Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
Oh I know it.
Jesse Prince speaks out - Now It Begins
- Thread starter Free to shine
- Start date
Oh I know it.
Jquepublic
Silver Meritorious Patron
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Are you guys gonna break into song?
Private eyes! Yes, Emma, you're correct.
I know you know it.
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
I know you know I know it.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
UPDATE and CORRECTION:If you read on further within my post of Marty's quoted comment below, you will see that Marty states that he later formally trained to Cl IX.
I must have missed that the first time I read it at his blog because I did no recall that part being there. I was shocked reading that he was not trained beyond Cl V but was auditing OTs. So when went looking for that comment the other day I posted it here without re-reading it. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.
OK., I found the post where Marty talks about his real training level.
Class V Grad, with some 'priesthoods' in CL VIII & XII. Looks like only 54 people had the guts to comment on this one
From Moving On Up a Little Higher
→The Joe Howard Paradigm – tech outside the Wall
Posted on September 21, 2009
by martyrathbun09| 54 Comments
[..]
I think my own technical training narrative supports this line of thinking.
I worked pretty hard for 12 years in support of obtaining tax exemption for the Church. My primary motivation was that it was called for in LRH’s estate planning which was designed to make Scientology available to everyone ultimately. His estate planning called for a system of checks and balances so that one madman could not lord over and destroy all of Scientology. When exemption was attained it took me about a month to confirm my suspicions that the checks and balances had indeed been usurped by a madman. The control was so thorough that to even subtly object would mean being shipped off to a gulag and made into a mouse. I got on my motorcycle and rode across the country for nine days. When I phoned my father from San Antonio Greg Wilhere intercepted the call – he sat for days by my father’s bed side who was terminally ill with cancer for this purpose. He begged me to speak to Miscavige. I did, and Miscavige pleaded with me to meet him in New Orleans. I met him. Miscavige swore to God he would cease acting like a madman, and promised he would stop abusing people. He told me if I returned he’d send me to the ship to train and move up through OT III (I was Clear at the time) since I had worked so hard and safeguarded the church forever and thus deserved it.
I accepted since training in and applying Scientology was the only reason I joined the Sea Org in the first place. Miscavige sent his most trusted Class XII Greg Wilhere to join me to twin with me and report on me. He sent Snr CS Int Class XII Ray Mithoff to audit/sec check me. Both have recently executed declarations under the penalties of perjury that they are DM’s top technical dogs and I am a lunatic who has no certificates.
Now, you have probably seen that I have copped to committing physical violence on staff members – on several occasions in 2001 and two occasions in January 2004. Mithoff’s and Wilhere’s decarlarations reminded me of some more physical battery I performed on several occasions.
a. I lightly kicked Wilhere in the shins on a number of occasions, just hard enough to wake him up when he fell asleep while “coaching/suping” me on TRs, and meter drills, and while auditing me.
b. I lightly kicked Mithoff in the shins on a number of occasions just hard enough to wake him when he feel asleep on me in session.
Note, since I left the Sea Org a number of others have reported similar batteries upon those two for the same reasons.
Because no one on the ship had any idea I had blown, but for Greg and Ray, and because they only knew me as IG Ethics, nobody fooled with me on study. It was just me and LRH as far as I was concerned. I absorbed it intensively because it was the opportunity I fought for twelve years to obtain. I never once in almost two years of study doped off. I demanded to and did TR O two hour blinkless – even though I had to look at a dozing twin. When it came to the meter drills, the Class XIIs couldn’t do them with me because their needles were painted to the dial. I had to sup myself on those too, using greenhorn staff whose needles reacted like normal beings. And – long before the Golden Age of Tech, and despite orders from the two Class XIIs I didn’t need to – I did the dating drill all the way to a done routinely with no flubs. That is the way I applied LRH because I was dead serious about thoroughly duplicating his tech and using it as he did.
When I started student auditing, another Class XII – Margaret Supak – C/S’d my auditing. Not long into Grade O auditing she sent me to cramming for “comm cycle additives” for asking a distraught p.c. “what’s up.” Of course, the p.c. told me and it was the first of many, many cases I would crack by simply using communication, my meter and trying to audit like LRH did. You might have noticed that it is ILLEGAL in the current Church of Miscavology to audit anything like LRH did in the many auditing demo tapes he recorded.
