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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks, that helps.

S/he may be pressured about me not being in the church. I know that was the case in the past and it came within about a quarter of an inch of ending our marriage. I am very very careful about what I say. (And, right here, there are things I would like to say but think it would be imprudent.) I think it's a feeling of failure. Not participating in enough courses/services. Not advancing. And feeling that if s/he could only do more then the rest of life would be better. I wonder, though, if I'm being blamed for the lack of engagement. Our finances are completely separate and have been for our entire marriage so it's not that I hold any purse strings or control over where s/he spends money.

Thank for the addtional information. :thumbsup:

It's possible that you are being blamed. Scn and Scns play the "Blame Game", Big Time. However, as they are losing Folks right and left and pretty much can't get new Bantu Fodder they are, IMO, cutting more slack than in the past. The feeling of failure is, secretly widespread amongst the majority of Scns. They are indoctrinated and have bought into the "Reality" that any failure to not get what they want from the "Tech" is due to their own "Case", "Out Ethics" and others "Suppressing Them" and just haven't done enough Auditing or Training or "Contribution" to get their case "Cracked" or "Handled" or "Flying". :melodramatic:

You've done remarkably well dealing with this to date. There' a whole lotta stuff coming down the pike in the next few months that, IMO, is gonna rattle Scn and the psychologically caged membership. If you can just cintinue to be like the Fonz for a little while longer this may all feather itself out. :coolwink:

Face:)
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
WoW, I can really feel where you are coming from Intentionally Blank.

From my initial thoughts, which I had, and were posted by afaceinthecrowd, your spouse is definitely under some stress and it is hard on you too as you are not sure what to do. My ideas, depending on how well you talk with your spouse, is to just come out and mention his/her lack of concentration and lack of remembering when they happen and say you noticed it and you are concerned as a loving spouse and would like to help him/her get through this difficult time by discussing what is on her or his mind.

Of course there could be a nutritional component, a sleep component or a work or medical condition. Have you talked about those?

With those in mind, I do lean towards what aface said and since I am not by any means an expert I would recommend you getting the ebook mentioned here.

http://freedomofmind.com/Media/bookFreedom.php


It might give you an enhanced understanding and lead to a resolution and your spouse being whole again. I recommend you read it before following any ideas I had posted above.

very sincerely I wish you the best.

On all subjects non scn we are very open and, I would say, fairly courageous/vulnerable. We have talked at length about the concentration, focus, memory issues. Of course, the answer is always if only I could get more auditing, courses, more TR 0s, all would be well. To which I can't say what I really think without planning to pack my bags at the same time. I feel like my hands are tied. There are really good options out there for all those issues. If I even mention they exist I am the enemy.

The nutritional piece is pretty good. Not as good as I'd like, but better than most I'd say. Sleep is an issue. I don't know if it's a chicken or an egg thing, though. I think s/he wakes up at night knowing life is kind of a mess, thinking more scn would make it better, and feels paralyzed because doing more is not an option at this time. His/her job is physically demanding at times and stressful right now.

I love Steve Hassan's work. It's funny it shows up here. Not surprising, I just didn't think to expect it. It was a fairly large part of a class I took - mmmm - something like 15 years ago. Thanks for reminding me.

Blanky
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Should I be nervous that there are guests browsing this thread? I feel so cloak and dagger wondering who is watching me, keeping notes, and trying to figure out who I am. It's like a nightmarish game of Clue and the villain is me. Intentionally Blank, on the forum, with the ...... Marriage over.

Yes, it's true, I sometimes have a dark sense of humor.
 

Gib

Crusader
Thank for the addtional information. :thumbsup:

It's possible that you are being blamed. Scn and Scns play the "Blame Game", Big Time. However, as they are losing Folks right and left and pretty much can't get new Bantu Fodder they are, IMO, cutting more slack than in the past. The feeling of failure is, secretly widespread amongst the majority of Scns. They are indoctrinated and have bought into the "Reality" that any failure to not get what they want from the "Tech" is due to their own "Case", "Out Ethics" and others "Suppressing Them" and just haven't done enough Auditing or Training or "Contribution" to get their case "Cracked" or "Handled" or "Flying". :melodramatic:

You've done remarkably well dealing with this to date. There' a whole lotta stuff coming down the pike in the next few months that, IMO, is gonna rattle Scn and the psychologically caged membership. If you can just cintinue to be like the Fonz for a little while longer this may all feather itself out. :coolwink:

Face:)

