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Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientology

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Elliott
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. I've been in and outside of Gold Base. It is, by all means, a concentration camp. Security around the compound is stifling. BTW, Gold Base is much closer to San Jacinto than it is to Hemet.

Details please. So few people have been inside who are active here. I'd like to hear more about how you came to be on the base and what you experienced.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

Details please. So few people have been inside who are active here. I'd like to hear more about how you came to be on the base and what you experienced.

Working on OSA projects in the 90s.
 
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. I've been in and outside of Gold Base. It is, by all means, a concentration camp. Security around the compound is stifling. BTW, Gold Base is much closer to San Jacinto than it is to Hemet.

i've read headley's and hawkin's books

yeah...

that security is...

i dunno, the congealed paranoia the old man left behind

and it's so goddam stifling it's fuckin' stifling the whole goddam thing around the globe

i wouldn't worry about a mass death there however
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

i've read headley's and hawkin's books

yeah...

that security is...

i dunno, the congealed paranoia the old man left behind

No, paranoia would be focused on preventing attackers from getting IN.

Keeping people from getting OUT is congealed evil, the evil of a supremely controlling personality who doesn't want anyone to escape his domination. Whether LRH or DM.
 
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

No, paranoia would be focused on preventing attackers from getting IN.

Keeping people from getting OUT is congealed evil, the evil of a supremely controlling personality who doesn't want anyone to escape his domination. Whether LRH or DM.

it's DM...

as domineering and manipulative as our beloved founder could be people could leave the apollo
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

it's DM...

as domineering and manipulative as our beloved founder could be people could leave the apollo

Yet again, CBS, you misguidedly Post a woefully inaccurate, completely misleading and willfully incomplete broad statement of "fact" about a person you never knew in a place you never were. :eyeroll:

In the early days of the Apollo leaving the SO from the Ship was overall, in most cases, not that difficult, but most assuredly, often emotionally traumatic and personally devastating with the "head trip" that was run on the "treasonous PTS/DB/SP/Out Ethics dog". The last thing El Ron needed at that time was for someone that was disaffected to somehow "Jump Ship" and spill the beans to the locals. It was a matter of trying to keep security "In" and prevent "Shore Flaps".

Over the years El Ron steadily increased the difficulty in leaving, culminating in the "Leaving and Leaves" Policy, which was fully in effect on the Apollo before the move to land.

Once on land, leaving Flag--from El Ron direct orders--became even more arduous and daunting a task and most often took months and months.

From my personal knowledge, El Ron's primary concern about people wanting to leave was if they were in the same location as Hisself and posed a potential threat to Hisself's personal "security".

The genus of the current modus operandi at Int, etc was first put in place by El Ron Hisself in the latter '70's and "doubled down" on by Hisself in the early '80's.

Face:)
 
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Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

Yet again, CBS, you misguidedly Post a woefully inaccurate, completely misleading and willfully incomplete broad statement of "fact" about a person you never knew in a place you never were. :eyeroll:

In the early days of the Apollo leaving the SO from the Ship was, in most cases, not that difficult. The last thing El Ron needed at that time was for someone that was disaffected to somehow "Jump Ship" and spill the beans to the locals. It was a matter of trying to keep security "In" and prevent "Shore Flaps".

Over the years El Ron steadily increased the difficulty in leaving, culminating in the "Leaving and Leaves" Policy, which was fully in effect on the Apollo before the move to land.

Once on land, leaving Flag--from El Ron direct orders--became even more arduous and daunting a task and most often took months and months.

From my personal knowledge, El Ron's primary concern about people wanting to leave was if they were in the same location as Hisself and posed a potential threat to Hisself's personal "security".

The genus of the current modus operandi at Int, etc was first put in place by El Ron Hisself in the latter '70's and "doubled down" on by Hisself in the early '80's.

Face:)

i wasn't there face but i've read so many accounts from people who left the apollo

thank you for further firsthand information

i don't know about the early eighties...

that might have been hisself or maybe not

leaving with permission becomes increasingly difficult but the particulars of int now are such that escape is a challenge. down in clearwater you can just walk away. (yes, lisa couldn't walk away but someone will surely start shriking about lisa anyway)
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

i wasn't there face but i've read so many accounts from people who left the apollo

thank you for further firsthand information

i don't know about the early eighties...

that might have been hisself or maybe not

leaving with permission becomes increasingly difficult but the particulars of int now are such that escape is a challenge. down in clearwater you can just walk away. (yes, lisa couldn't walk away but someone will surely start shriking about lisa anyway)

Thank you, CBS. Well, the information about the early '80's is to be found here on the Board and elsewhere on the net.

