Is Tommy Davis out?

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
You know..it's a symptom of the human condition to exercise bad judgement & do stupid things, to regret it, take responsibility for it and live one's life totally opposite to what they were like before.

We've seen it in former addicts, ex-cons, politicians, and more celebrities that you can count on your hand. I have a friend, now retired, who used to be a prison counselor to Leslie Van Houten, who was convicted with her cult "guru" Charles Manson for the murder of a Los Angeles couple. She went to prison at age 20 and 42 years later still sits in prison, denied parole 20 times.

My friend said Leslie is one of the most nicest, genuine & sincere people she's ever met. She was naive & gullible when she met Charles Manson and became a member of his "family". Though she actually only stabbed one victim, Rosemary LaBianca, she was alsi held criminally responsible for killing her husband.

In the time she's been in prison.. guards, therapists and parole board members have recognized her for being a reformed individual, very remorseful of her actions, and has been a model prisoner earning 5 college degrees.. yet for all the positive she has accomplished, she will probably die in prison, not because she killed a woman, but because she committed the act while a member of the Manson family.

I have a very different view of Tommy that many do. Hopefully, we wakes up to the sewage pond he's been swimming in for decades, climb out, clean himself up, and live his life totally contrary to the pile of manure we known as Scientology.

I know he can do it. Tommy needs to take the first step though.

You get it. Thanks.
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
Sadly, Jess waited too long to be treated with competent medical care and she's now paying the price.

Ms. Feshbach, if you're reading this, I implore you to buy a good juicer and read "pH Miracles" by Robert and Shelley Young. Same for anyone else who's seriously ill or wants to remain seriously healthy. If you've chosen chemo, this will not interfere (could make it even more effective), but check with doctor first in case your situation is unique.

Now everyone please postulate recovery and health for Ms. Feshbach. I do believe in the power of postulates, especially when done en masse.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think he actually is a good person who became a prat by anti-social deeds. I also believe that he confronted what he has done he could overcome the evil and become a human being again. I hope so.

Mostly I would like to see someone leave and publicly confess everything, and actually show that they feel sorry for what they did. Oh! and tell everything!

I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be nice.

Yeah, it sure ain't gonna happen with Marty and Mike.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
I admit that I enjoyed seeing him roasted by the media, but in the end he's a victim who joined with the best intentions. He has blown before, so let's hope he can take this opportunity to find some moments to think about how his life in the SO turned out compared to the promises that were made before he signed that rotten contract.

Tommy Davis blew??? He needed the money!

Pete
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Ms. Feshbach, if you're reading this, I implore you to buy a good juicer and read "pH Miracles" by Robert and Shelley Young. Same for anyone else who's seriously ill or wants to remain seriously healthy. If you've chosen chemo, this will not interfere (could make it even more effective), but check with doctor first in case your situation is unique.

Some have called the Young's quack doctors. I would not go that far, but they have produced no verifiable research to show that what they promote is beneficial in helping those with cancer or other terminal illnesses. But, you're free to believe what you want, just as the Scilons that believe auditing & vitamins cure cancer. :duh:

"Research supporting alkaline diets, like that promoted by Young, is limited to in vitro and animal studies. A number of recent systematic reviews and meta-analyses in the medical literature have concluded that there is no evidence that alkaline diets are beneficial to humans.

According to the National Council Against Health Fraud, a 2005 MEDLINE search indicated that Young had not published any research in recognized scientific journals."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_O._Young
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Tommy Davis blew??? He needed the money!

LOL. Seriously, the cult couldn't hire enough attorneys to force Tommy to sign a NDA. He has the $$ to hire an entourage of attorneys & it would hardly make a mark in his bank account.

DM knows this. I suspect the only way DM could remove any means for Tommy to quit the cult & talk is to end him.
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
Some have called the Young's quack doctors. I would not go that far, but they have produced no verifiable research to show that what they promote is beneficial in helping those with cancer or other terminal illnesses. But, you're free to believe what you want, just as the Scilons that believe auditing & vitamins cure cancer. :duh:

"Research supporting alkaline diets, like that promoted by Young, is limited to in vitro and animal studies. A number of recent systematic reviews and meta-analyses in the medical literature have concluded that there is no evidence that alkaline diets are beneficial to humans.

