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Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
I have a significant other who is in the cult. I agree that Scn creates a lot of problems. The thing is, there is so much pressure on these people, and I think that (aside from the mindfuck) the continued stress has to lead to elevated cortisol levels and other stress hormones that eventually take a toll on the human body.

Yanno, it's funny. I know these things. But when I go to the org I can't see them. Everyone seems so chipper. I wonder, all the time, what they are really thinking.



Um yeah. I dunno if he gets told to handle me or what. Or maybe the mindfuck of being there just makes him want to withdraw? Or maybe all of the above?

The thing is, not even the best Scno with their TR's in can keep up the charade. Human behavior can be manipulated. You can turn the game back on them. Scn gets a fair amount if its power from principles of reciprocity. I smile at you and say hi, you tend to react with something friendly. I was being positive and proactive ion my kindness, and you were reacting. Reciprocity also works the other way. If I pass you on the street and say, "Watch where you're fucking going," you are likely to react in kind.

But what would happen if I said, "Watch where you're fucking going!" and you smiled at me and said, "Oh, you must be having a bad day, I am so sorry!" Most people couldn't continue to be mean to you at that point. Or if they tried, it would take a tremendous amount of psychological effort to do so.

True. A technique I use all the time - especially at work. :coolwink:

I've used these techniques on my in friend (in addition to the techniques that Hassan suggests). I can't tell you how many times the guy has tried to disconnect from me. The disconnections are, at best, temporary and insincere.

That makes sense. We have a family member who is often in a temporary state of shunnedness. Of late it's been more off than on, though.


Finally, keep track of your finances. Carefully. I would probably buy up a bunch of gold and stash it in a safe deposit box. Then I would rent a second safe deposit box to stash the key from the first safe deposit box, and sew the key to the second safe deposit box into my mattress. But I'm extremely paranoid, having been cleaned out by a dishonest ex's dishonest business partner. Nothing to do with Scn, but I've been burned so badly that I would consider what you're doing just the baseline level of paranoia for future marriage. If I marry someone in (not likely, since rumor has it I'm Declared), the paranoia would be through the roof.

Thanks for the warning. I do. I too have been burned by past experiences with unscrupulous people and partners. My assets are not available. I've made very sure of that because of my past. I guess those experiences helped keep me safe(r) in this marriage.

Blanky
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Yanno, it's funny. I know these things. But when I go to the org I can't see them. Everyone seems so chipper. I wonder, all the time, what they are really thinking.

I have an offlines friend who still lives with in family. I only knew her and her family from the org. Now we're really open with each other. I dunno if her family refuses to grant me beingness because I'm Declared or what. Frankly, I have a hard time believing I'm Declared because I wasn't involved for very long. But I showed my significant other the one study from Pub Med about how Scn doesn't work, so I may well be (I let myself out of the situation with my sig other by pointing out flaws in the methodology of the study and blaming "the psychs").

Anyway, one of her brothers is org staff, and he's quite chipper at the org but extremely introverted at home. Has no confront. She tells me that all her family, including this brother, are pissed off at the incessant regging. But I don't see as how any of them are going to get out anytime soon.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Mini Review: My spouse is a long time scn. I am not and have never been part of the church. If s/he knew I was here, or perhaps even knew this place existed, it is likely our marriage would be over. For sure if s/he knew I posted here. We have at least one very close family member who has been shunned because of expressing doubts or even asking what I would consider rational questions about the scn claims. My intro thread is here http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29672-Is-it-safe-to-say-anything

I know a little bit about scn. More about the criminal and unethical acts than about the philosophy/technology. I probably know enough about that to sound intelligent for about 30 seconds. I've read very little of Hubbard's work - primarily because the writing style annoys me. I read all kinds of things that differ from my pov - as long as they are well written. I think I skimmed Self Analysis a long time ago. Yep, annoying.

