more:
http://princejesse53.blogspot.com/2...?showComment=1304696778746#c61323744379415493
tfcvp said...
Dear R. Hill,
I post this response with some serious hesitation--not because there's anything to hide, but because what's happening here on Jesse's blog is exactly why I quit posting to the internet 10 years ago.
To be as honest as I can without starting some kind of flame war, Gerry's account is not totally accurate and yes, I was there when Caroline came to Ken's office in Tampa, but as soon as I post what I know to be true, the back and forth will commence and who's got the time for that? Additionally, once I posted what "I" witnessed at the time, Gerry would feel compelled to negate what I relate and this could only be resolved if I brought Ken on to post or other people who were there at the time and why the heck would I bother those people? Follow? It's very distressing to know the truth--relate the truth and have to keep getting mired down in "noyoudinit" instead of just getting the story out to the best of your ability.
Writing on Jesse's blog is, for me, a pleasure because I want to support Jesse to finally get his story out without becoming soured by the whole tit-for-tat nit-picking that used to go on way back when we both used to post to the net. That's not to say that I want bogus facts to be propagated without correction. It's just that from MY experience (10 years ago)there's just certain people that spend their entire life on the net and they just seem to beat a point to death like a chihuahua with a chew toy---they just won't let it alone, when in fact it's a "who shot john" that never resolves itself.
Personally, I had very little time to keep responding to the back and forth, so I just went away. I always figured that, unless you are free to respond to all the back and forth, it's better to just not post. Too many times, years ago, accusations and allegations were hurled at me that I couldn't respond to for weeks (because of time constraints from work and family) and, for those who spend a lot of time on the net, it was considered "ducking" or hiding or worse. And the part that got my goat was that the accusations and allegations were TOTALLY false and I was forced to leave that whole shit storm to propagate on its own and I just didn't have the time or energy to keep defending myself.
I thought it was kind of cool that Jesse decided to "blog" his story, because rather than post to the newsgroups and message boards where people are all gathered to chat and argue all day, Jesse could roll out his story to the best of his ability without feeling compelled to keep fighting over every detail.
Granted, I don't have a blog and I don't blog (hell I never even filled out my Facebook page properly), but I was of the opinion that your personal blog was like a journal--a place where you can tell your story without being attacked for your opinions. But maybe I'm mistaken.
For example: Jesse expressed his opinion here about people who settle lawsuits. He wrote about that here on his personal blog and that was HIS opinion. I wrote a comment expressing MY opinion about people who settle and it differed from Jesse's, but I certainly wouldn't think to attack or demand explanations from Jesse for having an opinion different than mine. It's an OPINION and I, for one, was sad to see Gerry come here to demand that Jesse defend that opinion.
If my idea of what a blog represents is wrong, then I'll own that, but it just brings back a flood of memories of all the "chew toy" type back and forth that never seemed to resolve itself.
Note: I think I'm once again surpassing the 4.096 character limit required for these comments so I'll continue in the next (I really need to learn how to condense my thoughts better)
May 6, 2011 8:46 AM
tfcvp said...
(continued due to verbosity
)
In response to your question though, not every witness signed a non-disclosure--it wasn't necessary for some. Back in those days there were certain netizens who felt compelled to post every move they made and every breath they took. They felt they had "followers" who "needed" to have info on everything they felt, said or did.
On the other hand there were witnesses who recognized that a court case involving Scientology required a certain amount of discretion and it wasn't necessary to have them sign a NDA. Folks like Hana Whitfield, Frank Oliver, Bill Franks, et al---I'm fairly certain they were not asked to sign an NDA. I can ask Ken to verify. Also I would assume that Jesse didn't sign one either in that he had experience with SCN court cases and knew that it was not sane to discuss details of an ongoing case. But I don't know, I never asked him. All that I know is that all of our witnesses kept details of the case to themselves until after it was finished.
Because Caroline and Gerry were posting about their life and their everyday experiences full time on the net, we asked Caroline to not discuss anything about the case (while it was ongoing) and she immediately expressed reservations. She told us that "Gerry was her "spiritual guide" and she felt it necessary to share everything with him. We offered her the phone to call Gerry to discuss her decision with him.
As I recall Caroline was on the phone with Gerry for a very long time when we finally walked back in and asked her what she'd decided. She informed us that she couldn't "hide" anything from Gerry about the ongoing case. So, in order to accomodate her relationship with Gerry we offered her the following: Ask Gerry to sign the NDA as well so that you're free to share the details of the case as it's happening (only with Gerry), but then Gerry will have to agree NOT to discuss what you tell him with anybody.
She called Gerry back (on speakerphone) and offered him that option. Gerry refused. He told us that he had friends and supporters on the net that EXPECTED to hear details of his life and he refused the deal.
With that we thanked Caroline for coming to Tampa, and we made arrangements to get her to the airport.