According to the National Council Against Health Fraud, a 2005 MEDLINE search indicated that Young had not published any research in recognized scientific journals."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_O._Young

There is a plethora of evidence supporting the contention that pathogens can only thrive in an acidic environment. While Wikipedia is sometimes helpful, it is far from an authority on these matters and is often over-represented by naysayers with an agenda (isn't Scn Inc banned from editing for that very reason?).

The medical industry is "for profit", and evil as it may sound, actual cures are not very profitable, nor are "treatments" that can be self-administered. Yes, I know... that's what Hubbard said and you think everything Hubbard said must be boloney, right? Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I've been researching health and nutrition for 20 years and have used my own body as a laboratory. By following my suggestions, others have cured themselves of severe asthma, extremely high blood pressure, and obesity, among other things. I don't do things exactly like the Youngs (for example, I never "alkalize" my water), and there is more to optimal health than just a balanced pH. But the healthfulness of that balance is a fact as far as I am concerned, and one of the most important facets of maintaining good health. The very high alkaline diet is only necessary to balance the pH of the very acidic everyday American. Once that is accomplished, it is best that his diet be just slightly more alkaline than acidic to maintain the balance, in this layperson's opinion.

Medical journals mean very little to me, as the medical community is largely clueless about nutrition and generally tends to be over trusting of false data "learned" in med school, which generally includes very little on the subject of nutrition.

Before you rush to the doctor for the next vaccine that "everyone must have", do your own research on its contents and effects on the brain and body. You might be surprised at what you discover.

Admit it, Smurf... What really scares you is someone taking your burger & fries away:yes:. I know it is important to "make me wrong" because my life wasn't ruined by Scientology, but this isn't about me, it's about a dying woman and others in poor health.

Following my own advice, I can't even remember what it's like to be sick. What sort of person would I be to withhold that knowledge from others?
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I hope Tommy and Jessica can break free of the cult. While under cult control they come off as cold, cruel and ignorant (or worse not ignorant and they forwarding CI they no to be a lie anyway) but I never lack sympathy for those born into the cult and never "chose" Scientology, instead being spoon fed and brainwashed from their earliest memories by their parents that Scientology is the only way.

Unfortunately, that group of "born in" includes DM and he's tricky but I think he is a natural born sadist I can't have much sympathy for him. What I think he demonstrates is a cruel sadist can grow powerful, learn to be more cruel and reach the pinnacle of power only in a group who is fouled and evil at its core - i.e. Scientology. Had it not been for Scientology DM might be a petty thug behind bars or at best a middling salesman, constantly losing jobs and wives due to an uncontrollable temper..but thanks to CoS he's lord and master over the lives of 1,000's of SO members, lives a life of luxury and has billions at his disposal. I do wonder how bad off (compared to him today) DM would be w/o CoS - would normal society helped keep some of his baser impulses in check? Without CoS training would he be as cruel and violent? I can't imagine his Ronbot parents were that empathetic or at tentative to Davey, then joining the SO at 15 or so only made the situation infinitely worse.

Instead of helping, improving or even punishing someone with violent tendencies, uncontrollable rage, sadistic behavior and lacking empathy Scientology has rewarded and nurtured those traits - that's the real crime of CoS.

It's also why have deep mistrust for those who have reached high positions of power within the CoS, brainwashing aside you have to have some natural talents for stepping over and crushing others to reach the elite levels of power within the cult.



Scientology making the evil more evil, making sadists more powerful.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
There is a plethora of evidence supporting the contention that pathogens can only thrive in an acidic environment. While Wikipedia is sometimes helpful, it is far from an authority on these matters and is often over-represented by naysayers with an agenda (isn't Scn Inc banned from editing for that very reason?).

snip

Admit it, Smurf... What really scares you is someone taking your burger & fries away:yes:. I know it is important to "make me wrong" because my life wasn't ruined by Scientology, but this isn't about me, it's about a dying woman and others in poor health.

