Karen's list of class 12's

[Boojuum]

...

The entire 2 hours, Hubbard talks about returning to their various Orgs and whipping them into shape. PUNISHMENT, convening Courts of Ethics, Convening Comm Evs, using ETHICS PRESENCE to smash and subdue. To use Class VIII status to beat them into submission so to speak. This was the year of the original over boarding even for those who could not swim. One Class VIII student got so traumatized that they left the Apollo after being fished out of the ocean.

There is not one word in this entire 2 hour Class VIII lecture coaching on compassion, loyalty, forgiveness, generosity, helping others. Not a word.
There is nothing about Spirituality or the Spiritual nature of a human.
It is only about punishment and dominance and how to do it.
​

...

Another knockout punch from Karen #1 to the Church of Scientology!

Seeing (again!) Hubbard's need to force people to obey his whims is revelatory. Hubbard was all about controlling others.

I think most of us who were in didn't understand that anyone could be that selfish.

Controlling others is all about making someone GIVE UP THEIR OWN GOALS.

Thanks Karen #1!

 

[F.Bullbait]

It was on this board or the usenet group alt.clearing.technology where Alan Walter referred to LRH being nuts during the delivery of the class 8 course.

After hearing of the reversal of basic scio philosophy and tech during the course I believe ACW was correct in his statement.

Like the paraphrase, "At lower levels we say 'What is true for you is what you have observed yourself.' On this course it is true because I say so.”

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

You just said what I've been thinking, but you were kinder than I would have been ... I was going to say (with my best pouty face on) "if I ever want some ferret faced fucker to lecture and train me on their version of spirituality, I'll ask" ........ but that would've been a bit rude wouldn't it?

In all seriousness, the most easy to be around, spiritual people I know are completely content to get on with their own lives and leave others to get on with theirs, with no apparent inclination to question everything, perform for an audience, "assist others to see things correctly", or create any kind of pecking order (with them perched firmly at the top peering down at the great unwashed and "occluded").

I have no desire to spend any time with someone who is working to a business plan that will assist him or her to achieve their goal to be recognised (finally) as some kind of spiritual advisor.

Spirituality (for me) is about a lightness of being and I choose communing with nature, quiet contemplation of my own thoughts, music and the occasional overdose of laughter to bring that about.

Call me old fashioned but I neither need nor want approval or any of the products currently on the market that utilise smoke and mirrors, tricks, whistles, bells or aggression along with thinly veiled threats of eternal damnation (from an over stimulated imagination which has possibly already sent it's owner quite mad).

In my experience, most (if not all) of the people I would call genuinely spiritual are like that. Ram Dass for example doesn't go around angrily telling other people what to do; he lives quietly in Hawaii and if you want to go and meditate with him, you can.

 

[Ted]

Isn't the entire hubbard philosophy replete with reversal?

Much certainly is. The younger Hubbard would be at complete odds with the older Hubbard--or at least the two Hubbards that are visible to the rest of us. Hard to say if the first Hubbard, the apparently more rational one, was actual or just a manipulative PR image he projected.

 

[Ted]

Another knockout punch from Karen #1 to the Church of Scientology!

Seeing (again!) Hubbard's need to force people to obey his whims is revelatory. Hubbard was all about controlling others.

I think most of us who were in didn't understand that anyone could be that selfish.

Controlling others is all about making someone GIVE UP THEIR OWN GOALS.

Thanks Karen #1!

Yes, and in this I find the reason why the pc is never asked for finding and clearing his/her own goals.

"CONTROL = INCOME"

If I control my life it is my income to do with as I please.

If Hubbard/Scientology gains and retains retains control …

 

[Gizmo]

listening to tapes ?

Quote Originally Posted by Bea Kiddo View Post
<snip>
------------
And on another note, the Flag trained Class VI's found a way to play the tapes in higher speed to get through the lectures faster. I found out about it later. I listened to them all the slow way.... yawn

Did I listen to tapes on courses at ( lots ) faster than regular speed ?

