James R. Lewis book Cults - Helping Scinetology rewrite history

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
I like many others wait forlornly for Goldenrod to drop through my letter box.

I've been taken off call in lists and mailing lists.

OSA has a file on me.

OSA has personally knocked on my door and the doors of friends.

So whats the price of tea in China? What are you waffling on about?

You told me personally that scientology had never ever fair gamed you, they had left you alone.

You walk people around St. Hill? A squirrel? Yeah right!

I came across something yesterday that I thought was quite interesting, here ya go:

Founder of est Targeted in Campaign by Scientologists : Religion: Competition for customers is said to be the motive behind effort to discredit Werner Erhard.
December 29, 1991|ROBERT W. WELKOS | TIMES STAFF WRITER

In October of 1989, a private detective was called into the Church of Scientology's offices in Los Angeles and asked to conduct an investigation in Northern California.

Ted Heisig, a non-Scientologist based in Orange County, said he was led into a room and shown five file cabinets filled with documents Scientology had been collecting for years. The subject: Werner Erhard, founder of the worldwide self-awareness movement known as est.

"They had contacts (in the file cabinets) dating back to his childhood days," Heisig recalled.

Many of the documents were written by former est members who had joined Scientology and were then asked to write down anything they knew about Erhard and his organization. Some accused him of having links to neo-Nazis, of possessing bizarre personality disorders, of being a scoundrel posing as a messiah, according to a sworn statement.

Heisig said it was clear from the documents that Scientology was preparing a "media blitz" against Erhard--and that he was going to be a key player, spreading and collecting information that could be used to discredit the est founder.

"The reason, I think it comes down to, is competition," Heisig said. "Since Werner started his est program, he took potential customers . . . away from the church."

The secret campaign against Erhard would span more than a year and become one of the Church of Scientology's top priorities. In Sausalito, where Erhard then lived on a yacht, private detectives spied on him and interviewed scores of disgruntled followers. They dug deeply into records of his personal and financial affairs.

In the end, Erhard received so much notoriety--including a scathing segment on "60 Minutes" last March--that he sold his business and now lives in Costa Rica. Although he blames Scientology for his troubles, it is hard to gauge what the organization actually accomplished behind the scenes because those who know most are not saying.

As Scientology's chief lawyer, Earle C. Cooley, put it: "I'm not going to comment in any way on the use of material that was obtained as a result of the investigation."

One thing, however, is clear: according to Heisig, the Church of Scientology was pleased with the outcome. And no one would have been happier than Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, whose hatred of Erhard was passed along to his followers after his 1986 death.

Hubbard had long held that Erhard, who had dabbled in Scientology, had incorporated some of its teachings into est, making a fortune in the process. Heisig said he was told by Scientology officials that the church had lost millions of dollars because Erhard had lured away potential customers.

Scientology's latest campaign against Erhard was one in a series of efforts by church members to undermine his reputation and movement.

Go here to read more:

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-12-29/news/mn-2102_1_werner-erhard

Sounds a bit like you, Terril.

Trouble is I don't know Erhard, but I know you Teril and you are a liar.

That dictionary you were talking about should really redefine 'LIAR' = scientologist
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Yes!! Scientologist=Liar

And I'm goddamned sick of em!

tumblr_mdrzey04G21qjoecd.gif
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
I'll leave this vid here for anyone in doubt about what $cientology is really doing.

Lawyer Graham Berry Talks About How Scientology Abuses The US Legal System
[video=youtube;qvMoSsuRVW8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvMoSsuRVW8[/video]
 

Terril park

Sponsor
That is your golden rod. No need to wait any more - if they dead file you, it's a done deal. Kinda like the "not there or omitted data" out point. Mimsey

Definitely been deadfiled. However having an OSA B1 file may be
indicative of a declare. Or the same thing.

Of course not really waiting :) Don't give a damn about these Keystone Kops.:)
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
I like many others wait forlornly for Goldenrod to drop through my letter box.

