iScientology.org - A new home for Independent Scientology?

[I told you I was trouble]

Try and keep up peoples (if you still care) .... the 'new start/fight' has been moved to a new thread.





http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29088-Non-CofS-Scientology

 

[Claire Swazey]

Claire,

I just saw this. I know we've agreed to move forward but you keep talking about personal attacks against you coming from me. Yet, you were the one who said that Smilla called me a "word clown", which she didn't, and now you're saying to Infinite that I should stay on target as if I'm all over the place by defending myself. I don't like that.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Originally Posted by Xenu's Boyfriend

Mark,

Claire expresses dismay that people were so "hurt" by your withholds comment, as if 'hurt" had anything to do with it, and then tells me I'm putting words in her mouth.


Claire, you wrote in response: I did no such thing.

But in Post #275 prior to this you wrote to Mark:

What I found odd was this deep hurt that was expressed because you said "withhold". Like it was the same as stripping someone of their assets, family, and stuck 'em behind a fence with inward facing spikes, like the magnitude would be the same.

Seems like an overreaction to me.

But, you know, now that you've said "GPM", it's a matter of time til someone says I said it...

Shall I start the countdown?

My point is, here you are dismissive and sarcastic about something I took very seriously. That is what I call a mind-fuck. Because you knew at this point that I was very upset with what Mark said to me and you disingenuously acted like you were unaware of what a contentious subject this had become, and then you chose to ridicule it. Sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with two Claire's: one who says, "Give Peace a Chance", and the other who sends SCUD missiles.

I am perfectly willing to move forward, but this is what I'm talking about that I'd like to stop.

It takes two,(FIFY)

XB

The posts where I suggested moving forward were the latest posts. The ones you are quoting here preceded those.

 

[Claire Swazey]

iScientology.org

Random excerpts of interest:

http://www.iscientology.org/faq

http://www.iscientology.org/about-us/management

http://www.iscientology.org/about-us/beliefs

Marty's post announcing iScientology.org :

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/iscientology-org/

Ok, so at this point, the way to get on track is to discuss the thread op.

I think that having a place, of sorts, where one can go to study Scn outside CofS is a good thing for those who need it. It's a cyber org, it's not gonna hurt anything.

Marty's recommendation, though, could give it a bad reputation. There are those who don't really have any reservations about non CofS Scn, as such, but who mistrust Marty.

So that was interesting.

Another thing that occurs to me is that this could be a stepping stone for some people who are considering leaving but aren't sure or who just left the cult but feel lost without being able to be into it in some way.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

Scientology = Scientology

LOVE IT. That's probably the wisest thing anyone has said in this entire thread, and I'm not joking.

 

[Free to shine]

EDITED TO ADD:

Free to shine, I am not accusing you of this, but I'd like to make a general observation. I see a lot of people on ESMB and WWP who have a priori, preconceived, fixed ideas about Marty and the various, and diverse, Independents and Progressive Scientologists, who don't actually LOOK. Who take pride in the fact, and indeed announce, that they DO NOT ready Marty's blog, that they CAN'T STAND to read Marty's blog, etc. If so, then how can such a person make considered, rational, analytical, factually based judgments?

.

I can only answer for myself, and although I am not accused, I am still mentioned.
I have read a lot of Marty's blog, enough to know that it is now a rare day indeed that I venture there.

It doesn't take much exposure to be able to identify the mechanisms in use. And for someone (like me) with a vast amount of experience of almost every type and level of scientologist there is, in and out, I stand by my judgment, as I am sure others do too. Marty may be doing some damage to Miscavige, he may provide what appears a "safe space" for the newly out, but he is just another version of the same old song. And it will always be so until those deep rooted mind control concepts are become aware of.

 

[OperatingSP]

Marty's recommendation, though, could give it a bad reputation. There are those who don't really have any reservations about non CofS Scn, as such, but who mistrust Marty.

