Kate Ceberano denies aliens in Scn
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uniquemand
Unbeliever
There are no aliens in scientology. I know this, because I was in scientology. Trust me, I was looking for aliens. There were none.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Excepting yourself, of course. 
Clueless Morgan
Patron with Honors
I personally don't get the masquerade around aliens myself - every religion has its strange beliefs. I mean, how does this sound:
Christianity: The son of a carpenter who lived about 2000 years ago is the son of God and came back from the dead after he was hanged on a cross. This was shortly after he used his miraculous powers to do enormous good in the world, such as turning water into booze at a pal's wedding.
Islam: A random person walks into a temple, smashes some glass and thus proves that he is, in fact, a prophet.
Judaism: An almighty entity created all that exists about 5000 years ago, such as the woman, which was made of only one rib of the man, meaning she was filled with a lot of hot air. They then had three sons but for some reason humanity continued to exist without them having to have incest or any more children.
Buddhism: An Indian royal walked through a city, gave up eating and consequently became so wise he didnt need a body anymore.
Just goes to prove every religion has its wacky stories.
And to be frank, I find aliens a lot more realistic than 6-legged, 6-armed, 6-eyed, 6-winged beings with a blood-curdling voice, otherwise known as biblical seraphim.
Christianity: The son of a carpenter who lived about 2000 years ago is the son of God and came back from the dead after he was hanged on a cross. This was shortly after he used his miraculous powers to do enormous good in the world, such as turning water into booze at a pal's wedding.
Islam: A random person walks into a temple, smashes some glass and thus proves that he is, in fact, a prophet.
Judaism: An almighty entity created all that exists about 5000 years ago, such as the woman, which was made of only one rib of the man, meaning she was filled with a lot of hot air. They then had three sons but for some reason humanity continued to exist without them having to have incest or any more children.
Buddhism: An Indian royal walked through a city, gave up eating and consequently became so wise he didnt need a body anymore.
Just goes to prove every religion has its wacky stories.
And to be frank, I find aliens a lot more realistic than 6-legged, 6-armed, 6-eyed, 6-winged beings with a blood-curdling voice, otherwise known as biblical seraphim.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Because, rightly or wrongly, Scn posits the idea that certain things should be revealed on/after certain other events. This is not a concept unique to Scn, by any means.
Having said that, I will say that having the Xenu stuff all over the net hasn't hurt anybody but that IS the reason for confidentiality. At least, it's the "tech" reason. There are, of course, indications that since a lot of this is about the insane amount of money they charge for OT levels, that "confidentiality" is also a control mechanism.
Having said that, I will say that having the Xenu stuff all over the net hasn't hurt anybody but that IS the reason for confidentiality. At least, it's the "tech" reason. There are, of course, indications that since a lot of this is about the insane amount of money they charge for OT levels, that "confidentiality" is also a control mechanism.
guanoloco
As-Wased
"Never use lies in PR" is what Hubbard called "PR of PR," or "nicey nicey PR."
It's that part of Scientology PR tech, placed on display, that shrouds the rest (less visible) part of Scientology PR tech.
"Statements one makes can be curved. 'She had a birthday party', becomes 'The delinquents inner circle gathered yesterday for a sex orgy and pretended to the police that it was a birthday party. No one was jailed'."
L. Ron Hubbard, 'PR Series 18'.
"The only safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of hate against the enemy... this means standard wartime propaganda is what one is doing... Know the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. That's the enemy. What they love. That's you."
L. Ron Hubbard, 'Battle Tactics'.
The overt/covert nature of Scientology: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=392666&postcount=42
'Scientology PR tech' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1911&highlight=scientology+tech
L. Ron Hubbard, on "inventing facts," from an April 1955 'HCOB':
"A datum is an invention which has become agreed upon and solidified... When it is thoroughly agreed upon it becomes, then, a truth.
"The word 'lie' is simply 'an invention with a bad connotation'... Thus society frowns upon the invention of facts."
Another notable quote, this from the loose-lipped 'PDC' lectures, "It's a trap not being able to prevaricate."