Sorry CBS...If you think someone can just "walk away", easy peasy down in Clearwater you are, sadly yet again, making a woefully inaccurate, completely misleading and willfully incomplete broad statement of "fact" about something you were never a part of in a place you've never been. It was very difficult to blow from day one at the FLB and, depending on who and what you were, you would not just be immediately searched for and pursued on plausible/possible "escape" routes, you were pursued all the way to plausible/possible destinations. By the early '80's it was even more difficult to successfully "blow" and, based on what I have read and been told, it's even more difficult currently.

Face:)

EDIT PS: Upon what credible sources and information do you base your implied "factual" statement that Lisa was an isolated case of imprisonment, mind fucking, physical abuse and abject neglect against ones will and well being in Clearwater when there are numerous first hand accounts of such from and about others on ESMB and the Net?
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

i wasn't there face but i've read so many accounts from people who left the apollo

thank you for further firsthand information

i don't know about the early eighties...

that might have been hisself or maybe not

leaving with permission becomes increasingly difficult but the particulars of int now are such that escape is a challenge. down in clearwater you can just walk away. (yes, lisa couldn't walk away but someone will surely start shriking about lisa anyway)

No, it's not that easy to just "walk away" from the $cientology cult (or any cult for that matter). There's a lot of mental/emotional turmoil occurring with deft cultist pressures before that happens if at all. $cientologists using elcon tek (you know, the very garbage you incessantly defend) such as the blow drill, the greatest good thought stopping cliche, "ethics" emotional blackmail, spying on each other, family members used as cult anchors, losing one's eternity, posted guards and all the accumulated cult indoctrination in play to keep a cult member from leaving. It's elcon cult policy to stop $cientologists from leaving.

The more you post it's apparent you don't understand what a cult is ... such as $cientology and how it really works.

BLOWN FOR GOOD - Marc Headley (Excerpt)
http://blownforgood.com/?page_id=39
Blow Drill – "Similar to a fire drill, a blow drill is called when someone leaves the Int Base without authorization. This could be from someone escaping over the perimeter fence or found to be missing at one of the regular musters or roll calls that are held throughout the day to account for all staff. Several staff are dispatched to bus stations, airports, local hotels, etc. to locate the person. Major airline flight records are searched for tickets being purchased under the staff member’s name and the person is generally hunted down until “recovered” or they have been declared officially blown and not able to be found. Blow drills have taken anywhere from 3 hours to 3 weeks, and involves anywhere from 20 to 50 staff. Mostly this depends on how and why the person blew and what the risk is to let them leave versus their necessity to be gotten back to the property."

Death of a Scientologist: Why Annie Broeker, Famous in the Church, Had to Die in Secret (Excerpt)
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/annie_broeker_ann_tidman_scientology.php
"On November 17, 1992, Annie began her escape attempt, taking a cab to Ontario airport, where she planned to take several flights to join Logan in Nova Scotia.

In a videotaped interview, Rathbun explained how he was sent on a mad cross-country dash to hunt Annie down and bring her back. (At the time, Rathbun was Miscavige's chief "enforcer" in the church.)

[video=youtube;n1x3uyogNsY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1x3uyogNsY[/video]

After Rathbun caught up to her at Logan Airport in Boston, Annie seemed resigned to her fate -- as Rathbun says, once she spotted him, her shoulders sagged, and any intention she had of continuing on just evaporated. Taking no chances that she might change her mind if she and Rathbun waited for a morning flight, Miscavige had her flown back that same night on John Travolta's private jet, Rathbun says."


Freedom Of Mind - Steve Hassan
The BITE Model

https://freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php#behavior
"Many people think of mind control as an ambiguous, mystical process that cannot be defined in concrete terms. In reality, mind control refers to a specific set of methods and techniques, such as hypnosis or thought- stopping, that influence how a person thinks, feels, and acts. Like many bodies of knowledge, it is not inherently good or evil. If mind control techniques are used to empower an individual to have more choice, and authority for his life remains within himself, the effects can be beneficial. For example, benevolent mind control can be used to help people quit smoking without affecting any other behavior. Mind control becomes destructive when the locus of control is external and it is used to undermine a person’s ability to think and act independently.