Following my own advice, I can't even remember what it's like to be sick. What sort of person would I be to withhold that knowledge from others?

Delusional people believe in delusional things. There are hundreds of people claiming all sorts of cures for all sorts of ailments, and research or study to prove it. Yet, because you want to believe it's true, you feel a responsibility to share it to others?

FYI.. I don't eat red meat or french fries. By the way, there are those that believe if you focus on a photo of Guru Siyah, one can be healed of cancer. Maybe, you should share that with others as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO0jRdjdIws
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
There is a plethora of evidence supporting the contention that pathogens can only thrive in an acidic environment. While Wikipedia is sometimes helpful, it is far from an authority on these matters and is often over-represented by naysayers with an agenda (isn't Scn Inc banned from editing for that very reason?)....

I dont think anyone disagrees that good nutrition plays a key role in good health and can help ill people heal. However if these juices and so forth you promote were so effective Im not sure why so many health nuts are dead.

Placebo effect is VERY powerful, more powerful than real medicine sometimes. People make the error in believing placebo means it's false or didn't really work, which isn't true - placebo effect can mean it worked but not because of some chemical properties but because the person believed it would or other reasons.

I'm always kind of taken aback when people who were conned by Scientology, and were then able to see it for what it truly is, go on to promote some other scheme as a "cure all" or totally effective when it lacks real, significant scientific data. It seems the CoS fallacy of "if it's true for you..." still applies when you think something that worked or was beneficial to you must automatically mean it will work miracles for everyone!

We rely on the scientific method, with stable results that can be repeated for a reason - it's the best we have for proof or fact in this world. Personal antidotes or statistically insignificant results are viewed with skepticism for a reason.

Obviously someone ill with cancer needs to follow a healthy diet and stay strong, no medical doctor would argue with that, but that is not going to cure their cancer 99% of the time. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have died because they chose to follow some scientifically unproven homeopathic remedy rather than medically established treatments. Unfortunately you only hear about the relative handful of people who managed to go into remission following some homeopathic cure on websites and forums which promote them.

Steve Jobs felt his decision to try some highly touted homeopathic remedies for the first few months after he was first diagnosised with cancer probably cost him his life. Had he aggressively fought his cancer with traditional medical methods from day one he may have survived. Sadly, those critical first months he wasted on "alternative treatments" hoping to avoid the admittedly very serious and painful surgeries traditional medicine urged him to do. (He said his fear of surgery and the life altering results of said surgeries he desperately wanted to avoid played a major role in his initial decision to pursue alt treatments. Later on he viewed the side effects of the recommended surgeries as a small price to pay for survival).

So when someone like Jobs, who was highly intelligent and had the money and connections to get the very best kind of nutrition and homeopathic therapies eschews them because they didn't work people should pay attention. At least pay more attention than to the 2 people on a alternative medicine website swearing some exotic fruit juice cured them of cancer.

It's just dangerous to promote or think of something as a cure all for everyone when there is little in the way of real proof. I think it gets people, like me, who have watched loved ones die slowly of terminal cancer, angry when someone who pipes up (knowing 0 about the medical facts of her case) declares if she just got herself a juicer and started eating right she would be fit as a fiddle in no time!

It's ignorant and dangerous talk, especially when you are dealing with a population of people (cancer patients & their families) who are scared and desperate for answers or anyone who will tell them what they want to hear - which is we can cure this, they will live. doctors are extremely pragmatic and don't like to give false expectations and ethically can't make promises of cures or results. Unfortunately, charlatans and even well meaning people don't usually don't show the same restraint and will say those magic words families so badly want to hear.

The traditional medical establishment isn't perfect and they certainly don't have all the answers but the at least we know the answers and therapies they do offer have statistically known, relevant, tested results. For now it's the best we got and the survival rates for cancer have been steadily climbing thanks to their difficult, arduously tested, research.

As long as alternative therapies don't interfere or take the place of real medical advice and treatment, I see no harm and possibly benefit. But it becomes a problem when these medically untested therapies are promoted as "the answer," give false hope or encourage people to ignore medical advice or treatment in favor of their methods.

