Karen's list of class 12's

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I yet to see even the most experience sup here on ESMB toss out an appropriate reference for tape speed.

I'll tell you what I used to do with something similar. Sometimes a student would want to chew gum in the courseroom. There's no particular policy against it, but it looks awful sloppy. I would just show the guy the Courses Their Ideal Scene HCOB and say, look, there's no strict policy against it as you are not technically "eating in the courseroom" unless you swallow it. Unstated was "you know what ethics procedures are like in the SO: there's the letter of the law, there's the spirit of the law, and then there's what happens in real life". Your chewing gum in the courseroom runs the risk of ME getting declared for violating the Courses Their Ideal Scene HCOB, and I can't afford the risk.

I never had to push it with anyone.

Paul
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..


In '63, the speed up the tape play thing became a bit of the thing to do . . . Hubbs was sending us a tape-a-day . . .

Then word got out and there was an order to knock it off . . .
...


Surely not a VERBAL order :)

Anyway, I NEVER ( stupidly ) asked a sup if it was OK to speed up a tape.

C'mon, one HAs to have " certainty " & " knowingness " !

I yet to see even the most experience sup here on ESMB toss out an appropriate reference for tape speed.



:hysterical:

As one of those "most experienced supervisors here on ESMB" I do know the reference. KSW (Keeping Speeds Working).

Damn you and all the other CAPSTAN CRIMINALS!

If we don't hammer tape-speeding out of existence, all of the tech will be sabotaged and reduced to meaningless Chipmunk-sounding gibberish. As opposed to meaningless Hubbard-sounding gibberish.
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
I'll tell you what I used to do with something similar. Sometimes a student would want to chew gum in the courseroom. There's no particular policy against it, but it looks awful sloppy. I would just show the guy the Courses Their Ideal Scene HCOB and say, look, there's no strict policy against it as you are not technically "eating in the courseroom" unless you swallow it. Unstated was "you know what ethics procedures are like in the SO: there's the letter of the law, there's the spirit of the law, and then there's what happens in real life". Your chewing gum in the courseroom runs the risk of ME getting declared for violating the Courses Their Ideal Scene HCOB, and I can't afford the risk.

I never had to push it with anyone.

Paul

And, you are correct - almost no one would INTENTIONALLY cause their sup to get afoul 'courses their ideal scene' by doing something like chewing gum, etc.

Sitting there day after day after day listening to tapes that sup was noticing were, uh, playing faster than normal ? No one ever noticed. I don't see how something the sup nor the clipboard brigade never noticed could cause the sup any difficulty.

But, a sup that said what you said to a student would have been more than enough to get me to knock it off.

And, hey, did ever try speeding up the tapes yourself? God it so cures the droning !

Obviously the person running that shit risks getting caught. All gaming the system always has risks. Some minor, some major. I remember an adult then auditor who had sex with his underage PC & afterwards she went to see the MAA. Ugly ( as it should have been ) for him.


Sort of like that old " if a tree falls in the woods & no one is there to hear it happen . . . ." kind of thing, isn't it ?
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
..


...






:hysterical:

As one of those "most experienced supervisors here on ESMB" I do know the reference. KSW (Keeping Speeds Working).

Damn you and all the other CAPSTAN CRIMINALS!

If we don't hammer tape-speeding out of existence, all of the tech will be sabotaged and reduced to meaningless Chipmunk-sounding gibberish. As opposed to meaningless Hubbard-sounding gibberish.

Maybe I'm content to have 10,000 MUs ?

I'm proud of 'em ! I just might write a Success Story & get myself a fancy Cert done over at Office Depot.
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Sitting there day after day after day listening to tapes that sup was noticing were, uh, playing faster than normal ? No one ever noticed. I don't see how something the sup nor the clipboard brigade never noticed could cause the sup any difficulty.

The sup(s) should have noticed it, both from the speed the reels went round (with reel-to-reel players, not cassette players) and the speed with which you got through the tapes. The sup is supposed to set a daily checksheet target. It's pretty simple to add up how long the tapes are, add a factor for how "slow or fast" the student is, and set an appropriate target (I'm talking about checksheet items, not a [silly] quota for student points that I never set). I'm not challenging that no sup ever caught you. But the sup saying he never noticed so is blameless might sound fine in theory but isn't likely to wash at any subsequent real ethics event.

