Katie Holmes Finally Dumps Tom Cruise (and hopefully Scientology)

[Gadfly]

Tom bragged on his viral video that he doesn't hesitate to "...ruthlessly slam in his own ethics!"

Well, in the world of Scientology we know what it it means to "slam in your ethics".

What?

To put Scientology as the TOP concern, to "flow power to LRH & Scientology", and to support Scientology above all other concerns.

To the uninitiated, it sounds good or right to "put in your ethics". That might apply to a person with an inherent sense of right and wrong, and who connects with his fellow Man. But, the Scientologist has such a strange, distorted and weirdly-valued concept of "ethics". As any of us know who have been involved with Scientology, Hubbard set up ethics & justice in a way that ALWAYS considers Scientology as the TOP CONCERN. THAT is deeply woven into the concept of "Scientology ethics".

All right and wrong, all good and bad, and even any sense of decency in Scientology is measured against "does this action hinder or help Scientology"?

That the mindless Scientology drones fail to see that truly amazes me. :confused2:

 

[Lulu Belle]

Looks like they are OT in Footbulletology?? Well worth clicking...

"However, the best part about this flub by the tabs is that it elicited a response from the church itself. Scientology huffed and puffed, saying that Suri isn't eligible for the Sea Org because the church doesn't take anyone for the hardcore, elite unit under the age of 16.

Wow, is that a big fat lie.

How do we know that? Well, just take a look at this promotional flier that the church itself mails out..."

oh good lord.

Do you have any idea how many ex-SO there are out there who were recruited into the SO younger than 16? Some way younger than 16?

Who will see this and get pissed off at the lie and might...counter it?

The sheer stupidity never stops.

 

[LA SCN]

The startling similarity of this scenario and that of a battered wife fleeing an abusive husband is not lost on millions of people.

What a train wreck. For Cruise and COS.

Oh hell yeah!

The 1991 movie SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY probably best portrays her and his mindsets - the whacko controlling husband and the omg I've got to get away from him carefully planning wife.

LOTS of folks know the story and Tom has already testified against himself in the media spectacularly with multiple foot and head bullets.

Hell, maybe it was Katie that leaked the famous Cruise video whose removal invoked the wrath of anonymous!

Would that not be a total hoot!!

 

[religionblogger]

Rather sad that TC was targeted at the height of his career when a star is most vulnerable and searching for greater meaning in life. One thing I think is significant is that when TC converted over 20 years ago the Internet was not around. He did not have access to all the damning material about LRH. Now he does. One wonders the psychological lengths he is going through to ignore all of it.

 

[LA SCN]

Rather sad that TC was targeted at the height of his career when a star is most vulnerable and searching for greater meaning in life. One thing I think is significant is that when TC converted over 20 years ago the Internet was not around. He did not have access to all the damning material about LRH. Now he does. One wonders the psychological lengths he is going through to ignore all of it.

Amen brother and welcome aboard!

If I may be so bold as to ask, what brought you to join with us here at ESMB?

Great minds think alike?

 

[olska]

Well, in the world of Scientology we know what it it means to "slam in your ethics".

What?

To put Scientology as the TOP concern, to "flow power to LRH & Scientology", and to support Scientology above all other concerns.

To the uninitiated, it sounds good or right to "put in your ethics". That might apply to a person with an inherent sense of right and wrong, and who connects with his fellow Man. But, the Scientologist has such a strange, distorted and weirdly-valued concept of "ethics". As any of us know who have been involved with Scientology, Hubbard set up ethics & justice in a way that ALWAYS considers Scientology as the TOP CONCERN. THAT is deeply woven into the concept of "Scientology ethics".

All right and wrong, all good and bad, and even any sense of decency in Scientology is measured against "does this action hinder or help Scientology"?

That the mindless Scientology drones fail to see that truly amazes me. :confused2:

That's actually stated quite plainly in the scientology materials.

There are lots of words in the scientolgoy materials about the "philosophy" of ethics, but when it comes right down to the application of scientolgoy "ethics tech," it's purpose is:

"The purpose of ethics is to remove counter intentions from the environment. And having accomplished that the purpose becomes to remove other intentionedness from the environment. (HCOPL 18 Jun 68)."

Definition #4 from Modern Management Technology Defined, by L.Ron Hubbard.

When "scientology ethics" just happens to align with normal (non scientolgoist) people's ideas about goodness, morality, and "right"ness, it's pure coincidence, nothing more. what is "right" and "wrong" within scientology, is as defined above, by the flounder hisself.

 

[elwood]

I wonder how long Tom will keep "Kiss Me Kate" painted on his P-51?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Has Katie said ANYWHERE that she is leaving Scientology? Or have we, and every tabloid on the planet just jumped to the obvious conclusion?

