Karen's list of class 12's

phenomanon

Canyon
Is Carolyn Webb the wife of Art Webb. Art, last I knew, was doing OT7 6 month checks At the Sandcastle - very nice guy !

Rick only once spoke to me & I wanted to break his jaw - I'd still like to break his jaw ! LOL !


If Carlolyn Webb is the same Carolyn who was auditing ASHO's HGC in the 70/80s, she must've cried her way to Cl12. What a crybaby. She was devastated that PCs were being assigned to " Jana Only".
The C/S explained to her that my Comm cycle was very different than hers. LOL. The SO auditors were not pleased that Senior C/S assigned PCs to "Jana Only" because I refused to work for Stats or VWD's or anything other than fixing the PC and getting him on back to his Bridge. Like Sheila says.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Re: listening to tapes ?

Yeah, Student Hat, IIRC. Lectures give the attitude and feel for the subject that would otherwise be lost on written-word only. Listening to LRH the chipmunk would destroy that guideline.

Make of it what you will. Back in '75 I knew of BC students who were busted for doing that.

O yes! We ran the tapes faster, but we were smart enuff not to get caught.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
The sup(s) should have noticed it, both from the speed the reels went round (with reel-to-reel players, not cassette players) and the speed with which you got through the tapes. The sup is supposed to set a daily checksheet target. It's pretty simple to add up how long the tapes are, add a factor for how "slow or fast" the student is, and set an appropriate target (I'm talking about checksheet items, not a [silly] quota for student points that I never set). I'm not challenging that no sup ever caught you. But the sup saying he never noticed so is blameless might sound fine in theory but isn't likely to wash at any subsequent real ethics event.



No, I never even thought of it. Would I have done it myself if I had thought about it? Not on a proper course: too weird for me. I was quite happy to read transcripts instead of listening to tapes for my own pleasure, but on any courses I would do it "properly."

Paul


I graduated the SHSBC in a bit less than 2 years of week-ends. That was the entire BC plus hundreds of hours of auditing the Public HGC. I couldn't have even listened to all those fooking tapes in that length of time ( ask Lakey) had I listened to LRH instruct on camera settings, and mariner's tales and other BS.
The first day on the BC my Sup set a target for me. I finished it in less than an hour and called her over to ask what came next. I ended up setting my own targets. I couldn't have whooshed thru the BC as I did if I had lissened to those tapes at full speed.
I never got caught, and if I had it wouldn't ,mean much as my daily Stats had me in Power, and it showed. I got away with so much. Now that I am "out", I realize that my Ethics level would never have been accepted by COS. I really didn't care about the rules and regulations, I sorta thought thay were Hype, and I did whatever I had to do to "make it go right". LMFAO!
 

phenomanon

Canyon
The sup(s) should have noticed it, both from the speed the reels went round (with reel-to-reel players, not cassette players) and the speed with which you got through the tapes. The sup is supposed to set a daily checksheet target. It's pretty simple to add up how long the tapes are, add a factor for how "slow or fast" the student is, and set an appropriate target (I'm talking about checksheet items, not a [silly] quota for student points that I never set). I'm not challenging that no sup ever caught you. But the sup saying he never noticed so is blameless might sound fine in theory but isn't likely to wash at any subsequent real ethics event.



No, I never even thought of it. Would I have done it myself if I had thought about it? Not on a proper course: too weird for me. I was quite happy to read transcripts instead of listening to tapes for my own pleasure, but on any courses I would do it "properly."

Paul

We didn't have Transcriptions when I did the BC. Only tapes.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
If Carlolyn Webb is the same Carolyn who was auditing ASHO's HGC in the 70/80s, she must've cried her way to Cl12. What a crybaby. She was devastated that PCs were being assigned to " Jana Only".
The C/S explained to her that my Comm cycle was very different than hers. LOL. The SO auditors were not pleased that Senior C/S assigned PCs to "Jana Only" because I refused to work for Stats or VWD's or anything other than fixing the PC and getting him on back to his Bridge. Like Sheila says.


All true. :thumbsup: Jana was one of the rare ones who stood her ground and audited exclusively for the pc, never fooled or tricked into doing things that they didn't want, never convinced herself that a forced smile was the same as a truly happy pc. :)

Carolyn Webb... Hmmm :hmm: I am thinking maybe Carolyn Webb was Carolyn Holt, Dave Holt's wife? The Carolyn who was auditing NOTS at AOLA later on would have gone the 'short route' from Class IV to Class IX when AOLA needed NOTS auditors, there was no time for her to be doing the BC between. IDK if she ever made it to Class XII, would have been well after I left in '86.