I've been taken off call in lists and mailing lists.

OSA has a file on me.

OSA has personally knocked on my door and the doors of friends.

So whats the price of tea in China? What are you waffling on about?

What am I talking about? Please refer back to the post where I mention you being here is rubbing the trauma back into the faces of the victims. Let's reiterate (although with such a personality we can be here forever and a day trying to reiterate) that the same misinformation is being used on people in the Indie world than in the Church to keep a hold over people. Many individuals here have well documented experiences that Hubbard's intentions in doing things were often contrary to what people believed. David Mayo, Alan Walters, CarmeloOrchards and others have posted in depth about this. These same deceptive tools such as the "only reason why people leave is because of overts-witholds" is keeping people in the abusive relationship, requiring a leader.

You told me personally that scientology had never ever fair gamed you, they had left you alone.

You walk people around St. Hill? A squirrel? Yeah right!

I came across something yesterday that I thought was quite interesting, here ya go:

Founder of est Targeted in Campaign by Scientologists : Religion: Competition for customers is said to be the motive behind effort to discredit Werner Erhard.
December 29, 1991|ROBERT W. WELKOS | TIMES STAFF WRITER

In October of 1989, a private detective was called into the Church of Scientology's offices in Los Angeles and asked to conduct an investigation in Northern California.

Ted Heisig, a non-Scientologist based in Orange County, said he was led into a room and shown five file cabinets filled with documents Scientology had been collecting for years. The subject: Werner Erhard, founder of the worldwide self-awareness movement known as est.

"They had contacts (in the file cabinets) dating back to his childhood days," Heisig recalled.

Many of the documents were written by former est members who had joined Scientology and were then asked to write down anything they knew about Erhard and his organization. Some accused him of having links to neo-Nazis, of possessing bizarre personality disorders, of being a scoundrel posing as a messiah, according to a sworn statement.

Heisig said it was clear from the documents that Scientology was preparing a "media blitz" against Erhard--and that he was going to be a key player, spreading and collecting information that could be used to discredit the est founder.

"The reason, I think it comes down to, is competition," Heisig said. "Since Werner started his est program, he took potential customers . . . away from the church."

The secret campaign against Erhard would span more than a year and become one of the Church of Scientology's top priorities. In Sausalito, where Erhard then lived on a yacht, private detectives spied on him and interviewed scores of disgruntled followers. They dug deeply into records of his personal and financial affairs.

In the end, Erhard received so much notoriety--including a scathing segment on "60 Minutes" last March--that he sold his business and now lives in Costa Rica. Although he blames Scientology for his troubles, it is hard to gauge what the organization actually accomplished behind the scenes because those who know most are not saying.

As Scientology's chief lawyer, Earle C. Cooley, put it: "I'm not going to comment in any way on the use of material that was obtained as a result of the investigation."

One thing, however, is clear: according to Heisig, the Church of Scientology was pleased with the outcome. And no one would have been happier than Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, whose hatred of Erhard was passed along to his followers after his 1986 death.

Hubbard had long held that Erhard, who had dabbled in Scientology, had incorporated some of its teachings into est, making a fortune in the process. Heisig said he was told by Scientology officials that the church had lost millions of dollars because Erhard had lured away potential customers.

Scientology's latest campaign against Erhard was one in a series of efforts by church members to undermine his reputation and movement.

Go here to read more:

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-12-29/news/mn-2102_1_werner-erhard

Sounds a bit like you, Terril.

Trouble is I don't know Erhard, but I know you Teril and you are a liar.

That dictionary you were talking about should really redefine 'LIAR' = scientologist

Sharon, thanks for this! Have you ever read about narcissists/anti-social people and similar disorders? Makes Hubbard's definition in some respects look quite similar. Many people claim to have helped contribute to the Scientology material (and thus it's success and profits), but only one man is source with no sources cited. Erhard was just unfortunate enough to get wound up with such a personality.

