L Ron Hubbard orders R2-45 on 12 people

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Jerry MacDonbald

23. Jerry McDonald was widely rumored to have been a former mercenary and a paid assassin in Europe. He was known throughout the Sea Org for taking care of difficult problems. If someone was giving a problem in some area Jerry McDonald would just appear there. Because of his reputation as having been an assassin, if he came on the scene, people would fear for their lives. They believed that he was working totally for Scientology and that he would do anything for Hubbard. Additionally, he was also the kind of guy who would have people over to his house every now and then and would get out his automatic weapons, clean them and put them together in front of people. In this way, he would let people know that he was really conversant with his craft. He carried a 9 mm pistol on him all the time and he was always talking about arms sales and deals that he was doing. As things turned out, he and I were not required to carry out the instructions to kill that we had received. However, if the orders had not been canceled I have no doubt that he could have performed the task.


I knew Jerry well. He came on board the Royal Scotsman at the time of the Liability Cruise. As part of our upgrading every crew member had to have a full Jo'burg.

Jerry was the only person I have ever had to run a "reverse" Jo'burg on.
Instead of asking "Have you ever stolen anything?" The question became "Have you ever failed to steal something?" There was some real charge on these questions. It took several hours to complete it.


Jerry was a thief, smuggler and overall villian. He was NOT a killer. He had killed no one up to the point he left the ship and I seriously doubt he did afterwards. Jerry was a perceived "hard man". However, there were some of us on the ship who were quite capable of "correcting" any physical "misunderstandings" that could erupt. Jerry was a friendly guy to be around. If he accepted you as a friend then he was 100% behind you.

Jerry was Diane MacDonald's estranged husband. They had a son, Larry. Jerry came on board after leaving Genoa at some haste (small problem with smuggling cigarettes - and a customs boat). Jerry used to keep a second passport and $500 in cash in a plastic bag taped to his back. He assisted in the engine room. (You can read some of the account on the thread The Liability Cruise).

After we put the ship into dry dock I went to the UK to help set up the AO. Jerry went to LA where he was involved with Bill Robertson and the MTB Excalabur. Jerry sent me a telex asking me to come and join him as he was about to embark on some "interesting" operations. I declined.

Not long after this Jerry died in a car accident.

I trust this clarifies matters.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
23. Jerry McDonald was widely rumored to have been a former mercenary and a paid assassin in Europe. He was known throughout the Sea Org for taking care of difficult problems. If someone was giving a problem in some area Jerry McDonald would just appear there. Because of his reputation as having been an assassin, if he came on the scene, people would fear for their lives. They believed that he was working totally for Scientology and that he would do anything for Hubbard. Additionally, he was also the kind of guy who would have people over to his house every now and then and would get out his automatic weapons, clean them and put them together in front of people. In this way, he would let people know that he was really conversant with his craft. He carried a 9 mm pistol on him all the time and he was always talking about arms sales and deals that he was doing. As things turned out, he and I were not required to carry out the instructions to kill that we had received. However, if the orders had not been canceled I have no doubt that he could have performed the task.


I knew Jerry well. He came on board the Royal Scotsman at the time of the Liability Cruise. As part of our upgrading every crew member had to have a full Jo'burg.

Jerry was the only person I have ever had to run a "reverse" Jo'burg on.
Instead of asking "Have you ever stolen anything?" The question became "Have you ever failed to steal something?" There was some real charge on these questions. It took several hours to complete it.


Jerry was a thief, smuggler and overall villian. He was NOT a killer. He had killed no one up to the point he left the ship and I seriously doubt he did afterwards. Jerry was a perceived "hard man". However, there were some of us on the ship who were quite capable of "correcting" any physical "misunderstandings" that could erupt. Jerry was a friendly guy to be around. If he accepted you as a friend then he was 100% behind you.

Jerry was Diane MacDonald's estranged husband. They had a son, Larry. Jerry came on board after leaving Genoa at some haste (small problem with smuggling cigarettes - and a customs boat). Jerry used to keep a second passport and $500 in cash in a plastic bag taped to his back. He assisted in the engine room. (You can read some of the account on the thread The Liability Cruise).