And, hey, did ever try speeding up the tapes yourself? God it so cures the droning !

No, I never even thought of it. Would I have done it myself if I had thought about it? Not on a proper course: too weird for me. I was quite happy to read transcripts instead of listening to tapes for my own pleasure, but on any courses I would do it "properly."

Paul
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Fast speed was a big improvement, a lot easier to understand what he was saying. Here's L Ron's lecture, 'Handling ARC Breaks and Blows' at fast speed:

[video=youtube;0CuSlnEhq-4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CuSlnEhq-4[/video]

Transcript:
L Ronald Flubbard


I stay up too late, got nothing in my brain
That's what people say mmm, that's what people say mm
I go on too many dates, but I can't make 'em stay
At least that's what people say mmm, that's what people say mmm
But I keep cruising, can't stop, won't stop moving
It's like I got this music in my body and it's gonna be alright
'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off
Heartbreakers gonna break, break, break, break, break
And the fakers gonna fake, fake, fake, fake, fake
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off
I'll never miss a beat, I'm lightning on my feet
And…



 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
The sup(s) should have noticed it, both from the speed the reels went round (with reel-to-reel players, not cassette players) and the speed with which you got through the tapes. The sup is supposed to set a daily checksheet target. It's pretty simple to add up how long the tapes are, add a factor for how "slow or fast" the student is, and set an appropriate target (I'm talking about checksheet items, not a [silly] quota for student points that I never set). I'm not challenging that no sup ever caught you. But the sup saying he never noticed so is blameless might sound fine in theory but isn't likely to wash at any subsequent real ethics event.



No, I never even thought of it. Would I have done it myself if I had thought about it? Not on a proper course: too weird for me. I was quite happy to read transcripts instead of listening to tapes for my own pleasure, but on any courses I would do it "properly."

Paul

What " the sup should have noticed..." ? Not to say it the wrong way, but, that was never my - God they loved this word ! - responsibility.

I'd never back flash or deliberately challenge a sup, I respected them. Some like Carol Ferguson or Sara Santisicerra I'd really to know now if they are out & I hope they are !

Both were just great people. ( And I'm NOT praising scientology here, I'm talking about PEOPLE I really admired who happened to be in scientology )

And, for the record, I had no quarrel with you & back then, you - or may not - have been the sup on a course I took in PAC.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
What " the sup should have noticed..." ? Not to say it the wrong way, but, that was never my - God they loved this word ! - responsibility.

I'm not saying it is. Where I was sup'ing (ITO mostly) if it had been discovered that a student was doing that the sup would most likely have been comm-eved, whatever happened with the student. Rights and wrongs don't come into it really -- that was just the way it was.

And, for the record, I had no quarrel with you & back then, you - or may not - have been the sup on a course I took in PAC.

Ditto. I never sup'd in PAC apart from a few hours twice, once for a demo of ITO's "superior sup tech" (God, that was awkward) and once because I needed to sup a public Div 6 courseroom for the HPCSC Internship I was doing.

Paul
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
<snip>​
Where I was sup'ing (ITO mostly) if it had been discovered that a student was doing that the sup would most likely have been comm-eved, whatever happened with the student. Rights and wrongs don't come into it really -- that was just the way it was.
<snip>​
Paul
It'd also be fair to say some of the insanity is predictable - and some of it is so unpredictable.

When the shit hits fan the splatter stinks.

We've both seen good people declared, . . .RPF'd, . . .or just shattered, . . . or slaughtered.

No rhyme or reason in sight . . . . sometimes no sight, just blindly done !
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'll tell you what I used to do with something similar. Sometimes a student would want to chew gum in the courseroom. There's no particular policy against it, but it looks awful sloppy.
There is a big difference between chewing gum and chewing hubbard's vomit...

I would just show the guy the Courses Their Ideal Scene HCOB and say, look, there's no strict policy against it as you are not technically "eating in the courseroom" unless you swallow it. Unstated was "you know what ethics procedures are like in the SO: there's the letter of the law, there's the spirit of the law, and then there's what happens in real life". Your chewing gum in the courseroom runs the risk of ME getting declared for violating the Courses Their Ideal Scene HCOB, and I can't afford the risk.

