Is there anything from Scientology you have found useful?

[Commander Birdsong]

A very thoughtful and terrific post.

What might help to understand the process of "Leaving Scientology" is to understand that it is the reverse of getting into Scientology.

Each step forward onto and forward on "The Bridge" is a PROBLEM followed by a SOLUTION, or more accurately a HOPED-FOR SOLUTION. Someone enters Scientology to fix or improve something they think can be better. Scientology offers them the promise and hope and one embarks. Now this is the part one needs to follow closely......

Each step of the way, Scientology DOES NOT WORK. And the person is given the NEXT SOLUTION, typically their next step higher on the Grade Chart. The person is gotten to brush aside their reservations and try the next step, always hoping that it will work. It never works.

I can hear the outcry now, "But it does work sometimes!!!" No, it never works, nobody goes Clear. Nobody goes exterior with full perception. Nobody goes OT. What Scientologists are talking about are other minor EFFECTS that they experience, that's what they call "wins". The actual abilities of Clear and OT are never obtained by anyone, ever.

Scientology always has a SOLUTION to why a person is still "aberrated" and "effect" of their life or some part of it. They are masters at keeping the spark of hope alive. And people do not want to give up their dream of immortality and mastery of all life that easily.

I think of Scientology as a mine field. When you have ventured into one, your best bet is to stop and very, very carefully retrace your steps backwards.

For a Scientologist leaving the Church, they have taken but ONE step backwards in a 100 yard minefield. 99 yards to go to return to the safety and sanity of their own life.

Someone rejecting the COS and COB is a red herring. Much is made of someone "leaving" but there are two different and distinct phenomena.

1) SOMEONE LEAVING SCIENTOLOGY

2) SOMEONE LEAVING THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY


A person who leaves the COS is like a patient in a hospital who leaves the surgery room and is wheeled into intensive care. They are still in the hospital and still gravely ill, surviving moment to moment with the aid of doctors, nurses and diagnostic technology.

Indie Scientologists are simply Scientologists who said they don't want to be regged so much or don't want Hubbard's harsher policies applied to them personally. They are prisoners who broke out of solitary confinement and are now in the area for the general population of inmates. They celebrate and whoop it up a lot, but they are still Scientologists. They are hopelessly locked into a minefield--or should we say mindfield?

An Indie has new hope again. The same exact "new hope" they had hundreds of times before when they were in the COS. The wins are the worn out teddy bear or smallish scrap of blanket that goes everywhere with them.

One day they might toss it aside, who knows.

actually i'm sure large numbers of stuents have just one day gone on to the next thing in their lives with no looking back, scant trauma and perhaps better for the experience

 

[Commander Birdsong]

A very thoughtful and terrific post.

What might help to understand the process of "Leaving Scientology" is to understand that it is the reverse of getting into Scientology.

Each step forward onto and forward on "The Bridge" is a PROBLEM followed by a SOLUTION, or more accurately a HOPED-FOR SOLUTION. Someone enters Scientology to fix or improve something they think can be better. Scientology offers them the promise and hope and one embarks. Now this is the part one needs to follow closely......

Each step of the way, Scientology DOES NOT WORK. And the person is given the NEXT SOLUTION, typically their next step higher on the Grade Chart. The person is gotten to brush aside their reservations and try the next step, always hoping that it will work. It never works.

I can hear the outcry now, "But it does work sometimes!!!" No, it never works, nobody goes Clear. Nobody goes exterior with full perception. Nobody goes OT. What Scientologists are talking about are other minor EFFECTS that they experience, that's what they call "wins". The actual abilities of Clear and OT are never obtained by anyone, ever.

Scientology always has a SOLUTION to why a person is still "aberrated" and "effect" of their life or some part of it. They are masters at keeping the spark of hope alive. And people do not want to give up their dream of immortality and mastery of all life that easily.

I think of Scientology as a mine field. When you have ventured into one, your best bet is to stop and very, very carefully retrace your steps backwards.

For a Scientologist leaving the Church, they have taken but ONE step backwards in a 100 yard minefield. 99 yards to go to return to the safety and sanity of their own life.

Someone rejecting the COS and COB is a red herring. Much is made of someone "leaving" but there are two different and distinct phenomena.

1) SOMEONE LEAVING SCIENTOLOGY

2) SOMEONE LEAVING THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY


A person who leaves the COS is like a patient in a hospital who leaves the surgery room and is wheeled into intensive care. They are still in the hospital and still gravely ill, surviving moment to moment with the aid of doctors, nurses and diagnostic technology.