What if Katie is perfectly happy to remain in Scientology, she just couldn't hack being with Tom anymore?

If this is the case, I'd be surprised but it wouldn't be the first time a couple of Scientologists split up.

If it's how we all think it is, and that Katie left Tom *because* of Scientology, it will depend on how she behaves as to whether Suri is even ALLOWED in the church.

In my case, my daughter is NEVER allowed to be on service lines while she is still connected to me. Even though her father (my Ex) is still a Scio. If he took her into the Org for service, she'd be out A - J and denied service because I'm an SP.

If Katie is declared an SP (publicly or not), then that will rule Suri out until she is at least 18.

I wonder if that's the guilt trip Tom played on Nicole & why she tends to never be seen with her older kids? Did he tell her that she has to disconnect from her kids to allow them to remain in their religion?

Katie's beng a Scn'ist always seemed grudging. Never saw her publicly talking about some cool course she dd or spouting propaganda like Jenna Elfman, Kirstie Alley or Tom Cruise.

Her heart never seemed to be in it. Seemed similar with Nicole.

I think maybe that's something people are picking up on.

 

[LA SCN]

oh good lord.

Do you have any idea how many ex-SO there are out there who were recruited into the SO younger than 16? Some way younger than 16?

Who will see this and get pissed off at the lie and might...counter it?

The sheer stupidity never stops.

And the beat goes on!

It goes like this:

Problem: The Church of Scientology needs to go away.

Applicable data: Gradient Scales are necessary to the solution to any Problem.

First level of Public: All the True Believers and Indies.

Solution: Debbie Cooks email and court case.

Second level of Public: Every Human Being on Earth.

Solution: Tom Cruise / Katie Holmes divorce drama.

Product: Scientology? Are you kidding me? What - are you nuts? Hubbard? - What a whack job!! Lying S.O.B. Miscavige? - What a psycho!! Certifiable!! Scientologists? - Intervention needed ASAP!!

 

[Claire Swazey]

I'm sorry, but I'm not on board with blacklisting someone because they're a Scn'ist or a whatever, or having that factor in when deciding on nominations for Academy Awards.

It should be based on ability. Period. Even if the person was a member of the KKK, the Thugee cult of India, or was a Communist back in the 50s and 60s.

And what I'm about to say does not pertain to Lulu Belle. Lulu, this is not an attitude I would attribute to you, and so this is not meant as a swipe at you.

That being said, I've noticed a mindset here and on other critical fora that the end justifies the means re Scn or Scn'ists. I've seen people advocate disconnection and fair gaming against Scn'ists. Prior to the story coming out about Suri being targetted for SO (which, to me, would change the whole parental rights question vis a vis TC) , some people were actually in favor of disconnection between her and her Dad.

I saw a relatively mild mannered (several years ago on another forum) nice guy state he went after a step relative (who was a Scn'ist) who'd torn off a xenu.net bumper sticker from a daughter's car (not a cool thing to do, granted) with a vengeance- making the guy lose his livelihood- and I didn't see one person censure this. That's fair game stuff

Some of this sort of thing pops up every now and again on forums and it seems to me that some critics believe and would do similar things to the cult that they are so angry about for its fair gaming, tamping of freedom of speech, disconnection and so forth.

Supporting a black list based on someone's religious affiliation or beliefs is wrong.

I cannot support that. I never will support that.

In TC's case, I only support the possibility of his not being allowed access to Suri if it's true that he'd send her to the SO. Because that's child abuse. I don't care what berthing or courses or supposed higher status the cult may've promised-- sending any child to any SO venue or to anything remotely like it is innately wrong and abusive.

Were it not for that, I'd be like, I hope he gets to see her every goddamn day.

 

[Operating DB]

I called a close friend of mine, Billy Blowdown, who is OT VIII and asked him to meet me for a session. Then I put him on a meter and ran an L&N question.

WHY ARE NON-IDEAL THINGS HAPPENING
TO THE IDEAL OT, TOM CRUISE?​

I haven't heard or read about any things. x

That sounds like entheta, knock it off. x

The reason Tom's stats are downstat is because he is an
upstat. Evil people attack upstats and crash their stats. So, the
so the fact that he is downstat proves that he is upstat. LFBD F/N Item Indicated.​

I just realized how sublimely Orwellian the terms DOWNSTAT and UPSTAT are.

HH, you got that cognitive dissonance concept down pat!

 

[TG1]

Claire,

I'm usually on your side of argments about an individual's right to believe anything they want, whether I agree with their beliefs or not.

However, in the instance you described above about a guy who sort of lost it (yes, I realize 'losing it' can range from mild irritation to mass murder due to temporary insanity), I can see why readers on an ex-Scientology board would be fairly supportive of the guy.

There are beliefs. And there are behaviors. And some beliefs DO lead some believers to act out some behaviors.