After we put the ship into dry dock I went to the UK to help set up the AO. Jerry went to LA where he was involved with Bill Robertson and the MTB Excalabur. Jerry sent me a telex asking me to come and join him as he was about to embark on some "interesting" operations. I declined.

Not long after this Jerry died in a car accident.

I trust this clarifies matters.

Thank you. I like it when things get cleared up by people who have first hand knowledge. Hubbard ordering this reverse Jo-burg means he was training CofS professional criminals to do his dirty work for him.

Do you have a Scan of the complete Jo-burg by the way ?
 

AnonKat

Crusader
OK,

I'm late to this thread.

Those are the real orders. I saw them while on staff in London. Dart is correct, it was relative to the CC materials. It was Goodwin who lifted them, and made them available to the others who then circulated them.

This I know, because Frank Manley, one who is listed on the order had for a time been on London staff, before then becoming a prominent FSM of mine. Frank in fact had phoned me to offer the material.

Subsequently, he along with others of the group who were selling/making the CC materials available were people I dealt with while undercover working with B1. (I in fact did recover some CC materials from them)

Mary Ann Taylor, also named in the order, was also an FSM of mine, and she married Frank Manley some time later in '68 or in '69.

And I well remember the reaction amongst the staff and folks in good standing in the London org area to the explicit nature of the "Fair Game Order" and the further orders of applying destructive reverse processing and use of R2-45.

It was rather shocking, and folks were rather seriously knocked into toeing the line.
RogerB

Re-enforcement like that means L Ron Hubbard was dead-serious about that order. I wish to learn more.

But thank you so much for adding another piece to the puzzle.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thank you. I like it when things get cleared up by people who have first hand knowledge. Hubbard ordering this reverse Jo-burg means he was training CofS professional criminals to do his dirty work for him.

Huh? A reverse Joburg as Dart describes it is perfectly standard "white" Scientology, and not designed to be harmful at all.

A confessional should be done in respect to the individual's moral code. It picks up times the person violated his *own* moral codes, not someone else's. It's times when he feels "uh-oh" at something he has done. So, most people would think it the right thing to do not to steal a wallet left out in the open with no-one watching, and would feel bad about themselves if they took it. A hardened thief would think it the right thing to do to steal the wallet, and would feel bad about himself if he omitted stealing it when he could have done so with little risk — feeling bad for real, not as a joke.

Paul
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Correct, Paul. I've done a few of these too. It's very interesting when the guy suddenly comes through the moral-code switch point too. Most of the villains I've audited in this wise seem to have had a major switch somewhere along the line.
 

Carmel

Crusader
So is this then the "reverse processing" LRH was referring to in that issue?

If so, it's quite different to what has also been labelled as reverse auditing.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Huh? A reverse Joburg as Dart describes it is perfectly standard "white" Scientology, and not designed to be harmful at all.

A confessional should be done in respect to the individual's moral code. It picks up times the person violated his *own* moral codes, not someone else's. It's times when he feels "uh-oh" at something he has done. So, most people would think it the right thing to do not to steal a wallet left out in the open with no-one watching, and would feel bad about themselves if they took it. A hardened thief would think it the right thing to do to steal the wallet, and would feel bad about himself if he omitted stealing it when he could have done so with little risk — feeling bad for real, not as a joke.

Paul
Boggles the mind! - I have to say that I can't even get into the mindset.. It's an intellectual wrestle to understand..

But Scientology damn well doesn't correct this at all! - If anything, I observed people who weren't 'criminals' to begin with, become capable of ignoring morals and commiting atrocities.

:yes:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
So is this then the "reverse processing" LRH was referring to in that issue?

If so, it's quite different to what has also been labelled as reverse auditing.
No, Dart called it "reverse" J'burg but that wasn't what it was called. It was a case of finding out the PC's moral code and tailoring the Q's as to what was an overt per that code.

As an example, there are people around who would consider it an overt NOT to take a stray sheep back to their family, regardless of whose sheep it actually was.

The question would have to be something like, "Did you ever fail to snatch a loose sheep that wasn't nailed down?" LOL

It's not reverse auditing, it's auditing the PC in front of you (who has a different/reverse moral code).

