Jesse Prince speaks out - Now It Begins

[Lurker5]

Question !

Didn't Marty claim on his blog, early on, that he was Tom C's personal auditor, or audited him, for awhile? I seem to recall that. :confused2:

 

[Terril park]

Thanks for the post, Jesse.

In the BBC video it mentions that Marty was a high level auditor and it also infers that he was, I think it said, a confessor for TC, JT and Kirsty Alley. If this isn't so, maybe somebody should straighten out the BBC on this. Maybe they could do another segment with the truth?

Marty certainly audited Tom Cruise, can't recall about JT and Kirstie. He spent two years studying tech on the Freewinds.

 

[Alanzo]

Marty certainly audited Tom Cruise, can't recall about JT and Kirstie. He spent two years studying tech on the Freewinds.

Do they have auditor courses on the Freewinds?

Or did he just "study tech" there?

What exact class of auditor is Marty Rathbun, anyway?

 

[Jquepublic]

I am like many other ex-Scientologists, in that I had very HIGH HOPES when I first got in. I really thought that I had finally found the "answer". I mean, LRH told me, over and over, that he had found the answer! He even also told me that if something is asserted over and over, with authority, that most people will believe it! He was right about the last part, and very wrong about the first part.

I invested my heart and soul, at least in the beginning. When I signed that Sea Org contract, I really did have the romantic vision of working shoulder-to-shoulder with an elite group of wonderful, caring, spiritually-oriented beings. The problem, I quickly learned, is that the organization was bat-shit crazy, based on exact application of many LRH policies, and also that there was FAR TOO MUCH PR and lying going on all of the time. Simply, the "ideals" Hubbard asserted did not at all correspond to reality. The actuality of what was going on in organized Scientology was so VERY FAR REMOVED from what I thought that I had originally signed up for. I didn't stay in the SO for more than a few years, because it was just NOT AT ALL what I thought I had been getting involved in.

Another big problem is that Hubbard did explain some things in ways that few or none ever did before, such as the nature of universes and their basis in postulates and agreements. He really did have some brilliant stuff. Axiom 38, and the issue on Personal Intergity. Just wonderful.

And, I could not dismiss that I went fully exterior on both TRs and auditing, and that it was the most PERFECT state of beingness that I had up until then ever experienced. To deny THAT would be a lie.

So, the problem for me was, how do I make sense of this mountain of contradictions? I kept going along for awhile because of the small bits of brilliant stuff, the amazing "key outs", but mainly because KSW kept getting rammed down my throat. In the end, if one doesn't buy into the whole KSW story, it is not so hard to walk away.

I have always been able to comfortably live with contradictions, so I kept along for awhile, with one "good pile" and one "bad pile". But, as time went on the "bad pile" kept growing, disproportionately so.

I used to think that possibly Hubbard had good intentions early on, but that he went haywire in the mid 1960s (when he wrote KSW). But, as I did more and more reading about his past, as I watched him speak live in lectures, and as I came to learn about the very NASTY side of OSA and the GO, well I now have the attitude that he intentionally set it up as a mind-fuck right from the start. That doesn't mean that he wasn't brilliant, that there aren't juicy morsels of "truth" strewn randomly throughout the subject, but only that his basic aim was deception and entrapment. Possibly for some "black magical" aim. Possibly as a way to siphon energy from others to himself. Obviously, it didn't "work" to empower him, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't continue to harm various people.

I cannot honestly say that I any longer have the opinion that he EVER had the aim to truly "help" anyone. That some people may have been "helped" in some manner, was either accidental or necessary to the overall bigger picture he was involved in.

The BIGGEST factor of entrapment involves the "help button". There was a thread recently where a poster got very indignant (it may have been The Oracle), and she went off on a sort of tirade about, "I will never apologize for being in the Sea Org", and "I was there doing my very best to make a better world". I was going to write a ripping response, but something held me back. Mainly, I could see that she was dead serious about it. I also remembered where a poster recently commented that I must have been out for so long or never had any concern for the 3rd dynamic at all, for me to say whatever I had said. It was a bit uncomfortable, because I really did NOT want to go back 25 years and re-mock up what my state of mind was back then in the Sea Org. But, I did. And, I let the whole thing simmer in my mind for a day. And then it really hit me!

The BIGGEST HOOK of all of Hubbard's hooks was the HELP BUTTON. Again, he tells you straight out in his materials that people have been betrayed with HELP so often in the past, and that people have a BIG button on it. And again, after he tells you ALL ABOUT IT, he uses that exact bit of data to TRAP YOU.

