Katie Holmes Finally Dumps Tom Cruise (and hopefully Scientology)

[Lone Star]

Tom Cruise Didn't Pay Katie Lump Sum in Divorce: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/13/tom-cruise-katie-holmes-divorce-settlement-no-lump-sum/

I think from now I'm gonna play the "opposite game". I believe the opposite of whatever Tom and Scientology says to be true. In this case that means Tom payed Katie at least $50 million

As much as I am on Katie's side, I have no problem with her not getting a lump sum. She has the means to make a comfortable living on her own.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

"that she - while no genius herself"
WTF? I call bullshit.
I don't see anything in katie Holmes' behavior that suggests she is anything less than capable and courageous. She outwitted Mission-fucking-Impossible, man. Assigning that courage and resourcefulness to her Dad isn't justified by anything but your own preconceptions.

Gotta agree with Kimball Kinnison here - Katie has shown she is both shrewd and smart and able t pull off a very good plan with immense discipline.

What I find very interesting is that she made a very smart estimate - that the CofS and TC would cave rather than allow a shitstorm to continue for months. And she had the courage to go ahead and face the consequences if it turned out she had misestimated. And we, of all people, have a greater understanding of what those consequences could have been.

Now - I am merely idly speculating here - I can understand Katie being able to correctly estimate that Cruise is a pussy and would not stand, I am not so sure she would have known DM well enough to estimate how cowardly he actually is (and he is).

INteresting.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Now - I am merely idly speculating here - I can understand Katie being able to correctly estimate that Cruise is a pussy and would not stand, I am not so sure she would have known DM well enough to estimate how cowardly he actually is (and he is).

Well, we don't know what she knows. Don't forget, she knew DM personally. She would probably have a better understanding of certain things than we do.

And I believe your assessment, Mick, of her being helped by someone very much "in the know" is correct. I don't know if it was someone who worked with her directly or with her dad, but there definitely was at least someone helping to choreograph this whole thing. I read it somewhere, but even if I hadn't, it's kind of obvious they got help.

Actually, though, I still don't know whether DM wanted TC to give in to her or not. I still think it's his professional side that forced his hand. There was just too much of other people's money to lose.

 

[Claire Swazey]

My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc. I know that he's friends with DM and, to me, that's kind of amazing- and not in a good way.

I have no idea if his marriage was arranged, if Katie was a beard, if she auditioned for the part. Some say that's what happened.

I have observed that he's overly enthusiastic & fervent (couch jumping, that truly scary pic where he's got this long black coat on and is crouching with arms open to welcome his child but has the most overdone grin on his face, the Scn video he did, etc).

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

No. "Since you can be any religion and be a scientologist", that isn't actually against church rules.

It certainly lends itself to interpretation however.


Mark A. Baker

You know Scientology doesn't follow the same jurisprudence as the rest of society.

It doesn't matter how it can be argued in a court of law.

To Scientology, she is against Scientology (even if she really isn't)

An SP in Scientologyused to be someone that is against the Church of Scientology.

Now an SP is someone the Church of Scientology is against.

In there eyes she is now an SP and they will find all the anti-social characteristics in her and evey action of hers as anti-Scientology.

In other word, she's one of us now.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings.

He didn't seem to give a shit about Nicole Kidman's feelings when he dumped her out of the blue.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc. I know that he's friends with DM and, to me, that's kind of amazing- and not in a good way.

I have no idea if his marriage was arranged, if Katie was a beard, if she auditioned for the part. Some say that's what happened.

I have observed that he's overly enthusiastic & fervent (couch jumping, that truly scary pic where he's got this long black coat on and is crouching with arms open to welcome his child but has the most overdone grin on his face, the Scn video he did, etc).

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings.

Don't worry, he'll have been into session by now and Katie will be a distant memory already.

Scientologist's don't like 'feelings' ... and they have to be 'handled' ASAP so they can get back to being 'at cause' ...

 

[degraded being]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc. I know that he's friends with DM and, to me, that's kind of amazing- and not in a good way.

I have no idea if his marriage was arranged, if Katie was a beard, if she auditioned for the part. Some say that's what happened.

I have observed that he's overly enthusiastic & fervent (couch jumping, that truly scary pic where he's got this long black coat on and is crouching with arms open to welcome his child but has the most overdone grin on his face, the Scn video he did, etc).

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings.