When LRH said "reverse audit" in that Issue, he meant "plow them in!"
 

Carmel

Crusader
No, Dart called it "reverse" J'burg but that wasn't what it was called. It was a case of finding out the PC's moral code and tailoring the Q's as to what was an overt per that code.

As an example, there are people around who would consider it an overt NOT to take a stray sheep back to their family, regardless of who's sheep it actually was.

The question would have to be something like, "Did you ever fail to snatch a loose sheep that wasn't nailed down?" LOL

It's not reverse auditing, it's auditing the PC in front of you (who has a different/reverse moral code).
Yeah, Panda......I'm aware of tailoring confess questions to one's moral code (it was the only way confessionals were *supposed* to be done).

I'd never heard of that being called "reverse auditing" though, and wondered why Dart mentioned that here on *this* thread to clarify matters, if not to define what may have been considered "reverse auditing" back then.
 

RogerB

Crusader
So is this then the "reverse processing" LRH was referring to in that issue?

If so, it's quite different to what has also been labelled as reverse auditing.

No. LRH used the term "they are to be run on reverse processes." That is reverse, destructive, "black Scn/black Dn" processing which is well noted in all the tech of the 1950's, and known to cave a person in.

The "reverse Joberg" Dart speaks of is as Paul and Pander state, run with questions reversed to the way run for regular folks with a non-criminal moral code. It is actually explained in the tech that for a criminal member of a band of thieves, it would be an overt for a member to not to steal . . . he'd actually feel bad and have a W/H from his buddies. Like a Mafia member going straight! Big Overt!

If my memory serves, there is actually a definition of "Black Diantetics" in the Tech Dictionary.

R
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
At least nobody got killed but it's INTENTION that counts in this case , even Scientologists know that all too well

We don't know that. We can't say one way or another. Once in a while, one might stumble onto troubling information. This one, for example:

Unbeknownst to Hubbard [ORLY?], one of their goals was leaving Scientology and setting up a similar organization called the Institute of Mental Health. They set up headquarters in Johannesburg, and brought in a large number of Scientologists with them, naturally infuriating the other Scientologists. Kennedy died shortly thereafter in a shooting accident. "It is said he shot himself accidentally while cleaning his revolver" stated the Daily Mail on July 14, 1968, "but an open verdict was returned by the coroner."

The Scandal of Scientology // The Suppressives

The Scandal of Scientology was authored by Paulette Cooper. And what do you know, Pauletter Cooper had her own "troubling event":

When Joy opened the door, he unwrapped the "flowers" — which were just a few twigs on top to hide a gun. He put the gun at her head, cocked the trigger, and the gun was either empty or misfired. He then began choking her, but she managed to break away and start screaming so he fled.

Paulette Cooper's Harassment Diary - Part 3: The Gun Incident

Paulette Cooper had received a call from an anonymous caller: "We're gonna give you the .44 treatment" [An author vs. Scientology church | San Francisco Chronicle (California) | 1 May 1978]

Hubbard incorporated "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause" in his Scientology Code of Honor.

Anyone doubt that Scientology was quite a "just cause" in Hubbard's mind?
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yikes

Every time I think I've heard it all regarding scientology and hubbard's paranoia and delusions, up pops another dark tale! :no:

Some one needs to organize all of this and put it in a book! :yes:

I know that any scientologist is so programmed, so indoctrinated and so delusional (matching hubbard's same) that they are capable of anything. Once upon a time, 35 years ago or so, I was quite proud to steal some one's mail for the then 'guardians office'. I was so proud and pleased to have covertly accomplished this task. This was the day I was routed off staff! I was asked two minutes later to do some "operative actions for the 'g.o.'. :unsure:

One thought continues to bother me: if we, as human beings, are to ever stop the madness and criminality of scientology then where do we draw the line? Dispose of all of the 'tech'? Some of it? The parts that seem to work? Just hubbard's (and miscarige's) policies? Just the property and documents and records, declaring them all psychologically dangerous? I'm lost, without an answer. An answer to this would serve to unify many groups and individuals to a common end which would more efficiently utilize our resources. :confused2:
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
...One thought continues to bother me: if we, as human beings, are to ever stop the madness and criminality of scientology then where do we draw the line? Dispose of all of the 'tech'? Some of it? The parts that seem to work? Just hubbard's (and miscarige's) policies? Just the property and documents and records, declaring them all psychologically dangerous? I'm lost, without an answer. An answer to this would serve to unify many groups and individuals to a common end which would more efficiently utilize our resources. :confused2:
I took a run at this question on OCMB:

Let us imagine Scientology as software for the mind. Here is how I would reconfigure Scientology software if I wanted to practice the Tech outside of CoS. We begin by noting that Scientology is modular because it was written and built over time by LRH and his Compilers and Tech people. Thus, we take a structuralist approach.

It is obvious that the Tech can be decoupled from CoS. This happened a long time ago when Freezoners executed the following commands:

The Tech --> Disable and uninstall CoS
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall IAS

Once we have decoupled the Tech from CoS, we can proceed to the main structural reconfiguration of the Tech:

The Tech --> Disable and uninstall KSW doctrine
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall PTS/SP doctrine
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall Homo Novis and Genocide doctrines
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall hard pressure sales/crush regging
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall weekly sales statistics
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall OSA
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall RTC
The Tech --> Disable and uninstall COB

Disabling these eight modules opens up incredible processing space and speed.

There is no reason for Scientology processing to be linked to these arbitrary firewalls and junk code that ultimately serve only LRH's and DM's personal interests. These modules are organizational and not spiritual in nature. Empirical observation has consistently proven that these modules cause Scientology processing to repeatedly crash.

*****
LRH did many horrendous things. Since I cannot overwrite the Truth, I take the hit on LRH's bio and admit that his legacy is trashed and move on:

The Tech --> Enable telling the truth about LRH

There is zero need to defend LRH. If anyone asks, Scientologists can readily admit that LRH was a dysfunctional genius. They cannot be any more honest about LRH than this.

*****

The Tech --> Enable the sharing of one's case with other Scientologists

The Tech --> Enable the mixing of practices

ref: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?highlight=disable+uninstall&t=32242

/////
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

Hi JSwift,
While you are here and since you seem to have some kind of open with Marty, can you email and ask him what he thinks about the reference posted in the OP? LRH wrote it and it's plain as day what it means.

Thanks
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Hi JSwift,
While you are here and since you seem to have some kind of open with Marty, can you email and ask him what he thinks about the reference posted in the OP? LRH wrote it and it's plain as day what it means.

Thanks

Oh, and while you're at it, can you ask him whether he knows of any murder plots? Either non-scientologists or Sea Org members (I assume they were easier to 'disappear')

Zinj
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
...and...

Hi JSwift,
While you are here and since you seem to have some kind of open with Marty, can you email and ask him what he thinks about the reference posted in the OP? LRH wrote it and it's plain as day what it means. Thanks

Oh, and while you're at it, can you ask him whether he knows of any murder plots? Either non-scientologists or Sea Org members (I assume they were easier to 'disappear') Zinj

Also, while you're at it, can you ask him if he knows about any known operations and operatives seeking to "destroy" a dissenter that led to their suicide? Hubbard's gestapo almost accomplished this with Paulette Cooper, as was one of the plans by the noble humanitarian hubbard to "handle" her. That was his policy: take any measure to destroy anyone who was out to destroy him and his evil, greedy cult. There must have been casualties. Just a o's name, the target's name, the place and the date would do. Just one. :yes:
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
R2-45.
Murder plots.
Operation Freak Out.

Gosh. I guess I missed all of that in my 5+ year career and 8,800+ posts at xenu.net.

I am certainly glad I have you fellows to advise me about what I need to ask when I interrogate Marty.

Thanks.

I'll get back to you on this.


/////
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hubbard was not so "dysfunctional." He succeeded in carrying out his long range plan. HE SUCCEEDED. The confusion arises when his publicized goal is mistaken for his "real goal."
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
Hubbard was not so "dysfunctional." He succeeded in carrying out his long range plan. HE SUCCEEDED. The confusion arises when his publicized goal is mistaken for his "real goal."
Veda, I am intrigued. Could you please elaborate on Hubbard's real goal versus his publicized goal?
 
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