(FYI When a friend of mine had cancer and explored alt treatments far too many on the surface would say follow Dr. advice, but as she got deeper into it things changed to "well you can't expect this to really work like it should because of all those poisons from chemotherapy in your body, if you'd cleanse yourself of the poisons and then do our method then it would def work." This was the case with a lot of the homeopathic and alternative therapies out there - if results were lacking it was implied it must be due to the harmful western medicine your are using and going 100% homeopathic was the only real way.)
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I know so many old people with cancer, all doing fine and they've had it for years. All of them each crap food too.

I don't think the crap food caused their cancers, I do think that the chemo radiation and drugs have kept them alive. Improved diet might help them to be even healthier.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I know so many old people with cancer, all doing fine and they've had it for years. All of them each crap food too.

I don't think the crap food caused their cancers, I do think that the chemo radiation and drugs have kept them alive. Improved diet might help them to be even healthier.

I know a proven cure for cancer.

There was an old Italian woman who my mother (a nurse) used to give painkiller shots for her cancer. She was at least 85 years old and had been told she had less than six months to live.

Mrs. Cheepa would send my mother over with home-cooked meals she made for us. They tasted terrible - apparently she'd lost her sense of taste. If we weren't starving, my mother would dump them out and lie to her, telling her how much we appreciated it.

So she made more.

And her cooking - well, somewhere along the line it started tasting GOOD!!

We never left a scrap of her spaghetti anymore. Mrs. Cheepa was getting better! Her spaghetti and pastas were scrumptious! We were addicted and couldn't get enough!! Mom, tell Mrs. Cheepa to make more! we cried.

Then her daughter visited and she was really feeling good. She asked to stop the painkiller shots. She was walking and puttering in her garden again. The cancer went into remission for many, many years. Mrs. Cheepa might have been 100 when she finally died.

Cooking homemade Italian spaghetti is a proven cure for cancer by actual case history as long as you believe someone is eating it and enjoying it. And eventually they will, and so will you. :biggrin:

(true story!)

[video=youtube;-JytbHDRG0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JytbHDRG0U[/video]
 

TheRealNoUser

Patron with Honors
I don't what all this cancer treatment nonsense that you're all spouting is about. The cure for cancer is perfectly simple. LRH wrote about this long ago:
_____________________________

"Cancer has been eradicated by auditing out conception and mitosis."

L.Ron Hubbard.

_____________________________

Now can we all just get back to the subject.

P.S. Someone had better tell Tommy that LRH has already developed the tech for his problem.
 
Last edited:

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I don't what all this cancer treatment nonsense that you're all spouting is about. The cure for cancer is perfectly simple. LRH wrote about this long ago:
_____________________________

"Cancer has been eradicated by auditing out conception and mitosis."

L.Ron Hubbard.

_____________________________

Now can we all just get back to the subject.

P.S. Someone had better tell Tommy that LRH has already developed the tech for his problem.


There's got to be something seriously wrong with me, I can't remember my conception at all! , NO! I don't think I want to see what my dad's orgasm face looked like. :melodramatic:
 

rhansrider

Patron with Honors
As Dara O'Briain said: Yes, herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years. Then we tested it and the stuff that worked became "medicine".
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
I dont think anyone disagrees that good nutrition plays a key role in good health and can help ill people heal. However if these juices and so forth you promote were so effective Im not sure why so many health nuts are dead.

Placebo effect is VERY powerful, more powerful than real medicine sometimes. People make the error in believing placebo means it's false or didn't really work, which isn't true - placebo effect can mean it worked but not because of some chemical properties but because the person believed it would or other reasons.

I'm always kind of taken aback when people who were conned by Scientology, and were then able to see it for what it truly is, go on to promote some other scheme as a "cure all" or totally effective when it lacks real, significant scientific data. It seems the CoS fallacy of "if it's true for you..." still applies when you think something that worked or was beneficial to you must automatically mean it will work miracles for everyone!

We rely on the scientific method, with stable results that can be repeated for a reason - it's the best we have for proof or fact in this world. Personal antidotes or statistically insignificant results are viewed with skepticism for a reason.