I never had to push it with anyone.

Paul
But you wouldn't have success with me, because already at this time (80's) I had understood the important laws of "networking". Therefore I had built a second piece of said randomity-controller for a wealthy and influental woman who was bored with slow-speed-listening. I had to build a second one because those randomity-controller didn't stay connected to the course-room tape-machines (they were only for "expert-use" [= fast-flow-students]), and I was tired to lend mine to this wealthy woman.

So you would have to explain the MAA why this wealthy woman - as a fast-flow-student - is not allowed to listen tapes in her optimum-randomity speed.

And yes, sometimes the DofT and the QualSec used this groundbreaking invention too (after they couldn´t find a policy which forbids it).... soooo...

But I have to say that I never listened to Hubbards vomit in double speed - normally 15% to 20% faster should be enough not to "dope off".

HelluvaHoax! said:
If we don't hammer tape-speeding out of existence, all of the tech will be sabotaged and reduced to meaningless Chipmunk-sounding gibberish.
It must not sound like chipmunk. Even in the 80's there already existed so called pitch-transposers and I seriously thought about building a small unit for [STRIKE]capstan-criminals[/STRIKE] expert-use.

HelluvaHoax! said:
As opposed to meaningless Hubbard-sounding gibberish.
What appears to be the bigger problem. If you would apply "Hannibal Lecter's* Law" (= simplification; reduce it to the essential) and remove all of the useless, paranoid or self-adulating drug-induced stuff (including war-hero-fairy-tales etc.) from the tapes then you could probably finish each of Hubbard tapes within 3 minutes - in normal speed.



*Psychiatrist from the film "Silence of the Lambs"
 
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Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
All psychotic leaders face a similar problem: there just aren't enough psychopaths to build a large organization with. Plus, psychopaths get bored and wander off if their own personal goals aren't being met.

.....................
Most psychotic people are not psychopaths.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
There is a big difference between chewing gum and chewing hubbard's vomit...


But you wouldn't have success with me, because already at this time (80's) I had understood the important laws of "networking". Therefore I had built a second piece of said randomity-controller for a wealthy and influental woman who was bored with slow-speed-listening. I had to build a second one because those randomity-controller didn't stay connected to the course-room tape-machines (they were only for "expert-use" [= fast-flow-students]), and I was tired to lend mine to this wealthy woman.

So you would have to explain the MAA why this wealthy woman - as a fast-flow-student - is not allowed to listen tapes in her optimum-randomity speed.

And yes, sometimes the DofT and the QualSec used this groundbreaking invention too (after they couldn´t find a policy which forbids it).... soooo...

But I have to say that I never listened to Hubbards vomit in double speed - normally 15% to 20% faster should be enough not to "dope off".


It must not sound like chipmunk. Even in the 80's there already existed so called pitch-transposers and I seriously thought about building a small unit for [STRIKE]capstan-criminals[/STRIKE] expert-use.


What appears to be the bigger problem. If you would apply "Hannibal Lecter's* Law" (= simplification; reduce it to the essential) and remove all of the useless, paranoid or self-adulating drug-induced stuff (including war-hero-fairy-tales etc.) from the tapes then you could probably finish each of Hubbard tapes within 3 minutes - in normal speed.


Love that concept!

It would make a fascinating thread, to revise the "Ideal Checksheet Completion Time" for each Scientology course, if all of the flamboyant rhetoric, bombast, raconteurial pretense, marketing spin, propaganda, sophistry, fantasy & delusory deception was simply cut out.

I wrote a post a couple months ago that reduced the epic-length pedantry of "STUDY TECH" down to "2-3 hours at most".



........But that reminds me of something I posted recently about the absurdly over bloated hyperbole and fanfare that Scientology places on its "TECH". Specifically I wrote about Study Tech and suggested how the entirety of the "miraculous" study tech could be taught in 2-3 hours at most. No student hat. No listening to dozens of hours of Hubbard's lectures. Just the "3 Barriers" (according to Scn) and you get a little free business card that has the barriers (and what to do) printed on it, if you ever forget it.