It's a matter of degrees -- for both xenophobia and tolerance.

Stated another way, there are no absolutes. Xenophobia is not always wrong. And tolerance is not always right.

TG1

 

[olska]

The hits just keep on coming!

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainme...ant-scientologists-schooling-suri-cruise.html

Katie Holmes reportedly didn’t want Scientologists schooling Suri Cruise

By Bill Zwecker July 3, 2012 8:58PM

Updated: July 4, 2012 2:22AM

There are several key issues that led to the collapse of Katie Holmes’ five-year marriage to Tom Cruise — a breakup I’ve confirmed has been brewing for at least a solid year.

Beyond feeling personally suffocated in what a close Holmes friend tells me was a “claustrophobic” relationship with Cruise, the actress was deeply concerned about her husband’s commitment to Scientology — especially as it related to the education of his children.

According to that friend, who worked with Holmes on “Dawson’s Creek,” the actress “was not at all impressed with the way Tom’s older children Isabella and Connor were taught by the Scientolgists’ programs. She felt they did not have the kind of grasp of basic information like kids would get in more traditional schools — either public or private.

“Katie was really surprised by their lack of knowledge about the world in general … current affairs, classic literature, science, other religions or foreign languages,” said the source. “That certainly is not what she wants for Suri.”

† While it’s been noted that Holmes had long planned her exit from the marriage, it appears she depended on a very small circle of longtime friends to assist her — also aided by one or two members of her immediate family. Apparently, her lack of independence from Cruise led Holmes to quietly rent a New York apartment in her name alone and finalize those divorce plans.

† According to a second source — a professional associate of Holmes who has worked with her on several recent films — she also was very unhappy about Cruise’s apparent lack of interest in her career. While he demanded she “always be there for him and his movies, he seemed to care less about hers — and even made fun of some of them, including the proposed ‘Dawson’s Creek’ reunion movie Katie really wanted to do.

“Tom thought it was a dumb idea, and would remind Katie’s fans of her past, not her present or future.”

Apparently, he compared the idea to what he considered washed-up stars doing the remake of “Dallas.”

This (bolded) rings true, for me, as it aligns with what I've observed in the education of children within scientology world -- it's all about Hubbard's work, any other kind of education -- particularly that which encourages critical thinking -- is devalued. Thus you get a generation/ group of people who think Hubbard was some kind of genius, but who are quite ignorant of the world around them.

(some of them show up here...)

Connor and Isabella are immersed in scientology-world, along with the children of other scio "celebrities": Tommy Davis, Beck, Lisa Marie Presley, (now out, yay!), Juliette Lewis, the young Ribisi kids, are some of the more well-known names.

And celebrity kids DO join the Sea Org -- Tommy Davis a prime example!

Regarding Katie's career, who knows... she's a pretty girl who had a promising start as a television actress, might have snagged an Emmy along the way, I don't see her up there with the Oscar-winners, and I was not impressed with her foray into the fashion world... but whadda I know...

What we DO know is that Cruise made arrogant and deprecating remarks, on national tv, about his friend Brooke Shield's career, and that he apparently tried to remake Katie into some image he dreamed up, with the bobbed hair, the perfect (and strange) makeup, weird clothes, changing her name to "Kate", etc.

Now she's grown her hair out and dropped the makeup and in casual clothes she looks radiant and happy and genuinely pretty again. That alone speaks volumes.

Also I agree with previous comments that renting the new apartment, moving while TC was gone, firing the staff, and announcing the divorce as she did are all actions that align with someone trying to escape an abusive situation -- not likely physical abuse (though who knows?) but more likely just very tight control. She no doubt has family and friends helping her pull this off.

 

[Lulu Belle]

And what I'm about to say does not pertain to Lulu Belle. Lulu, this is not an attitude I would attribute to you, and so this is not meant as a swipe at you.

That being said, I've noticed a mindset here and on other critical fora that the end justifies the means re Scn or Scn'ists. I've seen people advocate disconnection and fair gaming against Scn'ists. Prior to the story coming out about Suri being targetted for SO (which, to me, would change the whole parental rights question vis a vis TC) , some people were actually in favor of disconnection between her and her Dad.

.....

In TC's case, I only support the possibility of his not being allowed access to Suri if it's true that he'd send her to the SO. Because that's child abuse. I don't care what berthing or courses or supposed higher status the cult may've promised-- sending any child to any SO venue or to anything remotely like it is innately wrong and abusive.

Were it not for that, I'd be like, I hope he gets to see her every goddamn day.

First of all, I wasn't offended at all by your post. I liked it, actually, and agreed with it mostly.

At least in theory.

The reality of the Tom/Katie/Suri situation, unfortunately, may be a little more complicated.