In any event. Why am I here? I probably don't have a good answer for that. Company for my misery? Help sorting out the insanity? Advice on how to help my spouse who is not doing well? All of the above, perhaps. Someone to talk to whose been there. I only have on RL friend I confide in but without having been in the church it's hard to understand what I experience. I have friends who are currently in the church. I often wonder if they have doubts - but of course I wouldn't dream of asking. Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a double agent. It's not a comfortable place to be. I think it's rational conversation about scn, tech, claims, whaterver that I'm looking for.

I really want to tell you about this dear person I am married to and my confusion about how scn is probably causing harm. I don't even know where to begin and I don't want to, can't, give details that would identify who we are. garrrrrrrr......

I think s/he's depressed. Possibly severely. I wonder if it's created by scn. S/he has memory issues that are debilitating. They may be family trauma related........ but I think the "church" may have made them worse.

S/he's been off, if you will, since the NYE event. I didn't attend - but it's a phenomena I've noticed before. It could be my imagination but there seems to be .... distance and fogginess .... after events at the org.

Thanks for listening. There's more, but that's a start and it helps to get it out of my head.

Blanky


Welcome!

Church members are under a lot of pressure. The church constantly looks for bad people (SPs) in a sort of McCarthyesque witch hunting type situation. But the thing is, the people who really are doing the suppressing and all that are the church management and the middle and lower echelon staff whom they indoctrinate to do those things as well. It's a bit like a worm ouroborus...

Used to be that there was maybe a bit of a range in the way members interfaced with doubting or questioning family and friends. Sometimes there was more latitute. I hasten to add- it was never right, but thing is, it's worse now, I believe. It gets more paranoid and nuts every year.

They stress freedom of communication but they stifle it every chance they get.

There are a lot of people here who've had varying levels of involvement in CofS- in many cases, years' worth. There're a lot of accounts related on this board that you may find interesting and helpful.
 

David C Gibbons

Ex-Scientology Peon
So let me ask - would you go into business or a business agreement with someone who is a scientologist? Assuming they are in the "good people" category, would the money issue leak over into a business arrangement? [SNIP]
Blanky

Not just NO, HELL, NO! Scientologists should not be trusted around anyone's money, in my opinion.
 
So, if the only options right now are scn options, are there any benefits from things like assists? Touch assists seem, to me, to be a basic method of bi-lateral stimulation not unlike emdr. Are they helpful or do they feed the addiction? What about locational assists? I know less about those and I tend to find them annoying - but is there any thought that they might be beneficial? I have such mixed feelings about offering to do these things. If it brings relief it seems a good thing. But if it brings relief followed by a need for a bigger fix.... well .... that doesn't go anywhere good.

Blanky

How about just offering to give a nice full-body massage after a nice comforting warm bath? With some soothing relaxing music on, not leading to anything sexual, just for stress-reduction and relaxation. You can say you read about it in a magazine and wanted to try it! :thumbsup:

Nix to doing assists...don't feed the delusion. Do some other fun real life stuff, like a nice massage with scented body oil or lotion. :happydance:
 
Yanno, it's funny. I know these things. But when I go to the org I can't see them. Everyone seems so chipper. I wonder, all the time, what they are really thinking.

Blanky

(Most of them are just acting happy...so as not to get into "ethics trouble'...take a look at Ron's totally bogus "tone scale", which influences Scientologists greatly. Nobody wants to be seen as being low-toned or having "misemotion" :duh:) There is also a bit of a rule..."no case on post", so staff in the Org show a good harmonious face to the "public" (paying) Scientology clients. Most of what they are emoting, projecting IS NOT REAL. :no:






:thumbsup:
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just a little bit of unsolicited advice:

(1) Project the attitude that you've read some of the basic books, and while you don't care to get involved yourself, you're not against it. If you say you're "for", they'll try and sell you services. If you say you're "against", your spouse will be ordered to disconnect from you. "Neutral" they don't know what to do with.

