Kicked The Cult In 2012. Still Decompressing And Finding MY Way.

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Ah.... You know, I accidentally hit that button last night and noted that it returns you to the rich text editor. Didn't realize I could use that to escape the quotation box.

Thanks, mate!
Much appreciated!

Voodoo


Yep, now yer on yer way proper like mate.

Thinks ... If only that numpty FAIRNINGTON could have been half so appreciative ...
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
Thank you, Sheila! Glad to be here!
:) Good to have ya!

Just so you know a little about me: I was in the SO for 9 years, in Estates and at AOLA, and left in 1986. I did the OEC, the ESTO course, Class V and through OT IV, plus countless full hats. I was never a Scientologist before the Sea Org and was 16 when I joined.

Since I just got a bad cut through the nail of my index finger while trimming shrubs, I can't type too well right now, so sorry for the short post.

We each have to find our own way. I'm completely out of Scn, but as long as you don't "ridge up" at the information here, I'm sure you'll get along fine and maybe some of the FZers will participate more with you onboard. :)

Personally, I'm glad to hear you have the integrity to find the crimes of Scientology despicable and not give it excuses. :thumbsup:

The rest, well, maybe it's fortunate for you I have an injured index finger right now. :giggle: Just teasing, but L Ron Hubbard was always a scammer and a ripoff artist. There were less horrible times before the Sea Org existed, but even the original ACC students were abused by Ron and messed up. I met a lot of them at AOLA. :sad:

Despite all that, the power of a person's mind is so strong that I think a few people just willed themselves to improve using Scientology. There are surely more humane, proven methods than what L Ron pushed. That the most vicious actions of Scientology are completely on-policy as written by Ron is an undeniable fact. DM of course, created the push for new buildings, but most of his actions are Scientology as written.

I hope to have some good conversations with you about these things. :yes: For now, well, that's about all I can type for today. (Owie finger!)
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
There are no restrictions as to what anyone can say on this message board really @Voodoo apart from the rules about ad hominem attacks on individuals other than LRH & DM.

What baffles me is that we know the clearing course materials have no basis in fact or reality and are simply the figment of a second-rate science-fiction writers' vivid imagination, but then someone like yourself comes along and says they made great 'gains' from it. If you say you did, well then you did, but that doesn't make it any the less perplexing to me.

Another poster here Terril park says he made spectacular 'gains' from running OTII (more of the same space-opera gobbledegook). Wonders will never cease!
I totally get where you're coming from. I have no reality on Terril Park's experiences with OTII, just as you have no reality on my experiences with Clear.

I also have no reality on touch assists, having never experienced any wins from receiving them, though I've known others who rave about them. :scratch:

Same goes for the incessant pulling of withholds. Up to a point, I experienced real relief from confessing my 'sins', but beyond that it was just sheer mental abuse and torture from which I received NO benefit. After too many sessions of being hammered for my withholds, I began to develop a powerful ridge against the process. I mean, for God's sake, how many times do I have to confess the same damn transgressions?? :dizzy:

My dumb ass didn't realize at the time that the cult was simply probing me to build a dossier they could use to blackmail me in the future. Thank God I never did FPRD. That shit would have surely driven me stark raving mad. That, or I would have wound up strangling someone.

But yeah, different people got different things out of their association with the tech and the cult itself. Some good, some bad, some totally tragic.
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
We have all types here. We have Indies who still think the Tech is great, and were just unhappy with the organization's totalitarianism. We have people here who now believe it was all a total scam and the tech is completely worthless.

(we also have all sorts of political persuasions. Those discussions are restricted to the members-only politics forum)
Man, that's good to know. I would much rather hang with a group where all viewpoints are tolerated, than one where everyone is forced to toe the party line (left or right). That's not freedom. It's cultish.

Like I said before, I'm 100% anti-CoS, and more or less moderate where the tech is concerned. In my personal experience, some of the tech is valid and helpful, while some of it is absolute bullshit. As to LRH, I think he was a genius with severe personal defects. More than a 'Source' or seer, I think he was brilliant at finding (or recognizing) the workable tech of others, then incorporating those techniques into his own gig. It sadly follows that he eventually took credit for originating every single word of Scn tech, when nothing could be further from the truth. :no: I believe Sarge when he said LRH told him, "I failed."