As employed by the most destructive cults, mind control seeks nothing less than to disrupt an individual’s authentic identity and reconstruct it in the image of the cult leader. I developed the BITE model to help people determine whether or not a group is practicing destructive mind control. The BITE model helps people understand how cults suppress individual member's uniqueness and creativity. BITE stands for the cult's control of an individual's Behavior, Intellect, Thoughts, and Emotions.

It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mindcontrolled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

Destructive mind control is not just used by cults. Click here for our Human Trafficking BITE Model.


The BITE Model

I. Behavior Control
II. Information Control
III. Thought Control
IV. Emotional Control

Behavior Control
1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedience

Information Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

Thought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family"
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

Thank you, CBS. Well, the information about the early '80's is to be found here on the Board and elsewhere on the net.

Sorry CBS...If you think someone can just "walk away", easy peasy down in Clearwater you are, sadly yet again, making a woefully inaccurate, completely misleading and willfully incomplete broad statement of "fact" about something you were never a part of in a place you've never been. It was very difficult to blow from day one at the FLB and, depending on who and what you were, you would not just be immediately searched for and pursued on plausible/possible "escape" routes, you were pursued all the way to plausible/possible destinations. By the early '80's it was even more difficult to successfully "blow" and, based on what I have read and been told, it's even more difficult currently.

I blew in the early 80's from FLB. It took some pre-planning, but it could be done.

It was easier for me, in that I still had some cash with me, and I had family willing to help.

I had them pre-pay a flight, and I went immediately at the start of my meal break. I had study after my meal break, so I had a 3 hour window before they even started looking for me, by which point I was already in the air.

For a guy with no money and no outside helpers, it would be much more difficult.

For an attractive woman willing to do anything she had to, it would probably be easier: put non-SO clothes under your SO clothes, exit the building, walk briskly to someplace where you can shed your SO clothes. Then grab a bus out of the immediate area, find a bar, and let some guy take you home. In the morning, talk him into driving you to someplace like Orlando and giving you train fare. Alternately, get to Tampa and find a battered woman's shelter.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

I blew in the early 80's from FLB. It took some pre-planning, but it could be done.

It was easier for me, in that I still had some cash with me, and I had family willing to help.

I had them pre-pay a flight, and I went immediately at the start of my meal break. I had study after my meal break, so I had a 3 hour window before they even started looking for me, by which point I was already in the air.

For a guy with no money and no outside helpers, it would be much more difficult.

For an attractive woman willing to do anything she had to, it would probably be easier: put non-SO clothes under your SO clothes, exit the building, walk briskly to someplace where you can shed your SO clothes. Then grab a bus out of the immediate area, find a bar, and let some guy take you home. In the morning, talk him into driving you to someplace like Orlando and giving you train fare. Alternately, get to Tampa and find a battered woman's shelter.


:thumbsup::clap:

It could be done, for sure. But, you had to have some dough, somewhere and someone to go to, the right post or circumstances, be a US citizen or have (most unlikely) possession of your Passport (or be willing to "lay waste" to the CofS at your Consulate or Embassy), etc, etc. If you were on the RPF, if you were married--especially if you had children--it was even more difficult and without dough, somewhere and someone to go to it was virtually impossible unless you had the momentary opportunity, presence of mind and downright guts and fortitude to walk away from your spouse and/or children a la Rinder and, whatever my opinion or your opinion of is of him, it took some serious gonads with a very broken Heart to do what he did. :yes:

Face:)

EDIT PS: There wasn't a "Network" or easy way to locate and connect with former Scns out in the world when I left...I was very fortunate that I had some dough, a couple of very kind family members, real world marketable experience and skills and a college education. Even with that, the first few years were most daunting, bordering at times on desperate--to say the least--for me, my wife and children. I cannot fathom what others less fortunate have had to go through...Truly sad and cruel.
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

I blew in the early 80's from FLB. It took some pre-planning, but it could be done.

It was easier for me, in that I still had some cash with me, and I had family willing to help.