Well, when I refused the cram, Wilhere came in to handle me. He couldn’t. He had zero altitude or credibility with me for the outnesses noted above and because I caught him and reported him for destroying the Freewinds Captain’s marriage by constantly and covertly flirting with his wife.
Mithoff then laid down the law with me. He told me the numerous LRH references I provided to him stating to the effect that the only way an auditor can seriously run aground is by failing to understand what is going on with the pc before him, and that one must use two way communication (required by the auditors code) to be sure he does, were trumped by Class VIII data. I told him that rather than accept verbal tech from him, I was now forced to go study Class VIII. I listened to all the Class VIII lectures and read all the written references I had not already read on Academy training.
Of course I found out Mithoff was lying or simply hadn’t a clue what Class VIII is about – and thus no clue what Standard Tech actually is. LRH lays in with an atomic branding iron that Class VIIIs study all the tech and it is drilled and applied and finally one can simply sit down and “play the piano.” Just like he advised policy be applied in the intro to the OEC. You don’t argue one line of one HCOB against another. Just as you don’t argue one line of policy against another. Incidentally, that is ALL that DM’s technical hierarchy and international management have done for years. They produce nothing. They use tech and policy to stop all day long. And right when some enterprising soul does something adventurous like do an eval, or initiate a sane tech program, Miscavige will enter some blanket order that “evals are canceled” (actual DM order), or Snr CS Int Office can issue no orders (actual DM order).
When I left the ship I had trained through Class V Grad officially. But, because of my experience with the Class XII priesthood, I effectively did the Briefing Course and Class VIII. That is because Mithoff could not explain to me why a number of integral LRH lectures were not on the Academy level checksheets he and DM had issued in LRH’s name. Rather than limit myself to the 8-12 lectures on each Grade – and then again at NED and Grad V and HSSC – I did a computer search and pulled and listened to every lecture LRH ever gave that touched on COMMUNICATION AT LEVEL 0, PROBLEMS AT LEVEL I, O/W AT LEVEL II, ARC BREAKS AT LEVEL III, AND SERV FACS AT LEVEL 4 , etc..
My first assignment upon going to Flag to work under the RTC Rep in late summer 95 was to handle the ethics (including sec checking), TRs and metering of the Class XIIs at Flag. They were a piece of work – with only a couple of exceptions – because like Mithoff and Wilhere they couldn’t even keep their eyes open for a session, couldn’t sit still in a chair, couldn’t read a meter, all the while asserting they were the priesthood and could not learn another single thing about Tech – they were IT.
In the middle of all this, their (and DM’s) product Lisa McPherson and her tragic death took me off that project before completion.
Over the next several years more of their flubbed products were assigned to me to handle by DM because he had no where else to turn. That included a virtual who’s who list of Scn celebrities and executives. Nearly all of them I FES’d, C/S’d, examined, and serviced as Ethics Officer and Chaplain in addition to auditing because every time a Class XII either at Flag or Int got involved it was all about making themselves right for their own overt products. Miscavige not only condoned that, he ordered it in place once he saw that was the only way he could stop some serious squeeky wheels from collapsing and possibly hurting his image or creating an external PR flap. Suffice it to say none of them went the route of Lisa McPherson – quite the contrary. I handled many cases tangled up in a ball from overt L’s delivery. Because of time constraints and his necessity to handle direct requests from VIPs themselves, DM ordered me to Read it-drill it-do it on NOTS and the L’s. I later was able to complete Class IX training formally, but not before I handled a number of NOTs ball ups.
When Miscavige had his final psychotic break (which he never came out of) in November 1999 (see my St Pete Times filmed interview for particulars) he started targeting me and all of international management in bizarre ways (much covered in the SP Times Series). My attempts to continue myself up the Bridge were torpedoed by Miscavige – twice pulling me off NOTs with NO justification when he had learned I had arranged an auditor for myself. I audited hundreds of hours of NOTs without having received a NOTs session. I audited Tom Cruise from start to finish on NOTs without having received NOTs myself. And even when that was done, I managed to get onto the program – and while getting Tom through OT VI – and being his review and six month check auditor, Miscavige again ordered me OFF NOTS. [..]