One interesting thing is that I don't know that he has endorsed it, or at least not publicly. I found the link in a comment on his site, which we know are moderated. But: (1) he hasn't included it in his Blogroll or otherwise posted about it; and (2) he (or someone) also approved my comment concerning the Progressive Scientology Facebook Page (much to Michael Hobson's [Sneakster's] subsequent consternation and distress).

 

[Smilla]

To return to the original topic of the thread:

Being as Scientology's 'Clears' and 'OT's' are utterly unremarkable and can't do anything better than any ordinary person you meet on the street, I consider the selling of 'Clear' and 'OT' to be a deliberate fraud.

People who sit atop Hubbard's bridge. are no healthier, cleverer, gifted, creative or able than anybody else. In fact, many of them are damaged and worse off mentally, physically, emotionally and financially than they were before they were sucked in and sucker-punched by Hubbard's scam.

They might think they are superior, but thinking doesn't make it so.

"Grandiose delusions (GD) or delusions of grandeur is principally a subtype of delusional disorder that occurs in patients suffering from a wide range of mental illnesses, including two-thirds of patients in manic state of bipolar disorder, half of those with schizophrenia and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders. GDs are characterized by fantastical beliefs that one is famous, omnipotent, wealthy, or otherwise very powerful. The delusions are generally fantastic and typically have a supernatural, science-fictional, or religious theme."

(Emphasis mine.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

Being as the states of 'Clear' and 'OT' don't exist, selling them to people is clear and knowing fraud.

In the United States, common law recognizes nine elements constituting fraud:

1. a representation of an existing fact;
2. its materiality;
3. its falsity;
4. the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;
5. the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
6. the plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;
7. the plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;
8. the plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and
9. consequent damages suffered by the plaintiff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#United_States

So iScientology.org is simply a new perpetrator of the fraud.

Buyer beware.

 

[OperatingSP]

Ok, so at this point, the way to get on track is to discuss the thread op.

You may also want to look at:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...r-Independent-Scientology&p=741574#post741574
.

 

[Claire Swazey]

One interesting thing is that I don't know that he has endorsed it, or at least not publicly. I found the link in a comment on his site, which we know are moderated. But: (1) he hasn't included it in his Blogroll or otherwise posted about it; and (2) he (or someone) also approved my comment concerning the Progressive Scientology Facebook Page (much to Michael Hobson's [Sneakster's] subsequent consternation and distress).

Ah, that's interesting. Sneaks was mad at you? Well, I think your posts are good.

 

[Claire Swazey]

In a humble effort to perhaps get this thread back on track, I will toss out the following data from iScientology.org -

http://www.iscientology.org/about-us/training/training-in-the-independent-field


The Couresroom Email: [email protected]

And while I made a separate thread on the separate website for Independent Scientology Checksheets, the Independent Checksheets Foundation, I will also note the following on iScientology.org -

http://www.iscientology.org/about-us/training/training-in-the-independent-field
Any comments on the prices?

Any comments on the Checksheets?

Any comments on the content of this post?

Any comments on the contents of the iScientology.org website?

Any comments on the what the
iScientology.org website actually says (even if you don't believe it, hopefully giving some reasons and/or evidence why you don't believe it), as opposed to Independent Scientology in general, the Freezone, Marty.

Having the checksheets available is the antithesis, IMO, of the way CofS does it. Can't see any harm in it.

 

[MissWog]

The fact of the matter is that whenever conversation casts Non-Cof$ Scientology in a bad light, the same people jump in with a tag-team effort to create a distracting commotion, and kill the thread.

It's plain to see on many many threads.

Oh my god that just soooo true!

I've been reading/lurking on and off for years.. Pretty much daily the last 9mos. I feel kinda cheap being such a voyeur ..but.. I couldn't keep up to well due to life & schedule.. Anyway, I appreciate all your thoughts and I've gone DEEP into many many old threads.

I've got a couple questions about this iScientology effort.. Let's see if anyone can help..

Is this considered a church like say a Baptist church in a home basement? Or a self help group? Or is that the plan to become recognized as church?

I like to climb my mountains one step and a time..

