L Ron Hubbard and Aleistar Crowley - differences ~ similarities

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Here is information about Aleistar Crowley (L Ron Hubbard's mentor) from US Grand Lodge, OTO. I had never heard of him or OTO and Thelema prior to being part of the Scientology cult without knowing I was involved in a cult.

Notice the "military type uniform Crowley wears! Lots of symbols...check out the rosy cross and compare it to the scientology cross. Hubbard keeps the members from really looking at the symbols in Scientology by telling them it is "low toned"~! Symbols are very important - they are communicating something - so lurkers - do your homework!

[h=1]Aleister Crowley[/h]
by Hymenaeus Beta XII°
baphomet1.jpg
Edward Alexander Crowley was born in Leamington Spa in 1875. He was educated at Malvern and Trinity College, Cambridge, where he changed his name to Aleister. He was a lyric and dramatic poet, with several dozen books to his credit, including a collaboration with Auguste Rodin. He is anthologized in The Oxford Book of English Mystical Verse.

Crowley was natural polymath, and made a name for himself as a poet, novelist, journalist, mountaineer, explorer, chess player, graphic designer, drug experimenter, prankster, lover of women, beloved of men, yogi, magician, prophet, early freedom fighter, human rights activist, philosopher, and artist. He has been compared to Sir Richard Burton, and Crowley is probably best known today as the author of the twentieth century's most influential textbooks on occultism, and as the first Englishman to found a religion—Thelema—which is today a recognized faith around the world.

I believe Hubbard bought st hill in england because crowley had his castle in Scotland.

Now if you read his biography - you will see where Hubbard got some of his idea's for his religion - Scientology. It is pretty astounding to read the similarities between Hubbard's guru - Aleistar Crowley and the ole Turd! It is all there...unraveled before your eyes!!

What are the differences - Crowley at least admitted to his drug use and that his "religion is in the realm of the occult". Hubbard was more sinister and deceitful - hollow promises and deceptive in exchange for tons of cold hard cash and slave labor!

Aleistar Crowley has a facebook page with 66,000 likes - L Ron Hubbard - 7,700 likes (all staff and sea org plus the public who liked him before they figured out they were conned)

Crowley's crazy cult still has followers because he did not deceive them - he tells them what they are getting into. Hubbard has enforced followers - and I would imagine will dwindle down to nothing very soon due to the lies, deceit and criminal activities this cult is into!!
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Crowley's crazy cult still has followers because he did not deceive them - he tells them what they are getting into.
Hubbard has enforced followers - and I would imagine will dwindle down to nothing very soon due to the lies, deceit and criminal activities this cult is into!!

Such a great point, Idle! Thank you.

Post THAT, Marty. You can do it. :)
 

JoeLarabell

Patron
The story I heard (from the OTO side of the connection) is that Hubbard never met Crowley. He hung out at Thelema Lodge in Pasadena for a while when Jack Parsons was the Lodge Master. Hubbard served as scribe (the guy who writes stuff down) for Jack's invocation of Babalon. Soon after that Hubbard conned Parsons out of a significant amount of cash under the pretense of buying a ship and reselling it for a profit. Jack never saw Hubbard or the money again. LRH Jr. claims (in Bent's book) that his father was studying all sorts of Crowley material around the time of the PDC course. Crowley called both Hubbard and Parson "louts" in a letter to Wilfred Smith just after Hubbard took off with Jack's money so I really doubt there was ever any sort of official student-teacher relationship there and there's no evidence that the two ever met.

Here's an interesting data point. A link elsewhere on this forum led me to the website of John Rafanello (I did some of his weekend Disneyland seminars back when he was still in good standing with the Co$). Raf quoted a definition of "Standard Tech", apparently from LRH, which goes something like: "A definite level of quality proper and adequate for a specific purpose." Crowley's said (of magick): "any required change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner, through the proper medium to the proper object." Not quite the same but close enough to believe LRH, assuming he actually wrote that definition of ST, was channeling Crowley at the time.
 

Teanntás

Silver Meritorious Patron
From the Book of Lies

BLACKTHORN

The price of existence is eternal warfare.(*1)
Speaking as an Irishman, I prefer to say: The price
of eternal warfare is existence.
And melancholy as existence is, the price is well
worth paying.
Is there a Government? then I'm agin it! To Hell
with the bloody English!
"O FRATER PERDURABO, how unworthy are
these sentiments!"
"D'ye want a clip on the jaw?"(*2)

COMMENTARY (Π)

Frater P. continues the subject of Chapter 79.
He pictures himself as a vigorous, reckless, almost
rowdy Irishman. He is no thin-lipped prude, to seek
salvation in unmanly self-abnegation; no Creeping
Jesus, to slink through existence to the tune of the Dead
March in Saul; no Cremerian Callus to warehouse his
semen in his cerebellum.
"New Thoughtist" is only Old Eunuch writ small.
Paragraph 2 gives the very struggle for life, which
disheartens modern thinkers, as a good enough reason for
existence.
Paragraph 5 expresses the sorrow of the modern
thinker, and paragraph 6 Frater P.'s suggestion for
replying to such critics.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/lies/83.htm

(No billion year contracts :) )
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you look at OTO and Thelema - you will found where Hubbard got many of his "ideas" - mix it in with his military background (Sea Org and the military lifestyle and uniforms and SIR) add some "pinks and blues" and you get "if you want to make a lot of money, son - start a religion". Hubbard got stuff from the Bible and many other sources - the study tech came from some educators that were in scientology at the time.

