dope. They were SO paranoid that my Colombian, then wife and I were government narcs and spread it all around. I got a job working for the local County Gov. and worked my way up even though the government narc rumors swirled around at the county. I just thought that they'd soon see that I had nothing to do with any of that and they'd wise up. After 20 years of my having nothing to do with drug dealers, nor was anyone I knew ever busted, they still couldn't figure out that it was a lie. The drug dealer tenant moved out after a couple years and his druggie wife, who's ex husband died of a morphine overdose, was able to go back to school at the tax payers expense through social security and got her masters in education and is now the principal at the school my ex wife teaches at and she's not being treated well. Such a beautiful area to live but yet such a hell!

I can't believe you survived that working for the local County. DG, you must be doing a great job and have at least one person there that realizes it, too. That's so nasty about the horrible rumor they spread about you and your wife. Sickening. It's hard to believe that former tenant, the druggie woman, became a principal with that sort of background, but if she never had a police record showing it, it's hard to prove. I'm real sorry for your ex-wife having to go through all that, though.

Me, I was not so lucky. A Temp who had been passed over for my position was kept on as a temp to work the same shifts, with nobody else around. Bad idea, right? Then she had a direct text line to the overall manager and made up all sorts of wild stories, thinking this would get me fired and she would get my job. Of course, I didn't find out about it until after the fact. I was furious but kept my cool and gave warm good-byes to the other people in the office, who were really good-hearted. I also let the manager know that the Temp had been spreading rumors about everybody, including the manager, which made her eyes go wide and she freaked out and decided not to hire the vicious, gossipy Temp. I suppose I could have fought it, the benefits were terrific, but the wages were low and the schedule was the worst. I had to work every single weekend, 10 hrs minimum Fri-Sun. Now that I've been out a while without that stress, I'm pretty relieved. It was a toxic environment.

 

[DagwoodGum]

I can't believe you survived that working for the local County. DG, you must be doing a great job and have at least one person there that realizes it, too. That's so nasty about the horrible rumor they spread about you and your wife. Sickening. It's hard to believe that former tenant, the druggie woman, became a principal with that sort of background, but if she never had a police record showing it, it's hard to prove. I'm real sorry for your ex-wife having to go through all that, though.

Me, I was not so lucky. A Temp who had been passed over for my position was kept on as a temp to work the same shifts, with nobody else around. Bad idea, right? Then she had a direct text line to the overall manager and made up all sorts of wild stories, thinking this would get me fired and she would get my job. Of course, I didn't find out about it until after the fact. I was furious but kept my cool and gave warm good-byes to the other people in the office, who were really good-hearted. I also let the manager know that the Temp had been spreading rumors about everybody, including the manager, which made her eyes go wide and she freaked out and decided not to hire the vicious, gossipy Temp. I suppose I could have fought it, the benefits were terrific, but the wages were low and the schedule was the worst. I had to work every single weekend, 10 hrs minimum Fri-Sun. Now that I've been out a while without that stress, I'm pretty relieved. It was a toxic environment.

Yeah, I took an early retirement at 55 just to get away from the shit heads and their shit.
As far as your situation goes, I hope you find employment where you don't have to deal with sleazy backstabbers! If there is one good lesson to take from Scientology it is the information about 3rd party and anti social personalities. I think Hubbard was able to be so illuminating about that type because he was describing who he knew himself to be and through projection put all his own traits on the SP's that he described.
You've lived elsewhere but I haven't so please tell me, is the U.S. fast becoming scum bag central or have I just planned poorly to the point of landing in their midst too often?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

A theory and a hypothesis are polar opposites. Look them up multiple times. A theory is proven. A hypothesis is conjecture. Theory doesn't mean the same in science as it does to thee and me. If you call morphic resonance a theory you're mistaken.

But what if SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN JOURNAL calls it a theory?

They do.

Rupert's Resonance
The theory of "morphic resonance" posits that people have a sense of when they are being stared at. What does the research show?​

​

...snipped: ​

 

[TomKat]

Is the U.S. fast becoming scum bag central or have I just planned poorly to the point of landing in their midst too often?

In corporate America, the scum rises to the top. They have the tech industry to help them enslave the rest of the population. It's worst on the east and west coasts (blue states). They are so smart they didn't notice when the tech industry took over the Democratic party with dreams of global technocracy. Sounds like you live in scum central

 

[guanoloco]

But what if SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN JOURNAL calls it a theory?

They do.

Rupert's Resonance
The theory of "morphic resonance" posits that people have a sense of when they are being stared at. What does the research show?

...snipped: ​

My only retort:

SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

 

[guanoloco]

But what if SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN JOURNAL calls it a theory?

They do.

Rupert's Resonance
The theory of "morphic resonance" posits that people have a sense of when they are being stared at. What does the research show?

