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Karen de la Carriere YouTube Channel Part 2

Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by Karen#1, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Int Base staff Sea Org executives have ALL been subjected to years of traumatic events , fear to be beaten, falsely imprisoned , coerced to slave work, sleeping on floors among ants, eating sloop, deprive of air conditioning, proper hygiene , locked up wit bared windows an doors. These are similar to sociopath\ psychopath movies about Vietcong, Chinese ways of psychologically torturing people in order to dehumanize and break them.

    Usually, the best cruel way to dehumanize these people is to coerce them to abuse their colleagues in order, for them, to be given a break, to avoid a cruel punishment and to survive. This leads to the most traumatic events.
    It is called relational traumas.
    It has been well documented that the brain must wipe many of the most damaging events for the individual to survive and to avoid a psychotic break in an attempt to escape reality.

    People will suffer from amnesia and their brain will store those events in a place that is out of reach and that may or may never be opened up.

    I am personnally shamed and very reluctant to tell my wrongdoings while in the CULT..( These are things we used to say about gays, 1'1 and sp's...) and also my witnessing of sea org rod abuse I felt helpless , even after 30 years it is still difficult . I had forgotten them deep within me till I have been able to process it. For other parts I am aware of it, but don't want to talk about it.

    Thus, I won't call liars people who are on a path to recover their true self while still being under attack and that I don't know the truth of it.. What could be done is to ask them question and provide them a safe space to reply. Otherwise they won't let anyone to attack them. I once did it with one of this prominent critics and got a positive reply.

    Would you answer to people obsessively attacking and smearing you for years, clustered in a hord????

    As an exe who is concerned by the on going abuses in the present time, I am more concerned that people who have witnessed or been part of abuses at the top are empowered in being responsible than being attacked to make them guilty of what we don't know of. Although in the event some people suffered from criminal offenses committed by one exe out, it must be disclosed and addressed by authorities. Bit I am not a prosecutor.​
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  2. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa


    I'm not popular right now.

    Make sure you do what keeps you your friends, Tanchi

    Good luck.

    I remember our interactions on Twitter before I was such a pariah.

    That's okay.

    Lot's of my friends - now - have been pariahs too.

    And my new friends are threatening their own social statuses to become pariahs because they value the truth over their loyalties to people who do not value the truth.

    But hey- I get the corn.

  3. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    Yep. Love me some fried sweet corn, an old family recipe.

    My question was genuine. Now I'm curious about Stacy Brooks. If you dont want to discuss it though, it's ok.
  4. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    @lotus wrote:

    You've invoked Viet Nam now. Is this what Int Base was really like? Isn't it important to keep a perspective?

    Then why do you attack me when I say not everyone in Scientology was like you?

    Yet I did this with myself after being a mission staff member for 7.5 years, and a public Scientologist for another 9 years.

    After this same process you describe, I realized I never did anything like what you people did to each other in the Sea Org.

    Why, after realizing this, and writing about it, am I such an OSA Agent?

    Please explain.
  5. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I was glad though the aftermath have provided many of them to get a little peace in getting their shame, sadness out of their chest.

    I think of a member here who you guys know of and it was painful to feel this load of shame he had silently suffered for outing a dear one decades ago. It seems to me it has provided him a way to be responsible instead of being attacked to be guilty.
  6. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    No matter what the present "anti-Scientology" hierarchy says about me, I am genuine.

    Keep looking into Stacy Brooks.

    Report back what you find.
  7. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I'm sorry.

    I asked really important questions of you here.

    But I do not understand your answers to me.

    I realize that it is a language problem, and you know English way better than i know French, so could you try again?
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  8. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    @Alanzo, I know you must realise that trying to control and organise people even when they have the same overall agenda (in this instance exposing the cofs) but who also have various different personal and private issues is like trying to herd kitty cats?

    Nobody is ever going to be able to do it and certainly not via open message boards.

    The best that anyone can expect is the result we now have, which (after only a decade) is excellent.

