L Ron Hubbard ~ Is he coming back or not? Scientology is a FRAUD!

Spirit

just another son of God
That initial avatar course totally blew me away. it was probably partially due to total diassociation from my
life, but whoooo eeeeee, it was like a really good drug. specifically "the ultimate process", fun fun. and harry palmer got it right when he said why let hubbard give you incidents to create that you now have to pay him to run out? this is the one little fact all scientologists should know.
i hated in scientology how only an auditor could handle your case, how is that cause, in any way shape or form?

spirit, i really admire you spiritual discipline!
In Present Time,
Thank you for the compliment, but when I read it, I can not help but realize how much more disciplined I could and should be. I truly do try to put the things of the spirit first, but life just seems to keep getting in the way.

I have read over most of the original Avatar Course and the Wizards Course and have done the 'Feel it' exercises. I especially like the ones on inanimate and animate objects. I really have fun with these and have had some of those whoooo eeeeee experiences. I have not fully done the discreation processes yet, but I like Palmer's approach for identifying and taking apart the things that need to be addressed.
Step 1: Inanimate objects, locations and spaces.


Select some object, location or space that interests you.
Observe it carefully for a few seconds.

_Define_ the object by observing its periphery, edges or limits.
Identify with it and feel what it feels.

For example, if you are identifying with a stone, feel its
weight bearing down on the earth as your weight, feel its
exposed surfaces as your surfaces, feel its density as your
density. Transform the stone into you the stone. Be the stone.
(Experiment with using the stomach breathing technique described
in the "Feel It" transcript.)

Suggestions of things to experience: houses, cars, what a road
feels like, bodies of water, mountains, etc.

When you have achieved a satisfactory result, write up a brief
summary of your experience.


Step 2. Animate objects


Select an animate object, animal, plant or person, that
interests you. Observe it for a few seconds.

Define its edges, notice the actual space it occupies. Identify
with it and feel what it feels.

Example: If you choose to identify with a tree, feel its limbs
as your limbs, feel the breeze against its leaves as the breeze
against your leaves, feel the roots as your roots. Be the tree.

When you have achieved a satisfactory result, write up a brief
summary of your experience.
 
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In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
In Present Time,
Thank you for the compliment, but when I read it, I can not help but realize how much more disciplined I could and should be. I truly do try to put the things of the spirit first, but life just seems to keep getting in the way.

I have read over most of the original Avatar Course and the Wizards Course and have done the 'Feel it' exercises. I expecially like the ones on inanimate and animate objects. I really have fun with these and have had some of those whoooo eeeeee experiences. I have not fully done the discreation processes yet, but I like Palmer's approach for identifying and taking apart the things that need to be addressed.
yes, i loved this process at first. but while on the course after days (at least not years like in $cn.) i got bored with it. my masters were a male ot8 and a female psychologist. i started to protest and claim i was "over run" on the process. this is exactly why i thought the combination of the two of them was perfect. the last process on the course is the ultimate process and if all the other steps are "in" it really blows you out of your gourd. some of the people on the course with me got very little out of it, but i guess i was pretty well heeled in shifting my mental functions and perceptions around. in my book it was the best thing since sliced bread. i went on to take the masters course because i really wanted to deliver this to others. that turned out to be a ten thousand dollar nightmare. perhaps harry and avra have a perfect set up, he wanders in to speak to the crowd in dirty untied sneakers, and avra plays "bad cop" making sure the money is rolling in etc. and yes money flows uplines. ten percent which isnt too outrageous. the main rip off i saw occrring were the extreme prices for advertising in their magazines after you had taken the masters course. these ads didnt really seem to bring in any business. i had a real beef with not being able to give avatar as a gift, i was lead to believe before i took masters that i could do that, only to find you have to sign bonds promising you would never do that. a guy named eldron took them on it court and was eventually run out of the country, but they really went after him. i think we have him to thank for making the materials free. somewhere in the mass of the googles there is a write up i did for him detailing my f'ed up masters course experience. ironically enough this run in i have had of being accused of being a leak on the indy scientologist page is run by a woman named karry campbell. the fb photo also looks exactly like the same karry campbell who was a supervisor on the masters course. i was denied my masters course certification because avra (harry's wife) took an aversion to me. so, i have asked this karry campbell is she is the same woman who literally RAN away from me at the end of the avatar course when i asked her why i would not be certed. unfortunately as with most of this stuff, no matter how good it is it gets hijacked and spoiled. so here i am 20 years later trying to get some fb indie page lady to answer one question. lol. bloody hell, why didnt i just spend my time and energy making more, flipping houses or some other worthwhile endeavour? lol.
yes, spiritual discipline is kinda odd in and of itself. now that i dont really practise anything anymore my new philosophy is just keep an eye on how you get. a line from a book called blue hiways that has left me inspired for a few years now.

