Jonestown

[Voltaire's Child]

I agree, Winston.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I'd seen a lot of these clips already and just can't bring myself to watch it again. What one man's ego will cause him to do to re-enforce his own sense of empowerment. Chills. It seems all last month and this month of October there have been specials about murders.. It is programming insensitivity once it gets to a certain level in the media. Jeepers, I'm afraid to go to sleep any more. But regarding the Jonestown episode, it reinforcred my decision to never let anyone isolate you away from your family contacts. It is social connections that can create the leverage to cause most to act with good character when they might otherwise show their dark side. I live in Central Florida where there have been 3 highly publicized serial killing sprees within a couple of miles of me. Whether its Danny Rollings, or Ted Bundy, or Eileen Wournos, these terrbily damaged people were all trying to take their power BACK after something made them feel powerless. The Feds coming in was what tweaked that button for Jim Jones. He's rather die than let them win.

 

[JimJam]

I have not seen the CNN report, but have seen the MSNBC one several times, in addition to seeing anything I could about Jonestown previously.

One thing I remember is that Jones had many "dry runs" of mass suicide long before this occured. The sirens would blare, people all came to the common area, and drank what they were told to. The survivors all mentioned this. Some said it scared the hell out of them, but they did it anyway. They were totally isolated...surrounded by guns.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It's tragic. And so ironic that they actually had a sign posted there that said that those who didn't learn the lessons of history would be doomed to repeat them. They surely didn't learn and they did repeat those lessons and failures.

Congressman Ryan came down because people had told families they wanted to leave and couldn't and the families contacted Leo Ryan.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

I think, if I am remembering this correctly, that Ida Cambern had also contacted Congressman Ryan and had requested he launch an investigation into COS abuses and illegalities, and that there had been some correspondence between them and that his office was beginning to do so.

So we can think of the good he intended to do for these people and Scientologists, and what he might have done, if he had not been murdered by cult guards at the airstrip while leaving the country. Just a matter of minutes, and the history of the COS might have been very different.

Please correct me if I am not remembering this correctly.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

She'd have had to do so before November 1978.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Yes, back then...

Ida has been a critic of the COS for a very long time.

 

[skollie]

I think, if I am remembering this correctly, that Ida Cambern had also contacted Congressman Ryan and had requested he investigation into COS abuses and illegalities, and that there had been some correspondence between them and that his office was beginning to do so.

So we can think of the good he intended to do for these people and Scientologists, and what he might have done, if he had not been murdered by cult guards at the airstrip while leaving the country. Just a matter of minutes, and the history of the COS might have been very different.

Please correct me if I am not remembering this correctly.

Yes, your memory serves you well. Ida was in contact with Congressman Ryan.

Congress of the United states
House of Representatives
December 10, 1976

Dear Ida Camburn,

Thank you for your very detailed letter regarding
$cientology. We haven't yet found a way to attack
these jackals who feed on children and young adults
who are too emotionally weak to stand by themselves
when they reach the age of consent.

It's too bad there isn't a 20th Century Charles
Dickens to write about the terrible destruction of
these 20th Century fagins who make themselves rich
while they destroy the psyche of so many.

At the present time, I can only encourage you
to do more of what you have been doing.

Sincerely yours
Leo J Ryan
Member of Congress

http://www.lermanet.com/idacamburn/

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Very cool. I mean, that she's been active in it so long.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Thanks, Skollie!

Thank you Skollie, for posting that! I wish we could connect with an elected leader who would be as responsive to our concerns for other's safety and well-being as Congressman Ryan was.

Maybe if we all wrote to our current Congress representative? I am an optimist!

Does anyone know if Ida's son is still in, and at INT or now elsewhere? Last I heard he was still disconnected from her.

 

[simplyme]

deleted due to it being off topic

 

[skollie]

Thank you Skollie, for posting that! I wish we could connect with an elected leader who would be as responsive to our concerns for other's safety and well-being as Congressman Ryan was.

Maybe if we all wrote to our current Congress representative? I am an optimist!

Does anyone know if Ida's son is still in, and at INT or now elsewhere? Last I heard he was still disconnected from her.

Yes writing to our current congress reps should certainly be done.

I don't think that Ida has reconnected with her son. Her story is so very sad and I find the page that religiousfreedomwatch has on her, quite despicable. She's 86 years old now and probably will never get to connect with him.

Dear Son by Ida Camburn

http://www.lermanet.com/idacamburn/dearson.htm

21 Jun 2001

Dear Son

As I check the calendar I see the date of June 20 registered there. This is a date with many memories--this the fortieth anniversary of your fathers death and the twenty fourth anniversary of your signing of the "disconnect" letter. In that you saw fit to publish your last letter to me (or about me) for the world to see, I felt this one should meet the same fate--thus I make it public.

