It started out so good…

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
ROUTING OFF STAFF OF MIAMI ORG​

After the fall of the Mighty Miami Org and living through the ensuing nightmare, about six months later I went back to my own doubts about being on staff. After much personal debate, I decided I was going to route off staff. There were many factors in my decision – I didn’t feel comfortable enough with the tech to fetch hundreds of dollars an hour for my services, no outside life, no girlfriend, no money, no end in sight!

Just one example, amongst others, that made me not want to be on staff​

There was a guy who scraped together every spare dime he had to get Life Repair. I had studied with him in the academy on some course while he did a basic course and got to know him. He worked, non-union, on oil rigs making like $6 an hour. He was married and his wife can’t believe he spent a couple thousand dollars to get Life Repair. No Reg had told him one intensive (12.5 hours) of auditing probably wasn’t going to be enough. Guess he’d have so many wins he would “make it go right” to finish his Life Repair program. He had read DMSMH and did a basic course and was regged to buy one intensive. Basically, he and his wife’s entire savings. He was so green (new) that he had read about touch assists and had tried to give himself one. So, this guy has a PTP – a present time problem, his wife didn’t want him to spend their savings. He was so blown away by reading Dianetics, that he did anyways. So, he is told he is PTS (a Potential Trouble Source due to his wife being antagonistic) that he needed something before his Life Repair. Not a PTS/SP course in the academy but a PTS/CS1 in session! That is, he would get indoctrinated about Suppressive Persons and being connected to them (PTS) for hundreds of dollars an hour. So, I’m the auditor and told the D of P that this isn’t what the guy should be doing, he doesn’t have any other money, that he won’t get wins enough on it to keep going, etc. Well, I was being CI! (counter-intention) I was young and naïve and didn’t keep my integrity and took him in session anyway. If I could go back now, I’d love to go back there, tell the D of P to f*ck off and walk out. We must have burned through most of his 12.5 hours (he thought he would fix his life and be super happy and able after Life Repair) on PTS/CS1 and SCN/CS1 (indoctrinated into basics of Scientology and auditing). About a month later, he was routing through on a refund cycle. I was happy for him getting his money back but of course I was quite sad that I helped damn him for the rest of eternity – no bridge. I was of course, partially responsible. Now, I do feel responsible – and it feels better.

THINGS THAT SHOULDN’T BE​

Okay, I lied. Here’s a few other examples.

This same D of P a few months later had a notice put up on the Org bulletin board by the Ethics Officer. It was a non-enturbulation order (don’t stir the soup, please). He was married to another staff member. It said he had been TALKING TO HIS WIFE about when his contract was over that he didn’t want to be on staff and basically wanting to see what she wanted to do, too. You know, discussing life plans with his life partner. Being the good little staff member, she wrote a knowledge report to Ethics about her husband. You can’t talk about leaving staff (even if your contract will be over) otherwise, it’s violating the policy about Leaving and Leaves – if you talk about leaving you can be Declared. Okay, that’s crazy in itself. But now everyone in the Org knows the D of P wants to route off staff after his contract is up. Gotta love policy.

There was the annual Auditor’s night event. Being a staff auditor, it should have been fun and free food. Oops; sorry. I had an out of town PC and had to take him in session that Saturday night instead. All right; that’s fine. To Clear the planet and all. I found out later from someone at the event, that all staff auditors were given a little bonus. Some more than others based on WDAH (well done auditing hours the year before). I think the most was $75 or so. I asked about it afterwards. I was told by I think the LC (LRH Communicator for Org) that I should have gotten $25 but the bonus money envelopes disappeared. When I whined about it (not a fortune but $25 for a staff member was a real bonus in 1982), I was told in unkind words, that it wasn’t her fault (although she was in charge of the money) and that I should have been there to get it. WTF?

