Jan 8th Rathbun Hearing

Lone Star

Crusader
If they could find enough dirt on him to make him step down, my point still stands - he's a moral midget who didn't belong on the highest bench in the state.

I don't think they've had enough time with him to hypnotize him, I think he's dirty.

I know you didn't mean this to be funny...but :lol:

Being a 'moral midget' is a qualification to sit on the highest bench in the state.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
On the subject of Wallace Jefferson I want to give a shout out to TG1 because way back in early September she predicted that he would step down from the State Supreme Court. I don't remember if she posted that prediction here or told me on the phone, but I'll swear out an affidavit that she did predict it. :yes:
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
On the subject of Wallace Jefferson I want to give a shout out to TG1 because way back in early September she predicted that he would step down from the State Supreme Court. I don't remember if she posted that prediction here or told me on the phone, but I'll swear out an affidavit that she did predict it. :yes:


rare thing to happen... lots of people throw out lots of theories... but must say - this one was surprise to me...
:yes:

so , glad for a good work that you did, in one moment there were 200 guests...
waiting for more...

P.S. Congrats TG1
 
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JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Re: Jan 8th Rathbun Hearing - 2007 Drake in Texas = 2007 RTC Texas Connection?

So...

RTC argues that they have no connection to Texas and, because of that, the Texas court has no jurisdictional rights over RTC.

The Underground Bunker reports this li'l tidbit from yesterday's hearing at this link: http://tonyortega.org/2014/01/08/sc...t-suit-being-heard-today-rathbun-seeks-delay/

Excerpt at 7:16 p.m.:

But the most interesting thing that emerged about Monty Drake (the Dallas PI), Nick says, was that we found out he had been sent to Marty’s house in 2007 to make sure he was still alive.


(Marty had defected in 2004, but by 2007 he was so underground there were rumors online that he had died. He didn’t resurface until he began seeing other former members in 2008, and then started blogging in 2009. Only then, we thought, did the surveillance begin. Now we learn it started two years earlier.)

Remember that funky document that was filed awhile back -- the one that said RTC transferred trademark enforcement powers to CSI alone?
Yeah, that.
It was executed June 1, 2009.
Prior to June 1, 2009, RTC and CSI agreed they both had powers to enforce trademark rights.
(The original agreement began on May 18, 1982.)

Here's the single page document - submitted as Exhibit A, page 59, as part of Cedillo's Anti-SLAPP motion: http://www.scribd.com/doc/177348757/Monique-Rathbun-v-Scientology-CSI-s-Anti-SLAPP-Motion-part-1

Monty Drake was sent to Texas to investigate Mr. Rathbun in 2007.
The entities that had power to send Monty Drake to Texas in 2007 were RTC and CSI.

RTC cannot now say it had no such powers in 2007 -- their own agreement with CSI affirms such powers existed from May 18, 1982 through June 1, 2009.

Whatever Monty Drake did or didn't do in 2007 as concerns Mr. Rathbun, he did it in Texas.

Did he harass Mr. Rathbun in 2007? I don't know.
Did he investigate Mr. Rathbun in 2007? I don't know.
Did he perform surveillance only on Mr. Rathbun in 2007? I don't know.
Did Monty Drake do what he was told to do to/about Mr. Rathbun in 2007? I don't know.
Did what Monty Drake do in relation to Mr. Rathbun in 2007 in Texas differ from what he did after 2009 n Texas? I don't know.

Whatever Monty Drake did or did not do as concerns Mr. Rathbun in 2007, two entities possessed shared power to send him to Texas - RTC and CSI.

Smoking gun, much?

JB
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
if only there is a brave TV/news company ,to make reality-documentary-live show and record all of it...?:melodramatic:

this is A BIG THING happening now!!
me thinks ,this will be "a days to remember" - in future....
so glad I can be a witness of $cios big cracking! :thumbsup:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
So my question is

why didn't the COS sue Marty for practicing/doing business as an auditor without a COS copyright/trade-mark license?

Isn't that RTC's job, to protect the copyrights and trademarks?

On ESMB we toss around the term "Scientologist" a lot, (arguably) using it in the vague sense of "a person who's done stuff in Scientology and uses it somewhat in life." But SCIENTOLOGIST is a trademarked term (currently #183 on my trademarks list at http://fzglobal.org/trademarks.htm) referring to a member in good standing of the CofS.

SCIENTOLOGY is another trademarked term, needless to say.