Likewise, the TRs. How many hours to Scientologists spend during their "bridge" practicing and re-doing TRs? Hundreds and in many cases thousands of hours. For what? To learn how to look at someone and ask them a question or to say "OKAY" (acknowledgment) when they say something?

WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT TRS? If Scientology is to make the ABLE more able, wouldn't an able person be able to talk to another without interrupting them?

TRS should, likewise, take 2-3 hours at most to train a Scientologist for life

So, on the Scientologists first day in the org, they can complete the study tech AND TRs. And never have to re-do or re-pay or re-train on those, no matter how many "breakthoughs" are touted in the decades thereafter.

Oh, wait, they still have a couple more hours the first day they are in Scientology. So let's teach them all the rest of the Scientology basics. EXAMPLES:

* Completing cycles of action (appx. time: 2 minutes. You have them read about why it's a good idea to finish things and how it will make them feel better and get more done. That's about it. There's nothing else to say. If the don't want to finish things after that, then they won't.

* Objectives (appx time 3 minutes): You explain what "present time" is to the new scientologist. You ask them if they have any problems getting in present time. If they say "yes" you give them some colorful jigsaw puzzles that are used by 5 year olds in kindergarten. You tell them to put the jigsaw's big blocky, bright-colored pieces in place. If they can do that, they are in present time. If they still think they are not in present time, have them walk around the course room and look at things until they think they are looking at things. To be sure, tell them to write down what they see. If they correctly identify a chair, book and the floor, it's a pretty good bet they are in "pt". (by the way, 99 percent of new scientologists are already in "pt" because they work in a job, saved money, paid the money to the org and drove themselves to course. They could not have done any of those things if they are not in "present time")

* Conditions Tech (appx. time 10 minutes): If the person complains that they are having trouble with something, have them write down how they have tried to solve it in the past that didn't work. Then tell them to try something else that would work. If they are stumped, give them a homework assignment before tomorrow's class to go on the internet and find someone who solved that problem before. And do what they did.)


Scientology: Advanced cosmic technology. Like the discovery of TR-1. To speak loudly and clearly enough to be understood. Hubbard claims he evolved the metaphysical tech from wholetrack research and his interplanetary experience. But, strangely 5 year olds on earth gain the very same skill when someone tells them to "Speak up and stop mumbling".
 

Hypatia

Pagan
I used to hate listening to his maunderings about his hobbies and all that and getting-OMG- starrated on them.
 
I used to hate listening to his maunderings about his hobbies and all that and getting-OMG- starrated on them.
I always thought the combination of the HCOB's, the PL's and the tapes, (and in some case films) with different dates, with some things contradicting others, and some things that just didn't make any sense made the subject hard to study.

A couple for instance or three:
In the tapes about the Helatrobus implants, he has talking bombs flying in Magellanic Clouds passing through solar systems as part of an implanting campaign. Granted, these clouds expand at a great rate of speed, but they are huge beyond belief. It is about the most inefficient way do to that sort of thing - why not send a space ship over to the planet. And close up they wouldn't look like a talking cloud anyway, they are misty clouds of dust with the particles far apart, so far apart you likely wouldn't know you were in the cloud any way. Certainly not like a puffy cloud blowing across the summer sky.

One could make a process about that: "If you were a talking cloud, what would you say to Ron?" Kidding aside, in his tapes they say confusing things like come here , go back etc.

Even if it was bad SF, it made "Plan 9 from Outer Space" look like Stephen Hawkins wrote it.

The whole business with removing the old and valid definitions of F/N from the tech, or the removal of the can squeeze, made no sense at all.

In DMSMH, he posits that nerve cells grew from impacts, which is why you have more nerves in your fingers the in your arms. I was doing the basics when I hit that one, and I never was able to finish the book - I couldn't tell if he was joking or badly informed, but being written with such seriousness, they expect me to take it as the gospel? I don't have a DMSMH to quote the line from, because it's much worse than I mention, akin to cave men hit their heads on low lying branches which is why their brains evolved so much.

