Know where I can find Hubbard's Class VIII lecture?

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
DS,Laurence Gardner does not put the truth in his books! Either he himself has been misindocrinated or is economical with the truth and chooses to promote a watered down story on the grail etc and has decided that the cattle deserve no more. Gardner has many group connections which would conflict with him telling the truth- same as the Nexus crowd.
Interesting you should say that.What data do you have that suggests Gardner and the "Nexus crowd" are as you describe.You surely must be high in the Knights Templar Order to be able to make such comments.Please share your knowledge with us.DS
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
DS,

Laurence Gardner does not put the truth in his books! Either he himself has been misindocrinated or is economical with the truth and chooses to promote a watered down story on the grail etc and has decided that the cattle deserve no more. Gardner has many group connections which would conflict with him telling the truth- same as the Nexus crowd.

Interesting you should say that.What data do you have that suggests Gardner and the "Nexus crowd" are as you describe.You surely must be high in the Knights Templar Order to be able to make such comments.Please share your knowledge with us.DS

I had similar thoughts, DartSmohen.

Vittorio, can you tell us who can be trusted with more 'correct' data, if Gardner and the Nexus crowd can't be.

Thank you.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Irv Williams was on the first Class 8 course, he recounted his experience in this 1986 interview:

"There were three major Sea Org missions to St. Hill during late '67 and '68.

...

"Everyone was jumping to. I mean, anyone who looked cross-eyed would have been declared suppressive immediately.

"And here are these people running around wearing gestapo boots, and punishing and threatening. And it was being done at his [Hubbard's] direct order.

"It was very grim.

...

"The original Class 8 Course... September or October 1968, I think.

...

"So for the next three weeks we were on course.

"We didn't see LRH except each evening when he'd lecture... And each evening we had to march in and stand at attention. And then he would come in and sit down and give a lecture, which was recorded.

"It was a very grueling course. Every morning we arose at 6 and put on these boiler suits, and we had to wear these rough thick hemp nooses around our necks - because we weren't fit to wear a lanyard. So we wore these things which were suggestive of a hangman's noose around our necks.

"Then we had to muster on deck. And we'd all march in formation to the deck, the lower deck, closest to the sea. About twenty feet above sea level. Then our punishment would be read out.

"Those who were judged by LRH to have been non standard in their auditing were thrown overboard on his written instructions... It was a long drop on a cold chilly morning.

...

"All during our time there we were kept away from LRH. His cabin and his working area were on the upper deck. And... we were absolutely forbidden to ever go on that deck. We were forbidden to make any noise when we were moving around because we could be disturbing him.

"When he came in for lectures, we came in first. We would go in and sit. We'd wait a while. Then he would come in preceded by a Sea Org officer and followed by a Sea Org officer. And we would all stand to attention.

"He made very sure there was never an opportunity for any of us to ever ask him a question, discuss anything with him. Not even say, 'Hi'. It was very definite that it was one way communication. He was going to say things to us and we were going listen. Looking at it now, it had an hypnotic effect.

"He would sit down, then we would sit down. He'd speak for an hour or so. And we would applaud for a long time. Then he would get up and leave while we all stood at attention, and then we would all be marched back - and this was late at night, about ten o'clock.

"After we finished the class, we had a party on ship. And we were allowed to talk to each other and wear civilian cloths and, about half way though the party, he came in and actually mingled, but very briefly - five minutes at the most. He allowed each of us to say something to him. I said something like, 'Thank you very much for teaching us this wonderful material'. And he said, 'I'm glad you like it'. Then he'd go on to somebody else. It was like a little reception line thing. It was very very controlled communication.

"During the first lecture he was livid, and pounding the table with his fist. But I was so in awe that I couldn't evaluate him. We were all in awe. There was such an imposed attitude. You know, when you talk to the king, he may be friendly but he's always the king. You never forget that he's the king. He may be very gracious to you, but that's because he's such a wonderful person.

"He was this god, this greater than life person, and he was almost unconfrontable from that perspective.

"He could at a whim destroy my life."

Excerpted from the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' by Bent Corydon, himself a graduate of the first land based Class 8 course (first tape playing on land) in Edinburgh, Scotland.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1090

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=61047&postcount=19

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=68098&postcount=5
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Irv Williams was on the first Class 8 course, he recounted his experience in this 1986 interview:

"There were three major Sea Org missions to St. Hill during late '67 and '68.

...

"Everyone was jumping to. I mean, anyone who looked cross-eyed would have been declared suppressive immediately.

"And here are these people running around wearing gestapo boots, and punishing and threatening. And it was being done at his [Hubbard's] direct order.