Alrighty. Thank you much for helping out a newbie. :cheers:
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
:) Good to have ya!

I'm glad to hear you have the integrity to find the crimes of Scientology despicable and not give it excuses. :thumbsup:

L Ron Hubbard was always a scammer and a ripoff artist. There were less horrible times before the Sea Org existed, but even the original ACC students were abused by Ron and messed up. I met a lot of them at AOLA. :sad:

I hope to have some good conversations with you about these things. :yes:
Thanks, Sheila. I've been reading the critics for six years now, so I have a wealth of information I didn't have when I was in the bubble. Even then I knew something was wrong with the church - I just couldn't put all the pieces together. What I didn't know at the time was, that was by design. :grouch::angry:

By deliberately cutting the flow of information to its parishioners, the cult keeps them from putting two and two together, which then keeps them stupid and securely tethered to the yoke. :no:

I worked for the SO about the same length of time as you did. Let me stop right there and thank you for your service. Despite everything that's wrong with that organization, I am sure that you gave true help to others along the way. I've got a lot of respect for ex SO and other staff. They sacrificed tremendously in pursuit of some lofty goals, and no one should ever give them short shrift for that.

I can't disagree with you about LRH. The guy was a seriously flawed person his entire life. Despite the fact that he audited (and was audited) more than anyone alive, it seemingly never did him a damn bit of good. May as well stamp NCG (no case gain) on every one of his folders, eh? :think:

I hope to share more of my history as time goes on. I'm just a small fish in the grand scheme of things, but I know how much our favorite cult intelligence agency loves to spread vicious lies about its critics. I went very public in 2012 and they didn't put up a hate website on me. Not worth the trouble, I suppose, but still... :confused:

Thanks again for the warm welcome!
 
Friend, I'm not sure there's any answer I could give that would satisfy your request, but I'll try.

Before I did the Clear step I always had some degree of mental chatter going on in my head. After Clear I never had that again. My mind is quiet, unless I intentionally create some 'noise' in there.

Before Clear I was an incessant worrier. After Clear, not so much. By that, I mean that I don't habitually worry over the small stuff in life. Actually, I don't reflexively worry over the big stuff, either. I tend to face problems and crises with more of an analytical, problem solving approach nowadays. Before, I'd be down inside my head chasing my tail.

Before Clear I had a hard time seeing others' points of view. I had a compulsive need to be right in every conversation, and couldn't fathom how anyone could disagree with me. After Clear I became much more empathetic, and could see the validity of others' viewpoints. It's actually a great relief to have regained the ability to be wrong.

Before Clear I was quiet, shy, and often kept to myself. Sometimes, depending on the circumstance, I could break out of my shell, but it took effort, and was uncomfortable. After Clear that changed 180 degrees. I became very chatty and outgoing - almost to a fault, but it wasn't compulsive. I found that I could reach or withdraw in social situations at will, depending on my interest.

Before Clear my personal ethics were a bit loose and squishy. My honesty and integrity were situational and very selective. I would lie, cheat, or steal without thinking - almost instinctively. After Clear that all changed. Whatever was compelling me to be that way, just vanished. I don't recall even inspecting that area. It wasn't something I consciously chose to do. I just quit being such a louse in that regard.

So there you go. That's my experience with Clear. I can't prove to you or anyone else that I honestly achieved those gains. There isn't any scientific study that could verify any of this for outside observers. It's entirely subjective, and can't be sensed or measured by anyone but me, myself, and I.

Being new here, I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, nor do I want to upset the group dynamic in any way. If posts like this one are unwanted, I'll quit talking about my positive experiences with Scn tech.

