Ken Urquhart

T

TheSneakster

Guest
Terril,

This is your religion:

Sharon Stainforth said:
He could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty. It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf. The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered - a mandatory attendance - we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also. It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, "Faster, Faster!". It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person's will, and making people watch. It was disgusting.

They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and start running out, it would turn a body into pulp in no time at all. I saw children locked up in the chain locker.

He had a birthday party on March 13 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had her brought out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes - she had been in there a week. She was pretty dirty - he brought her out to the party, he said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She still wasn't allowed to wash or change, so she was brought to the party and had to stay and later she was returned [to the locker]. He said he was giving her a reprieve but it was just flaunting her degradation. It had looked like things were lightening up a little, people thought maybe things were getting better, then this happened and people were shocked and it gave us a sinister chill. She was in a dress.

The above Quote taken from David Mayos' affidavit.

Sharone,

David Mayo gave affidavits in several different court cases, would you please link the one this excerpt came from? So far my diligent Internet searching has failed to turn this one up (could be I'm using the wrong search query).
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Freet43, my post was clear enough.

You wrote:



I responded by telling you that was B.S.

Why do so many FZ/Independent Scientologists want to defend Hubbard's systematic decades long implementation of this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg on his own most loyal and starry-eyed followers?

Could it be that, perhaps, that implementation worked?

What I believe Veda is this; things got progressively worse in the early 80's and many in the Freezone have used the management change over in that period as a justification for them making a reform movement. True, Scientology may have been far better before, but it was not perfect and many, including John McMasters and Alan Walters reported the bad things that did happen and walked away earlier. There's a guy in the UK who makes meters for the Freezone who left earlier than 81/2/3 because he felt things were wrong.

Jesse Prince states that Hubbard himself was responsible for Mayo's removal. The testimonies of Dede Reisdorf, Hannah Whitfield and many others should not be discounted. Veda you may have realised by now that the Freezone have trouble with accepting that the problems lie with Hubbard as this undermine's their secure belief that they left the Church because of Miscavige and out-tech. Also being 'on source' they don't wish to confront the idea that Hubbard may not have been entirely source to begin with or that some of his data came from the OTO.

Scientology is a mixture of something quite beautiful and something quite unfortunate, The FZ want to take credit for all the good and blame the bad on others, or simply excuse things away. I know because I have done it myself.

Many prominent Freezoners have displayed here a type of behaviour which I think is appalling and is nothing that I want to become. I would go as far as to say that the Freezone, bar a few individuals, is a black magic group of self sacrifice for the cause. It took me some time to fully wake up but reading another thread on ESMB where someone criticizes Terril and a handful of pro-tech people come in and mess about with that person using all sorts of black communication tactics is awful.

Scientology techniques have benefits but I would never recommend anyone ever go near the UK Freezone or the Church of Scientology. Stuff can be done at home. Hubbard made rules to prevent people from doing this but I believe we all have the power to confront our pasts as individuals with and not with others.

What all this has helped me to do is to make sure I tear up my certificates and throw them in the bin.
 
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Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sharone,

David Mayo gave affidavits in several different court cases, would you please link the one this excerpt came from? So far my diligent Internet searching has failed to turn this one up (could be I'm using the wrong search query).

I don't remember exactly which affidavit I took it from but it is here:

http://www.lermanet.com/exit/manney/BrainwashingManualParallels.pdf

This is the one:http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/bfm/interviews/mayo.htm

There are some discrepancies between the way I remember it and David Mayo. I do not remember the Reisdorf sisters or Charles Reisdorf for that matter. In fact I do not know the name of the man it happened to, but I assure you it did happen. According to Janet Reitman, the Reisdorfs did not go on the Apollo till 1971, which would be why I don't remember them.
 
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Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Would be surprised that she reads that post - appears she is not around for few months.

You favorite ''veda'' have made a post concerning this issue and put related links

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?18511-David-Mayo-s-Contribution-to-SOLO-NOT-S-is&p=537895&viewfull=1#post537895

I wasn't able to get on here for some time, then I decided I didn't want to due to freezone propagandists. However, I have never stopped reading.Will pop in occasionally, if that's alright with Emma.
 

Lure Rob & Hyde

Patron with Honors
Hello.

My name is Ken Urquhart and I am an Auditor. Here is some information about my background.

A friend of the family introduced me to scn in 1957, and it has been by far the most important element in my life. My brief scn background is this:

I did basic training the the London HASI in the late fifties and early sixties. In 1963 I started work at Saint Hill and did staff tech courses there. I worked as LRH's Household Officer, saw him every day, and he would chat to me about many different things -- including his current R6 research (which became the Clearing Course). Between 1965 and 1968 I was mostly on LRH Communicator posts at SH or World Wide. LRH called me to the ship in 1968 and soon made me his Personal Communicator. As such I was his principal executive and administrative aide (but had nothing to do with the running of the Guardian's Office, which was Mary Sue's hat). Later, he created the post of Staff Captain to take the burden of executive support.
Of course, I closely observed, and learned a very great deal from his operations but what I found most revealing and valuable were his activities as Senior C/S on the ship. Now and then he'd take the crew c/sing into his own hands. When he did that, he liked to have me sit with him. He'd tell me what he observed as he started looking into a folder, what he would then look for, what he'd find, and what he was going to do about it. What struck me most was the infinite kindness he would show towards pc, auditor, and crew c/s, while at the same time remaining loyal to the highest standards of ethics, tech, and admin. It remains a joy to this day to remember experiencing LRH enjoying his great competence as a Senior C/S and the great power of his intention to mold the delivery line into what he was as the Ideal. I try to carry that kindness into all my sessions and do my best to uphold ethics, tech, and admin as I know them.