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/the-joe-howard-paradigm-tech-outside-the-wall/
I must have missed that the first time I read it at his blog because I did no recall that part being there. I was shocked reading that he was not trained beyond Cl V but was auditing OTs. So when went looking for that comment the other day I posted it here without re-reading it. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.
OK., I found the post where Marty talks about his real training level.
Class V Grad, with some 'priesthoods' in CL VIII & XII. Looks like only 54 people had the guts to comment on this one
From Moving On Up a Little Higher
→The Joe Howard Paradigm – tech outside the Wall
Posted on September 21, 2009
by martyrathbun09| 54 Comments
[..]
I think my own technical training narrative supports this line of thinking.
I worked pretty hard for 12 years in support of obtaining tax exemption for the Church. My primary motivation was that it was called for in LRH’s estate planning which was designed to make Scientology available to everyone ultimately. His estate planning called for a system of checks and balances so that one madman could not lord over and destroy all of Scientology. When exemption was attained it took me about a month to confirm my suspicions that the checks and balances had indeed been usurped by a madman. The control was so thorough that to even subtly object would mean being shipped off to a gulag and made into a mouse. I got on my motorcycle and rode across the country for nine days. When I phoned my father from San Antonio Greg Wilhere intercepted the call – he sat for days by my father’s bed side who was terminally ill with cancer for this purpose. He begged me to speak to Miscavige. I did, and Miscavige pleaded with me to meet him in New Orleans. I met him. Miscavige swore to God he would cease acting like a madman, and promised he would stop abusing people. He told me if I returned he’d send me to the ship to train and move up through OT III (I was Clear at the time) since I had worked so hard and safeguarded the church forever and thus deserved it.
I accepted since training in and applying Scientology was the only reason I joined the Sea Org in the first place. Miscavige sent his most trusted Class XII Greg Wilhere to join me to twin with me and report on me. He sent Snr CS Int Class XII Ray Mithoff to audit/sec check me. Both have recently executed declarations under the penalties of perjury that they are DM’s top technical dogs and I am a lunatic who has no certificates.
Now, you have probably seen that I have copped to committing physical violence on staff members – on several occasions in 2001 and two occasions in January 2004. Mithoff’s and Wilhere’s decarlarations reminded me of some more physical battery I performed on several occasions.
a. I lightly kicked Wilhere in the shins on a number of occasions, just hard enough to wake him up when he fell asleep while “coaching/suping” me on TRs, and meter drills, and while auditing me.
b. I lightly kicked Mithoff in the shins on a number of occasions just hard enough to wake him when he feel asleep on me in session.
Note, since I left the Sea Org a number of others have reported similar batteries upon those two for the same reasons.
Because no one on the ship had any idea I had blown, but for Greg and Ray, and because they only knew me as IG Ethics, nobody fooled with me on study. It was just me and LRH as far as I was concerned. I absorbed it intensively because it was the opportunity I fought for twelve years to obtain. I never once in almost two years of study doped off. I demanded to and did TR O two hour blinkless – even though I had to look at a dozing twin. When it came to the meter drills, the Class XIIs couldn’t do them with me because their needles were painted to the dial. I had to sup myself on those too, using greenhorn staff whose needles reacted like normal beings. And – long before the Golden Age of Tech, and despite orders from the two Class XIIs I didn’t need to – I did the dating drill all the way to a done routinely with no flubs. That is the way I applied LRH because I was dead serious about thoroughly duplicating his tech and using it as he did.
When I started student auditing, another Class XII – Margaret Supak – C/S’d my auditing. Not long into Grade O auditing she sent me to cramming for “comm cycle additives” for asking a distraught p.c. “what’s up.” Of course, the p.c. told me and it was the first of many, many cases I would crack by simply using communication, my meter and trying to audit like LRH did. You might have noticed that it is ILLEGAL in the current Church of Miscavology to audit anything like LRH did in the many auditing demo tapes he recorded.
Well, when I refused the cram, Wilhere came in to handle me. He couldn’t. He had zero altitude or credibility with me for the outnesses noted above and because I caught him and reported him for destroying the Freewinds Captain’s marriage by constantly and covertly flirting with his wife.