A female staff member that was married and had a two year old son decided to do something for “the greatest good for the greatest number”. She was offered a position at FOLO (a higher up Org in New York that helped run lower Orgs - Flag Operations Liason Office). So she divorced her husband and left her two year old with him to raise in Miami so she could run off to New York. And both Miami and FOLO agreed this was okay. BTW, just a few years ago, I saw that this kid who had been abandoned by his mother was a grown up Sea Org member at Flag. To me, this is so, so sad – that a mother could do this and that Scientology simply didn’t care. I know the Dad and he was always a really nice guy. But I’m sure while he was on staff he didn’t spend much time with his son – and I’m sure the son went into the Sea Org pretty young.

There was another staff member of several years, who I think was mildly retarded, very short, overweight and looked like he had some slight case of Down’s syndrome or something. He did some sort of MEST post – fairly simple tasks. Nice guy but no clue how he was qualed for staff and certainly he was never going to move up the bridge. I heard he inherited a little money from his mom – or she gave it to him or something. What did he do? Of course, bought some auditing! He was in his early twenties and never had a girlfriend. He was getting life repair and there was one thing they had him do. Since his ruin was still being a virgin, the auditor (not me) had to get some pictures of naked women from a Playboy magazine or something. She put the pictures up on the meter shield and he had to do “reach and withdraw” (touching and letting go of the pictures with his hands) with these pictures in session – paying hundreds of dollars an hour to do so. Maybe some can argue this was good; to me, it was absurd to use good money looking at porn in session.

It’s easy to look back at all of these things and see how ridiculous or sad or crazy they were. At the time, I just assumed I didn’t know enough about life to properly evaluate them or figured I’d understand as I went further up the bridge or something. The one about the abandoned little boy really bothered me - and still does.

Actually routing off staff​

I told the correct terminal (can’t remember who – Ethics officer maybe?) that I wanted to route off staff. This was in February of 1983. I was taken off post right away and started to do MEST work around the Org and other tasks. Of course, I couldn’t tell anyone I was routing off staff but it was obvious something was up. One of the steps was to get a confessional by a staff auditor. Now, looking back I was extremely lucky – I got one after about two months of painting, cleaning and doing other work around the Org. I had been persistent and got an auditor. I got it done within a few sessions. I had my comm. Ev (committee of evidence – an “impartial hearing” by staff members to apply justice). Whenever someone routes off staff, they have to get a comm. Ev. Again, looking back I was lucky to get one within a month or so. The staff members of the committee were not happy. This had to be done after post at night. Instead of going home by 10:30 p.m., they had to stay until after midnight.

BEST FRIENDS FOR LIFE​

There were many charges on my Comm. Ev. One of them said, “financial irregularities”. I had no idea what this could have been. I didn’t get to see specific charges or evidence; just generalities until my “trial”. The financial irregularities were I had left a bank statement laying out in MY APARTMENT amongst MY personal things. The Knowledge report had been written up by one of my roommates of about two years. It said I had over $800 in the bank. That was my financial irregularity. I guess staff members weren’t allowed to have money. In all fairness, my committee of peers pretty much just shook their heads and dismissed that ridiculous charge. The point is that my roommate turned on me because I was routing off staff and tried to find something to get me in trouble. I mean, we had been friends and roommates for two years! We had gotten along good and liked each other. Geesh.

HAPPY TIMES - sort of​

I was doing MEST work (RPF) for about four months before I eventually left – more on that in a bit. But, looking back, it was some of the best times I ever had on staff. The other folks I worked with were also trying to route off staff. They were just as happy and relieved as I was, too. The work wasn’t bad, I didn’t feel the weigh of the entire uncleared planet on my shoulders so it was almost fun hanging out with fellow staff members painting and such. But I was so ready to move on with my life. I did feel like I was a prisoner waiting for my release.

The end of endless routing off staff routing form​

Well, my confessional was done, my Comm. Ev was done (which basically didn’t say anything – just that I was routing off staff – no particular recommendations – strange), I knew my Freeloader debt – about $14,500. Later reduced for one complete year of staff contract by 20%. Why wasn’t I free to go? I never got the okay to leave. I don’t quite remember exactly what steps were left to do but it stalled.

