Ah.... You know, I accidentally hit that button last night and noted that it returns you to the rich text editor. Didn't realize I could use that to escape the quotation box.
Good to have ya!Thank you, Sheila! Glad to be here!
I totally get where you're coming from. I have no reality on Terril Park's experiences with OTII, just as you have no reality on my experiences with Clear.There are no restrictions as to what anyone can say on this message board really @Voodoo apart from the rules about ad hominem attacks on individuals other than LRH & DM.
What baffles me is that we know the clearing course materials have no basis in fact or reality and are simply the figment of a second-rate science-fiction writers' vivid imagination, but then someone like yourself comes along and says they made great 'gains' from it. If you say you did, well then you did, but that doesn't make it any the less perplexing to me.
Another poster here Terril park says he made spectacular 'gains' from running OTII (more of the same space-opera gobbledegook). Wonders will never cease!
Man, that's good to know. I would much rather hang with a group where all viewpoints are tolerated, than one where everyone is forced to toe the party line (left or right). That's not freedom. It's cultish.We have all types here. We have Indies who still think the Tech is great, and were just unhappy with the organization's totalitarianism. We have people here who now believe it was all a total scam and the tech is completely worthless.
(we also have all sorts of political persuasions. Those discussions are restricted to the members-only politics forum)
Thanks, Sheila. I've been reading the critics for six years now, so I have a wealth of information I didn't have when I was in the bubble. Even then I knew something was wrong with the church - I just couldn't put all the pieces together. What I didn't know at the time was, that was by design.Good to have ya!
I'm glad to hear you have the integrity to find the crimes of Scientology despicable and not give it excuses.
L Ron Hubbard was always a scammer and a ripoff artist. There were less horrible times before the Sea Org existed, but even the original ACC students were abused by Ron and messed up. I met a lot of them at AOLA.
I hope to have some good conversations with you about these things.
Welcome! Thanks for that. Your wins on going clear are similar as mine when I left scn and realised I didnt have a bank (according to life outside scn) to get rid of. So phobias etc left me I became v chatty and I felt my mind opened up and had such affinity for the rest of the world etc ...so sounds like we achieved similar gains which is interesting and makes me think its all down to individual perception.Friend, I'm not sure there's any answer I could give that would satisfy your request, but I'll try.
Before I did the Clear step I always had some degree of mental chatter going on in my head. After Clear I never had that again. My mind is quiet, unless I intentionally create some 'noise' in there.
Before Clear I was an incessant worrier. After Clear, not so much. By that, I mean that I don't habitually worry over the small stuff in life. Actually, I don't reflexively worry over the big stuff, either. I tend to face problems and crises with more of an analytical, problem solving approach nowadays. Before, I'd be down inside my head chasing my tail.
Before Clear I had a hard time seeing others' points of view. I had a compulsive need to be right in every conversation, and couldn't fathom how anyone could disagree with me. After Clear I became much more empathetic, and could see the validity of others' viewpoints. It's actually a great relief to have regained the ability to be wrong.
Before Clear I was quiet, shy, and often kept to myself. Sometimes, depending on the circumstance, I could break out of my shell, but it took effort, and was uncomfortable. After Clear that changed 180 degrees. I became very chatty and outgoing - almost to a fault, but it wasn't compulsive. I found that I could reach or withdraw in social situations at will, depending on my interest.
Before Clear my personal ethics were a bit loose and squishy. My honesty and integrity were situational and very selective. I would lie, cheat, or steal without thinking - almost instinctively. After Clear that all changed. Whatever was compelling me to be that way, just vanished. I don't recall even inspecting that area. It wasn't something I consciously chose to do. I just quit being such a louse in that regard.
So there you go. That's my experience with Clear. I can't prove to you or anyone else that I honestly achieved those gains. There isn't any scientific study that could verify any of this for outside observers. It's entirely subjective, and can't be sensed or measured by anyone but me, myself, and I.
Being new here, I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, nor do I want to upset the group dynamic in any way. If posts like this one are unwanted, I'll quit talking about my positive experiences with Scn tech.
Thanks for the validation, Rose. I'm glad to hear that you got something out of your Clear step. I'm also very glad that you're out of the cult.Welcome! Thanks for that. Your wins on going clear are similar as mine when I left scn and realised I didnt have a bank (according to life outside scn) to get rid of. So phobias etc left me I became v chatty and I felt my mind opened up and had such affinity for the rest of the world etc ...so sounds like we achieved similar gains which is interesting and makes me think its all down to individual perception.
The thing is, you never needed a via. You know what I mean?Thanks, Sheila. I've been reading the critics for six years now, so I have a wealth of information I didn't have when I was in the bubble. Even then I knew something was wrong with the church - I just couldn't put all the pieces together. What I didn't know at the time was, that was by design.