ps. the ultimate process is like the biggest "feel it" ever. you expand your space to achieve larger and larger feel it's... and once you have expanded all the way out to encompass all that is, the final step is to expand beyond that. so if their is an exterior state, this was it for me. i staggered out of the room in a complete state of bliss.
on the downside? well, i used to sit on my couch and do this process at night after i got my girls to sleep, gradually expanding out starting with my immediate environment. so, i was doing that one night and had only expanded as far as the park across the street... (this is eyes closed, i kid you not) i saw a black car, i remember thinking it looked like a mercedes. it had pulled to the curb across the street by the park. my attention hung up there and i didnt continue to expand my space as the process calls for because this car had caught my attention. then i heard a noise, so i dont think i was so deep in the meditative state anymore, and i saw someone dragged from the back seat of the car and thrown onto a rock at the entrance to the park, then like a jolt i heard popping sounds, but also i cant explain the feeling i got. painful, jolting, and grief stricken.
i snapped out of it, rushed to the door to look out and see a car speeding away. i dialed 9-11. the police came and a man lay dead on that rock.

anyway a yucky story. but sometimes those feel it processes go to far. i really backed away from them after that. as an empath a good day is when i don't bother feeling others. i mean even if it is my own imagination, i am probably better off just trying to keep up with myself.

i bet i am gonna delete this post, thank you emma for giving us 24 hours to do that:
 
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Spirit

just another son of God
In Present Time,
I had read the thread where you told your experience with the Palmers and how it did not turn out well. That is a bummer. I think it was on the same thread that someone stated they had told Palmer of an idea which was the Ultimate Process and that Palmer published it and took the credit for it. Never the less, I am looking forward to working myself up to it after mastering the discreation process.
 

Spirit

just another son of God
i had a real beef with not being able to give avatar as a gift, i was lead to believe before i took masters that i could do that, only to find you have to sign bonds promising you would never do that. a guy named eldron took them on it court and was eventually run out of the country, but they really went after him. i think we have him to thank for making the materials free.
I didn't know the materials were out there for free. That is good. This data will help a lot of people, if they apply it.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't know the materials were out there for free. That is good. This data will help a lot of people, if they apply it.
yes a guy named eldron put them out.
the story i told is on an old google group, or something. all the materials are out there. if this is real knowledge then most definately it should be free.
 
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Spirit

just another son of God
I can understand your apprehension after witnessing a murder during your process and the pain and emotion you felt would be a detering factor. Did you try to discreate the event?
Have you ever read TROM? It is free. I was just thinking the Timebreaking Processes of Levels 2 and 3 would help you handle the event (and any others you may encounter) and help you move on so you can continue with the Ultimate Process. However, TROM may open other doors for you (so to speak).
 
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oldtimer

Patron
:):):yes:
I lived most of my life in the New Age arena and had hit a brick wall. Was there anything more to know? NO - was the answer...that is, until I ran across a book by L Ron Hubbard! It piqued my curiosity - TRAP #1

I was "open" to the idea and what intrigued me about Scientology is that I could go into auditing and FIND THE TRUTH and solve this mystery once in for all. Have I lived before and if I had - what was I? I did the Bridge and ran "incidents" but it never proved to me anything other than I had a vivid imagination. I made it all up! No scientific proof and I did not get "case gain" from running past lives.

Side note: I did feel the powerful tormenting of evil spirits though...and I believe there are supernatural powers out there that prey on the god less. That is my opinion - don't care if anyone else believes it. Why is the death rate in Scientology so high? Why all the cancer for such a tiny group? Divorce rates - staggering? Financial ruin - straight up and vertical. You are dealing with the Occult in Scientology - and it is dangerous!!

The churches build offices in each building for L Ron Hubbard to return. The staff are now instructed to tell the new arrivals that the office is just a "memorial in honor of the founder of Scientology".