...snipped: ​

Sheldrake even calls it correctly:

Morphic resonance is a process whereby self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. In its most general formulation, morphic resonance means that the so-called laws of nature are more like habits. The hypothesis of morphic resonance also leads to a radically new interpretation of memory storage in the brain and of biological inheritance.

https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance​

 

[ThetanExterior]

I'm currently reading a book on anti-gravity. I can't put it down.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Exactly Paul - He was saying the dog JayTee demonstrably did it. He didn't claim all dogs do it. He gave examples of other dogs that did. In his book "The Dog Who Knew When His Master Was Coming Home" he also gives other examples of various animals that have exhibited similar behavior. In his book "The Feeling of Being Stared At" he gives a lot of statistical evidence for that phenonium. I have seen that in action - I will look at somebody and they turn their head to glace my way, but I would never say it happens all the time. But, it does happen and it has been tested scientifically.

Me too.

Once after course I was stuck at a traffic light---so, having just heard an LRH tape ("Confrontingness & Fixed Conditions"), I decided to really put my TR-O in on that red light and stare until it picked up my intention. It worked like a freakin' miracle, I was there, I observed it with my own eyes. The light changed to green.

So, in this way we have both "seen it in action". And, like you, I would never say it happens all the time. But it did happen that time and thus it has been tested scientifically.

Mimsey, it's great to have you on these threads for beings who can't have theta things! They are also "prove it! prove it! prove it!" and other degraded MEST universe arbitraries. As long as it is real to me that my staring at a traffic signal caused it to change, that's all that counts. Hey, I can hear some of those "NEVER THETA" skeptics on this message board complain that I sat at that light and started at it for 3 hours and 28 minutes. Hey, it's not my fault that the traffic light has a com lag.

The great thing about all these threads is that scientists like yourself keep patiently confirming that all these paranormal miracles really are real science, like totally and stuff!!!

 

[JustSheila]

Yeah, I took an early retirement at 55 just to get away from the shit heads and their shit.
As far as your situation goes, I hope you find employment where you don't have to deal with sleazy backstabbers! If there is one good lesson to take from Scientology it is the information about 3rd party and anti social personalities. I think Hubbard was able to be so illuminating about that type because he was describing who he knew himself to be and through projection put all his own traits on the SP's that he described.
You've lived elsewhere but I haven't so please tell me, is the U.S. fast becoming scum bag central or have I just planned poorly to the point of landing in their midst too often?

I've only been back in the US a few years and never lived in the south before, but have a nephew who experienced a fair share of scumbags in Florida and moved to the East Coast. Lots of people think well of the Carolinas, though, and retire there. For my part, I'm sure moving to the area I am in was a mistake. There are nice people here, but some 1 in 5 are so vicious and sneaky, but so well-established, that whatever I try to build gets torn apart. It has been a very rough go and it still is.

The South is, sadly, very polarized with far too many people scamming and living off government programs. One is a (government paid) carer for another who is a carer for another who is on Disability and they all pool their government housing and benefits together and go to the doctor or get prescriptions delivered for every little thing because they can and their lives are about continually proving they can't work and I just keep seeing this over and over again. Many have one person with a full-time job married to another who is on Disability so together they qualify for FHA for huge, beautiful houses and other loans, then they get a bunch of roommates and rent out rooms in their houses but don't keep them up until the homes get trashed and their credit is ruined and the home gets put up for foreclosure so they trash it further until a Northerner or foreigner buys it and then the Northerner or foreigner gets scammed by similar people and they start all over again with someone else in the family to hold the job and keep their eyes peeled for the next innocent working person who arrives. It just goes on and on and on. So you can forget about any small towns or more remote areas in Tennessee or Georgia. Just figure that there are now heaps of people - a good 20-30% or more of those living in America - who are basically living by taking advantage of those that work and doing it knowingly and a huge population hooked on painkillers or similar who don't think twice about taking every dime you own. It doesn't matter to them that you worked hard all your life to make sure you can retire when you can't work anymore - they don't care. They think you are stupid, you are a mark, and yes, they are very much out to get you, so strip away any ideas you have that things are otherwise and just be aware that it's the same old con game as ever and the people who want to make friends with you aren't actually friendly, after all and you have to defend yourself or they'll rob you blind and destroy you in the process.

Rhode Island is great but has whiffs of some of the above going on, Connecticut is relatively normal but expensive, Texas is a mix, Michigan, Indiana and Illinois are a lot better in the suburbs than the major cities - everyone I know has moved out of the big cities because of the crime. Maryland is insane. I've heard mixed things about different parts of Oregon. Denver and Boulder are gorgeous but expensive and you still have to watch where you go. Boston and DC are also a mix. The West is probably still pretty good, like Arizona and similar, and I've heard Washington State is nice.

What I see in America now is a huge differentiation and separation of social/economic classes. Wherever you choose to live, you have to look closely at the crime rate or low incomes and live completely clear of those areas if you want to own anything nice or save for your future. It's not enough anymore to live where your house is safe in a nice neighborhood pocket. You have to work in areas and for companies that are well-established and treat you with dignity or quit fast. Most decent, intelligent people I know now work in jobs where they have independence or particular industry skills or they have their own businesses. Lots of business owners are micro-managers with no respect for independent thought, so it's a challenge finding a good one to work unless you have special skills, and even then, it's very competitive and they prefer hiring the young.

Do I sound cynical? This is how it is in America now and it's been a shocker for me. I'm here for my family and determined to see them as much as I can and I will get on top of this, one way or the other. I think others here who have lived here longer would have better knowledge and advice on the best areas for someone to live and work, though.