And then there's the old reliable, 'TR-L', the Training Routine for Lying.
And, of course, there's the first half of the Fair Game Law, "Trick and lie to."
And then there's Scientology's multi-layered PR Tech, which, of course, per the pattern, dishonestly announces its own honesty while, further in, instructs on how to manipulate, and further in still, instructs on how to mislead and lie. (Sneaky.)
These things are as much a part of subject as the "auditing comm cycle," and discharging tension by finding "earlier similars" (wording is Korzybski's), and these ingredients, along with others, combine - per the founder's design - making Scientology.
In Scientology, lying is only supposed to flow downward, with Hubbard and the hierarchy free to lie to Scientologists, but Scientologists expected to obey, and to open their minds completely to inspection by the organization.
It shouldn't be surprising that a 'Good Scientologist' is willing to lie to those he sees as below him: the "DBs," "SPs," and the "Wogs."
It's quite a system: an 'applied philosophy' that make liars out of good people, who - themselves - have been lied to.
The first step to unraveling this mess is to describe it.
This is a very good write up, Veda.
Like so many things this illustrates the composite social veneer tone of the entity and then the actual tone of the "thetan", in this case as in so many presumably Hubbard's tone.
I tried to find examples but it's too daunting to pour through gobs and volumes of references.
The ones I was looking for were the high-toned altruistic gloss of the 2D book where the husband just continues to purchase the ruined fence gates that the wife backs over without chastising or criticizing compared to the PL reference where the Disem Sec or letter reg or something just smashed their 5th typewriter or something - it's an entirely different stance taken. In the PL the continued damage is "known", the result of R/Ses and suppressive = deep-sixed with guns.
The other was the comment that aberrative personalities hoard cash to never be spent - contrasted with virtually all finance PLs where reserves are hoarded to never be spent.
If you know these references share 'em.
Veda
Sponsor
If you've read the complete CC - OT 3 materials, which I doubt, since the complete materials are not easily available on the Net, the first thing you'd notice is that these are not just strange beliefs but intimate mental procedures done over a long period of time - add NOTs to that and the time becomes many years, a decade or more.
Comparing Scientology to "other religions" is a bogus argument, IMO.
Free to shine
Shiny & Free
Kate is a 3rd generation scientologist and has been raised from birth with many restrictions of viewpoint. It is normal to "not know" and avoid entheta and she also will know that to disagree or violate the 'confidential stuff' in any way will threaten the very fabric of her family life. You grow up between a rock and a hard place and it takes tremendous courage to break away from that kind of extended family scientology situation. She is a lovely lady at heart and I really hope that one day she will be able to taste the freedom of a normal life.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Agreed. 
Outethicsofficer
Silver Meritorious Patron
Nicely put Free. I agree, I recall her in days long since gone when she had cause to visit the AO in ANZO, she was delightful.
James
Free to shine
Shiny & Free
She is a delightful person, I knew her in days gone by.
It is so, so difficult for any 'generational' scientologist and 100 times harder for someone in the public eye. Can you imagine what it's like to have grandparents, parents, siblings, spouse, friends and support system and goodness knows who else all part of the scio fabric of your whole life? There is no wiggle room at all! To break free of that - presuming one is courageous enough to go seek alternative views - is a huge thing. I personally think she has that courage, though it may take having some other members of the family wake up as well.
Kate, if you ever get to read this - there are people who will help! Your career would not suffer, in fact it would probably take off when the stigma of scientology is removed.
Sekh
Patron with Honors
The thing is, if you ask a Christian if he believes in this carpenter-turned-God-story, he says: "sure, it's the truth, my Bible says so!"Same thing with the other religions, they have their wacky creeds in the eyes of non-believers, but they don't hide them.
Scientology does. If you walk into a Scilon-church and ask about Xenu, or aliens, they kick you out (after selling you a book).
That doesn't happen when you enter a Christian church and ask if they believe in Jesus. Well, they might try to sell you a book, but you won't be kicked out.