David Miscavige announced at the "Death of Ron Event" in 1986 - that L Ron Hubbard had discarded his body because he found it to impede his research. :omg:

What exactly did Miscavige mean? You go OT and then you got to get rid of the body so you "drop it". How absurd. I never got into Scientology to learn how to live outside of my body as it lay there and rot - I wanted to learn how to live inside my body and be comfortable. It never happened in Scientology - EVER! It was a constant grind, constant looking to see who is the SP, constant covert invalidation and nullification by the entire Organization! Tt was INSANE!

The old timers will remember this story about L Ron Hubbard's office. When he was alive - it was there for him to use when he came to the Org. Then - it was put in every Org after he died for him to come back to. In order to stop this crazy talk the rest of the world won't have anything to do with - the Organization gets rid of the old timers with SP Declares and shunning so they cannot "infect" the new members arriving with the what they were told BY Ron.

The Church of Scientology appeals to those who think about past lives. They are sold a Bridge and told they will know what they were in past lives - they will remember everything. They lie - there was absolutely NO PROOF of past lives. The offices can bait the past life believers though - What organization would keep an office in each morgue for a dead man if he was not coming back? It keeps the bait out there - if Ron comes back than Scientology works.
Just look at the San Fransisco Org? It went St Hill 5 years ago or so? It has NO space for the staff to eat, place their coats or even their lunch bags. But they have space for a dead man? What is the significance? This organization treats the staff like worthless garbage and if they need to eat or park a car - they are degraded somehow.

Well folks - you lurkers, OSA Agents and those in doubt - take a look around you and please tell me - Where's Ron?

Well stated--actually, even before Ron died the orgs and missions had an office for him. Obviously, even if he had come back he never would have come to visit every single Scientology organization building--it was purely an honorary thing. The irony is that even if Ron did come back and wanted to again be in Scientology (that is, if he could even remember that he had been Ron Hubbard)--would David Miscavige validate his assertion that he was Ron Hubbard? Well, I seriously doubt it. And besides, even if he is back and knows he was Ron in his last life I seriously doubt he would want to step back into corporate Scientology with the sorry shape it now is in. I hope all is going well for you and everyone on this board.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
yes, i loved this process at first. but while on the course after days (at least not years like in $cn.) i got bored with it. my masters were a male ot8 and a female psychologist. i started to protest and claim i was "over run" on the process. this is exactly why i thought the combination of the two of them was perfect. the last process on the course is the ultimate process and if all the other steps are "in" it really blows you out of your gourd. some of the people on the course with me got very little out of it, but i guess i was pretty well heeled in shifting my mental functions and perceptions around. in my book it was the best thing since sliced bread. i went on to take the masters course because i really wanted to deliver this to others. that turned out to be a ten thousand dollar nightmare. perhaps harry and avra have a perfect set up, he wanders in to speak to the crowd in dirty untied sneakers, and avra plays "bad cop" making sure the money is rolling in etc. and yes money flows uplines. ten percent which isnt too outrageous. the main rip off i saw occrring were the extreme prices for advertising in their magazines after you had taken the masters course. these ads didnt really seem to bring in any business. i had a real beef with not being able to give avatar as a gift, i was lead to believe before i took masters that i could do that, only to find you have to sign bonds promising you would never do that. a guy named eldron took them on it court and was eventually run out of the country, but they really went after him. i think we have him to thank for making the materials free. somewhere in the mass of the googles there is a write up i did for him detailing my f'ed up masters course experience. ironically enough this run in i have had of being accused of being a leak on the indy scientologist page is run by a woman named karry campbell. the fb photo also looks exactly like the same karry campbell who was a supervisor on the masters course. i was denied my masters course certification because avra (harry's wife) took an aversion to me. so, i have asked this karry campbell is she is the same woman who literally RAN away from me at the end of the avatar course when i asked her why i would not be certed. unfortunately as with most of this stuff, no matter how good it is it gets hijacked and spoiled. so here i am 20 years later trying to get some fb indie page lady to answer one question. lol. bloody hell, why didnt i just spend my time and energy making more, flipping houses or some other worthwhile endeavour? lol.
yes, spiritual discipline is kinda odd in and of itself. now that i dont really practise anything anymore my new philosophy is just keep an eye on how you get. a line from a book called blue hiways that has left me inspired for a few years now.