(2) If your spouse has or may join staff, this is tantamount to abandonment. Long work hours don't leave time for a relationship. If this happens to you, especially if the Sea Org is involved, visit once in a while. You'll be allowed to do so if you do (1).

(3) Guard yourself against having your common money raided to pay for services. It can be totally GONE real fast.

(4) If you get a call from your spouse asking permission to buy a service, s/he will probably be in a reg's office under great pressure to buy NOW NOW NOW. S/he may even be praying for you say no, being unable to say the same thing to the reg him/herself. When the two of are alone together, you can discuss it under reasonable circumstances.

I hope this helps.

Helena
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Just a little bit of unsolicited advice:

(1) Project the attitude that you've read some of the basic books, and while you don't care to get involved yourself, you're not against it. If you say you're "for", they'll try and sell you services. If you say you're "against", your spouse will be ordered to disconnect from you. "Neutral" they don't know what to do with.

I've never heard it put this way, but this is absolute Truth (capital T). "Oh, it sounds nice, but the book was so dull and impenetrable. And I'm just so busy. What a blessing to have so much work, but I have no time for hobbies or self-improvement. Maybe when things slow down a bit." They really don't know what to do with anything like that.

At that point they might suggest a different book that is supposedly less dull than Book 1, but I just put that off into the distant future and made sure that I was overworked well into the future. Took a few years, but eventually disaffection won and the subject got dropped. My friend is still in, but I suspect in name only.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re the seeming chipper.

I've always noticed that, too. Part of the thing is that many people in the org truly want to be there and think they are making a difference.

But, another darker thing is that some of them are going through extremely bad times and are treated very badly by CofS and they are not allowed to talk about it at all. So there are times when it's not real, for sure.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
How about just offering to give a nice full-body massage after a nice comforting warm bath? With some soothing relaxing music on, not leading to anything sexual, just for stress-reduction and relaxation. You can say you read about it in a magazine and wanted to try it! :thumbsup:

Nix to doing assists...don't feed the delusion. Do some other fun real life stuff, like a nice massage with scented body oil or lotion. :happydance:


Mm hmm. Can do.

I've been thinking a lot this week about getting away. I'm not sure it's actually possible. There are what seem to be daily calls and texts from the org, emails from the org, cd's in the car, books on the bedside table... I don't know that I realized how pervasive it was until I started thinking about getting away from it. I'm not sure s/he would actually be gone long enough to miss a scheduled course day either.

Someone asked a while back, I'm sorry I couldn't find who it was, if there was a triggering event that brought me here. I've been thinking about that too. I don't know if there was any one thing. Critical mass, maybe? Feeling like I have to compete with the church for my spouse's attention... or.... loyalty. Health issues. Mental issues that seem to be worsening without the option of real help. Feeling alone and sad. This is not relationship I want to end. Quite the contrary. I'm not sure where the growth and engagement potential is, though.

Blanky
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Just a little bit of unsolicited advice:

(1) Project the attitude that you've read some of the basic books, and while you don't care to get involved yourself, you're not against it. If you say you're "for", they'll try and sell you services. If you say you're "against", your spouse will be ordered to disconnect from you. "Neutral" they don't know what to do with.


Yup, got that.

(2) If your spouse has or may join staff, this is tantamount to abandonment. Long work hours don't leave time for a relationship. If this happens to you, especially if the Sea Org is involved, visit once in a while. You'll be allowed to do so if you do (1).

S/he was pressured pretty heavily. Fortunately it's not a financial option. I think there are other impediments as well but finances was the named sticking point. For once I was very grateful for money issues
:eyeroll:


(3) Guard yourself against having your common money raided to pay for services. It can be totally GONE real fast.

(4) If you get a call from your spouse asking permission to buy a service, s/he will probably be in a reg's office under great pressure to buy NOW NOW NOW. S/he may even be praying for you say no, being unable to say the same thing to the reg him/herself. When the two of are alone together, you can discuss it under reasonable circumstances.

