JONESTOWN APOLOGIST ALERT

Tigger

Patron Meritorious
JONESTOWN APOLOGIST ALERT ~ PARADISE LOST

Jonestown Apologists Alert: i>"Jonestown: Paradise Lost:" /i> Antidote to Stanley Nelson's Cult Apologist Snake Bite

Jonestown Apologists Alert

There are now disturbing, fresh attempts to sugarcoat the true horror that was People's Temple, the most current being director Stanley Nelson's new film, "Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple." This site is dedicated to exposing this historic fiction about People's Temple (and cult apologists, in general), as well as confronting the self-serving, spineless California power elites that enabled one of the most shamelessly preventable mass murders in modern history.

MONDAY, JANUARY 22, 2007

"Jonestown: Paradise Lost:" Antidote to Stanley Nelson's Cult Apologist Snake Bite

If you haven't seen it yet, be sure not to miss this Saturday's History Channel docudrama, "Jonestown: Paradise Lost," a gripping look at an abominable cult's final four days culminating in one of the most infamous mass murders on record.

Some suicides, yes—but the simple, ugly reality is that these men, women, and little children were brutally murdered, through mental and physical coercion. Consider the body discovered of the woman with nearly every joint in her body yanked apart in a desperate attempt to escape the grasp of cult thugs poisoning her.

Guyana's Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. C. Leslie Mootoo, accompanied the teams that counted the dead hours after the massacre. He found fresh needle marks at the back of the left shoulder blades of 80-90 percent of the victims he examined.
Others had been shot or strangled.
Some of you may have this to compare with the images presented, or reported by some witless film critic, in Director Stanley Nelson's, "Jonestown: Life and Death of the People's Temple." This stark contrast of a film winds down, featuring some poignant music accompanying a narrative of "The Final Note," written by a doomed cult member—either Dick Tropp or Marceline Jones--on the day of the slaughter of these 913 Americans.

"A tiny kitten sits next to me," are some of the lines read, "Watching. A dog barks. The birds gather on the telephone wires. Let all the story of this Peoples Temple be told…." Of course, consistent with the rest of Nelson's revisionist opus, is Mrs. Nelson's (wife Marcia Smith, his script writer) impeccable editing OUT of some of the appalling cult ravings contained in that "Final Note," like the following:

"….We hope that the world will someday realize the ideals of brotherhood, justice and equality that Jim Jones has lived and died for. We have all chosen to die for this cause."

He (Tropp) or she (Mrs. Jones) was speaking on behalf of the 276 murdered children, we presume.

What's critical about "Jonestown: Paradise Lost,, besides being well-done, is its value as a partial antidote to the horrendous cult apologist propaganda of Nelson's film. No, it's not a perfect film. The most egregious error is the one made by just about everyone dealing with the subject, either out of sheer ignorance or inexcusable dishonesty.

That error, of course, is the claim in the film that "At the height of his power….Jim Jones's 'dark' side emerged." Hogwash. The director presents a copy of the New West article, as if to suggest it was The First Expose of People's Temple; we're supposed to assume the Temple was not all that beastly until at least the mid-70's; and that the public shouldn't be concerned with those collaborators—the public officials, politicians, clergy, journalists—that aided and abetted Jones, unwittingly facilitating the impending November, 1978 bloodbath, should not be given their just recognition?

Marshall Kilduff, co-author of this New West article, is every bit as reprehensible as the reporter featured in the program, Tim Reiterman. While Reiterman surely deserves praise for risking his life going to Guyana, he disgraces himself with fabrications in his People's Temple book, "Raven" debunking my father's 1972 Examiner People's Temple expose series--a time period in which he and Kilduff did nothing but sit on their supercilious duffs.

There's enough sordid details in the Kilduff & Rieterman sideshow that these two—like the other upcoming exhibits this People's Temple Hall of Shame—will be awarded a posting all to themselves.

Coming soon.
Jonestown survivor Stephan Jones provided some of the most compelling impute in "Paradise Lost," revealing the pain of having a hideously deranged father. "I knew he was sick from very early on," said Stephen, citing how the "Marxist" Jim Jones had "demoralized, malnourished, and exhausted a population," utilizing widespread "abuse, theft, and torturing of children."

