Karen de la Carriere Jentsch - a pillar of sanity amidst the insanity

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Scientology, at ANY TIME, is INSANE. A decent person might try to input some decency, kindness and sanity into THAT equation, at any time, but that doesn't change the fact that there isn't ANY VERSION of organized Scientology that is anything but batshit crazy.

I think that might have been Veda's point.

-snip-

Not exactly.

For starters, it's the Scientology Doctrine, a.k.a. the Scientology Philosophy, that is problematic, not just "policy" or the "organization."

And it's "problematic," not because it's "all bad," but because it's a mix of bad and good.

Right now, a lot of still psychologically "zapped" people have found their way into Independent Scientology and the Scientology FreeZone, and the more ambitious amongst them are working hard to "salvage" the "image" of the "Scientology Philosophy."

I'm in the awkward position of saying that Scientology isn't "all bad," and that there is some "good" in it, and, yet, also, saying that it, as a doctrine or "philosophy" - over-all - is deceptive, manipulative, and ultimately toxic.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Not exactly.

For starters, it's the Scientology Doctrine, a.k.a. the Scientology Philosophy, that is problematic, not just "policy" or the "organization."

And it's "problematic," not because it's "all bad," but because it's a mix of bad and good.

Right now, a lot of still psychologically "zapped" people have found their way into Independent Scientology and the Scientology FreeZone, and the more ambitious amongst them are working hard to "salvage" the "image" of the "Scientology Philosophy."

I'm in the awkward position of saying that Scientology isn't "all bad," and that there is some "good" in it, and, yet, also, saying that it, as a doctrine or "philosophy" - over-all - is deceptive, manipulative, and ultimately toxic.

Well, Veda, you are again correct and on the ball.

There is some good in $cn . . . the tragedy is that it was all used as part of the megalomaniacal intent of Hubbard's to bait and switch and deceive folks in his personal mission to stamp his name into history and to gain for himself personal glory, power and wealth (all of which he used insanely).

In the early days good folks used the early stuff to help each other, but as the game moved forward (from around early 1962) Hubbard began to come up with more and more razzle-dazzle to misdirect and manipulate folks.

At that time it became a wholly destructive enterprise . . . even though some remnants of beneficial "tech" remained.

Rog
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Veda, all this is very interesting stuff, but I opened this thread just to thank a nice, kind human being for helping another human being. Your very valuable post probably belongs in some other thread.

Agreed. Some things are pretty simple.
If someone does a good deed, no need to nullify it.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Agreed. Some things are pretty simple.
If someone does a good deed, no need to nullify it.

No one is nullifying it, only noting that Motti - who's been on a Scientology PR damage control binge since he arrived at ESMB - was attempting to exploit it.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
For those who missed out on Scientology, before Miscavige and the "out tech zombies" took over, here, at a glance, is an outline of the Scientology operation during the 1970s. (One or two items are from the early 1980s, otherwise, this is a picture of the secretive Scientology operation in the "good old days.")

Warning! :ohmy:

Those wearing rose colored glasses should not read this. Serious eye strain can result :eyeroll::

This misery guts has the cheek to refer to me as a
"thread derailer".

My oh my!
 

Motti

Patron
No one is nullifying it, only noting that Motti - who's been on a Scientology PR damage control binge since he arrived at ESMB - was attempting to exploit it.

Veda, you behave as if you own this forum.
You're just as toxic as the cult you're attacking. Two of a kind.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Veda, you behave as if you own this forum.
You're just as toxic as the cult you're attacking. Two of a kind.

I have never seen that Veda behaves as if he "owns this forum". That is a blatant example of misrepresentation. Mmmm? Who or what also excels at "misrepresentation" (making things appear to other than they actually are)? Hint: Church of Scientology.

Veda does exactly what myself and many others do - we input what we feel is relevant and important, no matter how much our comments may appear to NOT be "on topic" as far as the OP goes. Veda's "derails" almost always make at least some sense from some angle.

While at times Veda might insert his "info blurbs" in places that some few might view as inappropriate, he is not AT ALL "as toxic as the cult he is attacking". That is a very POOR and invalid comparison. And, a VERY VERY poor identification ("two of a kind"). Such comments act to make the poster look, well, like a moron or idiot, or at least some type of shill for Scientology.

As I see it Veda has come to a very legitimate and balanced view of what Scientology is, where it came from, how it developed, based on his own extensive experience and research, and his primary concern is to help those with less of an overview come to a better understanding of WHO and WHAT Hubbard, the subject of Scientology and the Church of Scientology are.

Do I always agree with Veda? No, though these disagreements are usually about "minor details". When it comes to the big picture of Scientology being a nasty creation of Hubbard's, designed and aimed at controlling/manipulating/deceiving largely innocent people to extract the maximum amount of time, energy and money from them, well, we are on the same page.

Whereas YOU, Motti??????? Keep yapping. Most of us here can see through YOUR facade. :omg: :yes: :nervous: :biggrin:
 
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... And thank you Karen for your dedication to decency and all the finer things of humaneness.

RogerB

And she's a real sweet heart, too! :)



... As a public I was not aware of these black ops at the time. I was aware of good and bad service, of humane treatment and robotic treatment. Some of the service and tech results were fantastic, some not. I learned to differentiate.


Unfortunately that ability to differentiate is one all too rarely found in the public at large generally and especially among ex-scientologists, as an associate of mine remarked to me recently.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
Scientologists are the "top 10,000 of Earth" surrounded by billions of wogs.

-snip-

Unfortunately that ability to differentiate is one all too rarely found in the public at large generally and especially among ex-scientologists, as an associate of mine remarked to me recently.


