Ken Urquhart

Sindy

Crusader
As I said on the other Ken Urq thread, could we please fucking stop attacking each other?

We can't be expected to like everyone but we sure as shit could try to refrain from the inflammatory and ad hominem terms I've been seeing on these two threads.

Tempers run high because this shit is important to so many of us. I get that. But don't take it out on each other.

I know I'm sounding cranky as fuck, but honest to god, when I see several very good and decent people treating each other like shit, it's really soooo not what any of us are truly about.

Goddamn. I need a fucking vacation.

:flowers::hug::cheers::goodposting:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Goddamn. I need a fucking vacation.


What about going to the "Friendliest Place in the World" down in Clearwater?

It's sooooooooooo theta here and the tech will rocket you to OT and beyond your wildest dreams.

I am there right now and here's a picture of me between sessions. They are bringing me a margarita!

Yeah! That's right, all the arbitraries are canceled and you can do shots right before or even during session if the BPC is getting to be too much.

drinks_on_beach-turtle-island.jpg



 
I have no idea why Mark was so interested in defending Ken Urquhart.

I have neither defended nor attacked Ken. Your insistence to the contrary merely illustrates your own presently delusional state. :eyeroll:

Frankly, there is no point in discussing anything with you since you are not open to any communication from other than within your own head.


Mark A. Baker
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
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paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Thanks for the excellent vid, paradox!
I watched a few of the series then jumped to No. 9, which was very interesting and I recommend it.

Most welcome, Arthur (and Gottabrain, and HH). Thank you, as well, for posting this very poignant segment.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I have neither defended nor attacked Ken. Your insistence to the contrary merely illustrates your own presently delusional state. :eyeroll:

Frankly, there is no point in discussing anything with you since you are not open to any communication from other than within your own head.


Mark A. Baker

Is this somehow different from your first response to me? Or is this the sort of response you just copy and paste for anyone you disagree with and write repeated times for your own benefit? Already answered you once. Same answer as before. Got it?

Your personal animosity towards Ken is causing you to become delusional and project onto others. Mark A. Baker

Same answer as before, Mark:

A very sad attempt to discredit the person when you can't derail the thread or have a logical argument.

Thanks for another fine demonstration of the real Scientology in practice, Mark. Would you like to copy and paste another version of your "discredit the source" response that you think of as "communication" to me a third time?

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G

Gottabrain

Guest
Eaglewoman had the best response re Ken Urquhart.

Mark Baker, you ought to take some tips and lessons on communication from this fine woman. And it was her first post ever. I am reposting what she said here:

It is my opinion that the RPF is one of the most suppressive and horrific,blood curdling institutions going on in the church of Scientology.I do not condone it in any way.
Regarding Ken URquhart:He was LRH communicator at the time and LRH told him to devise some kind of rehabilitation programme.Please read all that he wrote in his blog and not just part of it.He by the way has not read the latest books and doesn't know to what extent of absolute evil and torture and dehumanization this program has now been taken.His program meant to last a few weeks,people were supposed to get 7 hours of sleep and 5 hours of study and auditing.I don't even say i agree with that because i don't,but it is so far from what the RPF became.Ken himself also went to the RPF in 1980.
Now,i have never posted here before.But due to the attacks on ken i have decided to say a few things here.
I have worked with Ken at Flag for a few years and i know him as a human being and as a scientologist.Ken is a very hinorable man who has always cared about others and has a high level of integrity.He is a shy person and that has been misread as aloof by some who don't know him closely.But he has love and compassion and he cares very much about helping others.That is who Ken is.We have all evolved and we are all trying to heal from the damages of being in the cult.He is also always evolving.Ken is 72 years old,a gentelman and a man of honor.Like all of us i am sure he has many mixed feelings about his part in the Sea org.I know him and i know how kind he is and that he cares tremendously.
I just wanted to express my view point here.

Thank you, Eaglewoman. As I promised, I will read all of what Ken has to say about the RPF and greatly appreciate your post. WELCOME.
 

dexter gelfand

Patron Meritorious
K I don't see the slightest shade of compassion toward these people in his blog. He has a lot of growing up to do to get out of his self-centered, egotistical little world and learn to truly care about others.

Hi Gotta, please consider my personal experience with Ken:

(copied and pasted from post # 479- see link: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=21261&page=48 )

A few years ago, I lost my son Geoffrey to cancer. It was a long, horrible, painful struggle, for both of us, I took care of him and managed his medical case handling the best I could, along the way he lost his ability to speak to swallow food, to even stand up. He died in my home.