BTW, guys, I have family stuff to look after in the next few weeks so may not be on for a bit. Don't start worrying like last time I took a break, k? x x x
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, but HOW? I'm saying it's a bunch of neurons and synapses only because you 'psychic' and 'intuitive' guys can not provide me with a rational answer to that question. What exactly is doing the knowing? Are you one of Hubbard's Thetans Hypatia? Do you think you are trillions of years old?

How can you see without eyes? How can you hear without ears? Saying 'oh well, you just do it', or you 'radiate', just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

Terril keeps going on about how he's 'exteriorised', but since I asked him how he managed to perceive the world around him without the body's eyes, he now states he 'never has ext perception', whatever that means.

Call me a reductionist and materialist if you like, but until someone provides me with a meaningful alternative...

I definitely hear what you are getting at. And as regards a meaningful alternative, years ago, I saw a video online explaining something along the line of an alternative sensory perception input which preceded the firing of the synapses. I might have saved a link in my semi-organized copious notepad files, buried somewhere deep under some ###### file on my 3TB back up drive. I will have a quick lookie around and see if I can find it.
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
....
BTW, guys, I have family stuff to look after in the next few weeks so may not be on for a bit. Don't start worrying like last time I took a break, k? x x x
look, you should now the procedure by now:
first CSW and then LOA :coolwink:..... got it (a brain) ?
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Uh, perhaps the difficulty here is trying to listen to someone who believes in the tek of Doctor Hubbard. Most of us, back when we were up to our eyeballs in the cult, believed some pretty wild stuff, say like OT 3, BTs & Clusters & that we were saving the world !

There are people who still deeply believe all that shit. When you have a conversation with them they are going to spew that cult shit that you know is shit : they don't know that yet. They are sincere in what they speak about & have no clue they are deeply deluded with shit that has never worked, can never work, will never work.

In short, they are stuck in a delusion world. Let 'em be. Some people get out of the cult & some are going to die in the cult. And, then, there are a few that while they leave the cult can not rid themselves of the cult mindset - oh, they are still very much in the cult . . . they just don't know it !

I like Terril. To my way of thinking he is severely misguided & wasting his life, but, that is his choice. ( He may well feel I'm wasting my life by turning my back on the tek & happily waving my middle finger at it )

I'm so mellow today. I'll end this post now :)

First my apologies to Karen for my extreme diversion tactic of wandering so far off topic. I beg on bended knee for forgiveness and not the RPF for the overt or my last response to strativarius, or not if I was wearing my OSA hat.

Trying to come up the conditions and a little more on topic, but not totally. I will leave this.

https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/scientol

ogys-vortex-of-hate/
Brian | March 31, 2015 at 6:33 pm | Reply
Hey Val,
Long time no talkie :)

In my opinion, the essence of Scientology’s mindset,

the “flag ship” metaphysical delusion is OT3 and it’s

spawn Nots.

Acknowledging OT3 as science and truth summarizes in

one belief system the capacity of the human mind to

be self deluded through faith and experience based on

an unreality.

The insidious nature of OT3 is people are running

Ron’s archetypal space opera myths and blowing off

charge. That is really happening. When the charge

blows or a person has an out of body experience they

then hard wire the connection between blowing charge

and BTs.

This is where the problem lies. This is where a

falsehood is acknowledged as a reality and then the

whole R6 thing is seen as a singular genius discovery

by Hubbard.

Being a meditator my whole life, every day, sometimes

for hrs, I have come to know my own mind and

thoughts. And have become more proficient at

recognizing the causes of my experiences.

I have come to being able to detect very subtle

forces. Forces of mind, thought and other entities.

This is not unfamiliar territory.

OT3 is dangerous to being able to see the actual

cause of thought itself, as the only cause for our

suffering, because it superimposes a make believe

cosmology that actually puts us at effect: Something

is doing something to us. This is the essence of

victimhood not cause.

So instead of being responsible for all of the crap

that rolls around in our cabasa as our own creation,

the theory of BTs leaves the solo auditor in a

position where they are not seeing that THEY ARE

MOCKING IT UP.
THEY ARE CREATING IT.