So before I go any farther what is the tax situation going to be for those involved? Auditors, trainiers, leaders, parishioners, property taxes.. All of it..? Does that make sense what I am asking?
Thanks for any thoughts!
Smiles!
Miss

Any comments on the prices?
Yes, my church (that I was raised in didn't charge prices..it was free even for weeknight study groups. It was up to parishioners to give when they could and that was between you and God. I was raised Presbyterian

Any comments on the Checksheets?
They remind me of something I would get in college as a semester long assignment

Any comments on the content of this post?
Thank you for asking posting it! I hope to actually see a nonCo$ Sciontologist explain the financial model and answer my questions

Any comments on the contents of the iScientology.org website?
It's pretty and I like the logo?. They should have registered iscientology.com while they were at it.

Any comments on the what the iScientology.org website actually says (even if you don't believe it, hopefully giving some reasons and/or evidence why you don't believe it), as opposed to Independent Scientology in general, the Freezone, Marty.

I think it greats they are telling people how to change the batteries to the meters
I get the whole reason for "it's 1950s All Over Again" but I don't know how they can say that when I can't imagine anyone is left that was an adult at that age and qualified to make that claim.. So it kinda looses creditably with me.

These are just fast answers to get the ball rolling.. I'm tired, my eyes hurt and I've been reading this site all day mostly. I nearly 100 pages of Candy's Video thread done.. Another 20 pages on the Old Days Apollo thread and few others for good measure.

Much appreciation for taking in another outsider who is frustrated to see this abuse in her community.. xoxo.. Oh, and I'm on my iPad so I can't do too much and multiple post quotes so I'm hope it's ok that I formatted this post the way it is

 

[Claire Swazey]

AFAIK, no one's referring to it as a church or seeking tax exemption. I think the people in the non CofS Scn scene who would do something like that probably are the ones who want to see a revamped reformed CofS- and that group already has the tax exemption, for now, at any rate.

Just how it seems to me.

 

[Smilla]

Oh my god that just soooo true!

I've been reading/lurking on and off for years.. Pretty much daily the last 9mos. I feel kinda cheap being such a voyeur ..but.. I couldn't keep up to well due to life & schedule.. Anyway, I appreciate all your thoughts and I've gone DEEP into many many old threads.

I've got a couple questions about this iScientology effort.. Let's see if anyone can help..

Is this considered a church like say a Baptist church in a home basement? Or a self help group? Or is that the plan to become recognized as church?

I like to climb my mountains one step and a time..

So before I go any farther what is the tax situation going to be for those involved? Auditors, trainiers, leaders, parishioners, property taxes.. All of it..? Does that make sense what I am asking?
Thanks for any thoughts!
Smiles!
Miss

Any comments on the prices?
Yes, my church (that I was raised in didn't charge prices..it was free even for weeknight study groups. It was up to parishioners to give when they could and that was between you and God. I was raised Presbyterian

Any comments on the Checksheets?
They remind me of something I would get in college as a semester long assignment

Any comments on the content of this post?
Thank you for asking posting it! I hope to actually see a nonCo$ Sciontologist explain the financial model and answer my questions

Any comments on the contents of the iScientology.org website?
It's pretty and I like the logo?. They should have registered iscientology.com while they were at it.

Any comments on the what the iScientology.org website actually says (even if you don't believe it, hopefully giving some reasons and/or evidence why you don't believe it), as opposed to Independent Scientology in general, the Freezone, Marty.

I think it greats they are telling people how to change the batteries to the meters
I get the whole reason for "it's 1950s All Over Again" but I don't know how they can say that when I can't imagine anyone is left that was an adult at that age and qualified to make that claim.. So it kinda looses creditably with me.

These are just fast answers to get the ball rolling.. I'm tired, my eyes hurt and I've been reading this site all day mostly. I nearly 100 pages of Candy's Video thread done.. Another 20 pages on the Old Days Apollo thread and few others for good measure.