Ken Urquhart heard about it, invited me into his home, and audited me to help relieve me of the pain and loss. He asked for nothing in return, never suggested that I take any paid services and has never asked me for anything. If that fits your definition of having been "charmed by his personality", so be it.


Love, Dex

 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Thanks very much, Dexter.

I have laid off of Ken Urquhart. I'm sure we can patch things up. There are many different ways to view things. People are complex. It is good - and appreciated - for those of you who gave me views of Ken from different perspectives. Perspective is sanity and wisdom. :) What he did for you was very kind and compassionate.

I believe Aida has also laid off Ken in the last 12-18 hrs or so. Hope Ken and Terril do the same. Truce. :) (and btw, I didn't say anything about being charmed by Ken's personality)

peace.jpg
 

Sindy

Crusader
Thanks very much, Dexter.

I have laid off of Ken Urquhart. I'm sure we can patch things up. There are many different ways to view things. People are complex. It is good - and appreciated - for those of you who gave me views of Ken from different perspectives. Perspective is sanity and wisdom. :) What he did for you was very kind and compassionate.

I believe Aida has also laid off Ken in the last 12-18 hrs or so. Hope Ken and Terril do the same. Truce. :) (and btw, I didn't say anything about being charmed by Ken's personality)

peace.jpg

Sheila, right here and right now you have shown yourself to be far, far above the mindset of those who would put someone on the RPF. This communication is aesthetically beautiful and shows you to be strong and courageous. I understand your anger. I agree with you totally and yet you put that aside for a moment. If only those who had allowed the RPF to exist could have been as rational. If they would have been, they would have been you but, alas, you are you and that is why you are free and they are still enslaved. :smoochy:
 

dexter gelfand

Patron Meritorious
Thanks very much, Dexter.

I have laid off of Ken Urquhart. I'm sure we can patch things up. There are many different ways to view things. People are complex. It is good - and appreciated - for those of you who gave me views of Ken from different perspectives. Perspective is sanity and wisdom. :) What he did for you was very kind and compassionate.

I believe Aida has also laid off Ken in the last 12-18 hrs or so. Hope Ken and Terril do the same. Truce. :) (and btw, I didn't say anything about being charmed by Ken's personality)

peace.jpg

Hey Gotta, I knew you'd understand :). Ken was concerned about something that happened between someone who had contacted him and Diana, and was trying to be helpful to the person who claimed to have been wronged by Aida. Things only got more complex when Ken tried to be of assistance, and Ken, seeing this was going nowhere good, made it known that he would have no more to say about it. Aida had taken Ken's attempt to intercede as a personal attack, and that's when several posts appeared on ESMB that were nasty toward Ken. Hopefully, that is all water under (over?) the bridge.

The thing about "being charmed by Ken's personality" was not a reply to you, click on that link for the actual context.

Here's wishing that everything goes your way in 2011, Gotta!:)

Love, Dex
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Wow, Syn. You just floor me. You have the biggest heart and say the kindest things. Thank you. Sometimes it is like having you sit right next to me and sharing a hug. I am so fortunate to have you as a friend.:arose:

Dex, you are also a kind hearted man, easy to talk to. I can see why counseling is something near and dear to your heart. :heartflower:
There is no question in my mind of the purity of your intentions to help others, and I am sure they sense that quality in you as well.

Ken did what he could to keep things under control. They system itself became an uncontrollable monster, because it was written for one who chose punishment and degradation as a method to control. There is some sort of procedure like this common to every cult.

Some of his comments about the RPF could have been a bit more - personal and sincere. This is something I will discuss with him in private.

Meantime, may all good things come for all of us in 2011 and all the wishes dearest to your hearts come true.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

new+year-sydney2009.4.jpg
 

Sindy

Crusader
Wow, Syn. You just floor me. You have the biggest heart and say the kindest things. Thank you. Sometimes it is like having you sit right next to me and sharing a hug. I am so fortunate to have you as a friend.:arose:

Dex, you are also a kind hearted man, easy to talk to. I can see why counseling is something near and dear to your heart. :heartflower:
There is no question in my mind of the purity of your intentions to help others, and I am sure they sense that quality in you as well.

Ken did what he could to keep things under control. They system itself became an uncontrollable monster, because it was written for one who chose punishment and degradation as a method to control. There is some sort of procedure like this common to every cult.