By deliberately cutting the flow of information to its parishioners, the cult keeps them from putting two and two together, which then keeps them stupid and securely tethered to the yoke.
I worked for the SO about the same length of time as you did. Let me stop right there and thank you for your service. Despite everything that's wrong with that organization, I am sure that you gave true help to others along the way. I've got a lot of respect for ex SO and other staff. They sacrificed tremendously in pursuit of some lofty goals, and no one should ever give them short shrift for that.
I can't disagree with you about LRH. The guy was a seriously flawed person his entire life. Despite the fact that he audited (and was audited) more than anyone alive, it seemingly never did him a damn bit of good. May as well stamp NCG (no case gain) on every one of his folders, eh?
I hope to share more of my history as time goes on. I'm just a small fish in the grand scheme of things, but I know how much our favorite cult intelligence agency loves to spread vicious lies about its critics. I went very public in 2012 and they didn't put up a hate website on me. Not worth the trouble, I suppose, but still...
Thanks again for the warm welcome!
That's a powerful insight, Sheila. It underlines a point that's rarely made during these conversations, which is the enormous responsibility inherent in the act of assuming control over the spiritual enlightenment of others.The thing is, you never needed a via. You know what I mean?
Maybe it took some time to discover that, but anyone who acts as a via between you and your soul or your destiny is basically a usurper of your energy, a vampire, whether it means taking your young years, your money, or your ambitious, imaginative endeavors. Spiritual vampires.
You would have been fine without Scientology and had a lot more years to your life, too.
Thank you SO much for coming forward publicly in 2012. I also did a media stint and came forward publicly. It takes courage. I took a long time (years!) to get up the guts to stand up to the C of S. You did it in a much shorter time. That's SO cool!
Index finger injury or I would have written more, sorry. Should have had two stitches but I'm good with butterfly bandaids and appalled at the US healthcare situation, so did it myself. It will be a few days before I'm up to 90 wpm again.
I also don't recall any wins from receiving touch assists, but did seem to get good results consistently from delivering them.I totally get where you're coming from. I have no reality on Terril Park's experiences with OTII, just as you have no reality on my experiences with Clear.
I also have no reality on touch assists, having never experienced any wins from receiving them, though I've known others who rave about them.
Same goes for the incessant pulling of withholds. Up to a point, I experienced real relief from confessing my 'sins', but beyond that it was just sheer mental abuse and torture from which I received NO benefit. After too many sessions of being hammered for my withholds, I began to develop a powerful ridge against the process. I mean, for God's sake, how many times do I have to confess the same damn transgressions??
My dumb ass didn't realize at the time that the cult was simply probing me to build a dossier they could use to blackmail me in the future. Thank God I never did FPRD. That shit would have surely driven me stark raving mad. That, or I would have wound up strangling someone.
But yeah, different people got different things out of their association with the tech and the cult itself. Some good, some bad, some totally tragic.
As with so much of the tech of Scientology, touch assists have been over-promoted as to their value and workability. While I believe the technique does put a person in better communication with their body, I don't believe that they induce healing by, and of themselves.I also don't recall any wins from receiving touch assists, but did seem to get good results consistently from delivering them.
After studying some scientific literature on the placebo effect and how best to invoke it I realized that I was excellent at doing just that, and am confident that that IS how I got my results.
Real healing is accomplished through improving the condition of a host of various physical and spiritual factors such as: sleep/rest, nutrition, environment, external stresses, internal stresses, immune system, personal relations, personal outlook, body toxicity, body pH, general health, microbiological environment, system integrity, medicines, medical procedures, prior treatments, and last but not least, the bedside manner of care-givers.
That mirrors my experiences with touch assist tech and chiropractic therapy....And chiropractic treatment for my old back injury. A touch assist didn't help at all.
"In the zone" regarding physical activity happened with me only once, playing darts. Interesting, because alcohol was involved too. Now, I've drunk alcohol while playing darts many other times, but the phenomenon didn't repeat.Talking about "WINS FROM SCIENTOLOGY", I am reminded of a time I was in Scientology and went out with friends bowling. I have only bowled a few times as a kid and have no idea how to bowl, never did. I sometimes luckily hit a strike or spare but virtually everything I do is fundamentally wrong.
Bunch of Scientologists now bowling. I started bowling strikes! And spares! Nearly 200 score! WTF???
The ball felt really tiny in my hand and I was (for unknown reasons) "in the zone". It was simple to control the ball and put it exactly where i wanted. My form was still abominably wrong (e.g. no spin on the ball) but i could at least "AIM" it and hit was i was aiming at.