    Relax, everything will be OK, I doubt it will ever please everyone ... but it will be OK.

    lotus and AnonyMary like this.
  9. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Sorry Sweetie.

    But I've listened to you negate important things for almost a decade now.

    So please.

    Go away.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  10. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Fair enough.

    I hope you find what you are looking for.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2019
    AnonyMary likes this.
  11. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    Report back. I just snorted iced tea when I read that. Sir Yes Sir!
  12. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Snortng iced tea at one of my commands means you'll backflash at future commands.

    That means you're not qualified for Int Base.


    Keep questioning Karen and Jeffrey's commands.

    - Alanzo
  13. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    I question all commands. Nobody's the boss of me!!
  14. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Robin Scott was one of the guys who snatched the NOTS materials from the CoS in Denmark in the 1980s. He wasn't at Int Base, so this doesn't directly answer your post but it may be useful information.

    In his recent book The Significance of Scientology he says he got a handwriting expert to look at the signatures on the document transferring the rights of LRH materials to RTC. The expert said that the LRH signature was forged and that the person who did it was the same person who notarized the document - David Miscavige.

    Robin also points out that Jesse Prince has stated that members of Int Management used to compete to see who could do the best forgery of LRH's signature.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I remember the 1990s well. I have much respect for Jesse Prince, Stacy Brooks, and Vaughn Young, but they did not come close to putting Miscavige in criminal jeopardy.

    Miscavige exists in a protected, insular, environment, modeled after the "pink legs" and "tight conspiracy" template as outline in various secret Hubbard writings plus his Bolivar Policy Letter, a.k.a. Responsibility of Leaders.

    Alanzo is not attacking them, now, because none of them are high on Miscavige's enemies list.


    Miscavige arose because he was one of Hubbard's favorites, and because he was ruthless, in the spirit of the application of Hubbard's "Pink legs" philosophy.

    Below, former Mission holder, Martin Samuels, explains why.

    From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels:

    __________________Begin quote__________________​

    Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

    The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

    The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

    And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

    And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

    And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...

    _____________End quote_____________​

    According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology':

    "...All these actions were taken to increase income. It is the same with the six month sec checks... But I want to make it clear that the whole idea came from LRH not from Miscavige. Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders... Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..."​

    To any future readers who might be studying this in archive form, Alanzo is playing malevolent head games. He is not to be trusted.
  16. Warrior

    Warrior Patron with Honors

    I agree about Alanzo.

    Jesse Prince is an honorable man who speaks the truth.

    Changes in finance policies were "slammed in" by a CMO Int mission to PAC beginning at the end March of 1980.

    At that time, I was posted as Treasury Secretary and Financial Planning Chairman ASHO Day. I held eleven more posts "from above". The posts were: 1) Board Finance Officer, 2) Director of Disbursements, 3) Financial Planning Liaison Officer, 4) Financial Planning Activation Officer, 5) Bills Paying Officer, 6) Payroll Officer, 7) Purchasing Officer, 8) Director of Records, Assets, and Materiel, 9) Banking Officer, 10) Supply Officer, and 11) Audits Officer.

    When these changes were ordered by the CMO Int missionaires, all of the executives at ASHO Day objected. When I say all, I very literally mean all of the execs, which means everyone, including all of the division heads, the Chief Officer, the Supercargo, the Commanding Officer, the LRH Comm, the Flag Rep, the FBO, and the AGF.

    The reason we objected is because the new finance system being implemented by the CMO Int. was perceived by us to be "squirrel". All of us (division heads and above) were given a briefing the the CMO Int missionaires. During the briefing, the new system, as well as the reason for its implementation was explained to us. All of us execs had a problem with the new finance system because the new finance policies that were being shoved down our throats were "green on white" (HCO PLs), but the issues were signed by various entities -- including WDC, the Board of Directors, or Lyman Spurlock.