Rathbun is committing no crime by auditing people on anything he wishes. He would probably be violating trademark law if he promotes that he is delivering "SCIENTOLOGY services," or is a SCIENTOLOGIST, although the cult hasn't been very active in defending this or other trademarks against freezone or indie auditors. He may be violating CofS copyrights if he, for example, uses a xeroxed copy of an L1C HCOB. If, on the other hand, he uses a copy of Clearbird's statement of the L1C (from, for example http://www.freezoneearth.org/clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub2/class3/55_1cprint.htm) he isn't as Clearbird's stuff has been online for 10 years or more and the cult hasn't challenged it. Note, for instance, that the PaulsRobot L1C at http://paulsrobot3.com/scn/ruds/L1C-clear-and-groove-in.htm is based on Clearbird's text. :)

I have about 20 pages full of cult copyright info indexed at http://fzglobal.org/copyrights.htm. The page at http://fzglobal.org/copyrights_transfers.htm lists all the copyright transfers I could find at the time (2006-ish), covering at least 30,000 non-unique titles, with almost all of the later ones being transfers to CST.

Paul
 
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koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
On ESMB we toss around the term "Scientologist" a lot, (arguably) using it in the vague sense of "a person who's done stuff in Scientology and uses it somewhat in life." But SCIENTOLOGIST is a trademarked term (currently #183 on my trademarks list at http://fzglobal.org/trademarks.htm) referring to a member in good standing of the CofS.

SCIENTOLOGY is another trademarked term, needless to say.

Rathbun is committing no crime by auditing people on anything he wishes. He would probably be violating trademark law if he promotes that he is delivering "SCIENTOLOGY services," or is a SCIENTOLOGIST, although the cult hasn't been very active in defending this or other trademarks against freezone or indie auditors. He may be violating CofS copyrights if he, for examples, uses a xeroxed copy of an L1C. If, on the other hand, he uses a copy of Clearbird's statement of the L1C (from, for example http://www.freezoneearth.org/clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub2/class3/55_1cprint.htm) he isn't as Clearbird's stuff has been online for 10 years or more and the cult hasn't challenged it.

I have about 20 pages full of cult copyright info indexed at http://fzglobal.org/copyrights.htm. The page at http://fzglobal.org/copyrights_transfers.htm lists all the copyright transfers I could find at the time (2006-ish), covering at least 30,000 non-unique titles, with almost all of the latest ones being transfers to CST.

Paul


Oh,Paul....
I so wish-you are on to it....

do not care about Marty , I just want to see DM in that chair...:biggrin:
 

FlagEmDown

Patron
Just wondering how the scilon harassment of Marty does not violate Marty's constitutional right to be free to practice the religion he wants to practice. If he had been a Roman Catholic, left the church, then chose to practice Christianity in his home there would be no problem.
I think the whole copyright and trademark issue is in direct conflict with the constitution.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
if only there is a brave TV/news company ,to make reality-documentary-live show and record all of it...?:melodramatic:

this is A BIG THING happening now!!
me thinks ,this will be "a days to remember" - in future....
so glad I can be a witness of $cios big cracking! :thumbsup:

It's a shame that so far no Texas TV station or even major newspaper has reported on this story. The only statewide news source that has is the Texas Observer, which is a left leaning magazine so it's readership is not widespread demographically speaking.

The last piece they did was back in September.....


http://www.texasobserver.org/scient...ight-sparks-epic-showdown-comal-county-court/

There are some very good comments at the bottom of the article.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
These are intersting points but the case is about the more recent harrassment of Mrs Rathbun, not her old man. If that makes a difference.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
These are intersting points but the case is about the more recent harrassment of Mrs Rathbun, not her old man. If that makes a difference.

It does make a difference and that's why Ricardo Cedillo tried yesterday to tie Mosey in with Marty's "work to undermine the Scientology religion and draw current members out of the CoS". I posted some of what he argued last night. Whether he was successful or not remains to be seen. He did cite case law establishing that marriage to a 'public figure' makes you a 'public figure' by default. This has privacy law implications. It's why the paparrazzi for instance can take pictures of stars in public, even outside their homes, but not in their homes.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Just wondering how the scilon harassment of Marty does not violate Marty's constitutional right to be free to practice the religion he wants to practice. If he had been a Roman Catholic, left the church, then chose to practice Christianity in his home there would be no problem.
I think the whole copyright and trademark issue is in direct conflict with the constitution.

Actually Cedillo has said several times that Marty does have the right to practice Scientology himself. Probably meaning on himself and himself only. Not delivering it to others for money, which he has done. The Judge did sit up and ask Cedillo to clarify that point on the money.

Cedillo also played a video in which Marty and Mike Rinder are talking about the need to "bust the copyrights" from the CoS. And another video in which Marty pleads with current staff members to leave the church and take important documents and disks out with them and deliver them to himself. These videos were of course posted on Marty's site and on YouTube.

