L. RON HUBBARD THE MAN THAT I KNEW

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dennis' description of LRH "confronting" rather than "experiencing" other people and even his own case is very telling.

This supports my recent contention that Ron was on the "left-hand path". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Hand_Path

When you read his admissions this is perfectly clear.

Dennis' description of Ron's attitude to others and his own case is a perfect description of someone who is dedicated to the left hand way.

Experiencing other people and own case is a right-hand activity so Ron had trouble doing this.

If he "confronted" opposing postulates in Goals research rather than experiencing them, it was inevitable that his paranoia would intensify

Sad.

There a few who can fully experience the darkside of their case.

Scio Ethics - Tech - and Admin, auditor training and auditing is designed to be done by confonters - not experiencers.

The most ommited Technology in Scio is the experiencing technology.

Willing to fully effect, permeate and be the effect of a holographically projected incident and being able to fully duplicate are frowned upon - yet these are extremely high levels of ability.

One can say that this is the ability to truly love others and self - for you are able to be truly at one with.

Interesting that Dennis says many thought Ron was a great auditor and some thought he was a bad auditor. Anybody got any ideas why that would be?

When he audited me - I experienced my whole case pushing forward almost instantly. I had to struggle to push it out of the road to answer the questions he asked me.......my itsa-maker line was overwhelmed by this.

It wasn't because he was LRH - it was the size and power of his comm cycle - there was so much charge there on me, from previous poor auditing - from auditors who could not let the charge run.

I cleaned up several of LRHs pc's over the years - most were upset that he didn't handle their whole case - yet in most cases the sessions he gave were just quick repair actions - usually he took on the most failed cases - who had the most hidden standards.

The only pc that I know LRH ever audited very much was Mary-Sue - somewhat of a very rough case herself. But never really being able to run off her effects of being around LRH - my guess is she had a great deal of undelivered communications - to say the least. :)

Alan
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scio Ethics - Tech - and Admin, auditor training and auditing is designed to be done by confonters - not experiencers.

Yes. Date/Locate is perhaps the biggest example of that. It isn't that it isn't valid tech - it will do as a 'quick snip' when nothing else seems to work - or to take enough charge off to be able to look more deeply - but to say that you have fully handled something just because you D/Led it is a cop out unless the whole thing flew into view and genuinely blew on the D/L - which you can't rely on.

Nick
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes. Date/Locate is perhaps the biggest example of that. It isn't that it isn't valid tech - it will do as a 'quick snip' when nothing else seems to work - or to take enough charge off to be able to look more deeply - but to say that you have fully handled something just because you D/Led it is a cop out unless the whole thing flew into view and genuinely blew on the D/L - which you can't rely on.

Nick

All Scio Correction Lists are done that way - they are designed to move the charged area out of the way - not to actually fully handle anything.

Running fully and experiencing fully requires a whole different Grade Chart. :thumbsup:

Alan
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
I only personally met two old-timers who had been audited by Ron. They were in terrible, bogged case-state but had a sort of inflated self-importance because Ron had audited them.

Hey, he only audited me a few times in 1948, then someone else took over and then I left, dropped the body. Once I told a Scientologist that story and he said, "Oh, you're one of those." His wife was also a past lifer. Most past lifers I meet from my era are pretty cool people.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was making a general suggestion that may (or may not) apply in some instances.

In the case of Dennis, he may have considered himself a comparable terminal to Hubbard in which case I'd expect him to get better results. Who can get results from an auditor who they consider to be God? :)
In such an instance the PC may postiviely be looking for evaluations, because God knows everything, Hubbard can probably see the facsimiles I can't, etc.

CHeers

tanstaafl

Yes, I also expect such a god-like auditor must have automatically missed some people's witholds.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
TROM is not the reduction of mind, it's the RESOLUTION of mind. Perhaps a quibble. I see it as a big difference.
 
Very helpful article. I wonder if the original recording(s) are somehow available? I don't have current contact information for Ant Philips, so if anyone can ask.