Then I read a FOLO (from NY) newsletter. In it, some hot shot exec talked about people who were trying to route off staff. He stated that, “…anyone trying to route off staff will either decide to get back on post or will be Declared”. No sheet. I’m not lying. How many policies does that violate? But I looked at it with a sense of relief, not doom. I knew this long game of routing off was coming to an end. I know, I know – it took some people five years trying to route off – only to be Declared anyways. Around the same time, I had been TR3ing the LC about my routing form. I had been stalled for no apparent reason and it was in her hands. Now, I don’t remember if it was part of her hat as an LC or if she was holding some other post from above. Anyways, she wrote a report to Ethics and next thing I know I was talking to the E/O. He wrote the following order, I am quoting it, too. I saved it for all these years – it was my prison release papers – 13 June 1983.

“[Tookmeawhile] is to report to FOLO. He is not to put any enturbulation on staff or public. He has a time machine of 1 week to be up there. He is not to be in the Org for any reason. Chief E/O for CMO Missionaire.”

For some reason, I wasn’t too concerned about being Declared. No, I didn’t report to FOLO. I mean, I had DONE the routing form. This order was my ticket to freedom! Basically, the Org said they were done with me. Oh and go to FOLO. Yeah, right.

FREEDOM​

I had my car, about four boxes of personal items along with some clothes and of course, if you were paying attention, my $800.00. I had to pack up my stuff while my two roommates were on post. It didn’t take too long. I left them a note saying thank you and goodbye, paid rent through end of the month and I hit the road!

EXHILIRATION​

I won’t make this part too long. I just have to try to convey how it felt to be free!!!! Only a staff member can know how it feels to be off staff. I was 22 years old, no idea about my future or anything. I was heading back home to Chicago to live with my sister until I found a place to live. Thanks, sis! I stayed there three weeks then got my own place. Oh…my…God – my own place! The first time in my life. And it was after two years on staff. It took me a little while to find a job but I enjoyed the heck out of life. I didn’t really do anything. I destimmed. Oh how good it felt. No staff meetings, constant work or study or anything. I could just be and chill. Ahh…

One time, about a month into my decompression cycle, my phone rang. It was the Ethics Officer from Miami Org. I could hear the background noises of the Org. Phones ringing, people talking, etc. It was like I was right there. That sick feeling came over me – and yet it felt good. I knew I was here and that was there. He asked me how I was doing and that I needed to start paying off my freeloader’s debt. He wasn’t mean but not particularly nice. Kind of cold - he was just doing his job. I remember reading some policy that as long as you at least make an attempt to pay it off, they won’t send it to a collection agency. I don’t know how true that was, but I sent them $50. A small price for freedom. After I hung up, the sense of relief was even stronger. It was still there (the Org and that life) – and I was here. Over a thousand miles away!
 
Last edited:

Wisened One

Crusader
Hi Everybody. Well, I got my repayment from Flag – over $18,000.00 a couple of months ago. My kids finished summer school at a Scientology school and I’ve asked for my repayment from my local Org. Time to continue on with my story. I’m not quite prepared to give my name yet but the Org that I was on staff at was Miami Org from ’81 to ’83.

The International Finance Police​


Where I left off my story was I had just gotten back from Flag, was settling back at home in Coral Gables, Florida (the Miami Org isn’t actually in Miami, it’s in Coral Gables; a nice area) and not liking being on post/study/meetings/wog job all the time it seemed. So I had some doubts in me head. I can’t place the time of year but the Int Finance Police came in the Org one night…

(Yeah, I agree, Coral Gables was a nice area!:)

Most of us staffers didn’t know who they were or what they were doing at Miami Org. The Org was number 1 in the birthday game for Class V Orgs two years in a row. It was always buzzing with activity. There were many outer Org trainees on course (helped stats) and many local public. There was about four or five Sea Org Int Finance Police and they gathered all the staff in the Academy after course – around 10:30 or 11:00 p.m. Everyone was chit-chatting, waiting for ALL staff to arrive, everyone curious, a bit nervous, but okay. I’m sure that wasn’t really the case for everyone – I’m sure their reputation preceeded them.