Indie Scientologists are simply Scientologists who said they don't want to be regged so much or don't want Hubbard's harsher policies applied to them personally. They are prisoners who broke out of solitary confinement and are now in the area for the general population of inmates. They celebrate and whoop it up a lot, but they are still Scientologists. They are hopelessly locked into a minefield--or should we say mindfield?

An Indie has new hope again. The same exact "new hope" they had hundreds of times before when they were in the COS. The wins are the worn out teddy bear or smallish scrap of blanket that goes everywhere with them.

One day they might toss it aside, who knows.

if you would...

how do you and/or any others who flatly state it just doesn't work - ever account or somone like me?

i was only "active" a little more than three years, early spring '71 - last spring '74 and have since just gone on as a hippie cabdriver/bohemian artist

i have been abused by GO/OSA and suffer te extreme bitterness of CoS and greg wilhere's contribution to the wrongful death of my son

and yet...

i enthusiasticlly endorse auditing and auditor training and though i m but an ARC straightrazor release have a ton of "OT" stories to tell

p.s. ad hom response no problem

 

[Free Being Me]

actually i'm sure large numbers of [STRIKE]stuents[/STRIKE] victims have just [STRIKE]one day gone on[/STRIKE] been milked for all they're worth to [STRIKE]the next thing in their lives[/STRIKE] seek counseling and legal action with [STRIKE]no looking back[/STRIKE] bewilderment at being conned, [STRIKE]scant trauma[/STRIKE] with Disconnection, RPF, Fair Game, Forced Abortions, Drained Financially, Psychological Manipulation, No Super Powers and perhaps [STRIKE]better for the experience[/STRIKE] thanking LCon for what was surely done for that persons bests interests.

FIFY

 

[Commander Birdsong]

FIFY

gee...

you wouldn't be trying to put words in my mouth would you?

p.s. what's FIFY?

 

[Lermanet_com]

if you would...

how do you and/or any others who flatly state it just doesn't work - ever account or somone like me?

i was only "active" a little more than three years, early spring '71 - last spring '74 and have since just gone on as a hippie cabdriver/bohemian artist

i have been abused by GO/OSA and suffer te extreme bitterness of CoS and greg wilhere's contribution to the wrongful death of my son

and yet...

i enthusiasticlly endorse auditing and auditor training and though i m but an ARC straightrazor release have a ton of "OT" stories to tell

p.s. ad hom response no problem

I'll take this one!!!

--------

Hypnosis WORKS!

 

[Anonycat]

gee...

you wouldn't be trying to put words in my mouth would you?

p.s. what's FIFY?

Fixed it for you.

 

[Free Being Me]

gee...

you wouldn't be trying to put words in my mouth would you?

p.s. what's FIFY?

Pointing out cognitive dissonance

 

[Anonycat]

I'll take this one!!!

--------

Hypnosis WORKS!

An OT friend, who was on the ship with Ron, went from the cult directly into Hypnotism. I'll try to find you in chat to discuss, AL.

 

[Smilla]

if you would...

how do you and/or any others who flatly state it just doesn't work - ever account or somone like me?

i was only "active" a little more than three years, early spring '71 - last spring '74 and have since just gone on as a hippie cabdriver/bohemian artist

i have been abused by GO/OSA and suffer te extreme bitterness of CoS and greg wilhere's contribution to the wrongful death of my son

and yet...

i enthusiasticlly endorse auditing and auditor training and though i m but an ARC straightrazor release have a ton of "OT" stories to tell

p.s. ad hom response no problem

I'll give you an honest answer.

I think you are a lovely person with a big heart, who cares about other people, and wants to help them.

I give 100% of the credit for that to you.

Hubbard gets 0%.

Hubbard wasn't half the man you are.

That's my honest answer.

 

[Lermanet_com]

An OT friend, who was on the ship with Ron, went from the cult directly into Hypnotism. I'll try to find you in chat to discuss, AL.

Deputy Commodore Hana Eltringham with Hubbard in a passage of the ship he mutters

"It's all just hypnotism."

 

[Anonycat]

I'll give you an honest answer.

I think you are a lovely person with a big heart, who cares about other people, and wants to help them.

I give 100% of the credit for that to you.

Hubbard gets 0%.

Hubbard wasn't half the man you are.

That's my honest answer.

Very sweet, and true.

 

[Anonycat]

Deputy Commodore Hana Eltringham with Hubbard in a passage of the ship he mutters

"It's all just hypnotism."

I know who actually opened an office in a major city with that service, upon leaving the SO and the cult.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Pointing out cognitive dissonance

incorrect indication

 

[Commander Birdsong]

I'll take this one!!!