If Tom was a somewhat normal human being who was willing to compromise, and if he didn't belong to a religion who steamrolled everyone they perceived as thwarting their goals, I would say, no problem.

But if he were that guy, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

Cruise and Kidman had "joint custody". At some point the kids were just basically locked down with Cruise, and that was that. He raised them as Scientologists, and as Scientolgists, they were at some point going to have to totally or almost totally disconnect from Kidman. It's hard to really know what went on, but the impression is she really didn't see them for years.

Katie Holmes more than anyone knows what went on there. She lived it. She knows Tom had the power to take those kids, raise them, and keep them away from his ex-wife. She was the one who wound up playing substitute mom to them.

Holmes knows Cruise is a control freak. She knows he unwaveringly thinks he is always right.

Maybe some of you are fortunate enough to have never had someone like that in your life. I wasn't. I get where she's coming from.

There is no compromising with someone like that. Not to even bring in the crazy cult he belongs to, the head of which is sinister and vindictive evil son of a bitch who wants her head on a platter.

How do you think she's going to feel handing her daughter over to Cruise, even for a "visit"? Every time she does that she's going to worry that she will never see her again.

Like I said. I really get what it's like from the kid's side, to not have a father. Bought the t-shirt.

But...it's a tough call.

 

[Moosejewels]

I agree, but all the same, all the controlling shit she had to live with and her worry about her child- if that SO story is for real (which I think it probably is)- kinda makes me wanna give her a pass.

Of course you're right. The compassionate side of me was shut down for awhile.
More than one of my old Scio friends have adult children who were brought up in the choorch and are now firmly ensconced on staff far away from their parent's influence. Sad.

 

[olska]

I'm sorry, but I'm not on board with blacklisting someone because they're a Scn'ist or a whatever, or having that factor in when deciding on nominations for Academy Awards.

It should be based on ability. Period.

Oh, and wouldn't that be nice! I'm sure there are many, many writers, directors, producers, and performers who've been passed over in the past who totally agree with you... please relay your sentiments to the voting members of the Academy as I'm sure they never thought of that.

That being said, I've noticed a mindset here and on other critical fora that the end justifies the means re Scn or Scn'ists. I've seen people advocate disconnection and fair gaming against Scn'ists. Prior to the story coming out about Suri being targetted for SO (which, to me, would change the whole parental rights question vis a vis TC) , some people were actually in favor of disconnection between her and her Dad.
...
In TC's case, I only support the possibility of his not being allowed access to Suri if it's true that he'd send her to the SO. Because that's child abuse. I don't care what berthing or courses or supposed higher status the cult may've promised-- sending any child to any SO venue or to anything remotely like it is innately wrong and abusive.

Were it not for that, I'd be like, I hope he gets to see her every goddamn day.

Point #1: you never miss a chance to slam other (unnamed) members of this forum with your unspecific accusations about their behavior and their mindset -- why is that? One might think you were on a mission to run some vague guilt trip on people and portray the members here in a bad light.

Point #2: one parent being awarded "sole and residential custody" does NOT mean that the other parent is "disconnected" from the child -- never gets to see the child, cannot have any communication with the child -- as is the case in scientology disconnection.

Such an award can include very liberal communication and visitation rights. Or not, depending on the circumstances, and depending on what the judge deems to be in best interest of the child.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Speaking of which, it occurred to me that Katie might know about Shelley's fate. That would be a fucking disaster for the cult.....

Why ? Their past is littered with dead bodies strewn here and there.

Quentin was killed. LRH was killed. Is Shelly even alive ?

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I wonder if that's the guilt trip Tom played on Nicole & why she tends to never be seen with her older kids? Did he tell her that she has to disconnect from her kids to allow them to remain in their religion?

Emma - Conner and Isabella are adopted children. Wouldn't the bond between Nic and them be easier broken than the bond between her and her blood children? I have never adopted, and so I have no idea if that plays a part in their post divorce lives.

Mimsey

 

[NoName]

Point #1: you never miss a chance to slam other (unnamed) members of this forum with your unspecific accusations about their behavior and their mindset -- why is that? One might think you were on a mission to run some vague guilt trip on people and portray the members here in a bad light.

WTF? There were a few people who were saying that TC should have zero contact with Suri earlier in this thread. So Clare's point was more or less relevant to this discussion. I personally happen to agree with the point that she was making about parental rights, at least in the abbstract, but think that it would be difficult in the TC situation given the omnipresent PTS/SP tech.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

There is no real love within scientology. None. Only "tools" to control and manipulate, masked beneath fake smiles and myriads of other bullshit.

Hi Sallydance, I think the singlemost love destroying concept in Scientology is the concept that you have lived forever and have had many loves and lives. And will have an infinity of them in the future. Thus the current life is reduced to zero against the infinity of the past and future - or 808 in Scio speak.

Mimsey