Kicked The Cult In 2012. Still Decompressing And Finding MY Way.

[strativarius]

Clear: Noun. Definition: 'A non-existent and therefore unattainable state, the pursuit of which has cost a lot of genuine and sincere people a lot of money.'

... and has caused others (including myself) to enter into a self-delusional condition which in some cases can be permanent.

 

[JustSheila]

I attested natural clear. I guess because I disagreed that the bank exists for a majority of people and I said, "I don't have a bank." At the time, I thought there might be a few very messed up people who could have something like that but that most people didn't. I knew I didn't and had the big F/N and all that saying it, too.

Most clears attested to past life or natural clear. My clear number was 25,138 in 1981 or so and 2 out of 3 of that number were natural or past life clears and back then, some 90% of those clear attests were adults, too, so those numbers don't compute. I worked at AOLA, btw.

It occurred to me that all those claimed past life and natural clears I saw in folders never described what life was like before they went past life clear. So I think it was more of a "I don't have a reactive mind like Ron described" sort of thing and finding a way to attest to that. When you're having clear pushed on you and the dangers and horrors of the reactive mind, etc., that would be a relief to anyone.

The reactive mind as L Ron describes is just plain wrong. We have a subconscious, but it doesn't work like that.

 

[strativarius]

I attested natural clear. I guess because I disagreed that the bank exists for a majority of people and I said, "I don't have a bank." At the time, I thought there might be a few very messed up people who could have something like that but that most people didn't. I knew I didn't and had the big F/N and all that saying it, too.

Most clears attested to past life or natural clear. My clear number was 25,138 in 1981 or so and 2 out of 3 of that number were natural or past life clears and back then, some 90% of those clear attests were adults, too, so those numbers don't compute. I worked at AOLA, btw.

It occurred to me that all those claimed past life and natural clears I saw in folders never described what life was like before they went past life clear. So I think it was more of a "I don't have a reactive mind like Ron described" sort of thing and finding a way to attest to that. When you're having clear pushed on you and the dangers and horrors of the reactive mind, etc., that would be a relief to anyone.

The reactive mind as L Ron describes is just plain wrong. We have a subconscious, but it doesn't work like that.

Paul or somebody else could put me straight if I'm wrong, but in the late sixties and early seventies I don't think there was such a thing as 'past life clear' or 'natural clear'. I think there might have been 'theta clear' and 'keyed out clear' whatever they were. I did the R6 clearing course in 1970 and my clear number is 24**.

 

[JustSheila]

Paul or somebody else could put me straight if I'm wrong, but in the late sixties and early seventies I don't think there was such a thing as 'past life clear' or 'natural clear'. I think there might have been 'theta clear' and 'keyed out clear' whatever they were. I did the R6 clearing course in 1970 and my clear number is 24**.

Yup, you're right. I'm pretty sure Veda already documented how they came up with past life clear and natural clear to try to get people excited and interested again. Someone here documented it, anyway. I think they came up with it in the late 70s or early 80s.

So yeh, in 1970, there was only 2400 or so declared clears, yet by the early 80s there are 25,000 plus and 2 out of 3 of those were past life or natural clears. The numbers don't work.

There were about a thousand who were Jesus Christ, Mary Magdalene, Gautama Buddha (until L Ron decided that was him) and a slew of other famous people. I don't remember a lot of people claiming to be less popular people like Genghis Khan in a past life, though.

 

[JustSheila]

Oh look! There's a quiz that will figure out which villain you were in a past life!
https://play.howstuffworks.com/quiz/which-ancient-villain-were-you-a-life

I was Genghis Khan, so there you go! * That just proves I've always been an SP after all, and anyone who takes the quiz always was, too!

*It's pretty easy to answer the questions so it comes up with that.

You got:
Genghis Khan
You are the vengeful and very cruel Genghis Khan of the Mongolian Empire. This man is responsible for killing around 700,000 people in one massacre alone. He did things like use people as human shields, make his men drink horse blood when the water ran out and poured melted metal into people's orifices. Altogether, Genghis (or should we replace that with your name?) and his goons killed between 20 to 60 million people!

And if a natural clear could do that, what could an OT do??

 

[Voodoo]

This kind of "win" has always bothered me. I don't dispute that you believe you had this benefit from Scientology auditing, but I do dispute your labeling it "Clear".

If you didn't get the results that Hubbard promises for Clear, then you didn't get something that should be labeled "Clear". It may have been wonderful and I would never argue with you about that.

But if you use Hubbard's terminology and labels, and then say "I didn't get what Hubbard describes", it seems quite disingenuous to claim you "attained Clear".