Thanks,
Voodoo
Welcome! Thanks for that. Your wins on going clear are similar as mine when I left scn and realised I didnt have a bank (according to life outside scn) to get rid of. So phobias etc left me I became v chatty and I felt my mind opened up and had such affinity for the rest of the world etc ...so sounds like we achieved similar gains which is interesting and makes me think its all down to individual perception.
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
Welcome! Thanks for that. Your wins on going clear are similar as mine when I left scn and realised I didnt have a bank (according to life outside scn) to get rid of. So phobias etc left me I became v chatty and I felt my mind opened up and had such affinity for the rest of the world etc ...so sounds like we achieved similar gains which is interesting and makes me think its all down to individual perception.
Thanks for the validation, Rose. I'm glad to hear that you got something out of your Clear step. I'm also very glad that you're out of the cult.

As I said upthread, I don't give a rat's patoot whether or not my gains match up to Hubbard's overblown promises. I got something immensely special to me out of it, which I've never lost.

In the end, that's all that really matters. :D
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Thanks, Sheila. I've been reading the critics for six years now, so I have a wealth of information I didn't have when I was in the bubble. Even then I knew something was wrong with the church - I just couldn't put all the pieces together. What I didn't know at the time was, that was by design. :grouch::angry:

By deliberately cutting the flow of information to its parishioners, the cult keeps them from putting two and two together, which then keeps them stupid and securely tethered to the yoke. :no:

I worked for the SO about the same length of time as you did. Let me stop right there and thank you for your service. Despite everything that's wrong with that organization, I am sure that you gave true help to others along the way. I've got a lot of respect for ex SO and other staff. They sacrificed tremendously in pursuit of some lofty goals, and no one should ever give them short shrift for that.

I can't disagree with you about LRH. The guy was a seriously flawed person his entire life. Despite the fact that he audited (and was audited) more than anyone alive, it seemingly never did him a damn bit of good. May as well stamp NCG (no case gain) on every one of his folders, eh? :think:

I hope to share more of my history as time goes on. I'm just a small fish in the grand scheme of things, but I know how much our favorite cult intelligence agency loves to spread vicious lies about its critics. I went very public in 2012 and they didn't put up a hate website on me. Not worth the trouble, I suppose, but still... :confused:

Thanks again for the warm welcome!
The thing is, you never needed a via. You know what I mean?

Maybe it took some time to discover that, but anyone who acts as a via between you and your soul or your destiny is basically a usurper of your energy, a vampire, whether it means taking your young years, your money, or your ambitious, imaginative endeavors. Spiritual vampires.

You would have been fine without Scientology and had a lot more years to your life, too. :yes:

Thank you SO much for coming forward publicly in 2012. I also did a media stint and came forward publicly. It takes courage. I took a long time (years!) to get up the guts to stand up to the C of S. You did it in a much shorter time. That's SO cool! :love2:

Index finger injury or I would have written more, sorry. Should have had two stitches but I'm good with butterfly bandaids and appalled at the US healthcare situation, so did it myself. It will be a few days before I'm up to 90 wpm again. :giggle:
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
The thing is, you never needed a via. You know what I mean?

Maybe it took some time to discover that, but anyone who acts as a via between you and your soul or your destiny is basically a usurper of your energy, a vampire, whether it means taking your young years, your money, or your ambitious, imaginative endeavors. Spiritual vampires.

You would have been fine without Scientology and had a lot more years to your life, too. :yes:

Thank you SO much for coming forward publicly in 2012. I also did a media stint and came forward publicly. It takes courage. I took a long time (years!) to get up the guts to stand up to the C of S. You did it in a much shorter time. That's SO cool! :love2:

Index finger injury or I would have written more, sorry. Should have had two stitches but I'm good with butterfly bandaids and appalled at the US healthcare situation, so did it myself. It will be a few days before I'm up to 90 wpm again. :giggle:
That's a powerful insight, Sheila. It underlines a point that's rarely made during these conversations, which is the enormous responsibility inherent in the act of assuming control over the spiritual enlightenment of others.

Spirits, minds, and bodies are frail things, and can so easily be injured by haphazard, careless treatment. Malicious treatment by spiritual guides and helpers is even worse, and can result in life changing harm to those unlucky enough to find themselves under such people's care and supervision.

Lord knows, most of us on this board have lived through varying degrees of mistreatment at the hands of the cult. To be fair, many of us also experienced excellent care and supervision on the part of select individuals in our time inside that group, but it was usually the luck of the draw that we wound up in such good hands.