MIGHTY MIAMI ORG WAS NOT MIGHTY EVER AGAIN​

After a while, this guy who I believe was Don Larson was the main Police Officer, stood in the center of the room (in the large academy) and asked nicely if everyone was here. After a while, some Org staff said everyone was present. He said something like, “we’re going to get started then”. We all became quiet and he began...

He immediately went from a friendly enough looking guy to an angry a-hole. The intention this guy had was very piercing. He pointed his finger towards all of our thetans and screamed something like, “You’re all out-ethics. You’re ripping off Scientology. Your executives are stealing money and are immediately Declared!” (I apologize – this isn’t word for word but close enough.) He then screamed out four names, I’m not sure on all of them but two he said were “Dave Tropf!!!! (the ED – nicest guy), Gary Bottorff (OES – biggest a-hole according to other staff – I never dealt with him) and the others. They were immediately “arrested” – taken into a separate room for interrogation by his deputies. We all had to stay and write up Knowledge Reports. We were all in shock. I can’t convey the magnitude of how engramic, how nightmarish, this all was. The Mighty Miami Org had just been destroyed! It had taken decades to build it up and it was ruined in a few sentences from the infamous Int Finace Police. (There is plenty on the internet about Don Larson; just google “Don Larson Scientology” – he got Declared himself later.)

(I was on Staff there from around late '91, early '92-'95...didn't know or meet Dave Tropf. Mark Witt was acting ED until Cat Fox returned from OEC/FEBC.

But I did know/work with Gary Bottorff! And while he had a nice side to him, he DEFINTELY could be an ahole,too!! :grouch: )


NINE LIVES​

Everyone was in shock; we were all sharing a major, major, major 3rd dynamic engram. If a bomb had exploded and killed fifty people in the course room that night it wouldn’t have felt much worse. From my bad memory, I believe four were Declared that night, several others in the following weeks and many more staff left (many getting Declared in the process). Declare orders were read out loud in morning staff meetings on an almost daily basis of someone new. These Declares said how Miami had falsified their stats by these execs, gave themselves extra book bonuses or something and that Miami Org was a “veritable Peyton Place” (lot’s of out 2D). A year earlier or so, Dave Tropf had been given “Kha Kahn” status from upper management (you get a symbolic 10 lives – you can make 10 HUGE mistakes or suppressive acts and just lose a life and continue on post basically). I remember a few months or year earlier, for some reason or another, he lost one life. Apparently he lost nine lives at once by the Int Finance Police.

MAY WE NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN​

In the coming months, everyone was stuck in this incident and trying to keep going despite it all. There were some truly awesome, fantastic staff at that Org. There were, I don’t know, at least 45 full time and 70 part time staffers. I’m probably being very conservative with the numbers. I would say we lost about a third of the staff in a few weeks. Many of them very strong, stable terminals – some really, really nice and very competent people. We lost so many Execs and division Secretaries. Granted, many “stuck it out” but the Mighty Miami was never the same again.

That was simply it. Not much more to tell. Miami Org and all its stats were probably cut in half. Eventually, the Org moved on, some of the Declared folks came back but not too many. Apparently this was duplicated across many Scientology Organizations. The good old days, not just at the Miami Org but most Missions and Orgs, were gone. If Scientology ever had a golden era, IMHO it was the ‘70’s to early ‘80’s. And even then it was far from ideal. Maybe the question is when was it not so frickin’ horrible. I guess it depends on one’s perspective as far as what was the best time for Scientology. One thing’s for sure – it isn’t now!

(Yeah, heard about all the out 2-D that went on, lol. Musta been crazy around there at that time!)

Thank you for sharing more of your story! It's fascinating to hear how MM Org did from those times! By the time hubby and I joined, it was limping along trying to recover from those days....

Please continue! :drama:
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
TookMeAwhile,

I think routing off of staff may be one of the worst parts of Scio. When your unsure about whether or not to join staff it's "just sign the contract for 21/2 yrs. and route out after that time-no big deal". THEN, it's "what? You're not resigning? You are a DB,in Treason, Counter CI intendioned bitch!!!! The harrassement, the phone calls, the "stake outs" (I'm sure many of you know what I mean).

And the worst part, one day it hits you, your fellow staff members who are pummelling you to resign are so fuckin unhappy themselves they just can't bear to see you get out.