I had them pre-pay a flight, and I went immediately at the start of my meal break. I had study after my meal break, so I had a 3 hour window before they even started looking for me, by which point I was already in the air.

For a guy with no money and no outside helpers, it would be much more difficult.

For an attractive woman willing to do anything she had to, it would probably be easier: put non-SO clothes under your SO clothes, exit the building, walk briskly to someplace where you can shed your SO clothes. Then grab a bus out of the immediate area, find a bar, and let some guy take you home. In the morning, talk him into driving you to someplace like Orlando and giving you train fare. Alternately, get to Tampa and find a battered woman's shelter.

:thumbsup::clap:

It could be done, for sure. But, you had to have some dough, somewhere and someone to go to, the right post or circumstances, be a US citizen or have (most unlikely) possession of your Passport (or be willing to "lay waste" to the CofS at your Consulate or Embassy), etc, etc. If you were on the RPF, if you were married--especially if you had children--it was even more difficult and without dough, somewhere and someone to go to it was virtually impossible unless you had the momentary opportunity, presence of mind and downright guts and fortitude to walk away from your spouse and/or children a la Rinder and, whatever my opinion or your opinion of is of him, it took some serious gonads with a very broken Heart to do what he did. :yes:

Face:)

EDIT PS: There wasn't a "Network" or easy way to locate and connect with former Scns out in the world when I left...I was very fortunate that I had some dough, a couple of very kind family members, real world marketable experience and skills and a college education. Even with that, the first few years were most daunting, bordering at times on desperate--to say the least--for me, my wife and children. I cannot fathom what others less fortunate have had to go through...Truly sad and cruel.

There's XSEAORG (In USA of Canada Call toll free 1-866-XSEAORG - In UK (London) call 0208 864 4940) available. I was staff so leaving was somewhat easier than what the s/o people are encapsulated with.
 
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

No, it's not that easy to just "walk away" from the $cientology cult (or any cult for that matter). There's a lot of mental/emotional turmoil occurring with deft cultist pressures before that happens if at all. $cientologists using elcon tek (you know, the very garbage you incessantly defend) such as the blow drill, the greatest good thought stopping cliche, "ethics" emotional blackmail, spying on each other, family members used as cult anchors, losing one's eternity, posted guards and all the accumulated cult indoctrination in play to keep a cult member from leaving. It's elcon cult policy to stop $cientologists from leaving.

The more you post it's apparent you don't understand what a cult is ... such as $cientology and how it really works.

BLOWN FOR GOOD - Marc Headley (Excerpt)
http://blownforgood.com/?page_id=39
Blow Drill – "Similar to a fire drill, a blow drill is called when someone leaves the Int Base without authorization. This could be from someone escaping over the perimeter fence or found to be missing at one of the regular musters or roll calls that are held throughout the day to account for all staff. Several staff are dispatched to bus stations, airports, local hotels, etc. to locate the person. Major airline flight records are searched for tickets being purchased under the staff member’s name and the person is generally hunted down until “recovered” or they have been declared officially blown and not able to be found. Blow drills have taken anywhere from 3 hours to 3 weeks, and involves anywhere from 20 to 50 staff. Mostly this depends on how and why the person blew and what the risk is to let them leave versus their necessity to be gotten back to the property."

Death of a Scientologist: Why Annie Broeker, Famous in the Church, Had to Die in Secret (Excerpt)
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/annie_broeker_ann_tidman_scientology.php
"On November 17, 1992, Annie began her escape attempt, taking a cab to Ontario airport, where she planned to take several flights to join Logan in Nova Scotia.

In a videotaped interview, Rathbun explained how he was sent on a mad cross-country dash to hunt Annie down and bring her back. (At the time, Rathbun was Miscavige's chief "enforcer" in the church.)

[video=youtube;n1x3uyogNsY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1x3uyogNsY[/video]

After Rathbun caught up to her at Logan Airport in Boston, Annie seemed resigned to her fate -- as Rathbun says, once she spotted him, her shoulders sagged, and any intention she had of continuing on just evaporated. Taking no chances that she might change her mind if she and Rathbun waited for a morning flight, Miscavige had her flown back that same night on John Travolta's private jet, Rathbun says."