I'll leave this vid here for anyone in doubt about what $cientology is really doing.

Lawyer Graham Berry Talks About How Scientology Abuses The US Legal System
[video=youtube;qvMoSsuRVW8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvMoSsuRVW8[/video]

It's time to stop the abuses and allow people to go free. I'm reminded of the idea of a mainframe computer system with one head computer with many other devices built around it. To get information one has to go through the main computer. In an environment when reliance on one source of information of a solid identity is held, all thoughts are processed through the main computer for information. Anything that questions the program which is often simple and linear but seemingly intelligent, gets tossed aside. John Von Neumann helped develop early computers and later a self replicating system used in chemistry and physics. This system was based on the replication in nature.

However, somewhere along the line, humans developed something a little higher than nature which gives us reason and ethics; enormous development potential and choice and individuality. Differences were evident and we did not think in this machine line manner.

I recognize in the Indie movement, futile attempts to apply to the machine for help. But the system is faulty and cannot give all the answers, even if a handful seem useful. You cannot rationalize with a machine or a machine like mind and you can definitely not ask it for justice; the program is a program and it would take intervention of the programmer to change it!
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Terril,

Have you ever heard of Narcissism?

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lordoftheflies.htm

Do you not think it's possible that Hubbard is still abusing followers via his writings and his idea that people who are critical of Scientology are SP's, critical of him are SP's? That if anyone wants to leave they are SP?

For over a decade many have tried to have this argument with you.

Empathy, compassion, charity and justice are not present in Scientology. Neither is tolerance or any respect for the law (rules and laws are bent to meet the needs of the group). There's a terrible attitude to the poor and needy (eugenics) and anyone who compares Hubbard's work to any other work or shows any objectivity to the behavior of the group.

From posting on Marty's board, I can say that this abuse continues outside the Church.

TO ANYONE READING; YOU CAN LEAVE AN ABUSIVE SITUATION! DON'T KEEP IT SECRET, ASK FOR HELP!
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
But, can't you say that about anything? The cheating wife or husband who lies about where they were the other day is doing much the same thing - converting the reality of their adultry into the acceptable reality of being faithful.

I am not so certain though that is a foolproof theory (finding the first lie) It certainally didn't happen with me. Take the case of my wife. When she realized one lie that Hubbard told, she thought - what else is he lying about? She threw the baby out with the dish water as a direct result of that realization. Mims

edit:
I don't recall which lie it was. I do know, when she found out DM was abusive, it destroyed her belief in much of the religion, and especially the high regard she had for the RTC. She could not accept they did that and it destroyed her regard for them.

Mims


well, you have outlined our difference with this line:

"She threw the baby out with the dish water as a direct result of that realization. "

There is no baby...
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
well, you have outlined our difference with this line:

"She threw the baby out with the dish water as a direct result of that realization. "

There is no baby...

The problem is, the first thing that a person is told is not always a lie. The second problem is that when a lie is presented, the individual may not be aware it is a lie. It makes it even harder to convince somebody they are being lied to if their experiences with the group are either A; Good or B; Have become all that they know/are aware of.

An example would be the dead agenting kit. I remember being shown this with another Scientologist in a very short period of time. I was completely underwhelmed with it, he was in a sort of glazy eyed awe of it. My problem was is that you'd get an accusation from an individual about Scientology and there was no rebuke or debate about the legitimacy of the claim, just a load of stuff about the person. ie; "In 1998 person X was involved in an investigation involving fraud..." I thought "well that might be the case, but it doesn't go back to the accusations and whether they have an air of truth, because some of them seem to be verified by many people who knew Hubbard first hand".