This whole section of Cedillo's presentation is what really concerned me and put me in a pessimistic mood. Of course I felt better when the hearing ended on a very bad not for the evil side. LOL.....
 

Lamb

Patron with Honors
Texas news may not be carrying it but the UK Daily Mail posted all of the text exchange scripts! That is a great start:happydance:!
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
It's a shame that so far no Texas TV station or even major newspaper has reported on this story. The only statewide news source that has is the Texas Observer, which is a left leaning magazine so it's readership is not widespread demographically speaking.

The last piece they did was back in September.....


http://www.texasobserver.org/scient...ight-sparks-epic-showdown-comal-county-court/

There are some very good comments at the bottom of the article.

Television coverage did happen back in September 2013 (see link) - but I agree, that the MSM needs to step-up a bit.

Link: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-Media-Reports&p=845796&viewfull=1#post845796

And - thank you very, very much, LoneStar, for ALL you've done to report 'on scene'.

JB
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
It's a shame that so far no Texas TV station or even major newspaper has reported on this story. The only statewide news source that has is the Texas Observer, which is a left leaning magazine so it's readership is not widespread demographically speaking.

The last piece they did was back in September.....


http://www.texasobserver.org/scient...ight-sparks-epic-showdown-comal-county-court/

There are some very good comments at the bottom of the article.


I do not read articles - as right or left side- is it good 5Ws article and have a source/dox provided...

i like it!
images
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
Actually Cedillo has said several times that Marty does have the right to practice Scientology himself. Probably meaning on himself and himself only. Not delivering it to others for money, which he has done. The Judge did sit up and ask Cedillo to clarify that point on the money.

Cedillo also played a video in which Marty and Mike Rinder are talking about the need to "bust the copyrights" from the CoS. And another video in which Marty pleads with current staff members to leave the church and take important documents and disks out with them and deliver them to himself. These videos were of course posted on Marty's site and on YouTube.

This whole section of Cedillo's presentation is what really concerned me and put me in a pessimistic mood. Of course I felt better when the hearing ended on a very bad not for the evil side. LOL.....


me thinks M&M were on it, that is why they always talk about "black Scientology" :coolwink:
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Texas news may not be carrying it but the UK Daily Mail posted all of the text exchange scripts! That is a great start:happydance:!

A link would be great. I'm having a hard time navigating the Daily Mail's site. The search feature isn't helping.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
So my question is

why didn't the COS sue Marty for practicing/doing business as an auditor without a COS copyright/trade-mark license?

Isn't that RTC's job, to protect the copyrights and trademarks?

"in Mazer v. Stein, 347 U.S. 201, 217 (1954), the Supreme Court stated "Unlike a patent, a copyright gives no exclusive right to the art disclosed; protection is given only to the expression of the idea—not the idea itself."

Cedillo said "CO$ had right to have PIs to determine whether Marty was delivering services in Violation of Copyright".

My understanding is that the written word is copyrighted. The idea and its use is not.

So why did Cedillo say this?

In the 1986 "FAIR" class action suit some 400, mostly FZers , were complaining that CO$ was trying to prevent people practicing Scn.
Michael Flynn was the lawyer.
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
The key concept is jurisdiction. Remember when Hubbard said: "Someday someone will try to make Scientology illegal. Make sure we decide what is legal when that day comes!" Scientology is an international movement whose aim is to establish jurisdiction over earth. This goal is stated as clearing the planet. Look at the Aims of Scientology and the Code of Honor. Look at the papers one must sign to be a member of the IAS or the Sea Organization. Look at the HCOPL A Scientologist's Role in Life. All of the require an acceptance of Scientology jurisdiction. Opposition to this goal is what defines a Suppressive Person.

This is where the Native Americans lost to the Europeans. At first, each have there own courts. If an Native does something bad to another Native, the chief decides on the appropriate punishment. When an settler does something to another settler, the colonial Court (based on English Common Law) adjudicates the matter. A question of jurisdiction comes when an Indian crosses a European or a White harms a Native. In what jurisdiction is this addressed?

The precious prize in Scientology's quest is jurisdiction. I have personal experience with the power of jurisdiction. Four years after I had been awarded full custody of my last daughter, whose mother was not a Scientologist, the state of her birth came back at me with civil and possibly criminal charges. Convincing my state to face down the other state changed everything.

The big issue in the Monique Rathbun case is jurisdiction. Money does not matter. Public relations can be repaired. But Scientology must not allow its sovereignty to be breached. This sovereignty is the safe point from which it can expand its jurisdiction.
 
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