"It was very grim.

...

"The original Class 8 Course... September or October 1968, I think.

...

"So for the next three weeks we were on course.

"We didn't see LRH except each evening when he'd lecture... And each evening we had to march in and stand at attention. And then he would come in and sit down and give a lecture, which was recorded.

"It was a very grueling course. Every morning we arose at 6 and put on these boiler suits, and we had to wear these rough thick hemp nooses around our necks - because we weren't fit to wear a lanyard. So we wore these things which were suggestive of a hangman's noose around our necks.

"Then we had to muster on deck. And we'd all march in formation to the deck, the lower deck, closest to the sea. About twenty feet above sea level. Then our punishment would be read out.

"Those who were judged by LRH to have been non standard in their auditing were thrown overboard on his written instructions... It was a long drop on a cold chilly morning.

...

"All during our time there we were kept away from LRH. His cabin and his working area were on the upper deck. And... we were absolutely forbidden to ever go on that deck. We were forbidden to make any noise when we were moving around because we could be disturbing him.

"When he came in for lectures, we came in first. We would go in and sit. We'd wait a while. Then he would come in preceded by a Sea Org officer and followed by a Sea Org officer. And we would all stand to attention.

"He made very sure there was never an opportunity for any of us to ever ask him a question, discuss anything with him. Not even say, 'Hi'. It was very definite that it was one way communication. He was going to say things to us and we were going listen. Looking at it now, it had an hypnotic effect.

"He would sit down, then we would sit down. He'd speak for an hour or so. And we would applaud for a long time. Then he would get up and leave while we all stood at attention, and then we would all be marched back - and this was late at night, about ten o'clock.

"After we finished the class, we had a party on ship. And we were allowed to talk to each other and wear civilian cloths and, about half way though the party, he came in and actually mingled, but very briefly - five minutes at the most. He allowed each of us to say something to him. I said something like, 'Thank you very much for teaching us this wonderful material'. And he said, 'I'm glad you like it'. Then he'd go on to somebody else. It was like a little reception line thing. It was very very controlled communication.

"During the first lecture he was livid, and pounding the table with his fist. But I was so in awe that I couldn't evaluate him. We were all in awe. There was such an imposed attitude. You know, when you talk to the king, he may be friendly but he's always the king. You never forget that he's the king. He may be very gracious to you, but that's because he's such a wonderful person.

"He was this god, this greater than life person, and he was almost unconfrontable from that perspective.

"He could at a whim destroy my life."

Excerpted from the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' by Bent Corydon, himself a graduate of the first land based Class 8 course (first tape playing on land) in Edinburgh, Scotland.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1090

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=61047&postcount=19

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=68098&postcount=5

Hullo Veda,

.



I was there when the mission was prepared and sent from Las Palmas to WW at St Hill. The problem was that we operated at such a high action and tone level that so the mission arrived at WW, those guys simply did not know what hit them. (They didn't wear Jack Boots). My mother was on staff there at the time and I know from her perspective what they experienced together with the observations of the mission on their return.

Letting that mission loose, with complete Ethics powers, using the level of attention and ability we had in the Sea Project, would have been a complete overwhelm. It was the first mission we had sent out and we learned from our mistake.

There is no doubt that the students who were summoned to the ship felt highly intimidated. I have covered this in my thread The Overboard Ceremony.

Hubbard was steadily going bonkers through this period. Making the students wear green overalls and a rope cable tow around their neck (a masonic symbol) and brown open-toed sandals.

It was normal etiquette for the crew to stand when he came into the room, so it is expected the students all stood as well.

Yes, the students were kept to their own area, not so much to prevent them from disturbing Hubbard, but more to prevent them from getting under our feet or getting hurt.



DS
 
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DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
I have not expressed any opinions on Gardner and the 'Nexus crowd'.

You're confusing me with someone else.

Irv Williams was one of many dozens of people interviewed for 'Messiah or Madman?', including John McMaster, John Sanborn, and others. Not interested in entering into squabbles over details about whether boots were worn, or whether someone was memorable.

My apologies, I was having a "senior moment". I clicked on the wrong file. It was Vittorio I should have replied to.

DS
 
Yes, the students were kept to their own area, not so much to prevent them from disturbing Hubbard, but more to prevent them from getting under our feet or getting hurt.
DS

A sensible precaution. I'd have loved to have done the same back in the days when I worked for Scripps' Research and had "scientifics" running around the ship like rats in a maze.

Those who are not part of the ship's crew are ALWAYS a problem at sea. You couldn't PAY me to take a "luxury cruise".


Mark A. Baker
 
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