OH HELL YES !

Now, can any purist show me an LRH reference that says I have to listen to a tape at any specific speed ?

Checksheet says I have to listen to this that & the other tape, BUT, references to playing speed ? NAH.

 

[Gizmo]

Quote Karen de la Carriere

<snip>​

Carolyn Webb

<snip>​

Rick Alexander (Off Tech Lines)

<snip>​

Is Carolyn Webb the wife of Art Webb. Art, last I knew, was doing OT7 6 month checks At the Sandcastle - very nice guy !

Rick only once spoke to me & I wanted to break his jaw - I'd still like to break his jaw ! LOL !

 

[Ted]

Re: listening to tapes ?

Did I listen to tapes on courses at ( lots ) faster than regular speed ?

OH HELL YES !

Now, can any purist show me an LRH reference that says I have to listen to a tape at any specific speed ?

Checksheet says I have to listen to this that & the other tape, BUT, references to playing speed ? NAH.

Yeah, Student Hat, IIRC. Lectures give the attitude and feel for the subject that would otherwise be lost on written-word only. Listening to LRH the chipmunk would destroy that guideline.

Make of it what you will. Back in '75 I knew of BC students who were busted for doing that.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

It was on this board or the usenet group alt.clearing.technology where Alan Walter referred to LRH being nuts during the delivery of the class 8 course.

After hearing of the reversal of basic scio philosophy and tech during the course I believe ACW was correct in his statement.

Like the paraphrase, "At lower levels we say 'What is true for you is what you have observed yourself.' On this course it is true because I say so.”

I remember those days, I liked Alan even though we disagreed on about everything

Planet saved sir
Billion hitch up, so fuck off Whobbard

 

[Ted]

I remember those days, I liked Alan even though we disagreed on about everything

Planet saved sir
Billion hitch up, so fuck off Whobbard

View attachment 12611

Yes. Once-in-a-lifetime, excellent conversations, challenges, defenses of positions, and hashing things out. SuperSize Me Alan often received as good as he got even though he played being the biggest, whopper-sized cheeseburger at the dinner party. He changed as did I and others, not completely, but enough to learn and carry on with the Quest.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: listening to tapes ?

Yeah, Student Hat, IIRC. Lectures give the attitude and feel for the subject that would otherwise be lost on written-word only. Listening to LRH the chipmunk would destroy that guideline.

Make of it what you will. Back in '75 I knew of BC students who were busted for doing that.

In my 23 years in the SO, ten of them sup'ing, I somehow never even heard of the idea of anyone deliberately listening to tapes at double speed. If a student had challenged me on the idea, I would have dug up the same reference.

Paul

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Yes. Once-in-a-lifetime, excellent conversations, challenges, defenses of positions, and hashing things out. SuperSize Me Alan often received as good as he got even though he played being the biggest, whopper-sized cheeseburger at the dinner party. He changed as did I and others, not completely, but enough to learn and carry on with the Quest.

Yup that was Alan Ted and one of the reason's I liked him was he would have apreciated
that take and got a good laugh rest easy you old Cheeseburger

 

[JustSheila]

Re: listening to tapes ?

In my 23 years in the SO, ten of them sup'ing, I somehow never even heard of the idea of anyone deliberately listening to tapes at double speed. If a student had challenged me on the idea, I would have dug up the same reference.

Paul

I did it too. Student Hat, WSOT, some of the boring parts on other L Ron lectures. Sometimes got through tapes in 20 min and just read the transcripts that way. Lots of people did at PAC. We weren't nearly as proper as you guyz. Thinkin' at least a LITTLE bit outside the box!

 

[Enthetan]

Re: listening to tapes ?

Yeah, Student Hat, IIRC. Lectures give the attitude and feel for the subject that would otherwise be lost on written-word only. Listening to LRH the chipmunk would destroy that guideline.