These people were and are still there largely because they are some of the possibly few people on the planet who are willing to dedicate their lives to helping Man. They are giving up normal lives for an ideal. But, and this is a HUGE "but", the IDEAL is a scam!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, yes, there are some there who are just royal assholes. Who are happy to keep perpetuating the scam.

Hubbard designed the Sea Org, and the Sea Org continues to run, along with all Scientology organizations, almost solely on the GOOD INTENTIONS & FUNDAMENTAL DESIRE TO HELP of largely good and decent people. But the actuality of the IDEAL that Hubbard spells out is a lie and a scam. Now, THAT is fucking EVIL!

++++++++++

So true - that desire to help, that willingness to make sacrifices and to tolerate incredible personal abuse for the chance to make a difference in the world is taken by an organization like Scientology Inc and perverted and twisted into something destructive. I think I already mentioned on this board that when things would seem the most insane in my environment, I would hold onto the notion that none of it had anything to do with Hubbard, or with Scientology, or with me. I worked for Ron! It took a lot of research and a lot of crying and a lot of anger, and frankly it's an ongoing struggle for me to deal with the fact that he was the ultimate source of both my own entrapment and my betrayal. It's that betrayal that hit me the hardest, and that betrayal that still stops me in my tracks occasionally.

I think that it's important for anyone who still is involved to whatever degree with corporate Scn to know that they are free to reject anything they disagree with IN SPITE OF policy and group agreement to the contrary. If people find value in the subject and want to continue it, they're free to do so in my book, but I beg them to do so outside the entanglement of such a destructive and abusive cult. It's quite possible - there are a number of resources for "the Bridge" outside the church and that number increases almost daily.

To anyone who is still caught in that web, I want to say that you can still help make this world a better place. Pick up a sign, slip on a Guy Fawkes mask, write a letter to your congressman, contact child services, refuse to pay one red cent to an organization that imprisons, abuses and manipulates its own. Take back your life. Do it now. Don't let anything keep you in chains. If we all work together we CAN stop the church of Scientology.

Sorry for the derail! Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Bank Account Cleared]

Who's writing this stuff? Goebbels??

Long time friend, assistant producer, photographer, companion and assistant to Mr Tom Cruise, Mr Michael Doven, is now battling Scientology-traitor, Mark "Marty" Rathbun, in order to recover a straying Scientologist leader.

Today, Rathbun aka "The Kingpin" admitted on his sordid propaganda blog that he was harboring the un-named top Scientology leader who had strayed from the Church compound.

The Church, through spokesman Mr Tommy Davis, has formerly said of Rathbun, the long-time former Inspector General of the Religious Technology Centre:

"This guy is a f***ing lunatic. And I don't have to explain how or why he became one, or how it was allowable. [...] I'm G** d**** p***ed at Marty Rathbun. Because he knows that he was the reign of terror, the whole-track prison warden, and the lunatic. Because he admitted to it."

The Church, being compelled, once again, to cross swords with the psychopathic Rathbun, has authorized a large deputation lead by Mr Doven to recover the disoriented, un-named Scientology executive. Using the Scientology Technology devised by the Humanitarian, Mr L Ron Hubbard, and safeguarded by ecclesiastical leader, Mr David Miscavige, the success of the recovery deputation is virtually assured.

 

[Alanzo]

So true - that desire to help, that willingness to make sacrifices and to tolerate incredible personal abuse for the chance to make a difference in the world is taken by an organization like Scientology Inc and perverted and twisted into something destructive. I think I already mentioned on this board that when things would seem the most insane in my environment, I would hold onto the notion that none of it had anything to do with Hubbard, or with Scientology, or with me. I worked for Ron! It took a lot of research and a lot of crying and a lot of anger, and frankly it's an ongoing struggle for me to deal with the fact that he was the ultimate source of both my own entrapment and my betrayal. It's that betrayal that hit me the hardest, and that betrayal that still stops me in my tracks occasionally.

I think that it's important for anyone who still is involved to whatever degree with corporate Scn to know that they are free to reject anything they disagree with IN SPITE OF policy and group agreement to the contrary. If people find value in the subject and want to continue it, they're free to do so in my book, but I beg them to do so outside the entanglement of such a destructive and abusive cult. It's quite possible - there are a number of resources for "the Bridge" outside the church and that number increases almost daily.

To anyone who is still caught in that web, I want to say that you can still help make this world a better place. Pick up a sign, slip on a Guy Fawkes mask, write a letter to your congressman, contact child services, refuse to pay one red cent to an organization that imprisons, abuses and manipulates its own. Take back your life. Do it now. Don't let anything keep you in chains. If we all work together we CAN stop the church of Scientology.