You should find the Dennis Stephens cassette at:
http://www.freezoneearth.org
(about half way down, I think).
(It is taking time to download, here, with my slow connection )

The original was on a cassette tape (both sides, here track 1 and 2). Dennis uses the pause button on the recorder which explains a noise between some words. At a later date I got someone to transfer it to a CD. and this was sent to and distributed by someone on the TROM list ( http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/admin/trom ). The transcript must have come from that. Unfortunately I do not know of any one else who was so close to Ron in those days who could comment on it. It would certainly be nice to get other viewpoints.
The bit about confronting and experiencing is interesting. At the time I got the cassette tape it did not make any sense to me :) I suppose I have got a bit more mellow, so I am getting an inkling of light on the subject.

The transcript published at the beginning of this thread is not good, as you will find out, but seems to convey the essence of what Dennis said.

All best wishes,

Ant
 

GoButtonIsBlowButton

Patron with Honors
Couple of long-withheld questions for the techies...

This entire line indicates there are some major techies here. Questions for C/S's, including how you handled it:

How often did you have a pc who knew Ron in another life?
How often did you have a pc who was Hitler/Stalin/Lincoln/etc. (and stuck to it -- not the victim of the important person)?
How often did you have a pc who was running clearly imaginary stuff (e.g. cartoons -- I had a pc who ran into Donald Duck while running something in Vietnam, and was taken off his case, so never found out the handling)?

I guess my follow-up question, if anyone answers, is how many 25 year olds are there, esp. at Int and Flag, who are smoking Kools these days? Must be amusing for the C/S's. And how any SO member can afford to smoke.
 
Last edited:

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
LRH in 1974

I met LRH and saw him quite a few times in 1974 on the Apollo. I had a few experiences of his personal size, magnetism, influence, space, whatever you want to call it, beingness was immense and percieveable. You sensed him before you saw the body sometimes. One time late at night I was at the aft well deck rail taking a break, and I felt someone walk up next to me. I looked over and there was no one there. Then I caught a movement up high, two decks up, at the rear corner of the Promenade deck rail. It was him. He had the big binoculars out, and was looking at stars. I saw a satelite approaching and called out the location to him, and he looked at it with the binoculars. He was a big person, and I think the description of him in the transcript is probably acurate. Mike Henderson
 

marty

Patron with Honors
How often did you have a pc who knew Ron in another life?
How often did you have a pc who was Hitler/Stalin/Lincoln/etc. (and stuck to it -- not the victim of the important person)?
How often did you have a pc who was running clearly imaginary stuff (e.g. cartoons -- I had a pc who ran into Donald Duck while running something in Vietnam, and was taken off his case, so never found out the handling)?.

This kind of pc is common, all too common. Especially the pc who is a past life pc or went clear past life. A sort of status goes along with it.

When a pc originates past life clear it must be dealt with by setting the pc up and then delivering the CCRD.
A some what bothersome cycle as it can be time consuming and ultimately messy if found not to be clear yet they continue to assert it.

As for the other type you mention, the over whelmed type its not really a problem. The important thing is to run the right gradient processes that move the tone arm. The C/S and auditor only need to get charge of the case. The significance the pc attaches to it is not important, he will eventually sort himself out and get into valence.

It is only the movement of the tone arm that will tell you this pc is assising charge and unburdening his case.
That the pc is running whole track incidents and demonstrating tremendous recall and having wonderfull wins does NOT mean nescessarily he is getting charge of his case. It is only the tone arm motion that can be depended on in this regard.

It is in my oppinion a risky business to not use an emeter and run the case solely on what the pc seems to be winning on. Because the delusional case can have very good wins but in actual fact not be getting better.

Some good practitioners of high integrity such as AW and MG perhaps can out of hard won experience direct a pcs attention such that charge is unburdened and seen to be so solely by observing indicators. Such quality practitioners/auditors though are not the norm and the only safe way to see charge blowing is with the tone arm.

The overwhelmed case can often believe they are in very good condition and will in running these far fetched incidents and identities they believe they were have these really fantastic blow out wins. These pcs want to move up the bridge fast because they believe they are doing really well and these lower bridge actions are too easy and they should be getting onto their OT levels because they are running such OT stuff like blowing up planets and being JC or whatever.

In the earlier days of Scientology many such pcs did slip through and move onto higher levels without doing their lower bridge. Often just by going to the examiner and attesting to Natural Clear or keyed out OT or whatever they thought they were. A lot of this went on in the seventies.