Freedom Of Mind - Steve Hassan
The BITE Model

https://freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php#behavior
"Many people think of mind control as an ambiguous, mystical process that cannot be defined in concrete terms. In reality, mind control refers to a specific set of methods and techniques, such as hypnosis or thought- stopping, that influence how a person thinks, feels, and acts. Like many bodies of knowledge, it is not inherently good or evil. If mind control techniques are used to empower an individual to have more choice, and authority for his life remains within himself, the effects can be beneficial. For example, benevolent mind control can be used to help people quit smoking without affecting any other behavior. Mind control becomes destructive when the locus of control is external and it is used to undermine a person’s ability to think and act independently.

As employed by the most destructive cults, mind control seeks nothing less than to disrupt an individual’s authentic identity and reconstruct it in the image of the cult leader. I developed the BITE model to help people determine whether or not a group is practicing destructive mind control. The BITE model helps people understand how cults suppress individual member's uniqueness and creativity. BITE stands for the cult's control of an individual's Behavior, Intellect, Thoughts, and Emotions.

It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mindcontrolled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

Destructive mind control is not just used by cults. Click here for our Human Trafficking BITE Model.


The BITE Model

I. Behavior Control
II. Information Control
III. Thought Control
IV. Emotional Control

Behavior Control
1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedience

Information Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

Thought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family"

i defend auditing and auditor training FBM

and i like this post a lot; this is good work

yeah, this kind of shit gets pulled all the time in CoS, but, ironically the materials themselves contain all the antidotes to these poisons. to repeat a simile i've posted before it seems like ron locks you in a prison and gives you a hacksaw along with the complete instructions for it's use...

it's far easier to enslave someone than it is to free them. for all the high-flying rhetoric there is in praise of freedom not many people like the idea much less the reality of freedom. security. that's what people like

but for those of us who will "live free or die!" as we say back in the 'shire those lrh/csi materials have some high octane glow fuel and for us crisschins who are intent upon loving our neighbor as we love ourselves the imprimatur has a fine toolbox for treating many forms of distress
 
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

jee-yay-ziss ET...

FLB ain't fukkin alcatraz f'crissakes

ya wanna walk you just start walkin'

and it's in the sea org that the tight discipline exists. outer orgs use all the psychological rhetoric, but it's rhetoric, shadows...

and it's not brainwashing, even in the sea org. it's indoctrination, discipline and sequestering and there's a substantial difference. go watch "tge manchurian candidate" to see brainwashing
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

i defend auditing and auditor training FBM

and i like this post a lot; this is good work

yeah, this kind of shit gets pulled all the time in CoS, but, ironically the materials themselves contain all the antidotes to these poisons. to repeat a simile i've posted before it seems like ron locks you in a prison and gives you a hacksaw along with the complete instructions for it's use...

it's far easier to enslave someone than it is to free them. for all the high-flying rhetoric there is in praise of freedom not many people like the idea much less the reality of freedom. security. that's what people like

but for those of us who will "live free or die!" as we say back in the 'shire those lrh/csi materials have some high octane glow fuel and for us crisschins who are intent upon loving our neighbor as we love ourselves the imprimatur has a fine toolbox for treating many forms of distress

T.R. Lie is so blase and underwhelming.

tr-l-featured.jpg

tr-l.gif


Now, Elcon was a sociopathic cult leader same as DM is, $cientology is a destructive cult with striking similarities to the PT and all your evasion isn't going to change that.
 
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Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

T.R. Lie is so blase and underwhelming.

tr-l-featured.jpg

tr-l.gif


Now, Elcon was a sociopathic cult leader same as DM is, $cientology is a destructive cult with striking similarities to the PT and all your evasion isn't going to change that.

i am a christian FBM

the nazarene instructs us to speak the simple truth...
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

i defend auditing and auditor training FBM

and i like this post a lot; this is good work

yeah, this kind of shit gets pulled all the time in CoS, but, ironically the materials themselves contain all the antidotes to these poisons. to repeat a simile i've posted before it seems like ron locks you in a prison and gives you a hacksaw along with the complete instructions for it's use...

it's far easier to enslave someone than it is to free them. for all the high-flying rhetoric there is in praise of freedom not many people like the idea much less the reality of freedom. security. that's what people like

but for those of us who will "live free or die!" as we say back in the 'shire those lrh/csi materials have some high octane glow fuel and for us crisschins who are intent upon loving our neighbor as we love ourselves the imprimatur has a fine toolbox for treating many forms of distress

i am a christian FBM

the nazarene instructs us to speak the simple truth...