Once this form of deluded philosophy and practice is

seen as truth, the true cause of thought and feelings

is not seen.

There are people one this level for years. My X Wife

went crazy on OT3 expanded. Became homeless and no

one has seen here since the 80s.

L Ron Hubbard wished to commit suicide during a Nots

solo session.

Up the bridge to OT means the continuation of

delusion and not seeing the true structure of the

mind, thought, body and emotions.

It is impossible to be “cause” if the procedure is

based on a lie.
11:24 PM 2/8/2016
Acknowledging OT3 as science and truth summarizes in

one belief system the capacity of the human mind to

be self deluded through faith and experience based on

an unreality.

The insidious nature of OT3 is people are running

Ron’s archetypal space opera myths and blowing off

charge. That is really happening. When the charge

blows or a person has an out of body experience they

then hard wire the connection between blowing charge

and BTs.

*******See that, no verbal teck even...:wink2::biggrin:
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't go through the whole thread

Here are just raw thoughts.

$cientology pseudo-exteriorizations are, to me, only and solely a depersonalization phenomanon. I can clearly remember to be ''exterior , out of my body' for about one month...had few other pseudo-exteriorizations like going far into the sky..it was at Flag...(to escape the darkness)

I've seen many peeple who were too having pseudo-exteriorizations..
some of them gone psychotic ...
others looked like being in their bubble...particularly on OT3 - 7-8
some of them couldn't align their body to go through a door opening (me)

I came to think (in $cientology) the ''mind or soul or whatever'' is really brought out of synchronization with both mental and body..misaligned would be a best word.
That is mainly what $cientology can achieve...fucking the soul\mental\body harmony.
The Auditing, conditionning indoctrination sloop disturb their natural way of working synchronized


So I'd say $cientology pseuso-exteriorization is a phenomanon of misalignement of the 3 bodies..the loss of alignement create a sens of inhabiting 'aside' of this world.. because the 3 bodies arent ''here and now'' anymore....The body is in a place different than the mind is and the soul is lost somewhere else....in favor of brain and ego quest activities.

Later on, when persuing my buddhist studies and practice , especially the tantric initiations (which are very very special stuff) I had exteriorizations that are caused by the ''sudden awareness or the soul or whatever'' taking a huge expansion to reach other dimensions.
It's like if the souls is encountering a long orgasm of reaching others dimension never expected...
Thre is no time anymore..only infinite space.
Was to me totally different than $cientology ''exteriorization''

It is a complete different thing...there is no misalignement...it's more like inhabiting another dimensions as well as being here...It too happened, when I encountered death..very beautifull experience when the mind reach what we call ''paradises''...it's like a great awareness of soul going back home and the ''I am...'

The perceptive thing, uses in $cientology is, to my opinion, a scam...when we have such experience of ''being exterior'' the journey is reminded very ''crystal clear'' and we are so much impressed we never forgets what happened...It doesn't have anything to do with smell, hearing, touching but with the vastitude, the infinite , the greatness, the beauty, the infinite space, the movement, but more about the felling within the soul....

I think it would ressemble what some people experience with heavy drugs..but the mind an mentals are aware --one knows it's not an hallucination but a real journey into new worlds.

When it does happen people talk to me about it , its funny
a $cientologist would say :
""Hey, I had an exteriorization with full perceptions or whatever (LRH implants in the mind)


Other people
who really had such of out of the body experiences would remain very private about it and just let slip a general idea about it..after we insist..because its something very intimate They woudl say something like :
' I had a strange experience - I think I went into another world, I entered\was in a new dimension..and that was beautifull and vast..'' and that is it!
(they usually say there is no words to describe it)

If I would be a dogmatic believer I would say this is what christians and buddhists call ''heavens'' When coming back from heavens people find we emanate something serene to the opposite of a bizaroid smile of glee, when coming back from volcanoes...

I don't have a clue if out-of body exeriences can conduct into 'hell' though as I really don't like heat and stay away of ugly guys having a tail!

* Music *

Heavens..I'm in Heavens...:happydance:
:wink2:

uh ohhhhhhh here I go again.. THE MIND IS AN AMAZING CHARIOT............