Like my dad said "you never hear a fly stuck on a fly strip yell "get out-it's a trap" to the other flies buzzin around.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
... He asked me how I was doing and that I needed to start paying off my freeloader’s debt. He wasn’t mean but not particularly nice. Kind of cold - he was just doing his job. I remember reading some policy that as long as you at least make an attempt to pay it off, they won’t send it to a collection agency. I don’t know how true that was, but I sent them $50. A small price for freedom...!

Hi TMA

I haven't read your whole story, just this last page of the thread, so don't know how long you've been out or how much of your debt you've paid, wanted to tell you that:

Your freeloader debt is NOT a legal debt in the world outside scientology. You are under no legal obligation to pay it, ever.

If you choose NOT to pay the debt, it will not affect your life outside of scientology in any way at all. It will not show up on any credit report or affect your credit rating. No US law can be used to collect it. (Of course, the CoS will harass you about it, but they have no legal standing in doing so.)

The freeloader debt is ONLY "valid" within the world of the CoS -- that is, they use it as a way to make you conform to their rules by keeping you "disconnected" from family, friends, and unable to continue "up the Bridge" (as though you would want to...) until you've paid it.

Just for your info and anyone else reading this thread.

I agree with you regarding the two-year-old child being abandoned -- that's the WORST! Adults, even young adults, are free to choose their life path and it's not really for another to judge, even if you think they're being stupid. But a toddler has no choice. Now that the kid is grown, yet another casualty of scientology -- wonder what he/she would have chosen had the parents created a loving environment where personal choice was encouraged and supported ...

Glad to see you out and enjoying life.
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
Hi TMA

I haven't read your whole story, just this last page of the thread, so don't know how long you've been out or how much of your debt you've paid, wanted to tell you that:

Your freeloader debt is NOT a legal debt in the world outside scientology. You are under no legal obligation to pay it, ever.

If you choose NOT to pay the debt, it will not affect your life outside of scientology in any way at all. It will not show up on any credit report or affect your credit rating. No US law can be used to collect it. (Of course, the CoS will harass you about it, but they have no legal standing in doing so.)

The freeloader debt is ONLY "valid" within the world of the CoS -- that is, they use it as a way to make you conform to their rules by keeping you "disconnected" from family, friends, and unable to continue "up the Bridge" (as though you would want to...) until you've paid it.

Just for your info and anyone else reading this thread.

I agree with you regarding the two-year-old child being abandoned -- that's the WORST! Adults, even young adults, are free to choose their life path and it's not really for another to judge, even if you think they're being stupid. But a toddler has no choice. Now that the kid is grown, yet another casualty of scientology -- wonder what he/she would have chosen had the parents created a loving environment where personal choice was encouraged and supported ...

Glad to see you out and enjoying life.

Actually, my freeloader debt was from 1983. I long ago paid it and did many, many services after that. But I was always curious if it was considered a legal debt. Also, that is helpful for many of us to know - as far as other staff soon to be joining the ranks of "ex-scientologists". Thank you. BTW, do you know that for sure; the Church can't come after ex-staff for any kind of freeloader debts?
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
Actually, my freeloader debt was from 1983. I long ago paid it and did many, many services after that. But I was always curious if it was considered a legal debt. Also, that is helpful for many of us to know - as far as other staff soon to be joining the ranks of "ex-scientologists". Thank you. BTW, do you know that for sure; the Church can't come after ex-staff for any kind of freeloader debts?

The CoS will "come after you" by their well-known tactic of bugging you until you give in, and may use "threats" of sending it to a collection agency, destroying your credit, or whatever -- I'm not sure what all "tactics" they would use, might depend on how much money they stand to collect?

But they have no legal right to that money. It's not a "real" debt, as are mortgages, credit card purchases, car loans, personal loans from banks, etc.

I'm not a lawyer or a banker or credit specialist, so no need to take my word for it -- please do your own independent research. Call up one of those credit report companies and ask someone, or talk to a banker or someone at a loan company.