Much appreciation for taking in another outsider who is frustrated to see this abuse in her community.. xoxo.. Oh, and I'm on my iPad so I can't do too much and multiple post quotes so I'm hope it's ok that I formatted this post the way it is

Glad to see that you're posting

 

[sallydannce]

Try and keep up peoples (if you still care) .... the 'new start/fight' has been moved to a new thread.





http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29088-Non-CofS-Scientology

Hey I'm trying to keep up but I got distracted with my colouring in. :wink2:

I'd like to say more about this flash new web site for the "independents" but I tend to get all fired up about the mechanisms of mind-control Hubbard-style and then I get all pissy and profound and bore the shit out of myself.

Anyone for a nice dose of black and white thinking? It won't hurt a bit...

I am so OVER black and white circular thinking! It opens the door to abuse and enabling cruelty. Oh I promised myself I wouldn't go here...

I'm gonna go back to colouring-in...:wink2:

 

[Smilla]

I suspect that what we will be seeing more of in the near future is fighting over the not-quite-dead carcass of the Cof$, as different factions try to grab as big a piece of the action as they can.

Marty's sub-cult has already quietly placed the [STRIKE]Free[/STRIKE]Zone in the 'beneath contempt' category reserved for squirrels, and he won't be very happy about iscientology taking a piece of his action either. How's he gonna pay for his beef jerky and chewing tobacco if people poach his peeps?

There is no honour amongst thieves.

Iscientology have posted a few words on their website that say much:

"One cannot get case gain if one is connected to a suppressive person or group, and inside the Church you have exactly that — intense suppression. Ignore that connection at your peril and today many Scientologists have gotten sick and died because they tried to move up the Bridge inside a flagrantly suppressive organization."

"There are squirrels outside and some of that is even the direct causation of the Church's Office of Special Affairs (based on the theory that if people don't get standard tech the activities will fail). So do your due diligence and check with others to verify your auditor's reputation and that he does delivery only Standard Tech and nothing but Standard Tech."

(Emphasis mine.)

The implications are obvious and not good.

 

[OperatingSP]

I've got a couple questions about this iScientology effort.. Let's see if anyone can help..

Is this considered a church like say a Baptist church in a home basement? Or a self help group? Or is that the plan to become recognized as church?

AFAIK, no one's referring to it as a church or seeking tax exemption. I think the people in the non CofS Scn scene who would do something like that probably are the ones who want to see a revamped reformed CofS- and that group already has the tax exemption, for now, at any rate.

I almost made a mistake about this, and had to double-check, because I have recently made separate posts about three different Independent Scientology websites: iScientology.org , Independent Training Center, and the Independent Checksheet Foundation.

It turns out that the Independent Training Center represents:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are a church, organized as a not-for-profit corporation.[/FONT]

http://indietrainingla.org/PHILOSOPHY.html

iScientology.org is silent on the issue, which makes sense since it appears to be a portal or gateway to other organizations. iScientology.org itself does not appear to offer any religious or spiritual services.

Please note that despite the fact that these sites have the word "Indepdendent" in the title, they appear to be separate and represent separate persons or organizations. One thing I find interesting is that if, and to the extent, the Independent Scientology Movement grows churches, it appears they will be governed by congregational polity -- i.e., the complete opposite of the corporate Church of Scientology.

/

 

[OperatingSP]

Marty's sub-cult has already quietly placed the [STRIKE]Free[/STRIKE]Zone in the 'beneath contempt' category reserved for squirrels, and he won't be very happy about iscientology taking a piece of his action either.

Marty has endorsed iScientology.org:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/iscientology-org/

If I said above Marty hadn't, I apologize. It is the Independent Training Center that he has not endorsed, or at least not yet. (I have to do a better job of both differentiating and keeping track of the various Indepedent Scientology websites, "Orgs," etc.)

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

One interesting thing is that I don't know that he has endorsed it, or at least not publicly. I found the link in a comment on his site, which we know are moderated. But: (1) he hasn't included it in his Blogroll or otherwise posted about it; and (2) he (or someone) also approved my comment concerning the Progressive Scientology Facebook Page (much to Michael Hobson's [Sneakster's] subsequent consternation and distress).