My partner was being regged by the Flag IAS rep for making a donation to the IAS, my partner being on 6 month sec check at the time at Flag. Me partner says let me call my partner, IAS rep says don't do that, he/she will say "no". This pissed off me partner. Of course I said No, I said what about me going up the bridge, me partner says I know, I just had to call you know. This was of course was when I was under the spell. Anyways, I was thankful my partner called me, we do have combined finances, we are trying to survive as a unit, like regular people. :yes:
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Thank for the addtional information. :thumbsup:

It's possible that you are being blamed. Scn and Scns play the "Blame Game", Big Time. However, as they are losing Folks right and left and pretty much can't get new Bantu Fodder they are, IMO, cutting more slack than in the past. The feeling of failure is, secretly widespread amongst the majority of Scns. They are indoctrinated and have bought into the "Reality" that any failure to not get what they want from the "Tech" is due to their own "Case", "Out Ethics" and others "Suppressing Them" and just haven't done enough Auditing or Training or "Contribution" to get their case "Cracked" or "Handled" or "Flying". :melodramatic:

You've done remarkably well dealing with this to date. There' a whole lotta stuff coming down the pike in the next few months that, IMO, is gonna rattle Scn and the psychologically caged membership. If you can just cintinue to be like the Fonz for a little while longer this may all feather itself out. :coolwink:

Face:)

<Digging into the back of my closet for the leather jacket> “Let me tell ya, it’s a lot of fun in La-La Land.” :coolwink:
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
My partner was being regged by the Flag IAS rep for making a donation to the IAS, my partner being on 6 month sec check at the time at Flag. Me partner says let me call my partner, IAS rep says don't do that, he/she will say "no". This pissed off me partner. Of course I said No, I said what about me going up the bridge, me partner says I know, I just had to call you know. This was of course was when I was under the spell. Anyways, I was thankful my partner called me, we do have combined finances, we are trying to survive as a unit, like regular people. :yes:

So, Gib, are you out now? Is your partner also? What helped you to wake up?
 

Gib

Crusader
My partner was being regged by the Flag IAS rep for making a donation to the IAS, my partner being on 6 month sec check at the time at Flag. Me partner says let me call my partner, IAS rep says don't do that, he/she will say "no". This pissed off me partner. Of course I said No, I said what about me going up the bridge, me partner says I know, I just had to call you know. This was of course was when I was under the spell. Anyways, I was thankful my partner called me, we do have combined finances, we are trying to survive as a unit, like regular people. :yes:

I might add me partner do not know I post here. Double agent I am. Kind of fun with all the new stuff happening regards books and TV/internet stuff. :thumbsup:
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
(My bold)

Should I be nervous that there are guests browsing this thread? I feel so cloak and dagger wondering who is watching me, keeping notes, and trying to figure out who I am. It's like a nightmarish game of Clue and the villain is me. Intentionally Blank, on the forum, with the ...... Marriage over.

Yes, it's true, I sometimes have a dark sense of humor.

No, I don't think you should be nervous. One of these guests was me - I only log in when I want to say something, so about 80% of the time I spend here, I'm just another "guest". :coolwink:

Oh, and :welcome2: IB!
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
So, if the only options right now are scn options, are there any benefits from things like assists? Touch assists seem, to me, to be a basic method of bi-lateral stimulation not unlike emdr. Are they helpful or do they feed the addiction? What about locational assists? I know less about those and I tend to find them annoying - but is there any thought that they might be beneficial? I have such mixed feelings about offering to do these things. If it brings relief it seems a good thing. But if it brings relief followed by a need for a bigger fix.... well .... that doesn't go anywhere good.

Blanky
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
I really want to tell you about this dear person I am married to and my confusion about how scn is probably causing harm. I don't even know where to begin and I don't want to, can't, give details that would identify who we are. garrrrrrrr......

I think s/he's depressed. Possibly severely. I wonder if it's created by scn. S/he has memory issues that are debilitating. They may be family trauma related........ but I think the "church" may have made them worse.

I have a significant other who is in the cult. I agree that Scn creates a lot of problems. The thing is, there is so much pressure on these people, and I think that (aside from the mindfuck) the continued stress has to lead to elevated cortisol levels and other stress hormones that eventually take a toll on the human body.

S/he's been off, if you will, since the NYE event. I didn't attend - but it's a phenomena I've noticed before. It could be my imagination but there seems to be .... distance and fogginess .... after events at the org.

Um yeah. I dunno if he gets told to handle me or what. Or maybe the mindfuck of being there just makes him want to withdraw? Or maybe all of the above?