Sorry for the derail! Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

...

 

[Alanzo]

Long time friend, assistant producer, photographer, companion and assistant to Mr Tom Cruise, Mr Michael Doven, is now battling Scientology-traitor, Mark "Marty" Rathbun, in order to recover a straying Scientologist leader.

Today, Rathbun aka "The Kingpin" admitted on his sordid propaganda blog that he was harboring the un-named top Scientology leader who had strayed from the Church compound.

The Church, through spokesman Mr Tommy Davis, has formerly said of Rathbun, the long-time former Inspector General of the Religious Technology Centre:

"This guy is a f***ing lunatic. And I don't have to explain how or why he became one, or how it was allowable. [...] I'm G** d**** p***ed at Marty Rathbun. Because he knows that he was the reign of terror, the whole-track prison warden, and the lunatic. Because he admitted to it."

The Church, being compelled, once again, to cross swords with the psychopathic Rathbun, has authorized a large deputation lead by Mr Doven to recover the disoriented, un-named Scientology executive. Using the Scientology Technology devised by the Humanitarian, Mr L Ron Hubbard, and safeguarded by ecclesiastical leader, Mr David Miscavige, the success of the recovery deputation is virtually assured.

This is a snippet of a recording of Tommy Davis in a meeting with the reporters at the SPTimes. He knows he is being recorded.

This is the global spokesperson for the Church of Scientology International.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-odxyHlqYg8

 

[Jquepublic]

This is a snippet of a recording of Tommy Davis in a meeting with the reporters at the SPTimes. He knows he is being recorded.

This is the global spokesperson for the Church of Scientology International.

Yes, I heard (or read an excerpt from) this before. And while he intended to place the blame on Rathbun, he in fact confessed that there was a known abusive element that was NOT ADDRESSED by the church. Someone violent with staff on 50 seperate occasions yet he's still at the top of the management totem pole? I wonder how much trouble Tommy was in after that tirade.

I'd never dispute the fact that there are people in the church who will need to answer for their crimes. Rathbun may well be one of those people. But it's not my place to decide who to hang - ultimately it needs to be resolved in a court of law. Our government has largely failed to uphold its responsibility to protect its citizens so far, but I feel (and very much hope) that if we bring enough pressure to bear on the situation they will be forced into action.

 

[BunnySkull]

That's the problem

Marty certainly audited Tom Cruise, can't recall about JT and Kirstie. He spent two years studying tech on the Freewinds.

As I said on my last post, on the last page, that is the major problem. The only person who attests to Marty's training level is Marty himself, who's credibility is lower than most city sewers due to a career of "acceptable truths" and down right astounding lies to the media and others for over two decades.

The only reason he audited Cruise, as Marty himself admits, was to "bring him back to the fold" which to me means more control and coercion techniques (which I guess some indies would call Black Dinatetics, whereas I just think of it as good old fashion Scientology in action.) His mission was to recover Cruise. He did not audit Cruise because he was some magical thetan loving auditor looking out for Cruise's best interest, but because he was their dirty ops guy who would ensure Cruise was recovered one way or another, no matter what it took.

Marty was sent to the Freewinds, after his blow, for a few reasons - intense sec-checking by Wilhere, RPF party and to avoid subpoenas. Marty is the only one claiming it was some vacation he was gifted by DM to study the tech. So I guess do you believe Marty was being punished by DM or given the "gift" of tech training while they were hiding him out on the ship? I think the answer is obvious. I understand you do some training while on the RPF as part of the process, but I don't believe that was DM's first concern for Marty.

The story of his miracle tech training aboard the Freewinds has always stunk to high heaven, but they may have broke Marty's brain to the point he actually believes it. I think Greg Wilhere has that capability given enough time, which he had in abundance with MR.

Again, the only one that attests to Marty's sky high training abilities or levels is old Marty himself. Take that as you will.

 

[Dulloldfart]

As I said on my last post, on the last page, that is the major problem. The only person who attests to Marty's training level is Marty himself, who's credibility is lower than most city sewers due to a career of "acceptable truths" and down right astounding lies to the media and others for over two decades.

The only reason he audited Cruise, as Marty himself admits, was to "bring him back to the fold" which to me means more control and coercion techniques (which I guess some indies would call Black Dinatetics, whereas I just think of it as good old fashion Scientology in action.) His mission was to recover Cruise. He did not audit Cruise because he was some magical thetan loving auditor looking out for Cruise's best interest, but because he was their dirty ops guy who would ensure Cruise was recovered one way or another, no matter what it took.