Call it something else. Hubbard promises "Clear" with specific abilities. However wonderful the state you achieved was, it wasn't what Hubbard labeled "Clear". I think the distinction is important.

Hubbard lied about the gains of Clear, but the state is quite real. It simply isn't what he claimed it to be.

He invented the term, but not the technology, so who cares what overblown claims he made about it? It never belonged to him. He was just a very bright guy who discovered some beneficial therapies and cobbled them together under one name, with new labels and technical jargon. John McMasters said that LRH had less command over the subject than many of the auditors he trained.

In fact, most of Hubbard's contributions to the subject were disastrous. Think OT levels, implants, draconian 'ethics' policies, the G.O., the Sea Org, crush regging, and the us-vs-them, anti-psych, anti-press mentality.

Frankly, after about 1955, he was tapped out for new and better tech. Everything beneficial and workable from that point forward, was brought to him by others, which he then incorporated into Scientology.

I don't give two shits about his labels and technical descriptions of the techniques he stole. I'd rather thank those who actually developed the techniques that enabled me to gain a very new and lasting state of being.

 

[JustSheila]

Hubbard lied about the gains of Clear, but the state is quite real. It simply isn't what he claimed it to be.

He invented the term, but not the technology, so who cares what overblown claims he made about it? It never belonged to him. He was just a very bright guy who discovered some beneficial therapies and cobbled them together under one name, with new labels and technical jargon. John McMasters said that LRH had less command over the subject than many of the auditors he trained.

In fact, most of Hubbard's contributions to the subject were disastrous. Think OT levels, implants, draconian 'ethics' policies, the G.O., the Sea Org, crush regging, and the us-vs-them, anti-psych, anti-press mentality.

Frankly, after about 1955, he was tapped out for new and better tech. Everything beneficial and workable from that point forward, was brought to him by others, which he then incorporated into Scientology.

I don't give two shits about his labels and technical descriptions of the techniques he stole. I'd rather thank those who actually developed the techniques that enabled me to gain a very new and lasting state of being.

Voodoo, you apparently got something out of it.

You attested to past life clear, but achieved the state last lifetime. Do you believe you had a reactive mind all the way up until last lifetime?

If so, weren't your biggest gains last lifetime, rather than this lifetime?

So in Scientology THIS LIFETIME, you basically did some sort of rehab of the state rather than achieve it through Scn processes, since you were already a Clear before stepping into a Scn organization this lifetime right?

Could it be possible, Voodoo, that this state that you rehabilitated was never completely lost in the first place, that just a bunch of junk got piled on top of it and there was never a past life in Scientology after all?

Personally, I enjoy rehabbing wins of all kinds, and I've had plenty outside of Scn. Still do.

 

[Voodoo]

Voodoo, you apparently got something out of it.
You attested to past life clear, but achieved the state last lifetime. Do you believe you had a reactive mind all the way up until last lifetime?

I don't have any beliefs about the reactive mind. I just know that the auditor had me recall and review painful incidents in my past. After some weeks of 'auditing' I got up out of my hospital bed and walked (on crutches) to a nice yard out back, which was a bit of a garden spot surrounded by thick trees. I remember breathing in the sweet air and looking up at a picture perfect sky and thinking, "I'm not just a new man. I'm a new kind of man."

If so, weren't your biggest gains last lifetime, rather than this lifetime?

I suppose you could say so, but I never spent any time in auditing looking for memories between going Clear and birth this lifetime (which is something else I remember vividly). I have no idea what sort of life I lived after receiving that 'auditing'.

Thing is, though, if the state is stable, a person should always get the same degree of wins in life - with one caveat. Once a person passes over into another life, there's a huge mass of forgetfulness that obscures their prior memories and squelches their Clear state (if they've had that auditing). At least that's true in my experience.

So in Scientology THIS LIFETIME, you basically did some sort of rehab of the state rather than achieve it through Scn processes, since you were already a Clear before stepping into a Scn organization this lifetime right?

That's right.

Could it be possible, Voodoo, that this state that you rehabilitated was never completely lost in the first place, that just a bunch of junk got piled on top of it and there was never a past life in Scientology after all?

That's exactly how I see it, except for the last part. There wasn't any Scientology when I was audited to Clear. There wasn't even a name for the therapy I was receiving, as far as I knew. The auditor presented himself as someone learned in therapeutic techniques which could help relieve the mental pain and anguish we wounded were suffering. I thought, "Why not. No one else around this joint seems to care about the crazy in our heads."

That was my only contact (that I know of) with Scientology last lifetime.