This process was written by Hubbard. If this is considered abusive and the Indie movement are about reforming Scientology, then they would have no problem questioning Hubbard's divinity. Reform Judaism for example does not believe the Torah is the word of God and in fact has many writer's, so refer to it as being 'divinely inspired' and that it's not essential to follow it all word for word. Liberal Judaism in the UK go as far as to not read out Torah portions they feel conpromise modern ethics, perform same sex civil partnerships and consider Jewish/social ethics as valuable as traditional viewpoints. God is no longer a being to be feared or adhered to, but one to be discussed and understood in the context of history, politics, ethics and spirituality.

The Indie movement seems to be like a computer designed to re-run old programs. It's the complete opposite! The Church wasn't "the orthodox", but now we're here to make things "orthodox" and "on-source" again. There have been three significant Scientology break away's; in the 60's, the early 80's and more recently. Have many times is there going to be this discussion over scripture? Is the contribution to Scientology and it's original sources and authors going to be annulled to the annuls of history in order to preserve Hubbard in some Pharaoh like state?

Different groups studying the same religion and philosophy should be healthy; but the intentions of source noted by those that were there at the same should not be discounted, nor should the psychological affects it has on it's current practitioners, some who seem unable to accept anything other than the orthodox viewpoint even on the outside.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
You told me personally that scientology had never ever fair gamed you, they had left you alone.

You walk people around St. Hill? A squirrel? Yeah right!

-Cut-

Trouble is I don't know Erhard, but I know you Teril and you are a liar.

That dictionary you were talking about should really redefine 'LIAR' = scientologist

Then this;

Definitely been deadfiled. However having an OSA B1 file may be
indicative of a declare. Or the same thing.

Of course not really waiting :) Don't give a damn about these Keystone Kops.:)
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
I like to deal in facts, I don't like rhetoric or lies, bold faced lies.

In 1969, January my Father told me he would be gone for three weeks at most, I was very upset, but hey what's three weeks? by May of 1969, I had not heard from him or of him and then late MAY I have Peter Gillham come give me the News Of the World newspaper and according to him his entire family is talking about it, my Father is wanted in a court case, but he can't be contacted because he is on a ship somewhere in the Mediterranean, this is May 1969, he has not been seen or heard of from his daughter since January 1969, she is still on the ship. In his absence, she has been put in Liability for talking to Greek boys.A major security risk, along with Janis Gillham who happened to be with her at the time.stuck in the hold of the Apollo. FACT!

Cleaning cobwebs initially and coming face to face with an old diving apparatus, scared the shit out of us. FACT! Like something from the Apollo moonwalks. Fact! to appease our scaredness, in the dark and full of cobwebs we were dutifully confined to an even smaller area of the hold and tasked with chipping rust off of the side of confined space. We had no mattress, no blankets, we were cold, defeated and withdrawn.We were given bread and water.I remember being told we were being given dinner, it was not what I expected at all, the basics of subsistence.

Come forward many, many years and Terril Parkes says to me I am amazed, I have met Janis just last year and here I am meeting you, same situation, yet worlds apart, she is still a scientologist.

Because of people like you Terril, that is where she will always remain.
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Examples please!

Terril, if I was anything like the "church" of scientology or even partially savvy to the way scientology operates I would have recorded every single conversation with you, I did not. it won't happen again.

I actually thought with the downfall of MarySue, they had been annihilated.How wrong was I? I was a kid, I ain't a kid no more and you people need to be annihilated.

You have caused so much destruction on family life, on life itself, I will not apologize for my thoughts and feelings, put yourself in the hold of the Apollo and tell me L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology is a fucking religion.

You are the epitome of a scientologist.

Happy religiosity!
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
One last thought,don't you ever try and trivialize what I and many others went through, many of them children.There are and I know this as fact many young kids went through hell, not because they were involved in scientology, but because their parents were at some time involved but chose to ignore the influence, the parents that is. I have spoken to quite a few now.