Another cult survivor, Vernon Gosney, related how he had gone to live in Jonestown for, among other reasons, to become "a good socialist." Socialist. That's the time-worn euphemism used by that breed of tyrants such as Cuba's Fidel Castro; his fan Rev. Jones, along with ardent California supporters such as Angela Davis, used it like a mantra.

And, lamentably, this film doesn't show Fidel, Angela, or the freighter-load of other People's Temple cheerleaders, like famed San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen, who assured Californians in 1977 that Jones, who was dunking children down into wells, was "doing the work of the Lord" in Guyana. Oh, yes, that's right; Nelson, Lord of the Cult Apologists, also somehow left all this (and much more) out in his film, too.
Shocker.

As the docudrama shows enthralling reenacted scenes of a young Gosney plotting his escape from the Stalinist prison camp, it then takes the viewer back up to present-day, where the real-life Gosney makes this revealing statement.

"Conditions at Jonestown," he said, "were not conducive to think clearly." A little later on in the film, Gosney again commented on the sensation — "I wasn't thinking clearly"--as he desperately tried to figure how to get out safely with Congressman Leo Ryan's delegation.

Not "thinking clearly"?

Herein is the clue on how Jim Jones controlled his "flock." It is what the cult apologists, from Rebecca Moore to John Hall and all the rest, are frantic about, because it signals the effects of the obvious:

Mind Control. Thought Reform. Brain Washing.

This is about as close as the "Paradise Lost" film comes to providing viewers something of an accurate picture of the People's Temple, and all destructive cults, for that matter. It is a great movie for its humanity in showing, yes, these were human beings, trapped by a monster.

It would have been helpful if the producers could have had Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton discuss the landmark research in his book, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of 'Brainwashing' in China."

They might have also turned to an expert on the work of the late psychologist Margaret Singer, author of "Cults in our Midst." Singer cited the six conditions that create an atmosphere where minds can be controlled:

• Control a person's time and environment, leaving no time for thought

• Create a sense of powerlessness, fear, and dependency

• Manipulate rewards and punishments to suppress former social behavior

• Manipulate rewards and punishments to elicit the desired behavior

• Create a closed system of logic which makes dissenters feel as if something was wrong with them

• Keep recruits unaware about any agenda to control or change them

They could have consulted with other cult experts, such as Rick Ross or Steven Hassan, the latter whose book "Releasing the Bonds" describes the mind control model, BITE, in which a cult leader creates dependency and obedience through control over:

• Behavior
• Information
• Thought
• Emotions

Of course, none of this was discussed in the film. It's not nearly as exciting.

Nonetheless, "Jonestown: Paradise Lost" had a thousand times the integrity of Stanley Nelson's "Jonestown: Life and Death of the People's Temple."

Maybe the biggest problem was Stanley's shocking naiveté entering the portals of the Temple. He looks at it like it's some kind of "social activist revolution" that "brought people together," almost as if he has 60's brain-lock. Here is what he told interviewer Susan Gerhard last October in her "SF360" web log:

"I went into it knowing so little about it," admitted Nelson, "I didn't know that Jim Jones was such a part of the political social establishment of the Bay Area. I didn't understand how he was coddled and courted by politicians."

Funny thing, too, how Nelson refused to examine that most vital part. Without all that "coddling and courting" (Jones did some of it himself, too, especially with cash payoffs to the newspapers), the road to the Jonestown Massacre would have never been built.

The next part of his statement, however, truly reveals Stan's Alice in Wonderland perception of the story:

"In the bigger pictures: I learned why and how people would join Peoples Temple and why and how they would stay and hold on to this thing, even thought they saw it going wrong."

"They wanted to hold onto this dream," reasons the director of this "acclaimed" film, "they held on as it led to disaster."

Held on to it. As tightly as, say, those Temple cult killers held down and yanked out all the joints in that doomed woman's body on November 18, 1978 in Mr. Jones's gulag.

Stanley Nelson—the same one they're talking about giving an Oscar nomination to tomorrow?

Keep prayin', one and all.