The Book of Law: "Do What Thou Wilt" - and Hubbard did what his "wilt"/will was- he started a religion and then told the members that the members wanted to call it a religion (but he left out the names of those members that wanted to call it a religion) - and his "religion" promises you that you will be more able to "do what you wilt" however what you want is a counter intention to Hubbard's affirmations hence - the policies and TEK - to get you on board to not criticize Hubbard or his religion etc...Hubbard could not stand to be criticized!

To be a member of OTO is like $42 / year to cover costs to "upper management". How on earth did that fat turd get his fees so high and then get people to pay them? LIES, of course..."saving the planet" "front groups that save the planet" "scientology expansion to save the planet" ...more lies! At least his mentor religion does not bilk people out of their last dime!

I tried to find blogs and complaints about OTO and Thelema - NONE!! If you google Scientology - there is so much on the net it would take 76 trillion years to read all the complaints and devastating stories from ex members....

I can't find any BLOGS from the 8 million :whistling:members of Scientology raving about how wonderful Scientology is. Oh, the occasional person who downloaded their nanny cam - or whatever you call it - the disk one put on one's computer that would prohibit that computer from finding any "entheta" about the cult - with a waxing review - but most staff and public do not want the world to know they are scientologist's - they are embarrassed.

Hubbard was insane and he was evil! He put on quite a show and when he could not hide his evilness any longer - he went into hiding but the group tells you he was off doing his research..:whistling:

This is when the group should have let the cult die - and those who knew hubbard was insane (david miscavige) needed to leave Scientology and expose the truth. There is your basic on the chain...David Miscavige knew the turd was nuts and he with held it so that he could be the rulah of a very profitable cult!
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
As an aside, "Diary of a Drug Fiend" is kind of interesting. It's like "Trainspotting" circa 1922.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
The FEBC students who boarded the Apollo in 1971 were instructed, if asked, to say that they were students of OTO. Operation Transport Org.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Here some more similarities:
Scientology / OTO or Thelema
OT - OTO
Thetan - Thelema
Postulate - Postulate
Scientology Cross / Rosy Cross

images
Rosy Cross>
images


Where did the "cross" originate from? Jesus Christ dieing on the cross. Both symbols are crossing out the cross.

images


Any Christians out there doing Scientology? did they tell you "we don't get into who GOD is - we just help you find out for yourself" - take a look at their symbol. If you ask a staffer what the cross represents - they will tell you the 8 dynamics - :whistling: riiiiiiigggggghhhhhht!!

Here is one difference: the cost ~
$5,000 Lifetime membership to IAS to obtain 10% discount off of "services / $42/year

The IAS for starters then add on your books, lectures, auditing, courses, pamphlets, buying books a second time due to es pee editors, buying books a 3rd time to es pee editors, buying lectures a 2nd time due to es pee psychs that got into production, - just look at your financial records to see what Scientology cost you. Now look at your "wins" - was it worth the financial investment - now where does your money go....well, look at this:

TomCruiseDavidMiscavige-thumb-250x175.jpg

David Miscavige has custom motorcycle, personal chefs, tanning booth, personal trainer, John Lobb shoes, Italian suits custom made, Range Rover, BMW and receives at least $ six figures annual income not to mention full access to all bank accounts for every Org on this planet. Miscavige likes to harass people with your donations and fight lawsuits!

Check this out:

1-045e90dd6d.jpg


Well, he likes lawsuits and has plenty of the IAS donos on hand to fight people who rail against the abuses and fraud. Here is the latest lawsuit where a man named Luis Garcia is suing The Church of Scientology for FRAUD - telling members they were using IAS donations for humanitarian causes and they were not - and bilking $230 million dollars for a super power building promising to open 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, etc..............2,013!!

There are no lawsuits against OTO or Thelma regarding fraud!
 
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SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Where did the "cross" originate from? Jesus Christ dieing on the cross. Both symbols are crossing out the cross.

Any Christians out there doing Scientology? did they tell you "we don't get into who GOD is - we just help you find out for yourself" - take a look at their symbol. If you ask a staffer what the cross represents - they will tell you the 8 dynamics - :whistling: riiiiiiigggggghhhhhht!!

I'm not sure that is actually the origin of the Rosy Cross.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_Cross

Aleister Crowley said:
THE ROSICRUCIAN

I see the centuries wax and wane.
I know their mystery of pain,
The secrets of the living fire,
The key of life: I live: I reign:
For I am master of desire.

Silent, I pass amid the folk.
Caught in its mesh, slaves to its yoke.
Silent, unknown, I work and will
Redemption, godhead master-stroke,
And breaking of the wands of ill.