There was no discussion about the terms outlining repercussions for violating the agreement. Just a general refusal to keep details of the case private. Based on what we were trying to accomplish in court, we needed a certain level of discretion that Caroline and Gerry were not willing to agree to...PERIOD.
Now that's the facts and quite honestly I can't understand how that could be misconstrued, but it was. There was so much more important stuff going on at the time that this incident was just a blip on the radar screen and certainly nothing that needed further clarification. Honestly, I was surprised to hear it brought up...with a "twist" no less, so many years later.
I hope that my response answers your question---I have no dog in this fight so my answer is accurate to the best of my ability. I hope it settles this issue, but somehow I doubt it will.
May 6, 2011 8:55 AM
tfcvp said...
Dear R. Hill,
I just realized that I didn't answer your question in the last paragraph of your comment.
Regarding who received large sums of money from Bob:
First and contrary to crap spewed all over the net, I never received money from Bob. When we made the movie (The Profit), I was paid the same salary by TFC that I always got--even though functioning as producer was far more work than my job as art director/designer ever entailed. As producer I was in charge of getting the sets designed, continuity, wardrobe/costumes, show cars, and all the details that went into shooting a period piece. When the gaffers needed more cable, I ordered it, when the lighting guys needed more gels I procured them.When the wardrobe mistress needed a new steamer, I provided it...you get the idea. It was an exhausting job, but I did it---at the same rate of pay I got as a designer for TFC.
Jesse was paid as an employee of the LMT...as was Bunker, Teresa Summers, Jeff Jacobson and Ingrid, the receptionist. Bunker, of course got all kinds of camera and recording equipment and, per Bob, occasionally a "bail out" when he ran into difficulties.
Whereas Gerry, according to Bob, received $100K but I believe that was part of some deal Bob had worked out that Gerry would then donate the money back to the LMT. I'm no tax attorney, but I believe that arrangement was part of a scheme to get funds from Europe back to Bob and the LMT in order to avoid taxes. But you can verify that in the transcripts of Ken's Disqual Hearing.
Bob did the same thing with Andreas H (of Clambake), but through a surrogate surreptitiously called "the fatman." This was covered in the Disqual hearing transcripts.
Lerma, on the other hand, per Bob, was always asking for money from Bob. When he wanted to fix up his house, he got money from Bob. When Bob needed to have Lerma convince Wollersheim to drop his case, he gave Lerma another chunk of dough. I have no idea how much money he received from Bob, definitely more than $100K--again you'd have to refer to the transcripts from the Disqual hearing.
That always puzzled me because Lerma was "personna non grata" at the LMT. Ingrid,the receptionist was given orders by both Bob and Stacy to block incoming calls from Lerma---go figure. Don't ask me-- I'm only relaying what I was told and what I saw.
Anyway, I certainly wasn't privy to all Bob's financial dealings, but I did hear about the stuff that came out in court.
I don't know of any other internet posters who got money from Bob---but then again, I don't know who's posting anymore.
That's all I can remember, but again, most of this came out in Ken's disqual hearing, as well as depositions, so please verify it there within the stuff posted on the net from those legal proceedings.
Again, I'm relying on memories from years ago, but I'm fairly certain this info is accurate.
May 6, 2011 9:56 AM
Dennis said...
Wow Jess and Pat. Thanks for sharing behind the scenes. All the names and info of those who contacted LMT went back to the cult? Ouch!
May 7, 2011 8:06 PM
tfcvp said...
Dennis,
Regarding how and what the cult got when Bob gave them the LMT, the best source on that is Ingrid Wagner. She was the receptionist at the LMT and since she lived in Tampa, she was left behind to "guard" the LMT when everybody scattered.
Since there was a sizable archive in the building, Ingrid was told to await instuctions as to when and where to pack up and ship it.
There was quite a collection of docs in that archive...gathered from many sources. The most interesting was the archive donated by former Mayor of Clearwater, Gabe Cazares. There was also a massive stash of docs that Bob bought for a sizable chunk of change (I can't remember the name of the guy he bought it from). Aside from those huge archives there was all sorts of newspaper/magazine articles, books, tapes and SCN publications.
Per Ingrid, the LMT alarm system was still active and she was the designated person the alarm company would call if there was an intrusion.
One night, somewhere around midnight, the alarm company called her to say there was an intrusion. She called Stacy in Atlanta to ask her what she should do.
Stacy told her to ignore the call--that Bob had given the building to SCN...period.
At that moment in time, Ingrid got a wee bit more than pissed. She felt that Stacy had betrayed all the people who'd donated docs to the LMT---because now, the cult had them all and the plan to use them in court cases and to help exers get out was now trashed.
Ingrid never spoke to Stacy again.
May 8, 2011 12:43 AM
mirele said...
Jesse and Patricia, thank you so much for your words here. It's difficult for me to go back to that time because I felt very betrayed by what happened, but I do appreciate more pieces added to the puzzle.
May 8, 2011 5:37 PM