POSTED BY TOM KINSOLVING AT 9:30 PM    

LABELS: PARADISE LOST
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RELATED ARTICLES
Kinsolving Confronts Stanley Nelson
MADMAN IN OUR MIDST: Jim Jones and the California Cover Up
Stoen Apologizes To Kinsolving
 
 

 

 
 

Tachikoma

Patron
For those that wish to learn more of the history of what happened at Jonestown, you can go here:


http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/

Some very interesting parallels between Hubbard/C of S:

To attract new members to his "church," Jones widely publicized his services, promising miraculous healings where cancers would be removed and the blind made to see.
Very reminiscent of the "throw away your glasses" and the Purif (as well as the claim of Dianazine) "running out cancer"

Each new potential member was greeted with personal warmth rarely encountered in the more traditional churches.

The (in)famous new member "love bomb".

The highest level of commitment that could be demonstrated was when an individual or family lived at the People’s Temple facilities, handing over all personal property, savings, and social security cheques to the Temple.

"Welcome to the Sea Org".

From the earliest stages of their indoctrination each member was taught that the achievement of a higher spirituality would require a struggle against their own weaknesses.

It is never what is wrong with the "Church", it must be you.

Any areas of resistance an individual harboured against the church were quickly suppressed as being an indication of that person’s lack of faith.

You must have overts or missed withholds.

Jones would regularly bring critics before the assembly and chastise them for their ‘unbelief.’ He would then require other members of the group to mete out the necessary punishment. Parents would publicly beat their children for transgressions while husbands and wives would be required to punish each other. In this way, each person was made personally responsible for the action and had to find a way to justify and rationalise it.

Welcome to the concept of "Heavy Ethics". Please leave your self-esteem and self-respect at the door.

Any idea about leaving the People’s Temple was quickly dismissed by the individual for a number of reasons. Their total commitment to the church usually meant that they had isolated themselves from their family and friends, whether from lack of association or open enmity. To leave the fold of the church would mean either admitting their mistakes to family and friends or being alone without any support group.

Self-intimidation or loathing is often the nastiest kind. How can one admit to others that they failed because they were wrong about something?

The community was situated in the middle of a jungle with armed guards along the few roads that led to civilisation. Even if one succeeded in leaving the complex, he had no passport, papers or money to help him to escape.

Applies and compares to the Apollo Voyage days as well as the GOLD/FLAG Int. Base of today.

By his early teens, Jones was no longer interested in the normal activities of the other boys. He was much more interested in the emotional and religious fervour he found at the Gospel Tabernacle.

And Hubbard was "learning Chinese mysticism at the knees of great wise men in the orient" as a teen...

Jones considered himself a leader among his peers and looked down upon the behaviour of other boys his age that he considered frivolous and sinful. Yet, he strongly feared rejection and would retaliate angrily at any adverse criticism or disagreement that he saw as betrayal.

We are all aware of how Hubbard viewed his detractors, even from the earliest days in Wichita, Kansas. Dispersions were cast upon any detractor or naysayer, often in the form of a letter to the FBI denouncing them as "Communists", "Nazi sympathizers" or simply "not of sound mind"

Jones began to question his faith, finding it difficult to reconcile his belief in a loving and merciful God with the reality of suffering and poverty he saw around him. He now proclaimed that there was no God.

"Jesus? The man on the cross? There was no Christ..."

It occurrs to me, looking at the timeline for Jonestown, if perhaps Hubbard did not sit back and make notes of what transpired. He certainly would have been happy to see Leo J. Ryan out of the way, since Ryan was also looking toward Scientology while he was alive.

Leo_j_ryan.jpg
 
Last edited:

Tigger

Patron Meritorious
Good comparison anaylsis. When the curtains are peeled back on most destructive, mind-altering cults, they have many things in common and operate the same way, whether they be religious, political, business....whatever.

I think that's why it's a good thing for ex members of all such cults to get together to compare notes...sometimes it is easier to see and understand what happened to them when they look at other cults and cult survivors.