I thought that they posted a link to Marty's blog on iScientology.org, as well as giving his book a huge promotion on their front page. I feel that Marty is all over it. In fact, I would venture to say that Marty is the COB of the Independent Scientology movement. I'm not saying I believe that's the way it should be, but I am an outsider, and in all the videos I watch on YouTube, Marty is the go-to guy when someone wants to talk about the alternatives to being inside the CoS. Perhaps someone needs to start a completely different faction of Independent Scientology and branch off from the Rathbun influence.

I've heard Marty talk about Bare Faced Messiah being a hatchet job on Hubbard, and how Sec Checks can be helpful in terms of navigating one's moral compass. I felt depressed, because this doesn't sound like real change. The question is, can there even be Independent Scientology or is that an oxy-moron, as it is a such a group-focused entity? I'm going to look at the site more to learn about it, but it is clear from the LRH quotes, they are taking a very reverential tone. They say, "LRH wasn't perfect, but he wasn't a psychopath like DM...." or something to that effect.

No, he was actually a greedy, pathological narcissistic, paranoid schizophrenic with megalomaniacal tendencies...

 

[looker]

Well anyway, Im following a lot of you guys that refer to the stuff that works....I had some 14 Hrs with a well known "free Scientologist auditor" and the first 5 hrs were just what I needed as a old Scientologist in need of repair. It got off lots of grief and sadness from a childhood experience of the next door neighbor committing suicide when I was 4. I did feel relief from that since I know it was real.

Aftr that it was Identity processing which was. An incident where I was a pilot or observing a pilot in RAF the year 1937, Where I was flying not observantly and caused a crash of a wing man, my best friend. Not looking back and his wing was under mine coming in low. We both crashed out of gas his face looking to me for a solution. I had none. I was an idiot. That was the word that stuck I was an Idiot.
\
I apologised in session and I could feel some relief.

My Cog was maybe thats why I don't have close friends today because I can't trust my senses.

This was traumatic to me and my friend.

BTW: Whether this was real or not, I felt somewhat better after discussing it. It doesn't mean it's Scientology It just means some one was there listening.

Its good and sometimes fun to listen to our friends.

Bless you who do listen.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

To return to the original topic of the thread:

Being as Scientology's 'Clears' and 'OT's' are utterly unremarkable and can't do anything better than any ordinary person you meet on the street, I consider the selling of 'Clear' and 'OT' to be a deliberate fraud.

People who sit atop Hubbard's bridge. are no healthier, cleverer, gifted, creative or able than anybody else. In fact, many of them are damaged and worse off mentally, physically, emotionally and financially than they were before they were sucked in and sucker-punched by Hubbard's scam.

They might think they are superior, but thinking doesn't make it so.

"Grandiose delusions (GD) or delusions of grandeur is principally a subtype of delusional disorder that occurs in patients suffering from a wide range of mental illnesses, including two-thirds of patients in manic state of bipolar disorder, half of those with schizophrenia and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders. GDs are characterized by fantastical beliefs that one is famous, omnipotent, wealthy, or otherwise very powerful. The delusions are generally fantastic and typically have a supernatural, science-fictional, or religious theme."

(Emphasis mine.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

Being as the states of 'Clear' and 'OT' don't exist, selling them to people is clear and knowing fraud.

In the United States, common law recognizes nine elements constituting fraud:

1. a representation of an existing fact;
2. its materiality;
3. its falsity;
4. the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;
5. the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
6. the plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;
7. the plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;
8. the plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and
9. consequent damages suffered by the plaintiff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud#United_States

So iScientology.org is simply a new perpetrator of the fraud.

Buyer beware.

I appreciate your bottom line here, Smilla. It's a powerful argument. It's like an organization selling "Enlightenment." It's not even a path to Enlightenment, but Enlightenment itself.

I've heard people say, even Scientology's strongest critics like Tory/Magoo will say she got something out of the communication course. People are attracted. Still, I think I have to agree with you. Suggesting that you can sell "Clear" seems fraudulent to me.