Just keep in mind that Hubbard was a master at lying and also at exerting his authority over people who believed him, at coercing people to give up their money and their lives to him and his agenda. So before you give up any more money to Hubbard's agenda, make sure you're doing that solely because you choose to do so (whatever your reasons may be) -- not because you fear you'll be in trouble outside the CoS.

I, too, paid my (small) debt back before 1980 and did a little bit of service afterward. I paid it because I wanted to be "onlines" doing services, and because I wanted to "prove" that I was not a deadbeat, that I was a person of integrity.

That was before all the information about scientology was easily available, as it is now. In the same circumstances now, I'd probably choose to do something different with my money.
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
The CoS will "come after you" by their well-known tactic of bugging you until you give in, and may use "threats" of sending it to a collection agency, destroying your credit, or whatever -- I'm not sure what all "tactics" they would use, might depend on how much money they stand to collect?

But they have no legal right to that money. It's not a "real" debt, as are mortgages, credit card purchases, car loans, personal loans from banks, etc.

I'm not a lawyer or a banker or credit specialist, so no need to take my word for it -- please do your own independent research. Call up one of those credit report companies and ask someone, or talk to a banker or someone at a loan company.

Just keep in mind that Hubbard was a master at lying and also at exerting his authority over people who believed him, at coercing people to give up their money and their lives to him and his agenda. So before you give up any more money to Hubbard's agenda, make sure you're doing that solely because you choose to do so (whatever your reasons may be) -- not because you fear you'll be in trouble outside the CoS.

I, too, paid my (small) debt back before 1980 and did a little bit of service afterward. I paid it because I wanted to be "onlines" doing services, and because I wanted to "prove" that I was not a deadbeat, that I was a person of integrity.

That was before all the information about scientology was easily available, as it is now. In the same circumstances now, I'd probably choose to do something different with my money.

I'm glad you started a new thread - it is a very important subject! It is called FREELOADER DEBT and hopefully, someone can click on this to get there... http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=6939.

I had never thought about it as NOT being legal. How silly of me. Thanks for bringing this point up. I did love the fact that once I decided to get out for good, that I got Flag to GIVE ME my money back on account. Of course, I'll get Declared for that, which is utter madness in inself!
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
TookMeAwhile,

I think routing off of staff may be one of the worst parts of Scio. When your unsure about whether or not to join staff it's "just sign the contract for 21/2 yrs. and route out after that time-no big deal". THEN, it's "what? You're not resigning? You are a DB,in Treason, Counter CI intendioned bitch!!!! The harrassement, the phone calls, the "stake outs" (I'm sure many of you know what I mean).

And the worst part, one day it hits you, your fellow staff members who are pummelling you to resign are so fuckin unhappy themselves they just can't bear to see you get out.

Like my dad said "you never hear a fly stuck on a fly strip yell "get out-it's a trap" to the other flies buzzin around.

Thanks for the acks everybody. It's great to share my story and know people understand.

Yes, it is another point of amazement how easy they make it to join staff and how horrible they make you feel if you want to leave. I think you're right, Sandygirl, it's because the fellow staff members are so miserable themselves!

If ANY staff member is reading this (I know, I'm dreamin'), please, just walk away. Bad things won't happen to your thetan - only good things! :thewinner:
 

Wisened One

Crusader
TookMeAwhile,

I think routing off of staff may be one of the worst parts of Scio. When your unsure about whether or not to join staff it's "just sign the contract for 21/2 yrs. and route out after that time-no big deal". THEN, it's "what? You're not resigning? You are a DB,in Treason, Counter CI intendioned bitch!!!! The harrassement, the phone calls, the "stake outs" (I'm sure many of you know what I mean).

Yeah, and they love to say to new people/media...'Oh, we don't hold anyone to their job, they can simply walk out the door anytime they want....everytime I'd hear that, I'd wanna be sick! :puke: :grouch:

Gee, guess hubby and I just felt like sneaking away in the middle of the night for shits and giggles, huh?
And we felt like playin' paranoid freaks looking over our shoulders during the harrowing hours-long wait for our flight to take off.....:eyeroll:

Whatever. :no:
 

Good twin

Floater
TookMeAwhile,

I think routing off of staff may be one of the worst parts of Scio. When your unsure about whether or not to join staff it's "just sign the contract for 21/2 yrs. and route out after that time-no big deal". THEN, it's "what? You're not resigning? You are a DB,in Treason, Counter CI intendioned bitch!!!! The harrassement, the phone calls, the "stake outs" (I'm sure many of you know what I mean).