--------

Hypnosis WORKS!

please amigo...

trance state wears off in a few days at most

i'm talking a 38 yyear database

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Deputy Commodore Hana Eltringham with Hubbard in a passage of the ship he mutters

"It's all just hypnotism."

maybe it was for him (?)

i do what i do

and i have quite an interesting data base...

 

[Anonycat]

please amigo...

trance state wears off in a few days at most

i'm talking a 38 yyear database

You caught the important part CB; people get mind-fucked for years, decades, or for life from scientology. This is one of its most despicable and insidious side effects.

 

[Lermanet_com]

please amigo...

trance state wears off in a few days at most

i'm talking a 38 yyear database

did yah read the link?

Imagine a Letter from Hubbard

 

[Free Being Me]

actually i'm sure large numbers of [STRIKE]stuents[/STRIKE] victims [STRIKE]have just one day gone on[/STRIKE] been milked for all they're worth to [STRIKE]the next thing in theirlives[/STRIKE] seek counseling and legal action [STRIKE]with no looking back[/STRIKE] bewilderment at being conned, scant trauma with Disconnection, RPF, Fair Game, Forced Abortions, Drained Financially, Psychological Manipulation, No Super Powers and perhaps [STRIKE]better for the experience[/STRIKE] thanking LCon for what was surely done for that persons bests interests.

if you would...

how do you and/or any others who flatly state it just doesn't work - ever account or somone like me?

i was only "active" a little more than three years, early spring '71 - last spring '74 and have since just gone on as a hippie cabdriver/bohemian artist

i have been abused by GO/OSA and suffer te extreme bitterness of CoS and greg wilhere's contribution to the wrongful death of my son

and yet...

i enthusiasticlly endorse auditing and auditor training and though i m but an ARC straightrazor release have a ton of "OT" stories to tell

p.s. ad hom response no problem

Pointing out cognitive dissonance

incorrect indication

Not at all. You claiming Hubbard's auditing works while denouncing his practices at the same time is so conflicted. I pointed out cognitive dissonance yet perhaps a more accurate term would be Post Traumatic Hubbard Disorder. Hubbard wasn't out to help anyone but himself and I believe you're missing an important point about him and a blind spot you have in this regard.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

actually i'm sure large numbers of stuents have just one day gone on to the next thing in their lives with no looking back, scant trauma and perhaps better for the experience

I agree with you completely here, Commander.

By the way, I'm assuming when you say, "Perhaps better for the experience" that's code for being disconnected from their families, spending time on the RPF, being psychologically tortured by invasive auditing and sec checks, drained of finances, forced into debt, harassed to come back to the church, called at home and work, stalked, threatened, rejected by friends and family who are still in the church, handled, chased, suffering from PTSD, suffering from malnutrition in some cases, suffering from lack of medical care in some cases, requiring therapy, experiencing depression and suicidal ideology, night terrors, coerced into having abortions, lacking proper schooling, denied minimum wage, deprived of sleep, exposed to physical violence as victim and witness, forced imprisonment, public humiliation, sexual abused, overboarded, denied psychological and therapeutic care, blamed for being sick, pressured into making stats, denied proper hygienic conditions, forced to work on holidays, encouraged to spy on others, having mental breakdowns, and conditions leading to death. I guess this is Scientology's equivalent of "Son, the Army will make a man out of you."

Good stuff, Commander.

 

[Anonycat]

I agree with you completely here, Commander.

By the way, I'm assuming when you say, "Perhaps better for the experience" that's code for being disconnected from their families, spending time on the RPF, being psychologically tortured by invasive auditing and sec checks, drained of finances, forced into debt, harassed to come back to the church, called at home and work, stalked, threatened, rejected by friends and family who are still in the church, handled, chased, suffering from PTSD, suffering from malnutrition in some cases, suffering from lack of medical care in some cases, requiring therapy, experiencing depression and suicidal ideology, night terrors, coerced into having abortions, lacking proper schooling, denied minimum wage, deprived of sleep, exposed to physical violence as victim and witness, forced imprisonment, public humiliation, sexual abused, overboarded, denied psychological and therapeutic care, blamed for being sick, pressured into making stats, denied proper hygienic conditions, forced to work on holidays, encouraged to spy on others, having mental breakdowns, and conditions leading to death. I guess this is Scientology's equivalent of "Son, the Army will make a man out of you."

Good stuff, Commander.

To me, in regarding exes, I have found that every possible shade is the outcome. And, in my limited perspective, I saw that people who were "in" for a few weeks, or a few decades, there is no measuring stick for gauging the after-effect.

I haven't seen any uniformity.