I hope this helps.

Helena

We have no common funds. I've been burned badly in the past by someone who didn't have the same values and skills with managing money. I swore then that would never happen again.

It does help, thank you :)
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
It's a little bit of a sad week in the Blank household. I lurked for years - here and at Marty's blog, read a few things on reddit, the usual internet search spots. But I've been here for, now, for 5 or 6 weeks pretty regularly - reading far more in depth than I ever have before. So many things I didn't really understand about our life make more sense now. Or, it makes sense that they don't make sense, might be more accurate.

I'm incredibly sad today. I'm starting to see how my husband's* life has been derailed by the fucktard insanity of this cult. I've known there were issues that could benefit from bona fide professional help -- I didn't realize those issues were caused by the cult. More and more I see how he behaves just like an addict. There is no relief: CDs in the car, books everywhere, constant calls and texts, special events, courses, seminars. And the overriding angst -- "if only I could get more auditing/training/assists/whatever I could get this handled and all would be better. I think she believes he came here to find scn and giving up everything else in life is worth it. WTF? How is that even consistent with the marketing drivel of the cult?

I can't tell if he's getting worse or if I'm getting more aware. Maybe a little of both. I feel myself pulling away - not wanting to be connected and engaged. I'm angry about what the cult has done to so many people. The post about the woman's child sucked into the SO made me see red. I'm angry at every person in the cult who refuses to look, to see. I'm angry at, what feels to me to be, intentional ignorance. And yet, at the same time I know how powerful the threat of losing one's immortal soul can be. I get that I'm angry because I feel so powerless against the beast. I'm still angry. And sad. I am so so sad.

I want him to be well. Safe, happy, well. And every road to getting there is blocked by this monster called the fucking Church of Scientology. There are significant factors in her journey through scn that I think make him even more of a victim than most and that possibly keep him even more addicted and craving. And I'm not sure I can continue to become aware and still live the lie.

Blanky


* I've decided to switch off by weeks. This week he's a husband. Next week she's a wife. It's easier to write. Maybe it'll confuse the men in black.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Blanky, that's exactly how we who have disconnected friends and family feel. I'm pretty much "what will be will be..." now, but I have had days of anger, tears and plain old sadness. It's been about 6 years now for me. The difference with you is that you still have connection, even if the gap in your awareness is growing. You still have a chance that when the walls come crumbling down, whenever they do, the healing can begin. I guess it's how much you can take ... remember the love that brought you together in the first place....
 

Jump

Operating teatime
.

It will come in waves. Hold onto the good stuff. Like FtS said, remember the love. Please, if it helps, vent here - we know the pain.


To the lurker: THIS IS WHY!
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Fair warning: Personal Pity Party Post

I'm thrilled for the families of those who are leaving in droves. Someone, I think on Tory's thread last night, said most still-ins are lurking and reading. I hope with all my heart that's true and that they seek freedom. I wish them godspeed and every good thing.

For me though, I see no hope of that ever happening in the Mr and Mrs Blanky mansion. While we, here and elsewhere, are all reading the news from around the world, Texas in particular, Mr/s Blanky is setting up meetings to become even more deeply involved in the cult. S/he is a desperate True Believer, certain that only the teachings and technology of scn can create personal advances on the road to eternity. Mr/s Blanky is *not* reading blogs or forums or newstands or anything else that might endanger case gains. I would bet my last bit of pocket change s/he doesn't even know there are lawsuits.

I remind myself over and over again that s/he is a victim and to keep my anger and disgust directed at the cult but it's hard. Today is hard. I know there's going to be pressure for money s/he doesn't have and that will only increase the despair and sense of powerlessness. I wish I could give details but the case has enough twists and turns to be easily identifiable.

I'll get through it, I have for years. It helps to just get it out of my head and to know someone who understand has heard.

Blanky
 
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