Tigger
 

lighthart2000

New Member
Comparing cults

I have been involved in the study of thought reform, coercive/high demand groups, with the primary focus on how to assist leavers (or graduates) recover from their cult experience for the last 15 years. Of special concern to me is the Second Generation Graduate (SGG) SGGs don't have a pre-cult persona to return to as do the adults, thus have special issues to contend with in their cult recovery. As a SGG myself I can offer some guidance.

Having "retired" from the more activist role, I am open to help those that seek to heal from the cult experience(s). I can provide a fairly extensive list of resources (books, organizations, workshops, recovery groups) for the cult graduate. Having grown up and matriculated from my own pet cult I can relate to many thought reform techniques that are common in these groups.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if are interested in processing your cult experience or are feeling uncertain on how to move forward once you have taken the important step of exiting your own "high demand" group.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
From http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol29I4/page04.htm:

Colonel Prouty noted evidence of the involvement of a larger force in the operation: “The Joint Chiefs of Staff had prepared air shipments of hundreds of body bags. They didn’t normally keep that many in any one place. Within hours, they began to shuttle them down to Georgetown, the main city. They couldn’t possibly have done that without prior knowledge that it was going to happen. It shows that there was prior planning.”

Prouty said, “We would provide the agency with the things they were requesting, without any questions. That’s the way the business works.”

At Jonestown, he said, the JCS provided the body bags, the airlift and all the rest on a timetable that shows advance knowledge. “The JCS wouldn’t have moved at all on their own,” he said. “They didn’t give a damn about Jonestown.” These and other unusual events, he noted, “are the kinds of earmarks that define the hand of American intelligence.”

Provided without comment from me.

Paul
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I have been involved in the study of thought reform, coercive/high demand groups, with the primary focus on how to assist leavers (or graduates) recover from their cult experience for the last 15 years. Of special concern to me is the Second Generation Graduate (SGG) SGGs don't have a pre-cult persona to return to as do the adults, thus have special issues to contend with in their cult recovery. As a SGG myself I can offer some guidance.

Having "retired" from the more activist role, I am open to help those that seek to heal from the cult experience(s). I can provide a fairly extensive list of resources (books, organizations, workshops, recovery groups) for the cult graduate. Having grown up and matriculated from my own pet cult I can relate to many thought reform techniques that are common in these groups.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if are interested in processing your cult experience or are feeling uncertain on how to move forward once you have taken the important step of exiting your own "high demand" group.

Thankyou for your offer. :) I am second generation - and there is a third and fourth - and it does particularly interest me. I started a thread about this elsewhere on this board.

I am fine personally, after years of working it all out, but I am sure there are many others out there who are not.

Perhaps you could post some helpful sites in the links section? There are lots of people in the 'just reading' stage.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I have been involved in the study of thought reform, coercive/high demand groups, with the primary focus on how to assist leavers (or graduates) recover from their cult experience for the last 15 years. Of special concern to me is the Second Generation Graduate (SGG) SGGs don't have a pre-cult persona to return to as do the adults, thus have special issues to contend with in their cult recovery. As a SGG myself I can offer some guidance.

Having "retired" from the more activist role, I am open to help those that seek to heal from the cult experience(s). I can provide a fairly extensive list of resources (books, organizations, workshops, recovery groups) for the cult graduate. Having grown up and matriculated from my own pet cult I can relate to many thought reform techniques that are common in these groups.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if are interested in processing your cult experience or are feeling uncertain on how to move forward once you have taken the important step of exiting your own "high demand" group.

Welcome Lighthart!!

Good to have you here.

I'm looking forward to your contribution!
 

joeyjosef

New Member
Tommy was a Scientologist???

JONESTOWN APOLOGIST ALERT ~ PARADISE LOST

Jonestown Apologists Alert: i>"Jonestown: Paradise Lost:" /i> Antidote to Stanley Nelson's Cult Apologist Snake Bite

Jonestown Apologists Alert

There are now disturbing, fresh attempts to sugarcoat the true horror that was People's Temple, the most current being director Stanley Nelson's new film, "Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple." This site is dedicated to exposing this historic fiction about People's Temple (and cult apologists, in general), as well as confronting the self-serving, spineless California power elites that enabled one of the most shamelessly preventable mass murders in modern history.