Despite Hubbard's strict insistence on delivering Scn services within a tightly defined set of 'standard' practices, the personal experiences of those involved with the church has been anything but. Tens of thousands have discovered (much to their horror) that, not only was the care and supervision of their spiritual quest slipshod and lacking in any sort of 'standard', much of the time participation in church services was like being put through a meat grinder.

Because of the church's abject refusal (or inability) to assume honest responsibility for the sacred trust bestowed upon them by their parishioners, ninety percent of their followers have left, and will have nothing further to do with them.

I don't think I can name another religious group that has suffered such devastating attrition, as the church of Scientology.

Thank you for the kind words about my coming out. At the time it seemed like the only honorable choice I had. I'd been in too long, and had seen far too much to just walk away quietly. I felt duty bound to say something publicly. I did, and it felt amazingly liberating. I'm sure you felt something similar when you went public.

Hope your finger heals soon!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Talking about "WINS FROM SCIENTOLOGY", I am reminded of a time I was in Scientology and went out with friends bowling. I have only bowled a few times as a kid and have no idea how to bowl, never did. I sometimes luckily hit a strike or spare but virtually everything I do is fundamentally wrong.

So!

Bunch of Scientologists now bowling. I started bowling strikes! And spares! Nearly 200 score! WTF???

The ball felt really tiny in my hand and I was (for unknown reasons) "in the zone". It was simple to control the ball and put it exactly where i wanted. My form was still abominably wrong (e.g. no spin on the ball) but i could at least "AIM" it and hit was i was aiming at.

Unbelievable. Exhilarating!

So, because i was in Scientology was that an OT WIN?

Because i was with other Clears and OTs was that bowling win due to being around theta beings?

Is this worthy of an OT SUCCESS STORY in Advance! magazine, because i "rose above my bank" or "as-ised my considerations" or "suddenly had an unprecedented havingness resurgence so I could "have" strikes!"???

What if I stated here that the LRH tech is why I had that amazing win? Would everyone agree? Would some criticize me as a flakey cult member still drinking kool aid?

Would people here be afraid of "invalidating" my win by saying I was stupid to assign this "bowling miracle" to LRH's tech?

I must have applied some "tech", right? Otherwise how could i have suddenly bowled like that?

Could i have written an OT WIN that I "now knew I would never bowl a crappy score again!"?

TRUTH REVEALED: We were all drinking beers and the rock-n-roll PA system was rocking. This was "after-hours" bowling in a total party atmosphere. So i was totally buzzed-on-beer.

QUESTION: Is beer therefore "technology" because I had "huge wins" and it "worked"???

PRO-BOWLING TIP: BeerTech, get some!
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I totally get where you're coming from. I have no reality on Terril Park's experiences with OTII, just as you have no reality on my experiences with Clear.

I also have no reality on touch assists, having never experienced any wins from receiving them, though I've known others who rave about them. :scratch:

Same goes for the incessant pulling of withholds. Up to a point, I experienced real relief from confessing my 'sins', but beyond that it was just sheer mental abuse and torture from which I received NO benefit. After too many sessions of being hammered for my withholds, I began to develop a powerful ridge against the process. I mean, for God's sake, how many times do I have to confess the same damn transgressions?? :dizzy:

My dumb ass didn't realize at the time that the cult was simply probing me to build a dossier they could use to blackmail me in the future. Thank God I never did FPRD. That shit would have surely driven me stark raving mad. That, or I would have wound up strangling someone.

But yeah, different people got different things out of their association with the tech and the cult itself. Some good, some bad, some totally tragic.
I also don't recall any wins from receiving touch assists, but did seem to get good results consistently from delivering them.

I just assumed that others did as well same as me, and was surprised when comparing notes with others, who saw them as pretty much ineffective.

After studying some scientific literature on the placebo effect and how best to invoke it I realized that I was excellent at doing just that, and am confident that that IS how I got my results.