" 5:49 PM 5/1/2015

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?39328-You-

can-be-invisible-too
regarding a post by Catarina
ON 'invisibility' as perceived reality

Doctoral student Zakaryah Abdulkarim shows how it is

possible to create an illusion of invisibility in the

lab. Credit: Staffan Larsson.
The power of invisibility has long fascinated man and

inspired the works of many great authors and

philosophers. In a study from Sweden’s Karolinska

Institutet, a team of neuroscientists today reports a

perceptual illusion of having an invisible body and

show that the feeling of invisibility changes our

physical stress response in challenging social

situations.

The history of literature features many well-known

narrations of invisibility and its effect on the

human mind, such as the myth of Gyges’ ring in

Plato’s dialogue The Republic and the science fiction

novel The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells. Recent

advances in materials science have shown that

invisibility cloaking of large-scale objects, such as

a human body, might be possible in the not-so-distant

future; however, it remains unknown how invisibility

would affect our brain and body perception.

The participant wearing a set of head-mounted

displays. Credit: Staffan Larsson.
In an article in the journal Scientific Reports, the

researchers describe a perceptual illusion of having

an invisible body. The experiment involves the

participant standing up and wearing a set of head-

mounted displays. The participant is then asked to

look down at her body, but instead of her real body

she sees empty space. To evoke the feeling of having

an invisible body, the scientist touches the

participant’s body in various locations with a large

paintbrush while, with another paintbrush held in the

other hand, exactly imitating the movements in mid-

air in full view of the participant.

“Within less than a minute, the majority of the

participants started to transfer the sensation of

touch to the portion of empty space where they saw

the paintbrush move and experienced an invisible body

in that position,” says Arvid Guterstam, lead author

of the present study. “We showed in a previous study

that the same illusion can be created for a single

hand. The present study demonstrates that the

‘invisible hand illusion’ can, surprisingly, be

extended to an entire invisible body.”
Make a stabbing motion

The study examined the illusion experience in 125

participants. To demonstrate that the illusion

actually worked, the researchers would make a

stabbing motion with a knife toward the empty space

that represented the belly of the invisible body. The

participants’ sweat response to seeing the knife was

elevated while experiencing the illusion but absent

when the illusion was broken, which suggests that the

brain interprets the threat in empty space as a

threat directed toward one’s own body.

Arvid Guterstam. Credit: Ulf Sirborn.
In another part of the study, the researchers

examined whether the feeling of invisibility affects

social anxiety by placing the participants in front

of an audience of strangers.

“We found that their heart rate and self-reported

stress level during the ‘performance’ was lower when

they immediately prior had experienced the invisible

body illusion compared to when they experienced

having a physical body,” says Arvid Guterstam. “These

results are interesting because they show that the

perceived physical quality of the body can change the

way our brain processes social cues.”

Henrik Ehrsson. Credit: Sune Fridell.
The researches hope that the results of the study

will be of value to future clinical research, for

example in the development of new therapies for

social anxiety disorder.

“Follow-up studies should also investigate whether

the feeling of invisibility affects moral decision-

making, to ensure that future invisibility cloaking

does not make us lose our sense of right and wrong,

which Plato asserted over two millennia ago,” says

principal investigator Dr. Henrik Ehrsson, professor

at the Department of Neuroscience.

This research was funded by the Swedish Research

Council, and the Söderberg Foundation.

View our press release about this research
Read a news article in New Scientist
And in the Washington Post

Publication

Illusory ownership of an invisible body reduces

autonomic and subjective social anxiety responses
Arvid Guterstam, Zakaryah Abdulkarim & Henrik Ehrsson
Scientific Reports online 23 April 2015, doi: doi:

10.1038/srep0983
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
BTW, guys, I have family stuff to look after in the next few weeks so may not be on for a bit. Don't start worrying like last time I took a break, k? x x x


:no:


Oooooh no you don't Mrs! You can't just go sloping off and leave me sat sitting here staring at the screen in excited anticipation of your upcoming goat stories.

You can spare us a few minutes a day ... can't ya?


:biggrin:
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
There are many things that can be said about any kind of therapy.

I audited cherch therapy for so many years that my paradigm (viewpoint) may be different.

I do, now older and wiser see the fatal flaws.

In any religion, there is much to share ~~ to increase compassion, increase forgiveness, lessen HATE, increase Love and Affection, tolerance of fellow man, benevolence, letting go of past animosities and to reach a "higher self."