The thing is, not even the best Scno with their TR's in can keep up the charade. Human behavior can be manipulated. You can turn the game back on them. Scn gets a fair amount if its power from principles of reciprocity. I smile at you and say hi, you tend to react with something friendly. I was being positive and proactive ion my kindness, and you were reacting. Reciprocity also works the other way. If I pass you on the street and say, "Watch where you're fucking going," you are likely to react in kind.

But what would happen if I said, "Watch where you're fucking going!" and you smiled at me and said, "Oh, you must be having a bad day, I am so sorry!" Most people couldn't continue to be mean to you at that point. Or if they tried, it would take a tremendous amount of psychological effort to do so.

I've used these techniques on my in friend (in addition to the techniques that Hassan suggests). I can't tell you how many times the guy has tried to disconnect from me. The disconnections are, at best, temporary and insincere.

In another instance, someone (a friend of a friend) who'd been in for decades was refusing to grant me beingness. I kept talking to him, kindly, until he started reacting (covertly) to what I was saying by looking up what I was talking to this other person about on his iPad. Then he started showing this other person the pictures of this thing I was talking about. It was really funny.

Very simply, behave towards your spouse and towards all of them, for that matter, the way you want them to behave toward you. The results will be nothing short of miraculous, because no human being can keep up negative reactive behavior in the face of positive proactive behavior. Some can in the short term, but it never lasts.

Finally, keep track of your finances. Carefully. I would probably buy up a bunch of gold and stash it in a safe deposit box. Then I would rent a second safe deposit box to stash the key from the first safe deposit box, and sew the key to the second safe deposit box into my mattress. But I'm extremely paranoid, having been cleaned out by a dishonest ex's dishonest business partner. Nothing to do with Scn, but I've been burned so badly that I would consider what you're doing just the baseline level of paranoia for future marriage. If I marry someone in (not likely, since rumor has it I'm Declared), the paranoia would be through the roof.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
I might add me partner do not know I post here. Double agent I am. Kind of fun with all the new stuff happening regards books and TV/internet stuff. :thumbsup:

Ah ha. So you are out and your partner is still in? Good for you. I hope s/he joins you very soon!
The daily news of imploding cos is interesting. I have a good friend, the only one in RL who I talk to about this, who sends me secret updates from around the world.
 

Gib

Crusader
So, Gib, are you out now? Is your partner also? What helped you to wake up?


Bold = debbie cook email, which I didn't receive personally, me partner forwarded to me asking what I think. :roflmao: I said I agreed, then I started looking on the internet. :yes: Not known to me partner, and still not known.

Then I woke up connecting lots of dots based on my experience and not what people wrote here or on other sites. I connected experiences in scientology vs learning about it and living it too with stories hear and elsewhere, and with my experiences with regular old folks not involved.
 

Gib

Crusader
Ah ha. So you are out and your partner is still in? Good for you. I hope s/he joins you very soon!
The daily news of imploding cos is interesting. I have a good friend, the only one in RL who I talk to about this, who sends me secret updates from around the world.

thats the plan. However there are others. Thus I post here. It's nice talking here.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
So, if the only options right now are scn options, are there any benefits from things like assists? Touch assists seem, to me, to be a basic method of bi-lateral stimulation not unlike emdr. Are they helpful or do they feed the addiction? What about locational assists? I know less about those and I tend to find them annoying - but is there any thought that they might be beneficial? I have such mixed feelings about offering to do these things. If it brings relief it seems a good thing. But if it brings relief followed by a need for a bigger fix.... well .... that doesn't go anywhere good.

Blanky

Um, no.... I don't think anything in Scn is beneficial. You could do the 1.1 thing and play devil's advocate. Asking why there isn't any tech to fix the problem. Or why your spouse doesn't want to do try to fix the fuck up of Scn with more Scn. It's a variant of the Jason Beghe "show me a motherfucking Clear!" and I've used it to great effect. The thing is, you need to always leave yourself a way out. So don't ask "show me a mofo Clear." Ask sincere questions about why the cult can't help with the current batch of problems, and it raises the level of cognitive dissonance through the roof.

Oh, and always be really sorry if you offended them. It's just that you want to understand because you care so much for them. Empathy is low on the tone scale so they don't give it to each other. But it's something everyone wants / needs - convince your spouse that s/he misses it.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
You could do the 1.1 thing and play devil's advocate. Asking why there isn't any tech to fix the problem. ......