Some of his comments about the RPF could have been a bit more - personal and sincere. This is something I will discuss with him in private.

Meantime, may all good things come for all of us in 2011 and all the wishes dearest to your hearts come true.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

new+year-sydney2009.4.jpg

Happy, Happy New Year Sheilal!!!!

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Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for such an excellent video. It gives great insight into the frailty of normal, simple people interacting with sociopaths.

People who have crossed paths with Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige have similarly ruined psyches.

What is amazing to me is that Scientologists outside the Church (who have free access to the internet) still justify or minimize the evil destruction of their favorite sociopath Hubbard.

Yup. I did that for a long time because I was so indoctrinated. A piece of my personality couldn't, wouldn't look at the real biographies...it was off-policy.
:duh:

Ken obviously sees the very best in LRH and was in awe of him for years. Humans seem to be built that way. Once we bond, UN-bonding is unlikely in spite of mountains of evidence. Additionally, Ken's a tech guy who simply enjoys auditing. Why would he embark on a route to discredit his hero. In the opening remarks on his talk at the Freezone, he says that LRH was not perfect--and there lies Ken's justification logic which I suspect he's used many, many times.
 

freet43

Patron with Honors
Sheila,

If you are going to quote from that website, don't leave out the rest of the section:

There are a few things about the original design of the RPF that I now certainly think were wrong, and wish I had done otherwise; in practice, on the ship at least, these things worked themselves out well and eased my conscience. The principal one I have in mind is that the RPF should be fed on the remains of the food given to the general crew. This requirement was well within the traditions of the Sea Org but nonetheless was wrong and unworkable. People have to have decent food and enough of it. I also demanded that RPF people not speak to any crew unless spoken to first. On the ship, this gave way to the practical needs of working together, and nobody made any fuss about it.

Off the ship, others set up RPFs. By all accounts, some of these became sadly distorted. By that time, the Byzantine(2) politics of the organization made my intervention pointless.

Whatever else one reads into the documents that set up and formed the RPF on the ship, I don't see how one can miss that the RPF (a) took people out of a highly enturbulated environment, (b) gave them physical tasks to do that they could complete, task by task, (c) encouraged them to do very good jobs of what they were doing, (d) gave them plenty of time in which to study and deliver auditing sessions of each other, (e) was intended to help them recover their own morale (or, in some cases, find it for the first time), (f) returned them to the regular crew.

That Jon can say that they spent all their time 'revealing their evil purposes' is ranting nonsense. In session, they were given all the rights of preclears everywhere. If there were evil purposes demanding handling they were addressed. There were technical fads from time to time that might have included checking for evil purposes. RPF members received tough Ethics handlings, yes. That was expected and accepted.

I saw a lot of people improve their own conditions markedly by working through the RPF on the ship. If some had a hard time because of incorrect ethics or technical handling I hope they have had or will have the opportunity to repair the damage completely.


This web article is Ken's response to what he perceieves as inacuracies and misrepresentations of statements by Jon Atack in a Piece of Blue Sky published in 1990, 21 years ago....

Note that Ken left the co$ in 1982!

The RPF on the ship was nothing like what it became later.

I have friends that were on the RPF in the late 70s and early 80s and the main focus during that time was progress on their co-auditing....which also meant they were pcs and needed to be sessionable and fed.

The RPF horrors started years after Ken left the SO. To think he could have done anything about what the RPF became is absurd.

PS. And, I should have read the rest of the thread before I responded, as I see things turned around later in the thread...but still, the dropped out time was important to bring up.

Have you had a chance to chat with Ken?

Marina
 
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Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

The RPF horrors started years after Ken left the SO.

-snip-

Forgive my language, but that's bullshit.

And don't forget about the RPF's RPF for those who don't "cooperate" adequately with the RPF, the program run by L. Ron Hubbard's totalist mind-control cult, to "rehabilitate" them.

Why is the Scientology FreeZone doing PR damage control on the friggin' RPF?

What next, PR damage control on Hubbard putting small children in the chain locker? Oh wait, that already happened. I recall reading Urquhart writing that the practice of placing children in the chain locker was discontinued after a year or so. So it really wasn't that bad.

He didn't mention that small children were no longer allowed on the ship and that's why it was discontinued.

This topic, the topic of the RPF, the RPF's RPF, and the Children's RPF http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=21399 , have been pretty well covered.

I am so done with Ken Urquhart, the man who is awaiting L. Ron Hubbard's return, when Hubbard will be "1000 times more brilliant."
 
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