Obviously someone ill with cancer needs to follow a healthy diet and stay strong, no medical doctor would argue with that, but that is not going to cure their cancer 99% of the time. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have died because they chose to follow some scientifically unproven homeopathic remedy rather than medically established treatments. Unfortunately you only hear about the relative handful of people who managed to go into remission following some homeopathic cure on websites and forums which promote them.

Steve Jobs felt his decision to try some highly touted homeopathic remedies for the first few months after he was first diagnosised with cancer probably cost him his life. Had he aggressively fought his cancer with traditional medical methods from day one he may have survived. Sadly, those critical first months he wasted on "alternative treatments" hoping to avoid the admittedly very serious and painful surgeries traditional medicine urged him to do. (He said his fear of surgery and the life altering results of said surgeries he desperately wanted to avoid played a major role in his initial decision to pursue alt treatments. Later on he viewed the side effects of the recommended surgeries as a small price to pay for survival).

So when someone like Jobs, who was highly intelligent and had the money and connections to get the very best kind of nutrition and homeopathic therapies eschews them because they didn't work people should pay attention. At least pay more attention than to the 2 people on a alternative medicine website swearing some exotic fruit juice cured them of cancer.

It's just dangerous to promote or think of something as a cure all for everyone when there is little in the way of real proof. I think it gets people, like me, who have watched loved ones die slowly of terminal cancer, angry when someone who pipes up (knowing 0 about the medical facts of her case) declares if she just got herself a juicer and started eating right she would be fit as a fiddle in no time!

It's ignorant and dangerous talk, especially when you are dealing with a population of people (cancer patients & their families) who are scared and desperate for answers or anyone who will tell them what they want to hear - which is we can cure this, they will live. doctors are extremely pragmatic and don't like to give false expectations and ethically can't make promises of cures or results. Unfortunately, charlatans and even well meaning people don't usually don't show the same restraint and will say those magic words families so badly want to hear.

The traditional medical establishment isn't perfect and they certainly don't have all the answers but the at least we know the answers and therapies they do offer have statistically known, relevant, tested results. For now it's the best we got and the survival rates for cancer have been steadily climbing thanks to their difficult, arduously tested, research.

As long as alternative therapies don't interfere or take the place of real medical advice and treatment, I see no harm and possibly benefit. But it becomes a problem when these medically untested therapies are promoted as "the answer," give false hope or encourage people to ignore medical advice or treatment in favor of their methods.

(FYI When a friend of mine had cancer and explored alt treatments far too many on the surface would say follow Dr. advice, but as she got deeper into it things changed to "well you can't expect this to really work like it should because of all those poisons from chemotherapy in your body, if you'd cleanse yourself of the poisons and then do our method then it would def work." This was the case with a lot of the homeopathic and alternative therapies out there - if results were lacking it was implied it must be due to the harmful western medicine your are using and going 100% homeopathic was the only real way.)

Health nuts die because eventually human bodies tend to die, although it is my opinion that some do die prematurely because they think it is healthful to consistently overexert the body (marathon runners etc.). It’s safe to say no one ever died from fresh vegetables and juices, unless, of course, they consumed contaminated produce, but let me know when you find the fountain of youth.

You might also want to read my post more closely as I never suggest abandoning conventional treatment. To the contrary, I said a healthy diet won't impede chemo and could make it even more effective, thus implying that chemo can be effective.

To suggest that consuming fresh produce with all its organic and easily assimilated nutrients is irresponsible advice for a cancer patient is absurd. Even if ineffective as an 100% cure (as are all treatments to date, whether or not sanctioned by the AMA), a healthy body is simply more able to cure itself, and more able to effectively utilize whatever supplementation western medicine has to offer.

I have personally witnessed so-called “medical miracles” in those rare souls with the discipline to stick to a predominantly raw diet devoid of processed foods, and with an eye toward bringing the otherwise acidic body into a more balanced state. I never promoted it as the only way to cure a particular ailment, but it is foolish to suggest such an approach is akin to being “conned" by religion, or the acts of a "charlatan".