Actually, one of the posters on this forum (no longer active) who was an OT VIII completion, believes that HIS wins along the "bridge" were due to the placebo effect as well. I believe that was discussed here in this thread.
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
I also don't recall any wins from receiving touch assists, but did seem to get good results consistently from delivering them.

After studying some scientific literature on the placebo effect and how best to invoke it I realized that I was excellent at doing just that, and am confident that that IS how I got my results.
As with so much of the tech of Scientology, touch assists have been over-promoted as to their value and workability. While I believe the technique does put a person in better communication with their body, I don't believe that they induce healing by, and of themselves.

Real healing is accomplished through improving the condition of a host of various physical and spiritual factors such as: sleep/rest, nutrition, environment, external stresses, internal stresses, immune system, personal relations, personal outlook, body toxicity, body pH, general health, microbiological environment, system integrity, medicines, medical procedures, prior treatments, and last but not least, the bedside manner of care-givers.

There is also the variable of patient receptivity. Patients sometimes exhibit a phenomenon called, 'non-compliance'. This is when a patient rejects their medicines, medical procedures, or other prescribed therapies. It can happen in counseling, too.

Hubbard obviously ignored the need for a comprehensive approach to healing when he promoted his assist tech to his followers. An honest man would have made doggone sure it was well understood by one and all, that his assists were just that - an assist to a well rounded treatment plan.

I don't know whose fault it is, but somehow the label, 'assist', morphed into 'panacea'.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
<snip>

Real healing is accomplished through improving the condition of a host of various physical and spiritual factors such as: sleep/rest, nutrition, environment, external stresses, internal stresses, immune system, personal relations, personal outlook, body toxicity, body pH, general health, microbiological environment, system integrity, medicines, medical procedures, prior treatments, and last but not least, the bedside manner of care-givers.

<snip>

...And chiropractic treatment for my old back injury. A touch assist didn't help at all.

(also low dose Iron with vitamin C can fix purpura.)
 
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Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
...And chiropractic treatment for my old back injury. A touch assist didn't help at all.
That mirrors my experiences with touch assist tech and chiropractic therapy.

For whatever reason, touch assists never bit on me. Who knows, maybe I was just resistant and un-receptive to some stranger repeatedly touching my body? I don't know, but they were always a huge waste of time to me.

A lot of what Hubbard introduced as workable tech, was tested on just a few individuals prior to release to the broad public as 'fully researched'. Sometimes his 'research' involved just one test subject.

Now, that's my view of touch assist tech, but it's only based on my observations of one test subject - me, so take it with a grain of salt. ;) Your mileage may vary.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Talking about "WINS FROM SCIENTOLOGY", I am reminded of a time I was in Scientology and went out with friends bowling. I have only bowled a few times as a kid and have no idea how to bowl, never did. I sometimes luckily hit a strike or spare but virtually everything I do is fundamentally wrong.

So!

Bunch of Scientologists now bowling. I started bowling strikes! And spares! Nearly 200 score! WTF???

The ball felt really tiny in my hand and I was (for unknown reasons) "in the zone". It was simple to control the ball and put it exactly where i wanted. My form was still abominably wrong (e.g. no spin on the ball) but i could at least "AIM" it and hit was i was aiming at.

Unbelievable. Exhilarating!
"In the zone" regarding physical activity happened with me only once, playing darts. Interesting, because alcohol was involved too. Now, I've drunk alcohol while playing darts many other times, but the phenomenon didn't repeat.

What is this "In the zone"-ness as encountered by top athletes? It seems to be the same phenomenon as "being exterior", often (heatedly) discussed on ESMB.

Alcohol can lead to a temporarily altered mental state too. Think I'll stop here. :biggrin:

Paul
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Touch assists? I think TA's work, when they do, by "balancing up flows". There's no need to get deeper into whatever subtle-energy systems are in one's extended anatomy, "meridians"/"acupuncture points" in Chinese medicine.

Someone who has had a bunch of TA's will be relatively well-balanced, and so the marginal benefit of one more TA will be small. Someone who has never had one, or any other balancing procedure (Touch for Health comes to mind, as I did a couple of workshops in that), is likely to respond much better as there is more to be put right.

Paul
 
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