Personally I don't care if people believe in Xenu. The beef I have with Co$ is about the way the organization treats its members. The Fair Game, the SP's, the Disconnections, the coerced Abortions, the Moneygrabbing, The RPF, the forced labour etcetera. And the lying, all the lying.
If CoS was just some wacky flying saucer cult, I wouldn't waste my precious time on it. Unfortunately it is something much more dangerous. Scientology HURTS people! That's what the protesting is about.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Same thing with the other religions, they have their wacky creeds in the eyes of non-believers, but they don't hide them.
Scientology does. If you walk into a Scilon-church and ask about Xenu, or aliens, they kick you out (after selling you a book).
That doesn't happen when you enter a Christian church and ask if they believe in Jesus. Well, they might try to sell you a book, but you won't be kicked out.
Personally I don't care if people believe in Xenu. The beef I have with Co$ is about the way the organization treats its members. The Fair Game, the SP's, the Disconnections, the coerced Abortions, the Moneygrabbing, The RPF, the forced labour etcetera. And the lying, all the lying.
If CoS was just some wacky flying saucer cult, I wouldn't waste my precious time on it. Unfortunately it is something much more dangerous. Scientology HURTS people! That's what the protesting is about.
Well, there are a couple of things you may not know about.
1) not everyone in CofS knows anything about Xenu. That's not til OTIII. So if you walk into an Org and ask about Xenu, at least half the people there won't know what you're talking about, if not more.
2) No one asks them about Xenu unless the person is actually trying to bait them. I used to be in CofS, and was on a critical forum somewhat like this one (but usenet) and people used to just scream Xenu at me and try to make me say it. I did, in fact, go ahead and discuss it but believe me, those people weren't trying to discuss anything. So if someone gets tossed out of a CofS for bringing up Xenu, well, my sympathies aren't with that person.
3) A number of other modalities (non Scn) have the theory that one learns about certain things before learning about other things. The later things are often considered forbidden. There're mystical traditions like that.
Having said that, I have not, myself, seen any problem or detriment to anyone with the Xenu stuff being all over the net. So I'm not in agreement with Scn on that.
Veda
Sponsor
In the year 2011, those doing - not just reading snippets on the Net, but seriously, as Scientologists, doing - Hubbard's psychologically manipulative/hypnotic suggestion-laced confidential upper levels are more likely to be affected in a way, from which they will never recover, than those who did these levels, pre-Internet. There's so much information available nowadays, that those who are still vulnerable are likely to be less resilient and less intelligent that their predecessors. So, the potential for long term harm is greater.
The issue is not really Xenu, or universal history, or far out space opera, etc.; the issue is an elaborate bait-and-switch mind-game that begins with, mainly, asking and ends with, mainly, telling.
It's a process, not just a story. It's mind f__k wrapped in a seemingly benign counseling format.
Link to a thread that should contain a still functioning link to the OT levels: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=6528
Mmmm... I can't get any of these links to work at this time, but what is called "Tech volume 14" has most of the OT level materials, and there's a functioning link to it somewhere. An examination of the full materials (apart from the Scientology trance), from Clearing Course materials onward, can be revealing, especially to those who did these levels years ago and have not looked at them since.
The issue is not really Xenu, or universal history, or far out space opera, etc.; the issue is an elaborate bait-and-switch mind-game that begins with, mainly, asking and ends with, mainly, telling.
It's a process, not just a story. It's mind f__k wrapped in a seemingly benign counseling format.
Link to a thread that should contain a still functioning link to the OT levels: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=6528
Mmmm... I can't get any of these links to work at this time, but what is called "Tech volume 14" has most of the OT level materials, and there's a functioning link to it somewhere. An examination of the full materials (apart from the Scientology trance), from Clearing Course materials onward, can be revealing, especially to those who did these levels years ago and have not looked at them since.
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Sekh
Patron with Honors
@VoltairesChild;
I know Xenu isn't common knowledge before OT 3, so maybe my example of mentioning the space opera at the local Org was not well chosen. What I only meant to say is this: Other faiths don't hide their basic dogma's from the interested, even when there are "mysteries of the faith" that beginners will not hear about straight away. No Christian denies the authority of the Bible, every Muslim will agree that Muhammad was the prophet of Allah. Even if the more esoteric meaning of some verses or sura's are kept to a later stage of training.