ps. the ultimate process is like the biggest "feel it" ever. you expand your space to achieve larger and larger feel it's... and once you have expanded all the way out to encompass all that is, the final step is to expand beyond that. so if their is an exterior state, this was it for me. i staggered out of the room in a complete state of bliss.
on the downside? well, i used to sit on my couch and do this process at night after i got my girls to sleep, gradually expanding out starting with my immediate environment. so, i was doing that one night and had only expanded as far as the park across the street... (this is eyes closed, i kid you not) i saw a black car, i remember thinking it looked like a mercedes. it had pulled to the curb across the street by the park. my attention hung up there and i didnt continue to expand my space as the process calls for because this car had caught my attention. then i heard a noise, so i dont think i was so deep in the meditative state anymore, and i saw someone dragged from the back seat of the car and thrown onto a rock at the entrance to the park, then like a jolt i heard popping sounds, but also i cant explain the feeling i got. painful, jolting, and grief stricken.
i snapped out of it, rushed to the door to look out and see a car speeding away. i dialed 9-11. the police came and a man lay dead on that rock.

anyway a yucky story. but sometimes those feel it processes go to far. i really backed away from them after that. as an empath a good day is when i don't bother feeling others. i mean even if it is my own imagination, i am probably better off just trying to keep up with myself.

i bet i am gonna delete this post, thank you emma for giving us 24 hours to do that:

great post :yes:
 

R2-45

Silver Meritorious Patron
FYI:

This will clear up any misunderstanding.

Ron has already come back as a spirit, disguised himself as "single malt," disseminated himself via bottles, and now is rapidly taking over the mind of a rather insignificant dwarf trapped on a backwater prison/slum planet of this sector of the universe.

ML,

R2-45
 
If you go to Tony's last OT8 blog - Hubbard is coming back as a politician. Clipped from Tony's post:

I will soon leave this world only to return and complete my mission with another identity. Although I long to stretch my arms back in repose on some distant star in some distant galaxy, it appears that, that is one dream that will have to wait…I will return not as a religious leader but a political one. That happens to be the requisite beingness for the task at hand. I will not be known to most of you, my activities misunderstood by many, yet along with your constant effort in the theta band I will effectively postpone and then halt a series of events designed to make happy slaves of us all. So there you have it …. The secret that I have kept close to my chest all these years. Now you too are part of this secret and I no longer have to shoulder the burden alone or live with the possibility of body death before all the data could be released.

You should really read the whole post - it seems ol' Ron is in a death battle with the Marcabians and that Jesus is a PR-man for them, spreading lies of peace and love but intent on enslaving mankind. Really!! See the link below.

Mimsey

http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/24/up...ot-8-but-was-its-first-version-really-a-hoax/

dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
From a higher point of view 'human-identities' are as common, numerous, and basically insignificant as are the blades of grass on any given lawn, to man.

mojo

As my neighbor has approximately three blades of grass in his entire yard, and as he is a higher point of view than those blades of grass, I would venture that abundance has something to do with caring. The more you care, the more you'll nurture, thus bringing about an abundance.

Having large numbers of something doesn't necessarily mean that a single sample becomes irrelevant or insignificant by comparison.

Whatever importance there is simply exists because a conscious being decides it is important or valued.

Masses of beings or objects or identities are only valued or important because someone decides they are.

You are important to me because I'm aware of your existence, whereas billions of others are only theoretically important in an abstract way because I'm not aware of them as individuals.

Damn, I got all serious. I was just going to make a joke about my neighbor's lack of grass and ... then right in the middle of the sentence ... everything changed.

Forgive me, for I have sinned.

Now upstairs to watch SYTYCD--a proper penance for my many sins.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
You know the whole OT8 thing says he will come back as a politician, and infers most won't recognize him.
So, you got all these OT8's out there with a smirk on their face if the question ever comes up as to why he hasn't shown up at some org or another.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I did get confirmation that Ron DID come back and it came from a trusted source.

There is video of him as well; see the very beginning of THIS video where he's doing advanced research on the CCH processes:


[video=youtube;ZklbxpbIy4M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZklbxpbIy4M&list=PLa_0rl-N6O8gXdABFBOXHAw8N_egQGL1H&index=6[/video]

No, I can't reveal the name of the trusted source but his initials were H.H.
 

R2-45

Silver Meritorious Patron
I did get confirmation that Ron DID come back and it came from a trusted source.

There is video of him as well; see the very beginning of THIS video where he's doing advanced research on the CCH processes:


[video=youtube;ZklbxpbIy4M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZklbxpbIy4M&list=PLa_0rl-N6O8gXdABFBOXHAw8N_egQGL1H&index=6[/video]

No, I can't reveal the name of the trusted source but his initials were H.H.



Sssshhhhhh...


Somebody might be listening...
 
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