Buying into what the pc says about their case state is a trap especially if you then let them go onto higher levels. But many techies have done this over the years for one reason or another. Perhaps the orgs were worried about invalidating them or worried they would stop paying or wanted to sell them higher levels or were simply stupid, who knows but such pcs some how got through and onto levels they should not have been on. Probably this is what is meant by LRH when he says some pc's move up the bridge but arent moving up the bridge.

These pcs always eventually fall on their head and become a great deal of trouble. Because even they eventually realise they are not any better than when they started out except now a whole lot poorer and dreams of walking on water shattered.

The rule is get tone arm action and when your getting it dont move on to something else until you have flattened it off. The significance of what the pc says isnt important except if its BIs. TA action is important no matter what the pc says and it is the getting of TA action that will eventually get the pc out of his dub in situation.

The dub in pc will need the most auditing at the lowest levels but will allways be the one who thinks and sometimes asserts he needs the least and should be on the higher levels.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Scientology is preloaded with vast amounts of significance, and Tone Arm motion just means something is changing. This can be worthwhile change or treading water change that, ultimately, leads nowhere. In Scientology, e-meter worship includes Tone Arm worship, and a floating Tone Arm to a Scientologist is like Mother Mary to a devout Catholic.

The most liberating thing a Scientologist can do is step out of the Scientology paradigm and cease being a Scientologist. As long as one is still IN Scientology, even mentally, one is in a trap. A mind-trap carefully designed over many years, consisting of a mixture of deception and truth, brainwashing and enlightenment, at just the right ratio to make a sticky goo, a goo in the shape of L. Ron Hubbard, reincarnated Buddha and savior of the galaxy, a goo that = Infinite Survival! and Infinite Pleasure.

Around 1979, Hubbard decided to promote the idea that there were lots and lots of "Clears," and that these Clears needed to exit the Missions - which he had already begun, quietly then, to loot - and having exited the Missions, which were "holding on to Clears," go "up lines" (preferably 'Flag') and spend their money there. It was a money grab, plain and simple, and not only Missions, but public, were sacrificed along the way. Why? Because Hubbard knew that his time was running out, and he wanted the money NOW, under his control, to do with as he pleased, mainly to build monuments to himself, which was the idea in the first place, going back to 1938.

If 300 people were packed into a room and 'The Story of Scientology' was played for them, it was likely that at least 10 would begin to wonder if they'd received Dianetic counseling, by Ron, in 1947, and gone Clear then. These were usually sent "up lines" to sort it out (and spend their money) there.

Scientology is called mind f--k for a reason. And it's not hyperbole to call it that. It's called a trap, and it's called that for a reason too. And best of all, it was designed not to be completely known or completely understood.

The FBI search warrants of 1977 might never have been served, and those revealing Hubbard writings, which well-meaning counseling tech people still avoid examining (and, granted, some of it's hard to find in complete form), might never have been available for examination and analysis. And these writings are relevant even to the carefully-taped-path walking Scientology Bridge devotee, as they're applied, not only on outsiders, but turned inward, and applied on Scientologists.

Hubbard, on a whim, might not have concocted his "Russian Textbook on Psycho-politics," in which he revealed so much - inadvertently. But he did, and it's there to show the grand plan of what became the Scientology operation, a grand plan that Hubbard carefully implemented, once he "got serious" in the 1960s

Gerry Armstrong might not have decided that the world needed to know the truth about Hubbard's 'Biography', and might not have done what he could to make the truth known, and we wouldn't have the 'Affirmations' (although there's more than is currently published), or other items, such as the 'Skipper letter' of August 1938.

Other things might not have happened too, from the interviews done in the 1980s, up to this Message Board, where information continues to come out. And, yes, the Internet might not have happened, or not for a decade to two later. Hubbard almost got away with it.

Scientology almost "worked."

Almost.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=75265&postcount=15

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=37634&postcount=2

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=61047&postcount=19
 
Last edited:

GoButtonIsBlowButton

Patron with Honors
Marty, nice response....

There's so much good to be found in general processing routines, without all the palace intrigue, space opera, and nutty Stalinist management....

I've often thought that a Scio-lite, with ruds, objectives, lots of straightwire, and maybe some grades, could be marketed as therapy not unlike a psychic tune-up. Forget the OT levels, Clear, etc. and just go to feeling calmer and more focused and happier and following the Golden Rule. Come in to your corner office periodically for a tune-up (like Catholic confessional), pay as you go. What a silly concept. Starbucks for the soul.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
In the end, it's been the internet that's spelled the death-knell of Scientology and, even lacking the earlier revelations, would have done so.