Yeah, and they love to say to new people/media...'Oh, we don't hold anyone to their job, they can simply walk out the door anytime they want....everytime I'd hear that, I'd wanna be sick! :puke: :grouch:

Gee, guess hubby and I just felt like sneaking away in the middle of the night for shits and giggles, huh?
And we felt like playin' paranoid freaks looking over our shoulders during the harrowing hours-long wait for our flight to take off.....:eyeroll:

Whatever. :no:

Michelle, your escape is the BEST part of your story....................:whistling:
No I don't think you and your spouse are paranoid freaks. I KNOW your Org went lookin for you. Isn't it amazing that your story is typical. That's the strange part for me to wrap my wits around. I thought my history in Scientology was unique. Here I find out we all went trough pretty much the same shit.....amazing. This isn't to make less of anyone's stuff. My Gosh so many of you have survived just horrific injustices and abuses. It's just..... well.... I don't know....I guess I thought I was special. LOL.:yes:
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
Michelle, your escape is the BEST part of your story....................:whistling:
No I don't think you and your spouse are paranoid freaks. I KNOW your Org went lookin for you. Isn't it amazing that your story is typical. That's the strange part for me to wrap my wits around. I thought my history in Scientology was unique. Here I find out we all went trough pretty much the same shit.....amazing. This isn't to make less of anyone's stuff. My Gosh so many of you have survived just horrific injustices and abuses. It's just..... well.... I don't know....I guess I thought I was special. LOL.:yes:

Isn't it just amazing to realize what a horrible cult we were in? It is so true - the internet is slowly killing Scientology. We're all made to think that any trouble or problems we had was unique and something we "pulled in".
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The CoS will "come after you" by their well-known tactic of bugging you until you give in, and may use "threats" of sending it to a collection agency, destroying your credit, or whatever -- I'm not sure what all "tactics" they would use, might depend on how much money they stand to collect?

But they have no legal right to that money. It's not a "real" debt, as are mortgages, credit card purchases, car loans, personal loans from banks, etc.

I'm not a lawyer or a banker or credit specialist, so no need to take my word for it -- please do your own independent research. Call up one of those credit report companies and ask someone, or talk to a banker or someone at a loan company.

Just keep in mind that Hubbard was a master at lying and also at exerting his authority over people who believed him, at coercing people to give up their money and their lives to him and his agenda. So before you give up any more money to Hubbard's agenda, make sure you're doing that solely because you choose to do so (whatever your reasons may be) -- not because you fear you'll be in trouble outside the CoS.

I, too, paid my (small) debt back before 1980 and did a little bit of service afterward. I paid it because I wanted to be "onlines" doing services, and because I wanted to "prove" that I was not a deadbeat, that I was a person of integrity.

That was before all the information about scientology was easily available, as it is now. In the same circumstances now, I'd probably choose to do something different with my money.

I still have a freeloader dept. I've been a scientologist since 1965 or so.
Never had anything except standard letters on the matter and what was owed. Never been harrassed on the matter.

Forget it. They harrass you post it on the net. They are powerless here!
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
Email from a Sea Org member

I was debating whether to start a new thread but this is so common I guess it's not worth it.

Thought I would post an email I sent to a very well known Sea Org member. Her name is B. and she is a Flag Consultant that travels most of the time on tours.

Knowing I'm going to get Declared, I wanted to say thanks for being a friend and good-bye. Just so you know, I'm not upset by her reply, nor shocked. In fact, I expected something like this. But it is sad. I've known her for about twenty years - as an aquaintance and as a friend. I've always liked her and still do.

Here's what I wrote to her:

Subject: I hope this is still a valid email address for you

Hi B.,

Long time no hear from you. I hope you are reading this.