Listening to LRH drone on for hours can also help put the student into a hypnotic state. Which might have been another reason for doing it.

 

[Ted]

Re: listening to tapes ?

Listening to LRH drone on for hours can also help put the student into a hypnotic state. Which might have been another reason for doing it.

He could be as boring as a cow pie on a hot afternoon.

 

[uncover]

Re: listening to tapes ?

In my 23 years in the SO, ten of them sup'ing, I somehow never even heard of the idea of anyone deliberately listening to tapes at double speed. If a student had challenged me on the idea, I would have dug up the same reference.

Paul

And I would have referred you first to

RANDOMITY: The three degrees of randomity consist of minus randomity, optimum randomity, and plus randomity. (Scn 0-8, p. 79)

MINUS RANDOMITY, 1. from the viewpoint of the individual, that thing which has too little motion in it for his tolerance is minus randomity. (Abil 36) 2. a good statement of minus randomity would be: things are too slow. Things are certainly slow around here, life is dull, there is nothing happening. (Abil 36)

OPTIMUM RANDOMITY, 1. from the viewpoint of the individual, something which has in it the right amount of motion or unexpectedness for his tolerance. (Scn AD) 2. the amount of unexpectedness and rapidness of motion he would be comfortable about. (Abil 36, p.6)

Afterwards I would have put the selfmade "randomity"-(= varispeed)controller out of my bag, would have plugged it in the appropriate jack of the tape machine and listened to Hubbard's vomit in the speed I liked.....

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: listening to tapes ?

Afterwards I would have put the selfmade "randomity"-(= varispeed)controller out of my bag, would have plugged it in the appropriate jack of the tape machine and listened to Hubbard's vomit in the speed I liked.....

I might have (quietly) appreciated the game, but it would have been stacked against you at the outset.

I remember a Comm Ev I was on in the 70s. The [STRIKE]poor victim[/STRIKE] interested party had been reading about "sleep learning", and developed the idea of taking the Student Hat tapes, re-recording them with himself repeating the words a few at a time, then playing them back to himself while he slept. The idea was that the information would somehow percolate into his subconscious and he would end up as a good student.

Never mind that his only motive was to become a better Scientologist! I think he got quickly declared.

Paul

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

speeding up tapes was easily done on the reel to reel players - we wrapped some paper around the spindle and it played faster - more paper, faster it went. You didn't have to make it so fast he sounded like a chipmunk on helium - just a little bit was plenty. Some high end cassette players have speed adjustment capability.

On the reel to reel tapes there was stuff that was edited out in the cassette versions, like him lighting a kool, from the sound of it, I think he used a zippo.

What always struck me was his personality shift - there are a few tapes with student Q&A at the end of them. He would be this affable guy during the lecture, then when the Q&A started he became arrogant, impatient, while fielding their questions.

Mimsey

 

[RogerB]

In '63, the speed up the tape play thing became a bit of the thing to do . . . Hubbs was sending us a tape-a-day . . .

Then word got out and there was an order to knock it off . . .

R

 

[Gizmo]

In '63, the speed up the tape play thing became a bit of the thing to do . . . Hubbs was sending us a tape-a-day . . .

Then word got out and there was an order to knock it off . . .

R

Surely not a VERBAL order

Anyway, I NEVER ( stupidly ) asked a sup if it was OK to speed up a tape.

C'mon, one HAs to have " certainty " & " knowingness " !

I yet to see even the most experience sup here on ESMB toss out an appropriate reference for tape speed.

One can have the OPINION that listening is a difference in experience than reading - true, but a 'better' experience ?

Back through time long before tapes & all that it seems people read books & "got" it. Think Science. Think Philosophy. Think math.

Oh, then there is that thing : " Reading doesn't teach - experience teaches ". That is part of the reason scientology is such a huge failure.

But, anyway, I " fast flowed " my tapes, didn't get caught & got through my internships & audited in various HGCs. Is having a span as an auditor of auditing 4,000 hours without a cram at least decent ?