By design, Scientology was intended to be insulated from 'non-Scientology' (wog world) and within, to be invisible through such doctrines as 'Verbal Tech', which prevent the comparing of notes.

But, once even small pieces of Scientology are visible, the inherent contradictions become obvious; even in the publicly available 'works'.

Like a sweater; once you start pulling on the loose thread the whole thing begins falling apart.

Had Scientology not declared war on Wogdom, it's possible that it would be better able to hide under its rock. But, it had to do so, because Scientology is a *movement* and it's only the existence of 'enemies' of Mankind (read, Scientology) that justifies the kind of draconian totalitarianism *within* the 'Church' and allows the enforcement of 'heavy ethics' that prevents free discussion of Scientology *within* Scientology.

Scientology is what it had to be; by design. Collapsing.

Zinj
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're talking about the Church, apparently. The application of scientology technology hasn't collapsed, nor does it come apart due to loose threads. There are monster problems that I see with it, but the whole doesn't fall apart, just the monster problems. The core "model session" hasn't collapsed, nor do I see any reason why it should or would.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Anything can be turned into a cult, whether it be riding bikes or cultivating roses - it all depends on the mind set of the guy when he gets into the subject. No doubt that Scio did encourage that mindset in its followers, yet only those who were already set up that way went that way. Most people - where I was - didn't.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
The rule is get tone arm action and when your getting it dont move on to something else until you have flattened it off. The significance of what the pc says isnt important except if its BIs. TA action is important no matter what the pc says and it is the getting of TA action that will eventually get the pc out of his dub in situation.

The dub in pc will need the most auditing at the lowest levels but will allways be the one who thinks and sometimes asserts he needs the least and should be on the higher levels.

The problem with most Scio cases is they have almost no charge off their case.

You do not need a meter to observe charge dissipating - it is obvious - the mood level of the pc will move up and down - as the charge erases - the mood level will trend up - until there are so many good indicators.

In my almost 50 years of processing people - I have yet to find any set levels of case - set levels of competency in specific areas, yes - but no set levels across the board of upper levels.

In some areas one has almost unlimited space - time - energy - and the ability to manifest in - in other areas one is a dot with all their space - time - energy - and the ability to manifest in - is collapsed in on itself.

It takes very little to undo the dependence of the meter - or the need for someone telling the pc what they should run next. Just take away their meters - teach them what good indicators and bad indicators are.

Scio's and Ex-Scio's are something else as they have been running a false bridge and consequently have a false case.

A simple:

What has someone implied, told or convinced you needed to handle about your case?

When was that?

Where was that?

Tell me about that?

What happened?

What was the consequences of that?

If things got worse in the pc's life after that action you can ask: Was that a wrong action or item?

What have been the consequences of that?

On most Scio's and Ex-Scio's this will run for weeks - if it slows down - just mention reging - training - ethics - EDs - SO - OSA - etc. :)

Suggested buttons:

Is there any suppressed rage? Get it expressed.

Is there any suppressed fury? Get it expressed.

Behind the rage and fury are the pc's own violations of their integrity - most often these also blow to view.

Often the pc is locked in mortal combat with itself due to these unexpressed moods.......if they were on a meter the TA would be moving quiet heavily. :)

Very quickly the pc begins to get certainty on what is optimum for them - and what is not.:happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Alan
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
required reading...

Excellent post all around.

Very interesting on the goals process troubles.

Great analysis of the pre-programmed downfall of Cof$.

Should be in the LRH biography for sure! :yes:
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
On most Scio's and Ex-Scio's this will run for weeks - if it slows down - just mention reging - training - ethics - EDs - SO - OSA - etc. :)

Suggested buttons:

Is there any suppressed rage? Get it expressed.

Is there any suppressed fury? Get it expressed.

Gonna need more than a few weeks for this :p

Behind the rage and fury are the pc's own violations of their integrity - most often these also blow to view.

What's true is what's true for you. Unless of course what's true for you violates what I say should be true for you. In which case, find your MU, do as your told, stop causing trouble, see the E/O...... man, what happened to my integrity, I know I had some when I started this Scio stuff. :D

Alan, from the above I can see you've dealt with a few ex-Scios :omg:
 
Top