As you probably know, I got my repayment from Flag and will probably be Declared soon enough. It's funny; I was so fearful of that for so many years and now, it doesn't matter.

I wanted to write to you before I get Declared and you wouldn't be able to read any mail from me.

I know this will be the last time we will communicate. I just wanted to say thank you very much for your help when Roxy had her psych break. You were a true friend and helped me a lot. This is mainly what I wanted to say to you.

I hope some day you decide to take a look at both sides of the equation; do a proper evaluation. If you ever decide to leave and you need a friend on the outside, PLEASE feel free to get in touch with me. There are many ex-scientologists that would assist you in many different ways.

Again, thank you very much and I wish you well.



Highest Regards,

tookmeawhile
address
phone number


Here was my reply from her:


Hi tookmeawhile,

Sorry to hear of this. It is really suppressive to invite a productive Sea Org Member to join some squirrel unproductive ‘ex” group. Don’t write me again. I want nothing to do with you. There are many of us actually working to handle and improve this planet. I am sorely disappointed that you have gone against that.

B


Keep in mind, this is going to her [email protected] email address. She had no choice but to write what she did. I am curious what she really would have written if she could. I suspect it would have been similiar but not so harsh. Did I invite her to join some squirrel ex group? Geesh.

I accomplished what I wanted: I said thanks and goodbye and she can reach me if she wants. I understand where she's at. I was there just a few months ago. I pity her so. :console:
 
Last edited:

Good twin

Floater
I was debating whether to start a new thread but this is so common I guess it's not worth it.

Thought I would post an email I sent to a very well known Sea Org member. Her name is B. and she is a Flag Consultant that travels most of the time on tours.

Knowing I'm going to get Declared, I wanted to say thanks for being a friend and good-bye. Just so you know, I'm not upset by her reply, nor shocked. In fact, I expected something like this. But it is sad. I've known her for about twenty years - as an aquaintance and as a friend. I've always liked her and still do.

Here's what I wrote to her:

Subject: I hope this is still a valid email address for you

Hi B.,

Long time no hear from you. I hope you are reading this.

As you probably know, I got my repayment from Flag and will probably be Declared soon enough. It's funny; I was so fearful of that for so many years and now, it doesn't matter.

I wanted to write to you before I get Declared and you wouldn't be able to read any mail from me.

I know this will be the last time we will communicate. I just wanted to say thank you very much for your help when Roxy had her psych break. You were a true friend and helped me a lot. This is mainly what I wanted to say to you.

I hope some day you decide to take a look at both sides of the equation; do a proper evaluation. If you ever decide to leave and you need a friend on the outside, PLEASE feel free to get in touch with me. There are many ex-scientologists that would assist you in many different ways.

Again, thank you very much and I wish you well.



Highest Regards,

tookmeawhile
address
phone number


Here was my reply from her:


Hi tookmeawhile,

Sorry to hear of this. It is really suppressive to invite a productive Sea Org Member to join some squirrel unproductive ‘ex” group. Don’t write me again. I want nothing to do with you. There are many of us actually working to handle and improve this planet. I am sorely disappointed that you have gone against that.

B


Keep in mind, this is going to her [email protected] email address. She had no choice but to write what she did. I am curious what she really would have written if she could. I suspect it would have been similiar but not so harsh. Did I invite her to join some squirrel ex group? Geesh.

I accomplished what I wanted: I said thanks and goodbye and she can reach me if she wants. I understand where she's at. I was there just a few months ago. I pity her so. :console:

OMG. Tookmeawhile, I should write to her too. I know who you are talking about and we were roommates back when she was just a brand new mission staff member. PM me with her email addy.
GT
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
TMA,

You did the right thing by sending that email. If B ever decides to leave she knows she has a terminal on the outside.
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
TMA,

You did the right thing by sending that email. If B ever decides to leave she knows she has a terminal on the outside.

Oh yeah, I do feel good about writing to her. I'd love to hear from her someday or at least hear her say my name, "it sure tookmeawhile" and then scream your name, "but at least ImOut"!!!! :thumbsup:
 
Top