There are a lot of culties who have disconnected from their families, including children. They may be devastated too, but not devastated enough to reconnect.
And Tom's ex [STRIKE]wife[/STRIKE] wives and child may be human too. Tom may be more devasted by them being human, than being separated. Come to think of it, he's probably very relieved now to be separated from Katie. She is an SP.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc.

And profited from it by free slave labor for his every need, as well as expensive gifts and perks.

Claire, you should really save your sympathy for someone who actually deserves it.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc. I know that he's friends with DM and, to me, that's kind of amazing- and not in a good way.
snip...

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings.

Your post has CI written all over it. Cognitive Dissonance.

You say that you "know" he's a "cultie" but then you feel "he's a human being"

He is in a cult so that he will no longer BE a human being! Thats what he is striving for. So in the same post you are saying you know what he is and then you say you know he isn't.

Pick a runway, any runway, Claire and set this plane down...

 

[olska]

Well, we don't know what she knows. Don't forget, she knew DM personally. She would probably have a better understanding of certain things than we do.

And I believe your assessment, Mick, of her being helped by someone very much "in the know" is correct. I don't know if it was someone who worked with her directly or with her dad, but there definitely was at least someone helping to choreograph this whole thing. I read it somewhere, but even if I hadn't, it's kind of obvious they got help.

Actually, though, I still don't know whether DM wanted TC to give in to her or not. I still think it's his professional side that forced his hand. There was just too much of other people's money to lose.

Katie is an educated person from an educated family, and she's not a child -- she's past 30, been around a bit -- most people in the "business" of entertainment are, I think, a bit jaded, so...

Before Cruise came along, she was something of a hottie with a promising career in television, dated some male hotties, had some experience navigating the paparrazi and the pitfalls of working in that mileu. She's probably much more able to "read" people than people who have been trained to use Hubbard's ridiculous "tone scale" to analyze and predict the behavior of other people; I would guess that even if she was all starry-eyed about Tom Cruise for awhile, she still saw through Miscavige and all the other "celebrity" scio hangers-on right away.

Cruise has good looks, charisma, charm, and a reputation for being nice and hard-working; but let's not forget he's not all that well educated -- what does he know about the "real" world? maybe not much. He was once reported to be quite surprised that there were so many homeless people in down town L.A. (they're hard to miss if you get out and about much...) Apparently his "education" consists mostly of studying Hubbard's work.

Miscavige is an uneducated high-school dropout drunk on his power as the head honcho of a weird cult; and he's short and funny looking -- definitely not someone who would be comfortable smoozing at parties in the Hollywood scene with beautiful and sharp people skilled in the art of innuendo and reparte. I would guess Miscavige craves the invitations that will never come and that behind his back, if his name is ever mentioned at all, that mention draws snickers and shudders; and that when he enters a room full of the Hollywood crowd (if he ever does), suddenly people stop conversations and find they have to visit the powder room...

(poor little boy ... that kind of rejection, always being the outsider outcast looking in hungrily at the beautiful world you'll never be part of, would be enough to drive a person into the kind of kick-the-dog rages he is rumored to visit upon his juniors in the cult.)

Katie would have had a front row seat at this drama from which she could easily and quickly dope out the true character and frustrated longings of the poor dwarf, all the while beaming her practiced actress social smiles and keeping quiet about it.

One thing we know about Katie: she is able to keep quiet, keep things to herself; she doesn't have that running-at-the-mouth disease that infects many female "celebrites."

Meanwhile, educated and sharp daddy Martin Holmes, also practiced and skilled at keeping his clients' confidences and plotting strategies to attain favorable outcomes for them, is no fool, and -- unlike the Hubbardites -- knows what the word "research" really means. He's probably been researching Cruise, Miscavige, the cult and any of its major players and history, every since his little girl got involved. Would be no surprise at all if he had contacted a few savvy ex members and picked their brains.

I find this story immensely entertaining and I hope someone, someday, writes it up as a movie script, with liberal doses of imagination and of course, the usual disclaimer that "all characters and events are fictional and any resemblance to real persons is entirely coincidental...."

Hmmmm... if you don't hear from me for awhile, you could venture a guess about what I'm busy doing....

 

[Esco]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc. I know that he's friends with DM and, to me, that's kind of amazing- and not in a good way.

I have no idea if his marriage was arranged, if Katie was a beard, if she auditioned for the part. Some say that's what happened.

I have observed that he's overly enthusiastic & fervent (couch jumping, that truly scary pic where he's got this long black coat on and is crouching with arms open to welcome his child but has the most overdone grin on his face, the Scn video he did, etc).

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings

Agreed on all counts. Lets not demonize the man too much.