 

[JustSheila]

I don't have any beliefs about the reactive mind. I just know that the auditor had me recall and review painful incidents in my past. After some weeks of 'auditing' I got up out of my hospital bed and walked (on crutches) to a nice yard out back, which was a bit of a garden spot surrounded by thick trees. I remember breathing in the sweet air and looking up at a picture perfect sky and thinking, "I'm not just a new man. I'm a new kind of man."


I suppose you could say so, but I never spent any time in auditing looking for memories between going Clear and birth this lifetime (which is something else I remember vividly). I have no idea what sort of life I lived after receiving that 'auditing'.

Thing is, though, if the state is stable, a person should always get the same degree of wins in life - with one caveat. Once a person passes over into another life, there's a huge mass of forgetfulness that obscures their prior memories and squelches their Clear state (if they've had that auditing). At least that's true in my experience.


That's right.


That's exactly how I see it, except for the last part. There wasn't any Scientology when I was audited to Clear. There wasn't even a name for the therapy I was receiving, as far as I knew. The auditor presented himself as someone learned in therapeutic techniques which could help relieve the mental pain and anguish we wounded were suffering. I thought, "Why not. No one else around this joint seems to care about the crazy in our heads."

That was my only contact (that I know of) with Scientology last lifetime.

Thank you for your very honest, detailed answer. I could picture that little garden and your feeling of peace.

There is a concept I'd like to share with you, but it is difficult to express, so please bear with me.

I think any approach to our spiritual nature requires a framework, but the framework itself is not a truth. It might even be completely fabricated, but without it, our minds cannot make the connections to our spiritual nature. That sounds so esoteric, I'd like to give a real life, non-spiritual example of the mind's framework and connection to show what I mean:

Children under the age of 5 can easily learn languages. At that age, they create and develop new frameworks by exposure to languages and use those frameworks later in life to learn the intricacies of languages. Adults without any prior foreign language exposure have a much harder time because they do not have these frameworks and have to develop them at an age where their thinking patterns are far more concrete.

I don't question or deny the things that you have achieved and I think it would be a very bad thing to try to destroy the positive things in a person's life in an effort to eliminate the bad. I just think that you could have used any religious or spiritual framework to achieve the same thing, because the source of the healing was you and you would have found a way, one way or the other, because that's what people do. Scientology was not significant to your achievements. You would have had them anyway.

 

[JustSheila]

@Voodoo

On a lighter note and totally unrelated -

Last night I was out with the wild gals from Atlanta. We threw axes at targets, rolled along downtown in the Pints and Pedals bicycle bar, visited tequila and oyster bars and played our music and sang loudly, yelling at everyone on the streets and telling stories afterward. Good fun! (but I have a headache, heh)

Anyhoo - you said you were from Texas?

Last night, one somewhat inubriated woman was telling me about a Texan she met and his little hat tip saying, "Ma'am" and how those are the real men and the way they walk, and the confidence, and the... the... the...

Heh. She was completely infatuated.

I gotta admit, that hat tip and "Ma'am" thing... It melts me every time.

 

[Voodoo]

Thank you for your very honest, detailed answer. I could picture that little garden and your feeling of peace.

There is a concept I'd like to share with you, but it is difficult to express, so please bear with me.

I think any approach to our spiritual nature requires a framework, but the framework itself is not a truth. It might even be completely fabricated, but without it, our minds cannot make the connections to our spiritual nature. That sounds so esoteric, I'd like to give a real life, non-spiritual example of the mind's framework and connection to show what I mean:

Children under the age of 5 can easily learn languages. At that age, they create and develop new frameworks by exposure to languages and use those frameworks later in life to learn the intricacies of languages. Adults without any prior foreign language exposure have a much harder time because they do not have these frameworks and have to develop them at an age where their thinking patterns are far more concrete.

I don't question or deny the things that you have achieved and I think it would be a very bad thing to try to destroy the positive things in a person's life in an effort to eliminate the bad. I just think that you could have used any religious or spiritual framework to achieve the same thing, because the source of the healing was you and you would have found a way, one way or the other, because that's what people do. Scientology was not significant to your achievements. You would have had them anyway.

Those are some beautiful thoughts, Sheila. Thank you for expressing them.

 

[Voodoo]

@Voodoo

Anyhoo - you said you were from Texas?

Last night, one somewhat inubriated woman was telling me about a Texan she met and his little hat tip saying, "Ma'am" and how those are the real men and the way they walk, and the confidence, and the... the... the...

Heh. She was completely infatuated.

I gotta admit, that hat tip and "Ma'am" thing... It melts me every time.

If you meet someone from Texas who talks that way, rest assured you're talking to the genuine article. Those people are the salt of the earth.

So many people are coming to Texas from everywhere, that we're losing the "Texas" in Texas. Same for all the southern states.