    As anyone trained in Hubbard's administrative policies knows, HCO PLs ("green on white") were supposed to be a type of policy that only LRH could issue. If it wasn't signed by LRH and it contradicted LRH policy, we were bound by other LRH policy to 1) fail to implement or apply the policy, and 2) write a report to management explaining why the policy was "squirrel".

    In addition to violation Hubbard's HCO PL "Issues, Types Of", the new policy letters 1) contradicted existing Hubbard policies, and 2) they did not even state that the earlier Hubbard policies were modified, revised, superceded, or canceled.

    So in effect, we had, during that time, two different sets of finance policies. It was nuts. Totally crazy.

    When we execs voiced our objection to the new finance system, we were told that the new system was "Command Intention" and that we would follow the new policies "or else". The clear implication was that if we failed to comply to the CMO's orders, we would be removed from post and put on the RPF. The CMO Int mission "put a head on a pike" -- declaring one staff member -- in order to demonstrate they were very serious and to shut us all up. It worked.

    The gist of the new finance system was that is sent most of the money "uplines" to Sea Org Reserves, management units, and other reserve accounts, leaving very little for us locally. I recall that during 1981, staff members received almost no pay. There was a period of nine straight weeks that year where staff received no pay whatsoever. We were also frequently on a diet of rice and beans for lunch and dinner, with oatmeal, toast, and skim milk for breakfast.

    I continued to query the new finance system, writing reports to WDC, Flag, FOLO WUS, the GO WW, every week for 20 months (March of 1980 through the end of November of 1981). And during all these months, no one but no one, at any management level, responded to my queries.

    I blew the Sea Org on Thursday, December 3, 1981.
    Churchill likes this.
  17. Warrior

    Warrior Patron with Honors

    David Miscavige had begun -- at least as early as December of 1979 -- to order changes
    to LRH "technical" bulletins (HCOBs). One such change I vividly recall is a telex* to PAC
    that he sent from his position of Action Chief CMO Int. The telex -- which I still have a
    copy of to this day -- ordered a change to an existing HCO Bulletin that was part of the
    Purification Rundown series. I was one of the very first people in the world to do the
    Purification Rundown, beginning in December of 1979, when it first began as a pilot
    program in PAC. All of the execs (div heads and above) at ASHO and AOLA, were ordered
    to do the program, whether we wanted to or not.

    (*Note: I sent a copy of this telex to Virginia McClaughry around 19-20 years ago after
    speaking to her by phone about "squirreling" done by David Miscavige. Our conversation
    occurred shortly after she, her husband Mike, and Gregg & Debra Barnes left Scientology
    due to the "squirrel" requirement that OTs receive a security check every six months if
    they wished to remain eligible to receive "upper level" services.)

    I queried the order to do the Purification Rundown pilot program because I had already
    attested to completion of the Sweat Program a year and a half earlier, in July of 1978!
    On January 22, 1980, I completed the new Purification Rundown.
    As it had been administered as a "pilot program", I was ordered
    to do the Purif all over again because the procedure had been
    finalized and "standardized" by then.
  18. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

  19. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    I was not actually replying to you. I ceased to reply to you when you made use of insults toward me, weeks ago and for no reason. I don't talk with people who use verbal abuse, but retain my priviledged to speak about such behavior.

    Since this post of yours is decent , and shows you can be , we may have a discussion ( which is to share our viewpoints - and try to get mutual understanding, even when there is disagreement)

    Thus, if done with respect and acceptation, I will be glad to answer any real concern and question of your. Although I make good use of my energy, since, like some other members here, I have real challenges to to face...which, is for example , in my situation is a cancer ( like some others are facing or any other challenge) that commands a strict adhesion to ignore anything from anyone that would drain precious energy out.

    We all have a real life to deal with and real PT problems to address. I am not part of people looking for a karma on internet. Thus it may help you to understand some may not align with any internet crusade, while remaining open to real discussion and to be informed.

    If you agree with that, I'll be please to answer any real question you may have. But it shall be Questions Alanzo, no tricks like "when did you kill your mother" style.

    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019