Is there any dispute that he audited TC?

Assuming he did, and continued to do so, this must mean that both DM and TC were happy with the ongoing arrangement. I can't see DM allowing a known shaky auditor to audit TC in some high-risk situation, and I don't see TC continuing to go along with it if he did not feel he was benefiting from the service. Which means Marty got well-trained as an auditor.

Marty running Black Ops on TC instead of auditing? Seems unlikely to me. You can blackmail or threaten someone into silence, but coercing them into being a high-profile gushing spokesman at great risk to their career seems impossible.

Paul

 

[Daisy]

As I said on my last post, on the last page, that is the major problem. The only person who attests to Marty's training level is Marty himself, who's credibility is lower than most city sewers due to a career of "acceptable truths" and down right astounding lies to the media and others for over two decades.

The only reason he audited Cruise, as Marty himself admits, was to "bring him back to the fold" which to me means more control and coercion techniques (which I guess some indies would call Black Dinatetics, whereas I just think of it as good old fashion Scientology in action.) His mission was to recover Cruise. He did not audit Cruise because he was some magical thetan loving auditor looking out for Cruise's best interest, but because he was their dirty ops guy who would ensure Cruise was recovered one way or another, no matter what it took.

Marty was sent to the Freewinds, after his blow, for a few reasons - intense sec-checking by Wilhere, RPF party and to avoid subpoenas. Marty is the only one claiming it was some vacation he was gifted by DM to study the tech. So I guess do you believe Marty was being punished by DM or given the "gift" of tech training while they were hiding him out on the ship? I think the answer is obvious. I understand you do some training while on the RPF as part of the process, but I don't believe that was DM's first concern for Marty.

The story of his miracle tech training aboard the Freewinds has always stunk to high heaven, but they may have broke Marty's brain to the point he actually believes it. I think Greg Wilhere has that capability given enough time, which he had in abundance with MR.

Again, the only one that attests to Marty's sky high training abilities or levels is old Marty himself. Take that as you will.

Excellent points BunnySkull. So Marty is highly trained huh? LIke this:

From Jesse's Blog

Marty mentioned that I looked good and was still physically strong. He said he couldn’t believe how rational and sane I seemed after all that I’d been through. I just smiled.

That jumped out at me. This is a statement from someone who cares?

 

[BunnySkull]

Is there any dispute that he audited TC?

Assuming he did, and continued to do so, this must mean that both DM and TC were happy with the ongoing arrangement. I can't see DM allowing a known shaky auditor to audit TC in some high-risk situation, and I don't see TC continuing to go along with it if he did not feel he was benefiting from the service.

Marty running Black Ops on TC instead of auditing? Seems unlikely to me. You can blackmail or threaten someone into silence, but coercing them into being a high-profile gushing spokeman seems impossible.

Paul

No I believe Marty audited TC, I'm just saying I think the entire point of the auditing (however it went down or he was processed) was to bring Tom back into the fold and aligned with the goals of DM/ Scientology. Whatever gains Tom might have gotten were secondary to the main point, which was controlling Tom to some degree to stay in the fold and happy with the cult. Maybe controlling/brainwashing Tom Cruise does demonstrate he's a great auditor, but he seems to advertise a kinder, gentler services to the masses now.

The only reports I've read about Marty's auditing (from sources other than Marty) is about his gang bang, hell raising, sec-checking. I don't know if most people want to classify sec-checking as auditing, but you're on the cans and its used constantly in Scientology as people move up.

So from others in Scientology I've read Marty is a scary sec-checking interrogating master. But, Marty himself waxes lyrical about he is a loving, theta dripping, kindly auditor wanting only to help you with spiritual gains.

I will admit maybe its not black and white, and there are some shades of gray in this matter. However, until some others (besides he newly minted sycophants) can attest to Marty being "highly trained" or a great techie, I'm just going to think he's up to his old tricks - namely lying and manipulating people for the "greater good" of LRH.

 

[Dulloldfart]

No I believe Marty audited TC, I'm just saying I think the entire point of the auditing (however it went down or he was processed) was to bring Tom back into the fold and aligned with the goals of DM/ Scientology. Whatever gains Tom might have gotten were secondary to the main point, which was controlling Tom to some degree to stay in the fold and happy with the cult. Maybe controlling/brainwashing Tom Cruise does demonstrate he's a great auditor, but he seems to advertise a kinder, gentler services to the masses now.

I'd agree with all that.