The meter reads films were terrible. I wrote to them to redo the films using a faster film rate, because the 24 fps was too slow to show the reads accurately. They didn't bother to even ack that one. Say nothing of the variety of f/ns with different motions, and they show one?

I could go on, but, it was a very hodgepodge pasted together with duct tape and bailing wire approach to presenting a subject, and I am not even getting into the Blind leading the blind BS GAT one stuff. I don't want to get drunk this early in the morning after going into that.

Yeah - maybe it is a blessing they don't offer the BC any more.

Mimsey
 

RogerB

Crusader
:biggrin: Yeh, for krissakes, Mims, don't get too drunk too early in the day, it can affect the finding correct keys on the keyboard!:ohmy:

R
 

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
True, I think you could argue the two are mutually exclusive (AFAIK, in the UK if a criminal is declared to be psychopathic after a psychiatric examination he (or she?) is also declared to be sane).
They aren't exclusive. In my opinion, LRH is an example of someone who was both psychotic and psychopathic. I agree that someone who is only psychopathic (conscience free) is sane. Such conscience free people are often admired and followed. What makes LRH so interesting to me is that I believe he was both conscience free and a paranoid schizophrenic who was able to make a fortune with an obvious con that still lives on. It is unusual for a paranoid schizophrenic to have more than a few followers and to be so financially successful. Like many other paranoid schizophrenics LRH had "delusions of grandeur" and believed his mental illness was actually his superior abilities or "super powers". He was then able to obtain and convince followers or students to pay him large amounts of money to teach them how to have similar abilities. Every day there are hundreds, maybe thousands of paranoid schizophrenics trying to do the same thing but they are laughed at or pitied.
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
They aren't exclusive. In my opinion, LRH is an example of someone who was both psychotic and psychopathic. I agree that someone who is only psychopathic (conscience free) is sane. Such conscience free people are often admired and followed. What makes LRH so interesting to me is that I believe he was both conscience free and a paranoid schizophrenic who was able to make a fortune with an obvious con that still lives on. It is unusual for a paranoid schizophrenic to have more than a few followers and to be so financially successful. Like many other paranoid schizophrenics LRH had "delusions of grandeur" and believed his mental illness was actually his superior abilities or "super powers". He was then able to obtain and convince followers or students to pay him large amounts of money to teach them how to have similar abilities. Every day there are hundreds, maybe thousands of paranoid schizophrenics trying to do the same thing but they are laughed at or pitied.

Nice eye opening evaluation of Hubbard. And to think that he was emulated and many of his followers became little hubbards. Very scary! :omg:
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
Astute observation ! And so much eloquent than bat-shit-crazy-child molester.

They aren't exclusive. In my opinion, LRH is an example of someone who was both psychotic and psychopathic. I agree that someone who is only psychopathic (conscience free) is sane. Such conscience free people are often admired and followed. What makes LRH so interesting to me is that I believe he was both conscience free and a paranoid schizophrenic who was able to make a fortune with an obvious con that still lives on. It is unusual for a paranoid schizophrenic to have more than a few followers and to be so financially successful. Like many other paranoid schizophrenics LRH had "delusions of grandeur" and believed his mental illness was actually his superior abilities or "super powers". He was then able to obtain and convince followers or students to pay him large amounts of money to teach them how to have similar abilities. Every day there are hundreds, maybe thousands of paranoid schizophrenics trying to do the same thing but they are laughed at or pitied.
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
speeding up tapes was easily done on the reel to reel players - we wrapped some paper around the spindle and it played faster - more paper, faster it went. You didn't have to make it so fast he sounded like a chipmunk on helium - just a little bit was plenty. Some high end cassette players have speed adjustment capability.

On the reel to reel tapes there was stuff that was edited out in the cassette versions, like him lighting a kool, from the sound of it, I think he used a zippo.

What always struck me was his personality shift - there are a few tapes with student Q&A at the end of them. He would be this affable guy during the lecture, then when the Q&A started he became arrogant, impatient, while fielding their questions.

Mimsey

On some of the reel-to-reel players you could hold the Fast Forward lever 'just so' and it would play faster.
If you pushed it all the way to its normal FF position, the playback heads would disengage and you couldn't hear anything.
 
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