In 1978, I moved over into tech delivery, and became a Flag NOTs auditor in early 1980. In 1982 I was the top-performing auditor in the NOTs HGC, averaging over 40 Well Done Auditing Hours a week, with 6 pre-OTs or more on my daily line-up. When David Mayo did a tech mission on the NOTs auditing at Flag, he commended me for "good metering, good TRs, and excellent TR4." Many of the pre-OTs that came to me had had their NOTs setups in the Class XII HGC. Some of them voiced the opinion that I had to be a Class XII since they found my auditing "so smooth." Of course, I corrected them, but the error continued into the 80's and 90's as I was usually listed amongst the "original Class XII's" that the Sea Org had kicked out. In pointing out my pre-OTs' misconception, I mean no disrespect whatever to those great Class XII auditors whom I cannot hope to match.

Since leaving Flag, I have audited at David Mayo's center at Santa Barbara, then on my own for many years. I have done a lot of different kinds of projects but I enjoy auditing the most. I audit most levels, but not Power Processing or the L's. I'm happy auditing any level and consider myself a specialist in NOTs and related actions.

I am available for some traveling to clients. I live in Western Massachusetts. I would be happy to be part of a delivery community somewhere but am not making any decisions about that for the moment.

Please feel free to contact me. Thank you for reading this. :)
Ken U

I am really not impressed with your extolling this conman LRH!
You said:
" What struck me most was the infinite kindness he would show towards pc, auditor, and crew c/s, while at the same time remaining loyal to the highest standards of ethics, tech, and admin.
It remains a joy to this day to remember experiencing LRH enjoying his great competence as a Senior C/S and the great power of his intention to mold the delivery line into what he was as the Ideal.
I try to carry that kindness into all my sessions and do my best to uphold ethics, tech, and admin as I know them"
First of all " kindess "in promising results and states that were not achievable except by fantasizing them and deluding oneself. All this going on as the pc (sucker) was being pick pocketed at the Hubbard train station while waiting for a train that will never arrive..

Then you said "his intention to mold the delivery line into what he was as the Ideal"
I guess LRH's invention of the RPF was included in his intention of that molding everyone's will to do his bidding.
You sound like you need pcs (suckers) and are trolling here to promote your extended con of LRH bullcrap.
Get with the truth so listen here and envision (or mock up if you like )these sounds of my fingers SNAP! SNAP! SNAP! YOU WILL NOW BE YOURSELF AS YOU WERE BEFORE YOU EVER MET LRH !!
 
... Veda you may have realised by now that the Freezone have trouble with accepting that the problems lie with Hubbard as this undermine's their secure belief that they left the Church because of Miscavige and out-tech. Also being 'on source' they don't wish to confront the idea that Hubbard may not have been entirely source to begin with or that some of his data came from the OTO. ...

Au contraire. I've known a good many fz'ers who are perfectly willing to acknowledge that hubbard was an @sshole who could not be trusted. It's an eclectic mix.


Mark A. Baker
 
... Get with the truth so listen here and envision (or mock up if you like )these sounds of my fingers SNAP! SNAP! SNAP! YOU WILL NOW BE YOURSELF AS YOU WERE BEFORE YOU EVER MET LRH !!

A. Ken's not here. He doesn't hang out here much.

B. Ken knew hubbard extremely well, warts & all. Very much more so than almost all. They were very closely associated for many years.

C. Ken has expressed, upon numerous occasions and in a variety of venues, his concern over the scope & character of the damage done to so many by hubbard in his worst actions & betrayals.

D. Ken considers himself a personal friend of lrh and out of personal loyalty to his friend prefers to remember the positive qualities of the man he knew so well, rather than his less salubrious character traits & probable mental illness.

E. FWIW, the original idea for the RPF was actually that of Ken, not lrh. In Ken's vision the emphasis was to be placed on the word rehabilitation and not, as it subsequently was altered to by lrh, the word force.

If you wish to discuss the matter further, I suggest contacting Ken directly. He's a gentle man as well as a gentleman.


Mark A. Baker
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
Au contraire. I've known a good many fz'ers who are perfectly willing to acknowledge that hubbard was an @sshole who could not be trusted. It's an eclectic mix.

If you were to amend the above to "Hubbard was sometimes/often an @sshole", I think there would be more agreement on that amongst the Freezoners & Independents.

I reckon there is a spectrum of opinion about Ron Hubbard ranging from "That SOB was the Devil himself!" to "Ron was Mankind's greatest friend and a perfect angel/demi-god who could do no wrong" with the Freezoner's / Indies clustered towards the middle of the right-hand side and the Critics / Anti-Scientologists clustered towards the middle of the left-hand side.
 
If you were to amend the above to "Hubbard was sometimes/often an @sshole", I think there would be more agreement on that amongst the Freezoners & Independents.

I reckon there is a spectrum of opinion about Ron Hubbard ranging from "That SOB was the Devil himself!" to "Ron was Mankind's greatest friend and a perfect angel/demi-god who could do no wrong" with the Freezoner's / Indies clustered towards the middle of the right-hand side and the Critics / Anti-Scientologists clustered towards the middle of the left-hand side.

People who engage in fraud, embezzlement, physical abuse, & torture are @ssholes, even if they are also liked by some of their friends.

And don't ask me about George W. Bush. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill

freethinker

Sponsor
Just click on the box at the bottom of the spam foiler and type what it says, no scrolling necessary.
I can't. It doesn't let me create an account. It gives me this thing on the side where I'm supposed to put my name, zip and email address, ok, can do that. But then you're supposed to fill in the spamfoiler thing on the bottom but it won't let me scroll. If I hit scroll bar, it scrolls through all the fucking crap on the left.

So couldn't do it.
 
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