Mithoff then laid down the law with me. He told me the numerous LRH references I provided to him stating to the effect that the only way an auditor can seriously run aground is by failing to understand what is going on with the pc before him, and that one must use two way communication (required by the auditors code) to be sure he does, were trumped by Class VIII data. I told him that rather than accept verbal tech from him, I was now forced to go study Class VIII. I listened to all the Class VIII lectures and read all the written references I had not already read on Academy training.
Of course I found out Mithoff was lying or simply hadn’t a clue what Class VIII is about – and thus no clue what Standard Tech actually is. LRH lays in with an atomic branding iron that Class VIIIs study all the tech and it is drilled and applied and finally one can simply sit down and “play the piano.” Just like he advised policy be applied in the intro to the OEC. You don’t argue one line of one HCOB against another. Just as you don’t argue one line of policy against another. Incidentally, that is ALL that DM’s technical hierarchy and international management have done for years. They produce nothing. They use tech and policy to stop all day long. And right when some enterprising soul does something adventurous like do an eval, or initiate a sane tech program, Miscavige will enter some blanket order that “evals are canceled” (actual DM order), or Snr CS Int Office can issue no orders (actual DM order).
When I left the ship I had trained through Class V Grad officially. But, because of my experience with the Class XII priesthood, I effectively did the Briefing Course and Class VIII. That is because Mithoff could not explain to me why a number of integral LRH lectures were not on the Academy level checksheets he and DM had issued in LRH’s name. Rather than limit myself to the 8-12 lectures on each Grade – and then again at NED and Grad V and HSSC – I did a computer search and pulled and listened to every lecture LRH ever gave that touched on COMMUNICATION AT LEVEL 0, PROBLEMS AT LEVEL I, O/W AT LEVEL II, ARC BREAKS AT LEVEL III, AND SERV FACS AT LEVEL 4 , etc..
My first assignment upon going to Flag to work under the RTC Rep in late summer 95 was to handle the ethics (including sec checking), TRs and metering of the Class XIIs at Flag. They were a piece of work – with only a couple of exceptions – because like Mithoff and Wilhere they couldn’t even keep their eyes open for a session, couldn’t sit still in a chair, couldn’t read a meter, all the while asserting they were the priesthood and could not learn another single thing about Tech – they were IT.
In the middle of all this, their (and DM’s) product Lisa McPherson and her tragic death took me off that project before completion.
Over the next several years more of their flubbed products were assigned to me to handle by DM because he had no where else to turn. That included a virtual who’s who list of Scn celebrities and executives. Nearly all of them I FES’d, C/S’d, examined, and serviced as Ethics Officer and Chaplain in addition to auditing because every time a Class XII either at Flag or Int got involved it was all about making themselves right for their own overt products. Miscavige not only condoned that, he ordered it in place once he saw that was the only way he could stop some serious squeeky wheels from collapsing and possibly hurting his image or creating an external PR flap. Suffice it to say none of them went the route of Lisa McPherson – quite the contrary. I handled many cases tangled up in a ball from overt L’s delivery. Because of time constraints and his necessity to handle direct requests from VIPs themselves, DM ordered me to Read it-drill it-do it on NOTS and the L’s. I later was able to complete Class IX training formally, but not before I handled a number of NOTs ball ups.
When Miscavige had his final psychotic break (which he never came out of) in November 1999 (see my St Pete Times filmed interview for particulars) he started targeting me and all of international management in bizarre ways (much covered in the SP Times Series). My attempts to continue myself up the Bridge were torpedoed by Miscavige – twice pulling me off NOTs with NO justification when he had learned I had arranged an auditor for myself. I audited hundreds of hours of NOTs without having received a NOTs session. I audited Tom Cruise from start to finish on NOTs without having received NOTs myself. And even when that was done, I managed to get onto the program – and while getting Tom through OT VI – and being his review and six month check auditor, Miscavige again ordered me OFF NOTS. [..]
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/the-joe-howard-paradigm-tech-outside-the-wall/
Last edited:
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
I don't believe it.
Why not just study a standard checksheet in a standard courseroom, do an internship and get a cert?
Everybody listens to tapes and reads bulletins.