Paul

 

[secretiveoldfag]

To revert to Hubbard's addiction to violence, this is evident in his relationships with his first wife, Polly, his second wife Sara, his two children with Polly, his daughter with Sara, his treatment of Susan Meisner and his treatment of Quentin, to mention only the most notorious early examples of violent behaviour.

 

[TEoS]

I'm sure if someone wrote to the CoS, they would be only too happy to provide a glowing report on Marty's auditing skills...

 

[Terril park]

I will admit maybe its not black and white, and there are some shades of gray in this matter. However, until some others (besides he newly minted sycophants) can attest to Marty being "highly trained" or a great techie, I'm just going to think he's up to his old tricks - namely lying and manipulating people for the "greater good" of LRH.

This comment (besides he newly minted sycophants) is loaded language
designed to belittle.

There is in fact probably no group better qualified to attest to Marty's abilities as an auditor. The are by and large very well trained old timers,
mostly high up on the bridge who have walked away from COS.

 

[AlphOhm]

Do they have auditor courses on the Freewinds?

Or did he just "study tech" there?

What exact class of auditor is Marty Rathbun, anyway?

I had always considered him an auditor with no class.

 

[MrCognition]

After reading Jesse Princes story, it shocks me how someone can still support the philosphy of LRH.

I have tried to read LRH, after I woke up, only to feel like I need a shower to wipe the disgust off of me for this man.

As I read LRH, I can't help but think of the fact he:

Kidnapped his daughter to Cuba
Lied to the Navy to get psychiatric care
Lied about his Education
Died high on psych drugs
Through people over ships, out in the cold sea, when they messed up
Penetrated the U.S. government and stole documents
Created a policy to isolate humans against their will ( slavery )
Not to mention the numerous racial rants in his lectures
Wrote OT levels based on a Sci-fi screenplay for Hollywood

I could go on and on but I won't.

Just can't see how anybody can still support this after finding out the truth about him. Specifically Freezoners. The ones who don't know the truth, I feel sorry for.

 

[Lurker5]

Thank you, Bunny

As I said on my last post, on the last page, that is the major problem. The only person who attests to Marty's training level is Marty himself, who's credibility is lower than most city sewers due to a career of "acceptable truths" and down right astounding lies to the media and others for over two decades.

The only reason he audited Cruise, as Marty himself admits, was to "bring him back to the fold" which to me means more control and coercion techniques (which I guess some indies would call Black Dinatetics, whereas I just think of it as good old fashion Scientology in action.) His mission was to recover Cruise. He did not audit Cruise because he was some magical thetan loving auditor looking out for Cruise's best interest, but because he was their dirty ops guy who would ensure Cruise was recovered one way or another, no matter what it took.

Marty was sent to the Freewinds, after his blow, for a few reasons - intense sec-checking by Wilhere, RPF party and to avoid subpoenas. Marty is the only one claiming it was some vacation he was gifted by DM to study the tech. So I guess do you believe Marty was being punished by DM or given the "gift" of tech training while they were hiding him out on the ship? I think the answer is obvious. I understand you do some training while on the RPF as part of the process, but I don't believe that was DM's first concern for Marty.

The story of his miracle tech training aboard the Freewinds has always stunk to high heaven, but they may have broke Marty's brain to the point he actually believes it. I think Greg Wilhere has that capability given enough time, which he had in abundance with MR.

Again, the only one that attests to Marty's sky high training abilities or levels is old Marty himself. Take that as you will.

Thank you, Bunny - GOOD clarification. VERY GOOD POINT - a recovery mission on TC - by whatever means . . . Business as usual.

 

[Lurker5]

Hello !

After reading Jesse Princes story, it shocks me how someone can still support the philosphy of LRH.

I have tried to read LRH, after I woke up, only to feel like I need a shower to wipe the disgust off of me for this man.

As I read LRH, I can't help but think of the fact he:

Kidnapped his daughter to Cuba
Lied to the Navy to get psychiatric care
Lied about his Education
Died high on psych drugs
Through people over ships, out in the cold sea, when they messed up
Penetrated the U.S. government and stole documents
Created a policy to isolate humans against their will ( slavery )
Not to mention the numerous racial rants in his lectures
Wrote OT levels based on a Sci-fi screenplay for Hollywood

I could go on and on but I won't.

Just can't see how anybody can still support this after finding out the truth about him. Specifically Freezoners. The ones who don't know the truth, I feel sorry for.

Hello, Mr Cog - Sorry I missed you until now.

I agree with you. Glad you are out, and hanging here