When asked a question like "What is it that a Scientologist believes in?" an interested newcomer will not get a straight answer. Just a personality test and a book to buy, and some great success stories about personal improvements and all the good that's been done for society. As an example, look at the new promo they made after the New York Times interview.
It boasts about all the good Scientology does but doesn't give a clue about what Scientologists believe.
On the official CoS-site interested public is invited to come to the local Orgs, to see for themselves what Scientology is about. But you don't get any information when you do so. That's what bothers me about the whole thing.
No need to put the deepest mysteries out in public, but some basic tenets would be nice. It would, at least, make the whole "church" thing more palatable for outsiders.
Apart from that, I presume Kate Ceberano is higher up than OT3. If so, she knows about the space opera, and still she blatantly denies its existence.
The lying, that's my most important objection. Specially when it comes from a group that always talks about ethics.
Sekh
I know Xenu isn't common knowledge before OT 3, so maybe my example of mentioning the space opera at the local Org was not well chosen. What I only meant to say is this: Other faiths don't hide their basic dogma's from the interested, even when there are "mysteries of the faith" that beginners will not hear about straight away. No Christian denies the authority of the Bible, every Muslim will agree that Muhammad was the prophet of Allah. Even if the more esoteric meaning of some verses or sura's are kept to a later stage of training.
When asked a question like "What is it that a Scientologist believes in?" an interested newcomer will not get a straight answer. Just a personality test and a book to buy, and some great success stories about personal improvements and all the good that's been done for society. As an example, look at the new promo they made after the New York Times interview.
It boasts about all the good Scientology does but doesn't give a clue about what Scientologists believe.
On the official CoS-site interested public is invited to come to the local Orgs, to see for themselves what Scientology is about. But you don't get any information when you do so. That's what bothers me about the whole thing.
No need to put the deepest mysteries out in public, but some basic tenets would be nice. It would, at least, make the whole "church" thing more palatable for outsiders.
Apart from that, I presume Kate Ceberano is higher up than OT3. If so, she knows about the space opera, and still she blatantly denies its existence.
The lying, that's my most important objection. Specially when it comes from a group that always talks about ethics.
Sekh
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Yes, there's no question about that. She lied.
Happy Days
Silver Meritorious Patron
Or was it ... an acceptable truth and keeping her TR's in
Cause how could a celebrity say they had a 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' to their public.... only Richard Dreyfus, loved that movie too.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
LOL. If you wish. Perhaps I misspoke, I'll explain below.Or was it ... an acceptable truth and keeping her TR's in
Cause how could a celebrity say they had a 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' to their public.... only Richard Dreyfus, loved that movie too.
The question asked left plenty of wriggle room I guess but I'm quite sure that both Kate and Lee know that saying "I never saw/heard of that in my 3 generations in scientology" (or whatever it was she said) knew she was altering the truth as most people would perceive it.
There is one way for a scientologist to truthfully deny the "alien connection". People see them doing this Jedi mind-trick all the time without realising what they're doing or how they're doing it.
[scientology mindset] When it comes down to it; we're all just Thetans, ye and me. Marcabians aren't "aliens". Sure, they're kinda weird but underneath all that "Control Your Sector" fanaticism, they're Thetans just like us. The Fifth Invader Force could be thought of as "Dudes With 'tudes" but if you can bear to look beneath that crabby exterior, you'll see that they're Thetans just like us. No Thetan is any more alien than another, some act kinda weird but we're all Thetans and, as every scientologist knows, scientology can get any Thetan to straighten up and fly right! [/scientology mindset]
When you think like that, it ain't lying (except, perhaps, to yourself).
Happy Days
Silver Meritorious Patron
LOL yep... I can see it now. And we are all basically good, we just haven't found the basic on the chain, so lying is OK
And we are basically alien cause we trying to find out 'Who we really are' Thanks Panda, I'll sleep better at night now... but does Kate
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