MONDAY, JANUARY 22, 2007

"Jonestown: Paradise Lost:" Antidote to Stanley Nelson's Cult Apologist Snake Bite

If you haven't seen it yet, be sure not to miss this Saturday's History Channel docudrama, "Jonestown: Paradise Lost," a gripping look at an abominable cult's final four days culminating in one of the most infamous mass murders on record.

Some suicides, yes—but the simple, ugly reality is that these men, women, and little children were brutally murdered, through mental and physical coercion. Consider the body discovered of the woman with nearly every joint in her body yanked apart in a desperate attempt to escape the grasp of cult thugs poisoning her.

Guyana's Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. C. Leslie Mootoo, accompanied the teams that counted the dead hours after the massacre. He found fresh needle marks at the back of the left shoulder blades of 80-90 percent of the victims he examined.
Others had been shot or strangled.
Some of you may have this to compare with the images presented, or reported by some witless film critic, in Director Stanley Nelson's, "Jonestown: Life and Death of the People's Temple." This stark contrast of a film winds down, featuring some poignant music accompanying a narrative of "The Final Note," written by a doomed cult member—either Dick Tropp or Marceline Jones--on the day of the slaughter of these 913 Americans.

"A tiny kitten sits next to me," are some of the lines read, "Watching. A dog barks. The birds gather on the telephone wires. Let all the story of this Peoples Temple be told…." Of course, consistent with the rest of Nelson's revisionist opus, is Mrs. Nelson's (wife Marcia Smith, his script writer) impeccable editing OUT of some of the appalling cult ravings contained in that "Final Note," like the following:

"….We hope that the world will someday realize the ideals of brotherhood, justice and equality that Jim Jones has lived and died for. We have all chosen to die for this cause."

He (Tropp) or she (Mrs. Jones) was speaking on behalf of the 276 murdered children, we presume.

What's critical about "Jonestown: Paradise Lost,, besides being well-done, is its value as a partial antidote to the horrendous cult apologist propaganda of Nelson's film. No, it's not a perfect film. The most egregious error is the one made by just about everyone dealing with the subject, either out of sheer ignorance or inexcusable dishonesty.

That error, of course, is the claim in the film that "At the height of his power….Jim Jones's 'dark' side emerged." Hogwash. The director presents a copy of the New West article, as if to suggest it was The First Expose of People's Temple; we're supposed to assume the Temple was not all that beastly until at least the mid-70's; and that the public shouldn't be concerned with those collaborators—the public officials, politicians, clergy, journalists—that aided and abetted Jones, unwittingly facilitating the impending November, 1978 bloodbath, should not be given their just recognition?

Marshall Kilduff, co-author of this New West article, is every bit as reprehensible as the reporter featured in the program, Tim Reiterman. While Reiterman surely deserves praise for risking his life going to Guyana, he disgraces himself with fabrications in his People's Temple book, "Raven" debunking my father's 1972 Examiner People's Temple expose series--a time period in which he and Kilduff did nothing but sit on their supercilious duffs.

There's enough sordid details in the Kilduff & Rieterman sideshow that these two—like the other upcoming exhibits this People's Temple Hall of Shame—will be awarded a posting all to themselves.

Coming soon.
Jonestown survivor Stephan Jones provided some of the most compelling impute in "Paradise Lost," revealing the pain of having a hideously deranged father. "I knew he was sick from very early on," said Stephen, citing how the "Marxist" Jim Jones had "demoralized, malnourished, and exhausted a population," utilizing widespread "abuse, theft, and torturing of children."

Another cult survivor, Vernon Gosney, related how he had gone to live in Jonestown for, among other reasons, to become "a good socialist." Socialist. That's the time-worn euphemism used by that breed of tyrants such as Cuba's Fidel Castro; his fan Rev. Jones, along with ardent California supporters such as Angela Davis, used it like a mantra.

And, lamentably, this film doesn't show Fidel, Angela, or the freighter-load of other People's Temple cheerleaders, like famed San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen, who assured Californians in 1977 that Jones, who was dunking children down into wells, was "doing the work of the Lord" in Guyana. Oh, yes, that's right; Nelson, Lord of the Cult Apologists, also somehow left all this (and much more) out in his film, too.
Shocker.