No man hath seen beneath my brows
Eternity's exultant house.
No man hath noted in my brain
The knowledge of my mystic spouse.
I watch the centuries wax and wane.
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
It's not. The cross itself, as a symbol, predates Jesus Christ. The Rosy Cross also predates Crowley.

It pre-dates Crowley, though I'm not sure it actually pre-dates Christianity. The Rosicrucians claimed to be an ancient secret society but there is no evidence of them existing before the renaissance. It's equivalent to the Freemasons claiming to go back to the temple of Solomon.
 

JoeLarabell

Patron
It pre-dates Crowley, though I'm not sure it actually pre-dates Christianity.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The *cross itself*, as a symbol, predates Christianity (http://www.designboom.com/history/cross_2.html). The colorful one that the Golden Dawn used was taken from the Cipher Manuscripts from which the Golden Dawn was derived (http://hermetic.com/gdlibrary/cipher/cipher48.htm). The Cipher Manuscripts were supposedly written in the early 19th century but there are those who believe they were created by Mathers and Westcott to lend an air of legitimacy to their fledgling Order.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Aleister Crowley was a very wealthy man who was contrary about religion since he was a teenager. He was brought up in a very religious Christian home and did not like it at all.

Crowley inherited 3 fortunes and spent lavishly. When he was rich, during the first couple decades of his occult practice, he refused to take money for what he did, saying that this was against what a practitioner is supposed to do. When he ran through his money, he started bilking the faithful. He sent a ransom note to a friend's mom alleging that the friend was kidnapped and he wanted, I think it was, 500 pounds.

Crowley spent years learning occultism and sorcery and was said to have gotten very far in those disciplines. He had one or two very close friends. For years he was nice to them but he eventually betrayed them and drove them away.

Crowley is linked to at least one suspicious death, in Greece. Where he stopped an adherent from getting medical care.

At the end of his life, Crowley was sufficiently degraded as to just start banging women in front of company who'd come to visit.

So at the beginning, I would say the two men were pretty different. Later, though, you can see some similarities. I think the keyword is "irresponsibility".
 
They were both absolute megalomaniacs with utter contempt for the human race, yet they each considered themselves the greatest of 'humanitarians'. Both of them were saner at the beginning of their lives than they were toward the end. And they both had stumbled on 'higher' truths that, in both their bodies of work, were almost impossible to access because of the deluge of insane drivel that they (the truths) were buried in.

The main differences I can see are that Crowley liked to climb mountains and Hubbard liked to sail the seas. Also, Crowley liked to shock people, so he was very open with his depravity, while Hubbard was a lot more secretive about his, as far as the general public goes anyway.

Probably this piece is well known by everyone around here, but it is one of my favorite comparisons of the two: http://www.mt.net/~watcher/crowleyhubbard.html
 
The story I heard (from the OTO side of the connection) is that Hubbard never met Crowley. He hung out at Thelema Lodge in Pasadena for a while when Jack Parsons was the Lodge Master. Hubbard served as scribe (the guy who writes stuff down) for Jack's invocation of Babalon. Soon after that Hubbard conned Parsons out of a significant amount of cash under the pretense of buying a ship and reselling it for a profit. Jack never saw Hubbard or the money again. LRH Jr. claims (in Bent's book) that his father was studying all sorts of Crowley material around the time of the PDC course. Crowley called both Hubbard and Parson "louts" in a letter to Wilfred Smith just after Hubbard took off with Jack's money so I really doubt there was ever any sort of official student-teacher relationship there and there's no evidence that the two ever met.

Here's an interesting data point. A link elsewhere on this forum led me to the website of John Rafanello (I did some of his weekend Disneyland seminars back when he was still in good standing with the Co$). Raf quoted a definition of "Standard Tech", apparently from LRH, which goes something like: "A definite level of quality proper and adequate for a specific purpose." Crowley's said (of magick): "any required change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner, through the proper medium to the proper object." Not quite the same but close enough to believe LRH, assuming he actually wrote that definition of ST, was channeling Crowley at the time.

Man, I feel like a blind fool... I knew LRH was channeling a lot of his material, but I just thought he admired Crowley, it never occurred to me he could be channeling him! That makes perfect sense!!!
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
It pre-dates Crowley, though I'm not sure it actually pre-dates Christianity. The Rosicrucians claimed to be an ancient secret society but there is no evidence of them existing before the renaissance. It's equivalent to the Freemasons claiming to go back to the temple of Solomon.

Hast read the book "Born in Blood"?
 
They were both absolute megalomaniacs with utter contempt for the human race, yet they each considered themselves the greatest of 'humanitarians'. Both of them were saner at the beginning of their lives than they were toward the end. And they both had stumbled on 'higher' truths that, in both their bodies of work, were almost impossible to access because of the deluge of insane drivel that they (the truths) were buried in.

The main differences I can see are that Crowley liked to climb mountains and Hubbard liked to sail the seas. Also, Crowley liked to shock people, so he was very open with his depravity, while Hubbard was a lot more secretive about his, as far as the general public goes anyway.

Probably this piece is well known by everyone around here, but it is one of my favorite comparisons of the two: http://www.mt.net/~watcher/crowleyhubbard.html

i studied at CLIV orgs

the materials at that level were not so badly buried
 
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