In all the length and breath of Scientology, there is no process, no bulletin, no tape, no lecture, no issue to teach FORGIVENESS. To teach KINDNESS.
(Dai Lai Lama quote : My Religion is KINDNESS. ~~ what a great thing to say)

On the other hand Scientology Inc displays increasing HATE in all its ADS. Using Google to promote Hate websites on its "Freedom Mag" site.

And in the therapy of Scientology it is a one way street of *ONLY* asking for *YOUR* crimes, your witholds, your unsavory deeds, your overts.
Your Evil purposes, Your critical thoughts, Your contra survival urges, Your unworthy impulses.
This is done for *YEARS* in the RPF.
It was done for years in SP Hole.
It was done for decades to those who hit the decks or fell into disgrace.
I cannot imagine anything *more* unhealthy for a person than to have him divebomb into his mind year in and year out looking for EVIL.

No enlightment in any other vector than the person's *crimes*.
There are no mistakes in the mind of Scientology.
There are only CRIMES.

A staff member or public did not accidentally omit to do or do something.
He committed a criminal act.

That is Scientology and I have done every course and every piece of training from here to Sunset.
It is only about *Your* darker side.
And there is no balance of elevating you to higher levels.

This is why OT 7s and OT 8s kill themselves in suicide and OT 7s and OT8s flee and go into the more merciful Buddhism and others leave all Religion behind, certainly EP out of the cherch of Scientology.

https://theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com/

Soul hacking to let the darkness come in and be 'nourished' ? Maybe Leonard Cohen should compose a musical poem about that....oh wait...maybe not..lol

And as an aside, and I find some merit in the ideas...

******

HUMAN NATURE, BUDDHA NATURE
On Spiritual Bypassing, Relationship, and the Dharma
An interview with John Welwood by Tina Fossella


TF: You introduced the term “spiritual bypassing” 30 years ago now. For those who are unfamiliar with the concept, could you define and explain what it is?

JW: Spiritual bypassing is a term I coined to describe a process I saw happening in the Buddhist community I was in, and also in myself. Although most of us were sincerely trying to work on ourselves, I noticed a widespread tendency to use spiritual ideas and practices to sidestep or avoid facing unresolved emotional issues, psychological wounds, and unfinished developmental tasks.

When we are spiritually bypassing, we often use the goal of awakening or liberation to rationalize what I call premature transcendence: trying to rise above the raw and messy side of our humanness before we have fully faced and made peace with it. And then we tend to use absolute truth to disparage or dismiss relative human needs, feelings, psychological problems, relational difficulties, and developmental deficits. I see this as an “occupational hazard” of the spiritual path, in that spirituality does involve a vision of going beyond our current karmic situation......."

****

........much more in there too.

*******
The basic human wound, which is prevalent in the modern world, forms around not feeling loved or intrinsically lovable as we are. Inadequate love or attunement is shocking and traumatic for a child’s developing and highly sensitive nervous system. And as we internalize how we were parented, our capacity to value ourselves, which is also the basis for valuing others, becomes damaged. I call this a “relational wound“ or the “wound of the heart.”

........

JW: There is a whole body of study and research in Western psychology showing how close bonding and loving attunement— what is known as “secure attachment” — have powerful impacts on every aspect of human development. Secure attachment has a tremendous effect on many dimensions of our health, well-being, and capacity to function effectively in the world: how our brains form, how well our endocrine and immune systems function, how we handle emotions, how subject we are to depression, how our nervous system functions and handles stress, and how we relate to others.

...

As John Muir the naturalist wrote: “When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find that it is bound fast by a thousand invisible cords that cannot be broken, to everything in the universe.”
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I vaguely remember her from SH (UK) in the early 70s. Tall, with long straight brown hair. Australian?

Paul

Oh Paul do you know where there is a photo of 'Greg Smith' the cousin of Judge John Doyle of the Laura DeCrescenzo case? http://tonyortega.org/2016/05/20/sc...uit-and-wants-recent-order-voided/#more-31068

and from a few days earlier
http://tonyortega.org/2016/05/17/ju...impartial-in-forced-abortion-case/#more-31013


UPDATE: The Greg Smith at Mace-Kingsley in Clearwater is apparently not the Greg Smith at Saint Hill. We’re still looking for a photo of him.
 
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