I continue to hope and pray that Ms. Feshbach gets well, as did Good Twin and other awesome people on this board. If my experiences can help with that, then that's great. If not, then I hope and pray that whatever approach she takes will work for her. Selective compassion is not my game - suffering is suffering, and there is nothing a person could do that would make me feel differently about that... not even that loathesome crime of practicing the religion of one's choice.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
You might also want to read my post more closely as I never suggest abandoning conventional treatment. To the contrary, I said a healthy diet won't impede chemo and could make it even more effective, thus implying that chemo can be effective. .....

You might want to take your own advice. I repeatedly said no one would deny a sensible diet and good nutrition weren't important components of healthy living or trying to fight an illness like cancer - in fact I made this statement in various ways 3 separate times in my previous post.


To suggest that consuming fresh produce with all its organic and easily assimilated nutrients is irresponsible advice for a cancer patient is absurd. ....

I agree and NO ONE has said anything to the contrary in this thread, so I don't get your point except your trying imply people are saying otherwise - they are not.

I continue to hope and pray that Ms. Feshbach gets well, as did Good Twin and other awesome people on this board. If my experiences can help with that, then that's great. If not, then I hope and pray that whatever approach she takes will work for her. Selective compassion is not my game - suffering is suffering, and there is nothing a person could do that would make me feel differently about that... not even that loathesome crime of practicing the religion of one's choice.

Because those who questioned you pushing some questionable advice/ sources from some website doctors don't have compassion?? What is that statement even supposed to mean? I don't think one single person here isn't sympathetic to Jessica's plight or doesn't want her to recover somehow.

I'm not sure you bothered to read anything I posted before so here is the TL/DR version for you, since I admit it was long and wordy:

Homeopathic therapies are fine as long as they don't impede or interfere with sound medical advice. Good nutrition is great but it's not a miracle cure for everything, even if you proclaim you can't even remember what sickness is due to your magically eating. Problem is cancer patients and their families are desperate and will cling to anything to try and save a life. All too often these "alternative therapies" speak in absolutes, make promises and give false hope to patients which can cause lost time and lots of needless suffering.

Here are some of your quotes that made red flags go up for me:

The medical industry is "for profit", and evil as it may sound, actual cures are not very profitable, nor are "treatments" that can be self-administered.

So obviously the entire medical industry is evil and not to be trusted because they only care about money. So does this mean you're better off listening to quacks who give away their advice for free?

By following my suggestions, others have cured themselves of severe asthma, extremely high blood pressure, and obesity, among other things.

You have magically cured others of diseases via your nutritional wisdom. (I could even believe high blood pressure and obesity, because losing weight will help eradicate those conditions -- but severe asthma? Maybe you should give DM a call, dianetics didn't do the trick for him, maybe you'll have better luck...

Medical journals mean very little to me, as the medical community is largely clueless about nutrition and generally tends to be over trusting of false data "learned" in med school,

Right those dumb asses writing meaningless "medical journals" lol what do they know! Obviously Doctors don't have 20 years of expert experience in the "laboratory" of your body to become nutrition experts to the world at large.....

Oh and all the lies they are taught in those dumb medical schools full of science. pshaw! I mean they should at home and teach themselves like you, right? Oh, I forgot Doctors are incapable of doing that, they are just programmed direct from medical school and know nothing outside of its scope. Doctors couldn't possibly read or learn about nutrition outside of medical school, like you do. I never see doctors railing against fast food and transfat, they probably think its good for you.

Following my own advice, I can't even remember what it's like to be sick.

I'm sure if you were exposed to ebola virus you would quickly remember.


Ok...and that's it for me derailing the thread any further. Cancer is on topic, so is the way cancer patients are treated within CoS, but arguing about the pros and cons of traditional vs homeopathic treatment of cancer is not. So that's the end of my essays on the subject.
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
[video=youtube;-JytbHDRG0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JytbHDRG0U[/video]
:clap::clap::clap:

I used to sing this to my grandchildren (and children) when they were little, accompanying myself on the piano!

This guy does it way better than me. When my grandchildren come along, I'm gonna do it with an Italian accent! :omg:
 
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