You have had quite a lot of wins on OT 111 I gather Terril,go see a Psychiatrist I reckon you will have even more.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
At the APIS site (where you're commended for your P.R. work Terril), there's this site page stating that all members believe 100% in KSW as written by El Con. No deviation per standard tek. Yet here you are in a video, at about 9:30 to 9:42, you state that Xenu is a metaphor. Rhetorically speaking, is that standard tek or P.R. to satisfy your interviewer? What you're doing is very similar to Marty's dissemination drill, curry favor by dismissing the true b.s. that's in $cientology so it's "acceptable" to the public. Franky, you remind me of an Hubbardian ambulance chaser with a twist.

ambulance chaser redefined (noun) slang - a Non-Cof$ $cientologist who seeks to mislead the public and is ever mindful of finding fresh victims to recruit from the Cof$ into a continued state of mind fuck.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ambulance+chaser

APIS KSW
http://internationalfreezone.net/Keeping-Scientology-Working.shtml

[video=youtube;eN-CbH8Ooz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-CbH8Ooz0[/video]
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I like to deal in facts, I don't like rhetoric or lies, bold faced lies.

In 1969, January my Father told me he would be gone for three weeks at most, I was very upset, but hey what's three weeks? by May of 1969, I had not heard from him or of him and then late MAY I have Peter Gillham come give me the News Of the World newspaper and according to him his entire family is talking about it, my Father is wanted in a court case, but he can't be contacted because he is on a ship somewhere in the Mediterranean, this is May 1969, he has not been seen or heard of from his daughter since January 1969, she is still on the ship. In his absence, she has been put in Liability for talking to Greek boys.A major security risk, along with Janis Gillham who happened to be with her at the time.stuck in the hold of the Apollo. FACT!

Cleaning cobwebs initially and coming face to face with an old diving apparatus, scared the shit out of us. FACT! Like something from the Apollo moonwalks. Fact! to appease our scaredness, in the dark and full of cobwebs we were dutifully confined to an even smaller area of the hold and tasked with chipping rust off of the side of confined space. We had no mattress, no blankets, we were cold, defeated and withdrawn.We were given bread and water.I remember being told we were being given dinner, it was not what I expected at all, the basics of subsistence.

Come forward many, many years and Terril Parkes says to me I am amazed, I have met Janis just last year and here I am meeting you, same situation, yet worlds apart, she is still a scientologist.

Because of people like you Terril, that is where she will always remain.

So you confirm you have no example of myself telling lies.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
At the APIS site (where you're commended for your P.R. work Terril), there's this site page stating that all members believe 100% in KSW as written by El Con. No deviation per standard tek. Yet here you are in a video, at about 9:30 to 9:42, you state that Xenu is a metaphor. Rhetorically speaking, is that standard tek or P.R. to satisfy your interviewer? What you're doing is very similar to Marty's dissemination drill, curry favor by dismissing the true b.s. that's in $cientology so it's "acceptable" to the public. Franky, you remind me of an Hubbardian ambulance chaser with a twist.

ambulance chaser redefined (noun) slang - a Non-Cof$ $cientologist who seeks to mislead the public and is ever mindful of finding fresh victims to recruit from the Cof$ into a continued state of mind fuck.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ambulance+chaser

APIS KSW
http://internationalfreezone.net/Keeping-Scientology-Working.shtml

[video=youtube;eN-CbH8Ooz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-CbH8Ooz0[/video]

I was kicked off IFA the forerunner of APIS some time ago. I've not looked at the APIS site I don't think and am suprised they wish to recommend me. Maybe your looking at an old URL?
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
So you confirm you have no example of myself telling lies.

slick bastard,heh! = scientologist.

It's late, i am tired, sick and tired of your lies, I would like to post more, but I will, tomorrow post your PMs and e-mails, it doesn't tell the whole story, because it does not show the phone calls or the personal conversations. I really hope you have recorded our conversations and then you can post them.

I, like so many other people look forward to seeing them. Then, we'll get the whole truth, huh!
 
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