The thing is, you need to always leave yourself a way out. So don't ask "show me a mofo Clear." Ask sincere questions about why the cult can't help with the current batch of problems, and it raises the level of cognitive dissonance through the roof.

Oh, and always be really sorry if you offended them. It's just that you want to understand because you care so much for them. Empathy is low on the tone scale so they don't give it to each other. But it's something everyone wants / needs - convince your spouse that s/he misses it.

Mmmm.... I did that once, a long time ago. It was Not Good. I suspect, in retrospect, the very unpleasant and defensive reaction was due to a rising level of cognitive dissonance. It also came with "I want a divorce because you are an enemy of scn." I can't say I'm up for a replay of that episode.

There are other issues with receiving services that I can't discuss. S/he is convinced that if only those could be resolved all would be well. So we are at an impasse. Empathy I can do. Low on the tone scale? That's funny - on the rare occasions we argue I always insist on empathy rather than an apology. Who knew.

Blanky
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Bold = debbie cook email, which I didn't receive personally, me partner forwarded to me asking what I think. :roflmao: I said I agreed, then I started looking on the internet. :yes: Not known to me partner, and still not known.

Then I woke up connecting lots of dots based on my experience and not what people wrote here or on other sites. I connected experiences in scientology vs learning about it and living it too with stories hear and elsewhere, and with my experiences with regular old folks not involved.


Sweet. Good for you. I would imagine my dear one received the same email but I don't know. And likely whatever Wendy Honnor sent out too.
 

Gib

Crusader
Mmmm.... I did that once, a long time ago. It was Not Good. I suspect, in retrospect, the very unpleasant and defensive reaction was due to a rising level of cognitive dissonance. It also came with "I want a divorce because you are an enemy of scn." I can't say I'm up for a replay of that episode.

There are other issues with receiving services that I can't discuss. S/he is convinced that if only those could be resolved all would be well. So we are at an impasse. Empathy I can do. Low on the tone scale? That's funny - on the rare occasions we argue I always insist on empathy rather than an apology. Who knew.

Blanky

I personally have a window of opportunity in my scene in the cult, in the religious revival of it all in present time, in the infomercial events of the church, in the constant PR of false expansion of the PR and mailings to us, in the false PR of great success of the tech. And I have some time on my hands. I also have lack of finances to go up the bridge as a added benefit for my partner. Who would have thought. I'm gonna turn our bad times to good times.

Only two blocks of people I really care about. Otherwise I'd put down the hammer with my partner and say see yah later, I ain't apart of this pretended group anymore, and I'd tell all. Not that it matters here.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Mmmm.... I did that once, a long time ago. It was Not Good. I suspect, in retrospect, the very unpleasant and defensive reaction was due to a rising level of cognitive dissonance. It also came with "I want a divorce because you are an enemy of scn." I can't say I'm up for a replay of that episode.

There are other issues with receiving services that I can't discuss. S/he is convinced that if only those could be resolved all would be well. So we are at an impasse. Empathy I can do. Low on the tone scale? That's funny - on the rare occasions we argue I always insist on empathy rather than an apology. Who knew.

Blanky

Sympathy is 0.9. Grief is 0.5 and Making Amends is 0.375 and Regret is -1.3. Stick with the sympathy / empathy.

So there are health issues, eh? That can be a mixed bag. On the one hand, they will shamelessly take money to put on account or for IAS fees out of them, but on the other hand they will be labeled PTS and be under pressure to find the SP. And that auditing high will be dangled just out of their reach.

I won't say anything more about my situation, but the health issues led to more openness. What you need to do now is find the chink in the armor. Every person has their point of weakness, just like every coat of armor. When the Co$ decides to not give services the chinks are more readily exploited by wogs (yes, I'm aware of the play on words, I couldn't resist). Obviously, there was a "disturbance in the force" of sorts that upset the status quo to the point that you came here. Your spouse is experiencing the upset on their own terms, so you might have an opportunity.

Perhaps you can find out when Rock Center is on next week and make it a point to channel surf at that time. And ask what the hell is this crazy shit that this Paul Haggis fellow is talking about. If you're lucky, they might mention Debbie Cook's garbage can confessional or something like that. You can become indignant and say you can't believe that they'd talk about DM like that - I mean sure you think he's tacky, but he can't possibly have done such evil things. Surely your spouse wouldn't be involved in an organization if it were run by such a crazy person.

Another possible idea anyway. You'll have lots of opportunities to become indignant and ask their opinion about all the crazy mean spirited entheta in the next month or two. You get the drift....
 
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