Mark A. Baker

:ohmy:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
"A misery guts is a person who's always unhappy and tries to make others feel negative."

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/misery+guts.html

Mmmm... Sounds like a "Suppressive Person."

Thats what you say not me. A misery guts rains on someone's parade as you did about Karen "saving a life". You constantly try to make anyone with good experience of scn feel negative.

She probably put herself in harms way to do so and went way beyond expectations.

And why the designation?: I spotted someone using another's goodness to, manipulatively, "forward Scientology."

Here you describe yourself. Raining on a parade.

Also a denigration of goodness. Misery guts.

The parable of the "Good Samaritan" would no doubt be considered
by you as manipulatively forwarding Christianity.


Further someone relaying a good event you name manipulation.

However the one doing manipulation here is you.

Anyone here who comments on any value from studying or applying the philosophy of Scientology you castigate PERSONALLY!! Including
this GROSS thread derailment.

That is manipulation!

Your links are of value, though there constant repitition may lessen that, Your personal attacks on others show you as manipulative, a misery guts and one who we see leads a sad life.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Also a denigration of goodness. Misery guts.

-snip-

There was no denigration of goodness.

There was a recognition of an attempt, by Motti, to cynically exploit that goodness so as to promote the twinkling-truth ornamented mind-trap of Scientology.

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference. Maybe you need to do OT 3 for a third time. You know what they say, "Three times a charm."
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
It is not a thread derailment Terril.

It is great that Karen had the courage to do what she did, it shows her wonderful kindness and care for people.

However, the way the story was presented is the subject of the following discussions as it comes with the party line that 'he was saved by adherence to standard tech' etc.

ps - your advertising is also noted.
 
And she's a real sweet heart, too! :)






Unfortunately that ability to differentiate is one all too rarely found in the public at large generally and especially among ex-scientologists, as an associate of mine remarked to me recently.


Mark A. Baker

It has been said before.....life is tough at the top.
 
... The parable of the "Good Samaritan" would no doubt be considered by you as manipulatively forwarding Christianity. ...

The "Good Samaritan" was neither a christian nor a jew, but was by tradition a samaritan, hence the name. The samaritans are an ethnic group closely related yet distinct from the jews. The parable of the "Good Samaritan" is a parable on the proper nature of human conduct and was intended as a general teaching for the jewish community of the 1st century Roman province of iudaea where it was reputedly given.

As a teaching it has since been adopted by those who claim to be christians and as such "followers of jesus". Nonetheless, these "followers" repudiate the actual teachings of jesus, i.e. judaism, in preference to the heretical doctrines of the actual founder of their cult, paul of tarsus.


Mark A. Baker
 

Gadfly

Crusader
The "Good Samaritan" was neither a christian nor a jew, but was by tradition a samaritan, hence the name. The samaritans are an ethnic group closely related yet distinct from the jews. The parable of the "Good Samaritan" is a parable on the proper nature of human conduct and was intended as a general teaching for the jewish community of the 1st century Roman province of iudaea where it was reputedly given.

As a teaching it has since been adopted by those who claim to be christians and as such "followers of jesus". Nonetheless, these "followers" repudiate the actual teachings of jesus, i.e. judaism, in preference to the heretical doctrines of the actual founder of their cult, paul of tarsus.

Mark A. Baker

But Mark, MOST PEOPLE EQUATE THE TWO (the parable and Christianity), and for all practical purposes, this was the point, and your erudite display of the knowledge of actual "history" is largely irrelevant (except maybe to you):

Originally Posted by Terril park

... The parable of the "Good Samaritan" would no doubt be considered by you as manipulatively forwarding Christianity. ...

Not that I agree with Terril's comment either, even if the parable were entirely "Christian", especially with respect to whom he aimed it at and why.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The "Good Samaritan" was neither a christian nor a jew, but was by tradition a samaritan, hence the name. The samaritans are an ethnic group closely related yet distinct from the jews. The parable of the "Good Samaritan" is a parable on the proper nature of human conduct and was intended as a general teaching for the jewish community of the 1st century Roman province of iudaea where it was reputedly given.

As a teaching it has since been adopted by those who claim to be christians and as such "followers of jesus". Nonetheless, these "followers" repudiate the actual teachings of jesus, i.e. judaism, in preference to the heretical doctrines of the actual founder of their cult, paul of tarsus.


Mark A. Baker

Indeed!

I said:-

"... The parable of the "Good Samaritan" would no doubt be considered by you as manipulatively forwarding Christianity. ..."

Far better stated as :-


"... The parable of the "Good Samaritan" would no doubt be considered by you as manipulatively forwarding the proper nature of human conduct. ..."

This parable would indicate that attacking others for their different
viewpoints is not OK.

Violated by Veda. Time after time.

Further it is a statement that our common humanity transcends such ideas and embraces support of those with other viewpoints.
Granting of beingness if you will.

Whoever it was intended for, its a very wonderful precept. Whoever
utilises it.

It is also considered one of the 91 sayings of the historical Jesus
that he actually said.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

"... The parable of the "Good Samaritan" would no doubt be considered by you as manipulatively forwarding the proper nature of human conduct. ..."

This parable would indicate that attacking others for their different
viewpoints is not OK.

Violated by Veda. Time after time.

-snip-

You are misrepresenting, and I can only assume it's knowingly done.

Perhaps you're aplying this LRH datum:

"Statements one makes can be curved. 'She had a birthday party', becomes 'The delinquents inner circle gathered yesterday for a sex orgy and pretended to the police that it was a birthday party. No one was jailed'."

L. Ron Hubbard, 'PR Series 18'.
 
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