As the docudrama shows enthralling reenacted scenes of a young Gosney plotting his escape from the Stalinist prison camp, it then takes the viewer back up to present-day, where the real-life Gosney makes this revealing statement.

"Conditions at Jonestown," he said, "were not conducive to think clearly." A little later on in the film, Gosney again commented on the sensation — "I wasn't thinking clearly"--as he desperately tried to figure how to get out safely with Congressman Leo Ryan's delegation.

Not "thinking clearly"?

Herein is the clue on how Jim Jones controlled his "flock." It is what the cult apologists, from Rebecca Moore to John Hall and all the rest, are frantic about, because it signals the effects of the obvious:

Mind Control. Thought Reform. Brain Washing.

This is about as close as the "Paradise Lost" film comes to providing viewers something of an accurate picture of the People's Temple, and all destructive cults, for that matter. It is a great movie for its humanity in showing, yes, these were human beings, trapped by a monster.

It would have been helpful if the producers could have had Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton discuss the landmark research in his book, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of 'Brainwashing' in China."

They might have also turned to an expert on the work of the late psychologist Margaret Singer, author of "Cults in our Midst." Singer cited the six conditions that create an atmosphere where minds can be controlled:

• Control a person's time and environment, leaving no time for thought

• Create a sense of powerlessness, fear, and dependency

• Manipulate rewards and punishments to suppress former social behavior

• Manipulate rewards and punishments to elicit the desired behavior

• Create a closed system of logic which makes dissenters feel as if something was wrong with them

• Keep recruits unaware about any agenda to control or change them

They could have consulted with other cult experts, such as Rick Ross or Steven Hassan, the latter whose book "Releasing the Bonds" describes the mind control model, BITE, in which a cult leader creates dependency and obedience through control over:

• Behavior
• Information
• Thought
• Emotions

Of course, none of this was discussed in the film. It's not nearly as exciting.

Nonetheless, "Jonestown: Paradise Lost" had a thousand times the integrity of Stanley Nelson's "Jonestown: Life and Death of the People's Temple."

Maybe the biggest problem was Stanley's shocking naiveté entering the portals of the Temple. He looks at it like it's some kind of "social activist revolution" that "brought people together," almost as if he has 60's brain-lock. Here is what he told interviewer Susan Gerhard last October in her "SF360" web log:

"I went into it knowing so little about it," admitted Nelson, "I didn't know that Jim Jones was such a part of the political social establishment of the Bay Area. I didn't understand how he was coddled and courted by politicians."

Funny thing, too, how Nelson refused to examine that most vital part. Without all that "coddling and courting" (Jones did some of it himself, too, especially with cash payoffs to the newspapers), the road to the Jonestown Massacre would have never been built.

The next part of his statement, however, truly reveals Stan's Alice in Wonderland perception of the story:

"In the bigger pictures: I learned why and how people would join Peoples Temple and why and how they would stay and hold on to this thing, even thought they saw it going wrong."

"They wanted to hold onto this dream," reasons the director of this "acclaimed" film, "they held on as it led to disaster."

Held on to it. As tightly as, say, those Temple cult killers held down and yanked out all the joints in that doomed woman's body on November 18, 1978 in Mr. Jones's gulag.

Stanley Nelson—the same one they're talking about giving an Oscar nomination to tomorrow?

Keep prayin', one and all.

POSTED BY TOM KINSOLVING AT 9:30 PM    

LABELS: PARADISE LOST
0 COMMENTS:
Post a Comment


Older Post Home
Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
GOOD INFORMATION

The Rick A. Ross Institute
Freedom Of Mind Center
Cults On Campus
Apologetics Index
Cult Awareness And Information Centre
F.A.C.T. Net, Inc
 
RELATED ARTICLES
Kinsolving Confronts Stanley Nelson
MADMAN IN OUR MIDST: Jim Jones and the California Cover Up
Stoen Apologizes To Kinsolving
 
 

 

 

I thought this forum was for ex-OT's??? Folks, Tommy Kinsolving was NEVER an OT, NEVER in the organization.........why is he here, bragging about some BS that has nothing to do with Ex OT's????????
Typical Tommy.
 
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