Switching the topic, thought stopping cliches, banal metaphors, avoidance rhetoric, the same rote cult tagline, elcon sophistry still doesn't change the fact that $cientology is a cult, the People's Temple was a cult and Jim Jones and elcon were sociopathic cults leaders.
 
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

Switching the topic, thought stopping cliches, banal metaphors, avoidance rhetoric, the same rote cult tagline, elcon sophistry still doesn't change the fact that $cientology is a cult, the People's Temple was a cult and Jim Jones and elcon were sociopathic cults leaders.

you are welcome to your opinions and their expression

you hit the rwq button on my post and rather absurdly posted TR-L

my entirely sequitur response was to state that i am a christian and cite the instructions from the instruction manual

perhaps you consider christianity to be a cliche, banal, avoidance and a rote cult tagline but i do not

nor do the majority of intelligent readers in the english-speaking world

l ron hubbard and his colleagues produced a body of work. the man himself, was quite an interesting fellow. i do think him somewhat flawed in some ways, but then who is not. i've no doubt there are many clinical psychiatrists who would concur with your assessment of him as a sociopath. i do not and have as much right to my own opinion and it's expression as you have to yours. i am an honest student of his work which i have found to be eminently practicable...

and speaking of "switching the topic", how does jim jones and the people's temple pertain to a discussion of ron and scn?
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

i defend auditing and auditor training FBM

and i like this post a lot; this is good work

yeah, this kind of shit gets pulled all the time in CoS, but, ironically the materials themselves contain all the antidotes to these poisons. to repeat a simile i've posted before it seems like ron locks you in a prison and gives you a hacksaw along with the complete instructions for it's use...

it's far easier to enslave someone than it is to free them. for all the high-flying rhetoric there is in praise of freedom not many people like the idea much less the reality of freedom. security. that's what people like

but for those of us who will "live free or die!" as we say back in the 'shire those lrh/csi materials have some high octane glow fuel and for us crisschins who are intent upon loving our neighbor as we love ourselves the imprimatur has a fine toolbox for treating many forms of distress

you are welcome to your opinions and their expression

you hit the rwq button on my post and rather absurdly posted TR-L

my entirely sequitur response was to state that i am a christian and cite the instructions from the instruction manual

perhaps you consider christianity to be a cliche, banal, avoidance and a rote cult tagline but i do not

nor do the majority of intelligent readers in the english-speaking world

l ron hubbard and his colleagues produced a body of work. the man himself, was quite an interesting fellow. i do think him somewhat flawed in some ways, but then who is not. i've no doubt there are many clinical psychiatrists who would concur with your assessment of him as a sociopath. i do not and have as much right to my own opinion and it's expression as you have to yours. i am an honest student of his work which i have found to be eminently practicable...

and speaking of "switching the topic", how does jim jones and the people's temple pertain to a discussion of ron and scn?

I wasn't referring to xtianity in that manner and you know it, it's your circular avoidance tactics I was pointing out.

Regarding JJ, elcon and their cults didn't you get the telex, mimeo, or read the the OP?: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientology (It's at post #1)

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised (Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.)
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
"Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

‪ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group."


With the current sole difference being Jim Jones and most of his followers committing suicide en masse the Peoples Temple and elcon/$cientology are virtually identical.
 
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Re: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientol

I wasn't referring to xtianity in that manner and you know it, it's your circular avoidance tactics I was pointing out.

Regarding JJ, elcon and their cults didn't you get the telex, mimeo, or read the the OP?: Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton.similarities between People's Temple & Scientology (It's at post #1)

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised (Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.)
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
"Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

‪ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group."


With the current sole difference being Jim Jones and most of his followers committing suicide en masse the Peoples Temple and elcon/$cientology are virtually identical.

score one for FBM!

yeah bouncing back and forth between threads i didn't notice i was putting the last post up on the jonestown thread. but similarities between jones and ron just are awfully scarce

of course Co$$$ $uxxx massively these days and i'm one of it's serious critics

what pray tell do you accuse me of avoiding?
 
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