I will say this however, the fact Tom Cruise now has 3 failed marriages doesnt reflect well on $cientology. I was under the impression $cientology was supposed to add value to your life, clearly thats not the case when it comes to marriage (at least in Tom's case)

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

He didn't seem to give a shit about Nicole Kidman's feelings when he dumped her out of the blue.

Lulu Belle,

I didn't say he was blameless, though. In fact, I said he was pretty blameworthy.

If you want me to write a post about Nicole's feelings, I will, but I will continue to stand behind what I wrote about TC. There really isn't anything in that post that gives him any kind of a free pass, hon.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

Your post has CI written all over it. Cognitive Dissonance.

No,.

You say that you "know" he's a "cultie" but then you feel "he's a human being"

Yah.

He is in a cult so that he will no longer BE a human being! Thats what he is striving for. So in the same post you are saying you know what he is and then you say you know he isn't.

I'm pretty sure he's still human, tho. I distinctly saw signs of aging in recent pix.

Pick a runway, any runway, Claire and set this plane down.

Pick one:

Too long a runway
Too Short a runway
Boss! De plane! De plane!

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

There are a lot of culties who have disconnected from their families, including children. They may be devastated too, but not devastated enough to reconnect.
And Tom's ex [STRIKE]wife[/STRIKE] wives and child may be human too. Tom may be more devasted by them being human, than being separated. Come to think of it, he's probably very relieved now to be separated from Katie. She is an SP.

Two wrongs only make a right when ya use da new math.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

And profited from it by free slave labor for his every need, as well as expensive gifts and perks.

Claire, you should really save your sympathy for someone who actually deserves it.

I think you need to reread my post.

 

[Claire Swazey]

In any event, I even feel bad for murderers on death row who are frightened of the death chamber- and that's with me bein' pro death penalty and all.

But I don't give them a free pass for what they did.

My post re TC mentions a lot of fucked up shit he does. And in that post I represent the fucked up shit as being fucked up. Can't say fairer than that.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

Two wrongs only make a right when ya use da new math.

well two wrongs may not make a right but three lefts will do it...

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Re: My thoughts on Tom Cruise and the divorce

I know that he's a cultie. I know that he's turned a blind eye to what's been going on in the cult and has contributed to it by threatening to beat people up, etc. I know that he's friends with DM and, to me, that's kind of amazing- and not in a good way.

I have no idea if his marriage was arranged, if Katie was a beard, if she auditioned for the part. Some say that's what happened.

I have observed that he's overly enthusiastic & fervent (couch jumping, that truly scary pic where he's got this long black coat on and is crouching with arms open to welcome his child but has the most overdone grin on his face, the Scn video he did, etc).

But, at the end of the day I feel that:

He is a human being
He loves his child
He probably has love or at least affection for Katie

And no matter what, shithead or deluded whatever- he's a human being and probably will miss his wife and child. I assume he's devastated by this.

I am not faulting Katie. But I, for one, do not intend to lose sight of TC's humanity and the fact that surely he, too, has feelings.

A nce post and a brave one too.

I feel sorry for Tom Cruise.

I feel sorry for Miscavige.

I believe they are caught in a hell--one of their own making for sure---but neverthe less a hell.

I can't stand by and say I'm happy they are miserable people.

It's a "For whom the bell tolls" type of thing.

I would like them to see the light.

I wish they were better people, although I would like that they are prevented in their present capacity from harming others.

I doubt that will happen.

But I feel it would be hypocritical to say it is wrong for them for violating people's rights and treating other people as harmfully as they do while at the same time wishing it will happen to them.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Lulu Belle]

I would guess Miscavige craves the invitations that will never come and that behind his back, if his name is ever mentioned at all, that mention draws snickers and shudders; and that when he enters a room full of the Hollywood crowd (if he ever does), suddenly people stop conversations and find they have to visit the powder room...

Olska,

First of all, fabulous post.

This point in particular really resonates with me. Even when I was still in the Sea Org, I started to suspect that the reason these Int Events existed was because of Davey's secret desire to be a Hollywood star.

The events were the way he could live out his fantasy:

Walk on stage and thousands of people applaud you.

I have always thought that his obsession with Tom Cruise was because he wanted to be Tom Cruise.

I remember a post written, I think, by Jeff Hawkins where he said that Miscavige despised Int. He would much rather stay in his swanky apartment in Hollywood.

It all kind of points to exactly what you said:

He wants to be That Guy.

And he'll never be That Guy.