This is a difficult letter to write as I realize we no longer "know' each other. I saw you for a moment about fifteen years ago, however only a hello and you were gone. I asked to come see you when you were so very ill a few years ago, however I was told that you did not care to see me. I waited in terror until I knew you were going to survive.

I have never been one to sit around letting life just pass me by. When you decided to check me out of your life via the disconnect, I realized that the relationshiop we had in the past was over. This did not stop me from loving you and thinking of you each moment that has passed. I fill my mind with remembering the good times while constatnly learning about the present times.

My head is filled with memories of your growing to be a man, coming home with great report cards, you reading into the wee hours, holidays with all of us together, the phone calls, your love of Edison and your laugh when I called to remind you of his birthday , your trying to teach me to put "english" on my pool shot, making the birthday cakes , your pride in starting your first business, there are so many memories but then my hope is that you are able to remember them too.

What "could" have been is over and now in these last years of my life I keep as active as possible and I know in my heart that these past events have occurred for a reason. Could it be because I would not let my pride stand in the way of exposing this pain to the public? Could it be because my father taught me "when you know in your heart that something is dead wrong and you do not make any effort to make it right --that is sin.".His words echo in my head each time I am so weary when I get a call for help that I think how easy it would be to just pass the problem on and I am ashamed to think I would not be there for whoever needed a lift and a kind word. So please son, do not think a nasty letter with less than the truth published, is going to make me cringe from the "fair game" or will the strange phone calls frighten me. My home and heart will be a haven for anyone who has felt the sting and infringment of a destructive cult resulting in the loss of a loved one or denying one a right to free speech.

The effort to discredit me with the people in this community has failed.

Perhaps I should be thankful as it proved again how far the organization that you have devoted over twenty five years of your life would go to silence just one person. I had a wonderful civics teacher in the eighth grade son, she was a great believer in the exercise of free speech. I remember every word she taught us. It is a pleasure to associate my life with those that believe that free speech is meant for everyone--not just those with what may be temporary and supposed power!

Sincerely,
Mother

Ida J. Camburn
Hemet, California

 

[The Clam]

Interesting fact:the US Gov. flew down body bags before the kool Aid incident.
Jones town was a cia operation.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Dox, pls.

 

[skollie]

Interesting fact:the US Gov. flew down body bags before the kool Aid incident.
Jones town was a cia operation.

There are so many conspiracy theories surrounding Jonestown. The one you refer to, was published in Freedom Magazine.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

There are so many conspiracy theories surrounding Jonestown. The one you refer to, was published in Freedom Magazine.

'Nuff said there.

 

[Zinjifar]

'Freedumb isn't Free'.

Zinj

 

[The Clam]

There are so many conspiracy theories surrounding Jonestown. The one you refer to, was published in Freedom Magazine.

What is a conspiracy theory? I have never heard a major media piece being referred to a conspiracy theory only news reported by individuals and non main stream media that challenge the facts of an anointed event by the high priest of news givers.. If the main stream media reports an event like 911 its not a conspiracy event but if some challenges the implosion of building 7 then it becomes a conspiracy theory. Jonetown was a hit on Ryan by the CIA because he was not one of their fans. Like the JFK assassination it was called a conspiracy theory when anyone challenged the Warren Comm one bullet theory of Arlen Spector. Even on Hunts death bed confession on tape were he confesses to carrying out the assignation of JFK or Oswall was a trained cia opertive. The words Conspiracy Theory is just a media mind control tech that has been used to inculcated the ignorant into dismissing any data that rejects mainstream media point of view.
Army Medic Jonestown http://scribblguy.50megs.com/jonestown2.htm

 

[Mick Wenlock]

What is a conspiracy theory? I have never heard a major media piece being referred to a conspiracy theory only news reported by individuals and non main stream media that challenge the facts of an anointed event by the high priest of news givers.. If the main stream media reports an event like 911 its not a conspiracy event but if some challenges the implosion of building 7 then it becomes a conspiracy theory. Jonetown was a hit on Ryan by the CIA because he was not one of their fans. Like the JFK assassination it was called a conspiracy theory when anyone challenged the Warren Comm one bullet theory of Arlen Spector. Even on Hunts death bed confession on tape were he confesses to carrying out the assignation of JFK or Oswall was a trained cia opertive. The words Conspiracy Theory is just a media mind control tech that has been used to inculcated the ignorant into dismissing any data that rejects mainstream media point of view.
Army Medic Jonestown http://scribblguy.50megs.com/jonestown2.htm

what complete rubbish. Did you read anything at all form the people who were there?

 

[The Clam]

Please tell me of what you refer to. The data of t he body bags was culled by government docs. The assassination of Ryan was a CIA hit. So what data do you have to dispel the above.