Why all the kicking of people lightly in the shins?
Which TR is that?
And why all the natter about his auditors and his supervisors?
Why not just study a standard checksheet in a standard courseroom, do an internship and get a cert?
Everybody listens to tapes and reads bulletins.
Why all the kicking of people lightly in the shins?
Which TR is that?
And why all the natter about his auditors and his supervisors?
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
green or red - its *all* poison
Kinda confirms Jesse's point that Rathbun is a green-on-white hard nut specialising in reverse process "recovery", rather than a namby-pamby red-on-white auditor. I wonder what would have happened had someone Marty was dealing with decided to pull that "insufficient altitude I'm doing it Ron's way so fuck off" attitude during one of his ethics cycles. Hmmm . . .
OK., I found the post where Marty talks about his real training level.
Class V Grad, with some 'priesthoods' in CL VIII & XII. Looks like only 54 people had the guts to comment on this one
From Moving On Up a Little Higher
→The Joe Howard Paradigm – tech outside the Wall
Posted on September 21, 2009
by martyrathbun09| 54 Comments
. . . <snip Martyworld fairy tale> . . .
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/the-joe-howard-paradigm-tech-outside-the-wall/
Kinda confirms Jesse's point that Rathbun is a green-on-white hard nut specialising in reverse process "recovery", rather than a namby-pamby red-on-white auditor. I wonder what would have happened had someone Marty was dealing with decided to pull that "insufficient altitude I'm doing it Ron's way so fuck off" attitude during one of his ethics cycles. Hmmm . . .
Feral
Rogue male
2nd phenomenon?
OK, in there he said this;
and this;
So it seems TC was NOT audited by an untrained uncerted auditor.
Lucky, eh? Someone could have gotten declared!!!
degraded being
Sponsor
Just one small point Terril. They are fucked in the head.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
That was my mistake. Apologies
Terril park
Sponsor
Looks like a reference to the Freezone/Independent arena.
Terril park
Sponsor
OK., I found the post where Marty talks about his real training level.
Class V Grad, with some 'priesthoods' in CL VIII & XII. Looks like only 54 people had the guts to comment on this one
Thanks Mary.
I think the reason only 54 commented is that Marty's
blog is that it had fewer posted back in 2009.
Marty's comments ring true to me. If you look at those who have written about their experience at Flag it is mostly negative. From here, Marty's Blog, critical forums and FZ forums. Then look at the stats of those on OT 7
published by Michel here. Mostly fail.
The established highly trained auditors have had a constant reign of terror
and those that remain must be in poor mental condition.
Also reading the commentaters on that section of his Blog details how DM was the controlling tech terminal.
Need one say more?
AlphOhm
Traveler of time/space
Crap!
You're right.
Update from Facebook:
Dennis Erlich:
Hey Stacy, Jesse says you back in scn. "BTW Stacey Brooks is still in, and still part of SCN." Is this true?
Stacy Brooks:
No, not in any way. I have nothing to do with Scn at all. I haven't had any contact with Jesse in a long time. Can't imagine why he would say that.
Jquepublic
Silver Meritorious Patron
He never said she is still in... Jesse said in his video:
"The reason that the Lisa McPherson Trust doesn't exist today is because the president of it, Stacy Brooks, who did so much to help people, went back to Scientology. We don't want that to happen to Marty."
That was many many years ago. He did not imply she was still in it, just that at some point she'd gone back.
AlphOhm
Traveler of time/space
Look back in the thread a bit--I posted yesterday that he said yesterday on facebook that she had returned to scn. Turns out not to be true.
Veda
Sponsor
Anyone who's seen another buckle under Scientology harassment and threats, and make "friends" (Stockholm Syndrome style) with Scientology agents&lawyers, who then direct him/her to write this or that, say this or that, and, essentially, work on behalf of Scientology, knows what Jesse Prince means.
The latest phase of the "dead agenting" of Jesse Prince has already begun. Everything he says will be examined under a microscope. The Scientological mind will search for __one thing__ that Jesse Prince said or wrote that can be "proven" to be inaccurate, and then they'll put the spotlight on that.
Unlike Rathbun, Prince is simply telling the truth as best he can express it. That can be a dangerous thing to do.
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